Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




In crazy screen news, I guess Dell's version of an 11" Yoga will have a 2560x1440 IPS screen. They also paired it with a flat, Surface-style keyboard, so probably no one should buy it!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Protocol7 posted:

Is it at all attainable to get a worthwhile ultrabook for $600? Planning on ditching my iPad and fat Asus for something thinner to replace them both.

Would prefer new or refurbished, I already know what I can get used.

Asus Zenbook UX31A has gone for ~$600 refurbished in the past. Great screen, good keyboard, it'll be an Ivy Bridge i5 with 128GB SSD and 4GB RAM. Just be double sure you're not getting a UX32A or some other model numbers, which are low end and just typical consumer crap.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Bob Morales posted:

Don't those usually come with only a 90 day warranty?

I think so. I think they've also been new for $800-900, which is a bit more of a stretch but still ok (I paid $1100 when they first came out and am happy with it still).

I also fully concur with this:

InstantInfidel posted:

The answer to any laptop question in this thread for the next week is "Wait until Haswell is widely available." The IGP gains and battery life improvements mean you're (honestly) stupid to buy anything instead of waiting a week.

especially since any ultrabook refreshes will see all these big gains (integrated GPU, puny ultrabook battery, etc).

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Doctor rear end in a top hat posted:

Isn't an SSD one of Intel's Ultrabook requirements?

HDD with a small SSD cache has been sufficient.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




FISHMANPET posted:

I think RVProfootballer was saying that HDD with SSD Cache meets Intel's requirements.

According to that Wikipedia article, the actual requirement is a minimum of 80 MB/s transfer rate.

Yeah, this is what I meant. I said "has been sufficient" because who knows if they will change that, like they did to add touchscreen requirement. I'd hope they'll eventually require a real SSD, but I don't know if that is feasible when Acer or HP wants to call some $400 junk laptop an ultrabook because it's under 5 lbs and has a 10GB cache to go along with the 5400rpm HDD. I thought the whole point was to make manufacturers go more premium, but then Intel should probably already not count the cache SSD as sufficient.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Yeah, now that there are non-poo poo ultrabooks, there are better "basically a Macbook Air but with Windows" options than a literal Macbook Air running Windows.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Samsung Ativ Book 9 Plus (great name ha) announced, 3200x1800, 12 hour battery, 1.4kg. I'm really hoping the battery life holds up; I was expecting new ultrabooks to be maybe 10 hours, given that the new Air is 12. Supposedly slightly better trackpad and keyboard than last gen Series 9, too.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Sendo posted:

That new Samsung with the dumb name seems pretty good but I bet they are going to gently caress up the price.

Well, what price should it be? It's the thing everyone has wanted, a Macbook Air with a super high res screen. It'll be at least whatever a 13" rMBP costs, yeah? Probably a bit more.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Vinlaen posted:

Anandtech posted their 2013 Macbook Air review and it looks like the HD 5000 GPU is about 16% faster than the HD 4000 which isn't bad.

My only complaint with the Macbook Airs (and probably other laptops?) is that even when playing "small" games like DOTA or Civilization 5, the fan will gets very, very loud and the laptop gets quite hot on the bottom.

When I'm not playing a game, the fan doesn't even turn on though which is nice.

Yeah, the performance gain isn't bad, especially since it comes with so much better battery life. I'm a little worried that the super high resolution screens that are getting put on nice-looking ultrabooks are going to cause problems, though, since they'll likely be paired with the HD4400 (as far as I know).

Does anyone have a good idea how the HD5000 vs. 5100 vs. 5200 shakes out? As far as I can tell, HD5000 and 5100 are both available with ULV cpus, but the HD5100 itself is like double the power draw? Then the HD5200 only comes with mobile quad-core, non-ULV chips, and is again double the power draw of the 5100? I remember reading that the 13" rMBP had some performance issues. Is the 3200x1800 screen in the new Samsung laptop, with a Core i5-4200U and HD4400, really going to avoid those kinds of problems? I'd rather have only like 8 hours battery life, if it means the thing actually runs significantly better.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Naffer posted:

Anandtech has an interesting discussion: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7072/...4000-vs-hd-4400

The real answer is that the sum of the power used by the chip won't exceed the TDP rating. Therefore, the real difference between the 5000 and the 5100 isn't that the GPUs are different, just that the 5100 is allowed the power headroom to actually run at higher frequencies. The above linked article talks about how in the low-power chips like the one in the MacBook air, load on the GPU can force the CPU to downclock and vice versa. In their benchmarks the 5000 in the air doesn't really drastically outperform the 4400, which you might expect it to given that it's twice the GPU on paper.

Cool, this is very helpful. Thank you!

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




shrughes posted:

An ASUS UX21A perhaps. I'm not sure this model actually existed or if it was just a prank that ASUS played on reviewers.

I know the sandy bridge UX21E exists, but yeah I don't know if the ivy bridge refresh ever actually got released.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Cmdrmonkey posted:

Maybe I've just had really good luck then, because the off-leases I've bought were always in like-new condition, and any consumer level laptop I could have had for anything close to the same price was fit only for the dumpster. Also, most people aren't made of airports. $300 is a lot of money. Especially if you're like me where your laptop isn't even your main computer.

In fact, I've had such good luck with off-leases, I would never buy a new laptop again. In general, relative to desktops, laptops are underpowered and shoddily made. Even the Thinkpads are pretty shoddy to be honest, they're just not as shoddy as the other stuff that's out there. Laptops are just not made the way they were a decade or more ago. Basically with laptops you're paying a huge premium for the fact that they're portable. The hardware is all underpowered, badly made poo poo that's made in China by slaves at Foxconn. Going off-lease, you avoid the premium and pay what a laptop should really cost, which is no more than about $300 or so.

Seems like good advice for the op. "If you spend more than $300 for a laptop, you might be retarded."

E: I guess there was one reasonable part in the above post: Laptops are just not made the way they were a decade or more ago.

This is true. They're lighter, have better battery life, don't turn into space heaters after 15 minutes of use, cost a lot less, have better displays, many are more durable and better made, and are generally much better ideas and much more useful than they were 5-10 years ago.

sourdough fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 5, 2013

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Cmdrmonkey posted:

Macbooks maybe. Everyone else seems to be on a race to the bottom with lovely build quality and no attention to detail. It's hard to even find a laptop with a decent keyboard anymore.

If you don't buy exclusively from Best Buy, you can find lots of well made stuff. Even companies with some of the worst consumer junk laptops, like Dell, Acer, and HP, have some decent or even excellent stuff put out in the past year or two. Samsung and Asus have similarly had some really solid laptops too. They won't be $300 or less, but they'll be a lot more pleasant to use than either a 5 year old laptop or a <$500 new piece of junk.

E: I see where you're coming from if you have a really hard budget, cheap laptops are super junky. In that case, though, something like a Chromebook or good tablet may be a better option.

sourdough fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jul 5, 2013

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Sendo posted:

It doesn't justify it's price at all, who are these Windows users that are holding out for resolutions of that size and willing to pay that much for it at the expense of far more important specs ?

You can get a 13" Haswell MBA with an i7, 8GB RAM and a 512GB SSD and still come out ahead of the ATIV Plus (assuming that price is correct) by a decent margin, even the top of the line Vaio Pro is below that price and the top configuration Dell XPS 13 when it gets it's Haswell refresh would be as well.

AFAIK, UK prices in pounds typically just switch the £ to a $ when you're talking about laptops. If it was $1300-1500 and using your logic, you'll basically be paying maybe $100-200 to go from an Air to a retina Air.

E: Also I missed the best part of your post. Yes, a dual core i7 is certainly a much more important spec than a ridiculously good screen! Why even get an Air when you could get some Qosimo garbage with a desktop i7 in it?! More specs!

sourdough fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jul 8, 2013

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




GZA Genius posted:

If there are only 2 dimm slots though wouldn't it just be better to replace the stock 4gb with 2x4gb sticks from the same manufacturer? So the $80 sticker is a moot point?

You're comparing buying 4 GB from Lenovo for $80 and buying 8 GB from Newegg for $75. That is the price difference in buying from OEM vs doing it yourself that you said you didn't understand.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




mastershakeman posted:

That's the one I'm looking at. I'm a bit leery of going TN instead of IPS based on the advice in the OP, though.

If you want IPS, you'll probably have to step down to a 13.3" laptop and a price of ~$1000 to have many options. I think there are a few 15" options (ivy/sandy bridge Samsung Series 9 maybe?), but I believe they're pretty expensive.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




The Ativ Book 9 Plus, Samsung's 3200x1800 Haswell ultrabook, is set for a shipping date of August 20 for $1400, which I think is a base model (i5, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD), but I'm not positive. I'm looking forward to reviews on it, but I expect it will be the top ultrabook for awhile, given Samsung's previously well-revied high end Series 9 laptops.

E: Oh, that release date is just based on a B&H shipping estimate, now that the thing is up for preorder there. Hrmm.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Infinite Monkeys posted:

Anyone? Picking a laptop is hard

If you're going to get something with a garbage screen, why don't you at least get something with a decent everything else, like a T430? I know you mentioned it before. I don't think anything you're looking at is going to have a better screen and since they'll all have the same terrible resolution, you may as well go with a 14" rather than a 15.6".

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Infinite Monkeys posted:

Well what is there that does have a better screen? I've spent hours looking and every laptop I've found has been that resolution.

I expect they'll all be quite a bit more expensive, unfortunately. In the U.S., you can start getting really nice 1920x1080 IPS screens for maybe $900 or so in 13-14" laptops. For a normal TN panel with a better resolution, it isn't much more than the kinds of bottom barrel stuff you're finding, maybe $600-700 for a 14-15" 1600x900 or 1920x1080. But if the upgraded screen on a T430 is too much, those might also be out of your price range. And that's not the end of the world! I just meant that if you're already having to sacrifice screen quality, you should try to make sure the build quality and other factors are as good as possible.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Hadlock posted:

14" 1080p IPS screen with 8 hrs battery though, hard to complain. We're almost up to 2003 era standards again!

Were there lots of laptops with 14" 1080p IPS screen, 8+ hour battery life, ~4 lbs, and cost <$900 in 2003? Because the first laptop I got, in 2005, was (IIRC) this beautiful thing. 15.4", 1280x800. I remember shopping around and being impressed with the 2 ghz cpu and discrete gpu, ha.

sourdough fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Aug 23, 2013

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Cacator posted:

I just picked up an Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A yesterday for $500 off which seemed like a pretty good deal. Only drawbacks are that it has 4 GB of RAM and a 3rd gen i7, seeing as how I was comparing it to the Sony VAIO Pro which had a Haswell i5 and 8GB (and light as gently caress carbon fibre body). But I figured the 256 GB SSD instead of 128 was a bigger draw and I still use my desktop regularly for gaming/video editing and such. Overall, it was slightly cheaper than the Sony. Was this the right decision? Aside from the occasionally finnicky touchpad (is there any way to adjust it), I'm enjoying the device.

Asus has a few different drivers for the touchpad. I'm using Windows 8 and the accompanying driver and it is usually decent. Back when I still used Windows 7, I remember some of the driver versions were significantly worse than others, so it's something to try at least.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Anti-Derivative posted:

you can install an 8 gig CL 11 chip into it. It will take it up to 10 gigs. The chipset should dual channel the first 2 gigs or so and the remaining 8 will be single channel but still better than just 4. Installing the RAM is fairly easy if you have a Torx T5 screwdriver.

I don't think this is right. The UX32VD has a ram slot, the UX31A does not.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Cream_Filling posted:

Well, tablet operating systems like Windows 8 metro mode usually have terrible font rendering and on a tablet the expected view distance is shorter. And also generic spec obsession. If you're using a computer sitting down at arm's length like a normal laptop or desktop, there's very limited benefit to a higher-res display beyond a certain point, since your eye's ability to resolve two points decreases over distance. But if you're going to hold it right up to your face like a tablet or a smartphone, you will be able to perceive more of a difference.

I'm not really convinced there's a point for normal laptops considering the cost trade-offs involved and how lovely windows display scaling still is. Hell, even the Macbook Air doesn't offer one, probably for similar cost benefit reasons.

Except you don't have to worry about making GBS threads Windows scaling with a 3200x1800 display. I guess you're not sold on the rMBP displays either?

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Cream_Filling posted:

But if so you still have to pay a lot more money to at best use pixel doubling (assuming your drivers do it properly) which is going to look exactly the same as a 1600x900 display. So why bother?

And yes rMBP is inferior to MBA for most users and is seriously way too expensive.

Can't really argue about the price, but being expensive doesn't mean it isn't a nice upgrade. Panel prices will keep going down as it becomes more widespread. As for it looking exactly the same as a 1600x900 display, guess we'll just have to disagree. Read any reviews for a rMBP and they'll gush about the screen, or check out the dumb Apple "demo" of the retina screen.

In any case, something like the Ativ Book 9 Plus fills a gap right now. As you say, most people don't need more hardware than a MBA, but you can't step up from the meh screen without spending $400 or more. Something like a retina Air for $1299 would be a nice option and is just about what the Ativ Book 9 Plus will be (though again, admittedly a bit too expensive).

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

Can you clarify what you mean by this? I was strongly considering getting the Ativ but if there's something just as portable with Haswell and a >768p screen that's better value for money I'd definitely consider it


Do you know when the 1080p model will be out? Right now they've only got a launch date for the 768 model which is why I'm leaning towards the Ativ

4GB ram and 128GB SSD for $1400 is really not good. It's pretty embarrassing that they didn't at least step up to 8GB ram baseline for that price, and 128GB SSD is less egregious but still pretty weak.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Cream_Filling posted:

You open as many documents as you want on 14" display regardless of resolution, but it doesn't make them any more readable or usable unless you have a bizarre desk setup where your face is only inches away from the screen.

If the font is the same physical size, it will be clearer and thus easier to read with a higher resolution display. It is exactly analogous to a non-retina iPad vs. a retina iPad, since you're now comparing a lower resolution laptop at x distance and a high resolution laptop at the same distance. Whether you personally care or not, I'm not really sure how you're arguing about this.

TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

Hmm, are there alternative Haswell ultrabooks I should consider that have a >768 screen? I think the XPS 12 would be a bit too small at 12.5 inches but I'm open to other suggestions

I'm not sure, I'm not in the market for one now so haven't been too vigilant about what's been refreshed with Haswell. Whenever the Zenbook Infinity comes out, it should be decent, but who knows. If you decide you do quite like the Ativ and want more ram or SSD space, I'm sure you'll be able to spend an extra couple hundred for them. Then you're getting into kinda crazy $1600+ territory, though.

vvvvv: Yeah, sounds like you're in a somewhat awkward time crunch, where you need something before you'll really have a ton of options with Haswell + high resolution.

sourdough fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 31, 2013

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012





I wonder how much the different keyboard covers will be. $1299 for 8GB RAM / 256GB SSD isn't the worst price compared to other ultrabooks, but it isn't very compelling when there are so many drawbacks to it relative to an actual laptop.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Bob Morales posted:

After this generation of laptops, anything that doesn't have IPS or an equivalent might as well be thrown in the trash.

Macbook Air to go from most recommended to literal garbage in less than a year!

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Bob Morales posted:

People are already complaining about the current screen, it's not terrible but it's not 'great'. This is a $1,099 laptop we are talking about here.

Oh I agree, it was just funny to me. To be fair, it's probably getting close to when Apple will update the MBA screen, too, right? In another year or two? Although I'm not sure where they'll go, I can't see them bumping up the screen to rMBP quality or doing a straight 1920x1200.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Bob Morales posted:

I clicked on the link from their front page today - somehow I must have clicked on a link to the old review from inside there and shared it. poo poo.

Between the larger battery and Haswell, the new XPS picks up a couple of extra hours in our Wi-Fi browsing test, which loops a set of webpages continuously with the screen set to 50 percent brightness until the computer dies. The Haswell XPS 12 lasted for seven hours and 58 minutes in this test

Good, but not quite the 12 hours of the Haswell MacBook Air

Does anyone have a good sense for how much of that is the 1080p (possibly brighter?) display? Does touchscreen vs. non-touchscreen or TN vs. IPS make a difference? I don't doubt the Air is really well optimized, but I wonder whether it is realistic to expect a high resolution screen with a comparable battery to come close to matching it, or if these laptops are to some extent bumping up against a display vs. battery life tradeoff.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




fookolt posted:

What are the good ultrabooks at the 11-12" screen size other than the MacBook Air? It's for my girlfriend; she wants a whole lot of battery life and portability and wants to check some other options before going with the MacBook Air.

From last page, but my wife just got a Yoga 11s. She wanted something 13" or smaller, didn't care too much about battery, and as cheap as possible (and I wouldn't let her get a complete piece of poo poo). The Yoga 11s is actually quite nice, but 4-5 hours of battery is all you should expect. That's not bad, and I was pleasantly surprised it matched the 13" version, but it won't come close to a Haswell MBA. A touchscreen on an 11" laptop is actually reasonably useful, too, since it's that much closer to a tablet in size and distance to you. The IPS screen is also quite good.

If Lenovo refreshes with a Haswell Yoga 11s before you need to get a laptop, I'd definitely check it out, especially if there's an 8GB RAM configuration. It's not got as good battery life as the 11" MBA and probably not quite as good a keyboard or touchpad (though they're still good), but I like the screen better, the touchscreen is reasonably useful, it'll have Windows, and will be cheaper.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Socrates16 posted:

I am literally packing up my Y510P to return as we speak. It's definitely a quality device, but screen is the most important thing to me, and the 1080P screen wasn't good enough. It's not bad by any stretch, and the bang for the buck on the device is great, but the screen just can't compare to my HDTV or phone. I'm just going to grab that new HP 11 chromebook because it's the only computer I've seen with an IPS display that isn't $1,500+.

Yogas, Zenbooks, lots of other newer ultrabooks? I mean, they won't have the power that the Y510 has, but they're a lot closer to it than the Chromebook will be. I think any of the Ivy Bridge ones would be <$1000 now and will still get at least as good battery life as the HP Chromebook, too.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Butt Soup Barnes posted:

Bah the Best Buy order system is messed up now. Went to check out and said Amex wouldn't approve the charge, called them and said everything was fine and they weren't sure why it wasn't approved. I tried again but got an error saying it was removed from my cart due to high demand. Now it can only be purchased for store pickup but it's of course not available anywhere so it's not possible to actually order it.

Oh well, it was worth a try.

Edit: The i5 version is still showing available for shipping if anybody wanted to try that.

That's still pretty crazy. Here's the i5 for $1000, which is equivalent to the Samsung Ativ Book 9 Plus that's $1400 (i5, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD). I still think it must be an error, but I hope not! Even if it is a mistake, there's another listing for that model that says "coming soon" and has the same price, so maybe it's a listed-too-early rather than a wrong price kind of mistake?

sourdough fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Oct 14, 2013

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012





Or apparently $1000 Yoga Pro 2, if you can step down to 4GB RAM/128GB SSD. Ivy Bridge Zenbooks will also have a good 1080p IPS display, but one with more RAM and bigger SSD might still be ~$1000. Refurbished with 4/128 will likely be ~$700ish. There are also some Dells and Acers, but I think ones with comparable screens ended up costing a little more.

In any case, a ULV Ivy Bridge with a 1080p IPS and otherwise basic specs sounds like they would serve you fine. They're definitely not overkill in terms of power, like you seem worried about.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Thanks for the review ButtSoupBarnes. It definitely seems like the best ultrabook at the moment. If I hadn't bought a new laptop last year, I would have jumped on it from Best Buy like you did.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




mcbexx posted:

Well, the Yoga 2 Pro is up on lenovo.com, already with a $250 rebate on the i5 models (silver and clementine) from the SRP of 1,399.00, allegedly shipping as of today.

Please go and buy it, I need more trip reports to make up my mind

Edit: Butt Soup Barnes, how's the fan noise on the Yoga 2 Pro (idle/under load)?

$1149 for a 3200x1800 screen, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD. Not MBA battery life, but everything else is pretty great, like they're not horribly gouging for the RAM and SSD upgrades. Unless Samsung et al. reduce their prices quite a bit, I'm not sure how any other ultrabook is going to compete. You last few holdouts, time to give up your nipples and embrace the touchpad

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




MatCauthon posted:

I'm (STILL) holding out to see what the specs and prices on the t440s are going to be, but if it doesn't drop by holiday season I'll probably be going with the Yoga 2 Pro.

I'm fighting the urge to buy pretty hard right now. I just bought a Zenbook last year, 15 months ago, and have never kept a laptop for less than ~3 years. But I can sell that on eBay for $700-800 and get an upgraded screen, double the RAM and SSD, come close to doubling the battery life, and only be out $400-500.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Naffer posted:

Their pricing is definitely pretty reasonable. for $1500 you get an i5 with Iris 5100 graphics, 8GB of RAM, a 256 GB SSD and a 2560 by 1600 display. That's essentially everything the Zenbook Infinity was supposed to offer when it appeared.
Comparisons:
Yoga 2 Pro: i7, HD4400, 8GB, 256GB, 3200*1800 display, ~$1300-1500
Samsung 9 Plus: i5, HD4400, 4GB, 128GB, 3200*1800 display, ~$1400
Acer Aspire S7: i5, HD4400, 8GB, 256GB, 1080p display ~$1400
Vaio 13 Pro: i5, HD4400, 8GB, 256GB, 1080p display ~$1500

Yeah, but if you don't need the i7, the Yoga 2 Pro with i5/8/256 is $1150-1200. The MBPs are definitely priced competitively with the rest of that crowd, though.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Butt Soup Barnes posted:

What? The Yoga 2 i5/4/128 is $1,000 and the i7/8/256 is $1,200. More expensive directly from Lenovo but they have a coupon that brings it down closer to Best Buy's price.

Oh, I didn't realize the $1200 one from Best Buy was i7, my bad. There aren't any in stores around me anyway. The $1150 from Lenovo is definitely i5.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012




Naffer posted:

My Yoga 2 Pro (i7, 8GB, 256GB, silver) is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.
Is it worth trying to redo the partition scheme or is it ok from the factory?

I think I've read the partitions aren't horrible like the original Yoga was, but there is still ~10GB or so if I remember right, dedicated to recovery and other junk. Not too big a deal, I wouldn't think.

Wish I'd ordered it the day they became available. I'm set for 11/13 delivery, pushed back from 10/31 I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about it when you get it, if you have time.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply