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Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!

EugeneJ posted:

In the US, credit card reforms recently required every card company to provide a plain-text summary of how much money you'd pay overall in time with the provided interest rate. Lenders should be able to do the same thing with mortgages.

When I signed a mortgage (that I shouldn't have), there was a line showing total finance charge.

I still don't think it's accurate though to say you paid (purchase price plus finance charge) because you may possibly be making extra payments.

Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Feb 3, 2016

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Series DD Funding
Nov 25, 2014

by exmarx
Also thinking that a summation of 30 years of payments is a useful number is pretty BWM

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you
My parents bought a house in the early 80s before the crash, and they felt like chumps paying $500/mo for their traditional 20% down mortgage when their neighbors were paying $250/mo ARMs with a 5 year balloon payment.

They stopped feeling like chumps when all the neighbors lost their houses in exactly 5 years

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Not a Children posted:

Huh, I thought most of it got pissed away on her horses, but it's nice to hear that the bulk of the money went back to the city.

Yea, she was actually really good at breeding the horses, so they sold well at auction. They got about $10m back from auctions, and then another $40m in a settlement where the city sued its auditors/bank (although lawyers got 10m of that). So they definitely got ripped off but it could have easily been much much worse.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

canyoneer posted:

My parents bought a house in the early 80s before the crash, and they felt like chumps paying $500/mo for their traditional 20% down mortgage when their neighbors were paying $250/mo ARMs with a 5 year balloon payment.

They stopped feeling like chumps when all the neighbors lost their houses in exactly 5 years

Balloon payments seem to do nothing for financial stability as anyone who has a balloon payment doesn't seem to understand how it works.

OneWhoKnows
Dec 6, 2006
I choo choo choooose you!

Devian666 posted:

Balloon payments seem to do nothing for financial stability as anyone who has a balloon payment doesn't seem to understand how it works.

In non-financial crisis situations, do most people who aren't paying off the balance just expect to refinance?

CellBlock
Oct 6, 2005

It just don't stop.



OneWhoKnows posted:

In non-financial crisis situations, do most people who aren't paying off the balance just expect to refinance?

I would imagine, just like all those Interest Only loans that were issued. You just pay the interest for a while, and then when you build equity solely through the property appreciating, you either refinance or sell the house. (It's stupid, but it sounds like a great idea when everyone you trust to advise you through this tells you things like "home prices never go down.")

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

OneWhoKnows posted:

In non-financial crisis situations, do most people who aren't paying off the balance just expect to refinance?

That is what financially literate person would do if they wanted to keep the house. Imagine getting a mortgage and then clocking up a lot of other debts to the point where you can't refinance your house at the end of 5 years. I guess owning 5 broken down trucks and a lame horse is better than owning a house.

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer

CellBlock posted:

I would imagine, just like all those Interest Only loans that were issued. You just pay the interest for a while, and then when you build equity solely through the property appreciating, you either refinance or sell the house. (It's stupid, but it sounds like a great idea when everyone you trust to advise you through this tells you things like "home prices never go down.")

There was a home buying show on TLC in 2005 or 2006 where the host was trying to get this earnest single mother into the home of her dreams. They didn't just get her an ARM, I'm pretty sure it was an Option-ARM because it had a teaser rate. The whole plan was for her to earn more money by the time rates increased.

I wish I could find that show. It rivaled that nasty wife/realtor commercial in terribleness.

Switchback
Jul 23, 2001

Series DD Funding posted:

Also thinking that a summation of 30 years of payments is a useful number is pretty BWM

Lol yeah $53.7 million isn't a useful number because its the sum of a bunch of payments over 20+ years..


LA Times reported in November that her estate had brought in about $10 million from auctioning her stuff (including $775k for a horse) and $30 million in a lawsuit with their auditors. She was ordered to pay $107 million, which is obviously never gonna happen, but for the town to recover 75% of the losses is impressive.

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

I think it's kinda odd that the town didn't get the full losses + damages from the auditors. Isn't having auditors supposed to be your failsafe against poo poo like this?

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer

Not a Children posted:

I think it's kinda odd that the town didn't get the full losses + damages from the auditors. Isn't having auditors supposed to be your failsafe against poo poo like this?

They probably maxed out their insurance. I mean, you expect to pay out some claims but not $50 million. Odds are the city got the maximum amount possible and it still wasn't enough.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

An auditor isn't a guarantor. If they did not exercise appropriate diligence, or made claims without supporting evidence, you could sue them for professional negligence, but unlikely to get full damages. After all, they didn't perpetrate the fraud, they merely failed to uncover it.

Most audits also explicitly disclaim the risk of management mischief, because management can alter any of the things that the auditors would be using as ground truth. Few auditors, even for things like a company going public or a large acquisition, have "forensic" access to a company's books. Nor is it a normal practice for them to independently verify things like capital investments by looking at the equipment that was bought. They might pull D&B numbers for vendors and look for obvious cronyism, but even that would be unusual for a small town, and expensive. And the person who is deciding what sort of audit to pay for is...the person committing the fraud, in this case.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Whatever happened to SloMo? Did he suck-start a .45?

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

movax posted:

Whatever happened to SloMo? Did he suck-start a .45?

Got lovely and we stopped caring.

Switchback
Jul 23, 2001

quote:

I am wanti,g $ to get that tattoo off my for head I want to have a better start out in life and have a second chance at life please help me I was young n dumb when I got that I'm older one looking for a job can't get out and people call me a druggie every day of my life and being called 420 is not nice and I almost killed my self over it. ..can't stand to look at my face anymore. .save a life save me..invest in me and I will show you I can be better with my life. ..thank you

Lady crowd funding the removal of the 420 tattoo on her forehead.

quote:

and by the way I will not be goin on the show the doctors because of my i.d isses so I will not being getting any free tattoo removal from anyone

Sic Semper Goon
Mar 1, 2015

Eu tu?

:zaurg:

Switchblade Switcharoo

I wonder what her "i.d isses" are, considering that she's already as publicly exposed as she's going to get.

Then again, any thought and consideration of the consequences were clearly de trop in this scenario to begin with.

Florida Betty
Sep 24, 2004

Sic Semper Goon posted:

I wonder what her "i.d isses" are, considering that she's already as publicly exposed as she's going to get.

Then again, any thought and consideration of the consequences were clearly de trop in this scenario to begin with.

I'm guessing it's "Intellectual Disability", at least based off one person in the comments who claims to be her brother is saying. And the spelling.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

Florida Betty posted:

I'm guessing it's "Intellectual Disability", at least based off one person in the comments who claims to be her brother is saying. And the spelling.

Yeah it's actually kind of sad.

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

Yeah of all the things to crowd fund I don't think a tattoo removal is even close to the worst. I'd rather give someone money for that than their vacation or money to buy a house to flip.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Yeah if someone wanted to sell me, uhh, equity in their career, and they were going to use the sale money to remove that tattoo, I'd say it was a good investment.

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

NancyPants posted:

Yeah of all the things to crowd fund I don't think a tattoo removal is even close to the worst. I'd rather give someone money for that than their vacation or money to buy a house to flip.

She's not removing the tattoo. She is just asking for money because her life is miserable or something.

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

Nitrox posted:

She's not removing the tattoo. She is just asking for money because her life is miserable or something.

Ooh yeah well gently caress that then.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Nitrox posted:

She's not removing the tattoo. She is just asking for money because her life is miserable or something.
I don't read that on the site, pretty bizarre if it's true.

Blinkman987
Jul 10, 2008

Gender roles guilt me into being fat.
Salty rear end people on that page mad that their individual crisis handout pleas aren't being addressed and instead are passed over for some lady's tattoo removal.

They think GoFundMe is for horrible accidents or illnesses. No, that's what a functional health care system is for you loving morons. These are the people who think we should handle cancer with spaghetti dinner nights at the local VFW.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Blinkman987 posted:

Salty rear end people on that page mad that their individual crisis handout pleas aren't being addressed and instead are passed over for some lady's tattoo removal.

They think GoFundMe is for horrible accidents or illnesses. No, that's what a functional health care system is for you loving morons. These are the people who think we should handle cancer with spaghetti dinner nights at the local VFW.

I thought that was exactly what GoFundMe was for if you live in third world countries like the US.

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

I don't read that on the site, pretty bizarre if it's true.
It's quoted 6 posts above mine

quote:

UPDATE #4 7 DAYS AGO
11 person likes this update
and by the way I will not be goin on the show the doctors because of my i.d isses so I will not being getting any free tattoo removal from anyone
That was her response to someone who said they will pay for removal outright, but insisted on paying directly to the clinic, not her personally.

quote:

Caitlin Augusta 400400 14 days ago
I don't know you but I'll pay for the removal with a cc over the phone directly to wherever you go to have it removed.... Feel free to contact me through fb. I will look up the number for the place myself and call them directly and leave payment for you to have it removed. No one should have to live with something like that on their body.

Nitrox fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 4, 2016

-Zydeco-
Nov 12, 2007


Nitrox posted:

She's not removing the tattoo. She is just asking for money because her life is miserable or something.

I think her last update is her saying that she will not be going on a medical show that would be doing the tattoo removal for free and pocketing the money.


Fake edit: From the recent donations

Juanita Wanda Halden posted:

$5
11 days ago
I emailed this to Go Fund Me support email 24/01/2016. Notice To Act: Dear Go Fund Me agents / representatives; It is my duty of care to Notice you to act regarding a campaign of hate mail, cyber bullying and sexual discrimination directed at myself & a female Go Fund Me campaigner. I expect Go Fund Me to protect & respect this woman - her campaign link is as follows; https://www.gofundme.com/tabitha-west The following is a copy of mail received through Facebook: Michael Bennett Hello Juanita. I was just on a site called GoFundMe and found a comment in which you shamed people for refusing to donate to get a girl's head tattoo removed. I won't "shame" the girl who got the tattoo on her forehead. She did that to herself already by making the poor decision of getting the tattoo. It is clear that Tabitha is in need of some help and that she may have some psychological issues which still may need to be addressed, but it is not the public's business to do that. The page was a cry for help clearly, but this is not what the site's intended purpose was. You probably don't even actually care about Tabitha, however. I believe you have made a mistake and hope you can learn from it. At your age you can not afford to be so ignorant. GoFundMe should be used for charity causes. Like real charity. Not a bailout for someone who made a foolish decision that affects nobody. There is no moral weight to her tattoo removal. There is, however, to donating to an actual cause. Taken directly from the page itself, here is a quote from Shawn Morse (someone who ACTUALLY NEEDS FUNDING FOR A LEGITIMATE PURPOSE): "Its people like you that keep my sick girl from getting help. My daughter has three brain tumors, cerebral palsy, neurofibromatosis, an optic glioma, & a feeding tube. My daughters GoFundMe keeps getting passed over for things like this. There are too many people begging for money for their bad decisions in their life, meanwhile my very sick 10 year old daughter can get the help she needs. I'm outraged that this is being used to remove a tattoo, so my daughters GoFundMe just gets passed by and buried just like the other girl who is begging for money because she doesn't want to work." So. By your logic shame on him too for mentioning a cause of actual importance, right? By your logic, shame on him for chastising people for donating toward a cause that won't save his daughter's life right? Maybe that cause seems small to you, perched from atop your ivory tower, but shame on YOU for being so judgemental towards him and other rational people. I hope you at least have the decency to do something truly charitable with your money in the future and perhaps you can keep your ignorant opinion to yourself. Good day, Juanita. Michael Bennet The McCaig Foundation The following is my response to a hate email sent to me because I chose to throw $5 at a crowd fund to support a woman's choice to improve herself by removal of a facial tattoo: "Dear Michael, Go shove your unsolicited opinion up your bum mate - my decision to assist or support a woman to improve her life is my own you wanker. You hate mongering folks can try Rationalising hate campaign and misogyny all you want - I will always oppose it. And I will always be advocating for women's empowerment. Why do you think your opinion of what constitutes 'crowd funding' worthiness is superior to mine or any other woman's? As for your own crowd fund campaign for your daughter - maybe if you dropped your hatred for women you might get somewhere with it? I dunno - just a thought? I certainly will continue to exercise my right to choose & you can shove your bigoted + ignorant sexist opinions up ya clacker. Bottom line is everyone deserves a chance and everyone deserves to believe in the good of someone else's intent. Cheerio from the ivory tower; Juanita 'Wanda' Halden HighCountry Foundation Presenting; https://www.dprgp.org and other private projects designed to empower folks." Kind regards, Juanita 'Wanda' Halden Out'n'about on !Phone Ph. 0473 214 352

:eyepop:

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
from a VW TDI forum, same idiot posted this in a couple of threads:

quote:

I've only owned my 2014 Beetle TDI premium for 8 months but the VW emissions drama and worrying about how much money I was going to loose along with reading 2014 Jetta TDI is now only getting $8k at auction motivated
me to trade it in, take some cash out of my 401k and buy a 2016 Jeep Wrangler. Off roading used to be a hobby.. now it is again. Hopefully I can recoup the money I had to put down because the TDI only got me $14k. $5200 below payoff. I had $5k of equity going in. I'll never buy a new volkswagen again.

quote:

A friend of mine has a Manheim account. 2014/2015 Jetta TDI and Jetta TDI wagons are now averaging $8k at auction. When I saw that I traded in my 2014 TDI Beetle Premium before it's value hit rock bottom. I got $14k.. for a car that should have had $24k. The car only had 8k miles and I bought it 5/18/2014. VW really screwed us. I didn't want to take a chance on losing any more. I had to tap my 401k saving to put enough money down on a 2016 Jeep Wrangler Sport S. My car had a Fender Stereo so I had to get at least the 567w Alpine stereo. Hopefully I can recoup $10k from the class action law suit.
Many recent owners are screwed. I liked the car.. my wife and I took it on several long road trips... It was great driving through the White Mountains in New Hampshire lots of torque. To be honest I don't trust volkswagen any more so I don't trust that the "fix" will not hamper efficiency or performance. I used the VW $500.00 visa for half the tax, title, destination charges.
I'll never buy a new Volkswagen again.

Yup, the only solution was to buy a new car, and tap your 401k to do it :eyepop:

Moneyball
Jul 11, 2005

It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.

BraveUlysses posted:

from a VW TDI forum, same idiot posted this in a couple of threads:



Yup, the only solution was to buy a new car, and tap your 401k to do it :eyepop:

No, but you see, they had to.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost
No, they had to get the upgraded stereo system.

ploots
Mar 19, 2010

quote:

It was great driving through the White Mountains in New Hampshire lots of torque. 

All of the roads go through the notches and are very flat. The only road with any elevation gain is the Mt Washington auto road... which has a speed limit of a snail's pace.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
haha what the hell its an unrealized loss until you sell the car

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos
Dude was just looking for a reason to get the jeep.

HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008
Fallen Rib
Guy on local political discussion show: "My wife has horses. That's why I'm not retired."

Switchback
Jul 23, 2001



Divorcing couple divides beanie baby collection under judge supervision, 1999

pig slut lisa
Mar 5, 2012

irl is good


Switchback posted:



Divorcing couple divides beanie baby collection under judge supervision, 1999

I can't decide whether to be more embarrassed for the woman who wore a suit to divide a pile of beanie babies on the floor, or the man who showed up to court in a polo shirt and white new balance dad sneakers

pig slut lisa
Mar 5, 2012

irl is good


Oh also here's a fun local news story:

quote:

A bizarre lawsuit stemming from a University of Illinois physician's desire to acquire his neighbors' driveway continues to consume the time and resources of the courts.

Champaign County Circuit Judge Jeffrey Ford issued a $242,400 judgment in May 2015 against Dr. Milorad Ketchens for his allegedly underhanded attempt to acquire the driveway of his neighbors, Ross and Leslie McNeil.

Last month, Ford imposed a $29,354 judgment against the University of Illinois Employees Credit Union for ignoring a court order freezing Ketchens' account and allowing the veteran physician to withdraw funds.

The McNeils live at 609 W. Stoughton St., U, while Ketchens and his wife, Sheila, reside at 613 S. Stoughton St., U.

The legal dispute began in January 1998, when Mrs. McNeil returned home to find that Ketchens had parked his car in the McNeils' driveway. Claiming he — not the McNeils — owned the property, Ketchens did not move the car until 2010, following a state appeals court decision rejecting his ownership claim.

The McNeils then sued Ketchens for the alleged torment he had put them through.

Judge Ford ordered that Ketchens pay $2,400 in actual damages for denying the McNeils the use of their property.

He also ordered an additional $240,000 in punitive damages against Ketchens for conduct he said "shocked the conscience of this court."


Because Ketchens has asserted that he does not have sufficient funds to post an appeal bond equal to the judgment, the McNeils' lawyer, Fred Grosser, has the legal right to begin collection efforts.

Grosser obtained a court order directing the UI to deduct $1,800 a month from Ketchens' roughly $150,000 annual salary. So far, the wage garnishments total about $15,000.

Grosser said he also has arranged freezes on funds held in accounts at some unidentified financial institutions.

"I won't say any more about that until we have filed a 'motion for turnover' with the court," Grosser said.

But he's also battling with the UI credit union over its allegedly inappropriate decision to disburse frozen funds to Ketchens.

Donald Parkinson, the credit union's lawyer, has filed a motion asking Judge Ford to reconsider his $29,000-plus judgment against the credit union. A hearing on that motion is set for March 9.

Meanwhile, Ketchens' appeal of the judgment against him is off to a slow start.

According to legal documents, he paid $35,000 to Springfield lawyer William Hardy to handle the appeal. So far, however, Hardy has filed five motions seeking an extension of time to file his brief on Ketchens' behalf. The last extension Hardy filed asked for a delay until Feb. 10.

Once Ketchens' brief is filed, Grosser will have five weeks to file a respond.

If all goes according to routine procedure, the 4th District Appellate Court ultimately will schedule oral arguments and render a decision.

For now, however, the only activity involves the McNeils and the credit union's skirmish over the $29,000.

Legal records show that Grosser filed the requisite papers on Aug. 13, 2015, that "expressly prohibits the credit union from making or allowing any transfer" to Ketchens.

"The freezing of the account needs to be accomplished immediately. As you are now aware, there will be substantial funds deposited to that account (Aug. 14, 2015) which you are required to receive and freeze," Grosser wrote Kristy Lewis, the institution's associate director of operations.

"I have received the statement and found the account. We will take the necessary actions, as described in the citation," Lewis wrote.

Several days later, Lewis informed Grosser that she had consulted the credit union's director of security and decided to allow Ketchens to withdraw funds from his account.

"Dr. Ketchens provided documentation showing that the (UI) began withholding 15 percent of his gross wages starting in June. Because the (UI) has garnished his wages, the rest of his payroll is exempt," she wrote.

Grosser challenged the credit union's interpretation, filing a motion asking that it be required to pay to the McNeils whatever sums it had allowed Ketchens to withdraw.

Grosser argued that "no funds of (Ketchens) and in the control of the credit union can be disbursed to any person or entity without an order of the court," and Judge Ford agreed.

The battle over the driveway, which is now in its 18th year, began after Ketchens discovered the driveway he coveted — so-called Tract A — was left off the property description of the McNeils' residence at 609 W. Stoughton St.

As a result of what was described as decade-old "scrivener's error," Tract A was recorded as unowned property. Ketchens sought to acquire ownership by paying the property taxes on the small plot of land and acquiring a deed from a now-deceased Urbana lawyer conveying the property to Ketchens.

Ketchens apparently wanted the property so that he could trade it to the owner of the house located between the Ketchens and McNeil residences. That would allow him to expand his property to the east while permitting the owner of the middle house to expand his property to the east. The owner of the middle house rejected Ketchens' proposed swap.

The courts ultimately concluded that the property had always been a part of the property the McNeils own and that Ketchens had no right to it.

In the McNeils civil lawsuit against Ketchens, they alleged that the years of fighting with Ketchens over their driveway made life miserable for them and their children. In ruling against Ketchens, Ford said it is "hard to believe that (Ketchens) could not realize the totality of his actions could affect (the McNeils) as it did."

As part of the collection process, attorney Grosser has conducted citations hearing in which he has asked Ketchens about his assets. Ketchens has said he has no extra funds and needs his university paycheck to pay his bills.

Even better than the credit union somehow landing itself in a $30,000 adverse judgment is the $150K earner in this extremely affordable community claiming that "he has no extra funds" and is essentially living paycheck to paycheck.

:cripes:

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

pig slut lisa posted:

Even better than the credit union somehow landing itself in a $30,000 adverse judgment is the $150K earner in this extremely affordable community claiming that "he has no extra funds" and is essentially living paycheck to paycheck.

:cripes:

He has so many cars he can't fit them all on his driveway, that has to add up.

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BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

pig slut lisa posted:

Oh also here's a fun local news story:


Even better than the credit union somehow landing itself in a $30,000 adverse judgment is the $150K earner in this extremely affordable community claiming that "he has no extra funds" and is essentially living paycheck to paycheck.

:cripes:

It might surprise you to know that people appealing large judgments against them routinely claim that they have no extra funds and depend upon the income that the other party is trying to garnish

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