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You can get away with literal murder, but you'll never get away with possession of a shovel.
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Jul 7, 2013 00:03
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I cant rhyme posted:So I really want to get back into this show but at this point it seems like the only interesting mystery is what season is it in Rosewood? The central plot dating back to the pilot ("who killed Alison?", and now "is she even dead?") is still unanswered. And now there's a non-Mona A floating around. I mean, I guess if you're only in it for awesome mysteries, then yeah you probably wouldn't like it still? It's the same show it's always been.
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Jul 16, 2013 00:21
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DrPlump posted:My wife watches this show so I only see it while she has it on. Am I missing some reason why these girls can't just call the cops? I asked her and she said there is no reason. It's a constant loop of their e-stalker filming them (or one of their parents) doing something that looks Real Bad such that going to the cops with other stuff is just going to end up in things getting worse. Plus a couple of the cops in previous seasons were actually directly or indirectly involved in loving up these girls' lives, so there's probably a level of "can't trust nobody but ESPECIALLY not the police" at play. This, however, does not stop them from making the worst possible non-police decisions imaginable at, like, all times.
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Aug 14, 2013 05:33
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Coconut Indian posted:I read that the the author of the books this show is based on is putting out more. When is this show going to end then? I've never read the books but it'd seem weird if the A storyline followed the girls into college, because it seems like you'd have to trap all the major players into local schools (which Spencer loving Hastings would not settle for Hollis) in order to keep things reasonably coherent. "Someone is stalking me and filming my every move and blackmailing me!" starts to fall apart the more decentralized the main action gets. Like, we joke about how omnipotent A is but A only really has to work within Rosewood and its immediate surroundings, with rare jaunts out to other places.
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Aug 14, 2013 07:56
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God bless Spencer "Hi, it's Spencer, I'm crawling into the crawlspace!" Hastings. God bless Emily "Shut up, Hanna!" Fields. God bless Hanna "Are you pregnant?" Marin. And I guess Aria and her boob-punching, too. God. Bless. This. Show. (Please let Ezra for real be the ultimate creeper.)
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Aug 28, 2013 02:42
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Cityinthesea posted:At least Ezra is then involved in the plot. If it's legit, and Ezra's creepily involved at best, then that gives us Mona, Jenna, Shana, Cece, Melissa, Wren, and now Ezra. Mona referenced there being a 'team' but the only people we ever saw her actively working with were Toby and Lucas. She was visited in Radley by Cece, whose visit was facilitated by Wren (apparently the only doctor in the entirety of Rosewood), who was engaged to and now apparently jetting off to live with Melissa, who was seen consorting with Jenna and Shana but swears everything she did was to protect Spencer. And we know Wilden was involved before getting killed, but I think we can safely say he didn't try to kill Alison because that reveal would be fairly anticlimactic at this point. So it seems pretty strongly that it's Wren or Ezra now, with the others involved in covering it up/pursuing still-alive Alison to varying degrees. (Which really fits if you think about it, that Wren or Ezra would be 'board shorts' and Alison's other-other-other older guy, because both of them are loving skeevy when it comes to underage/teenager girls.) If it's legit, we're primed to get some hella backstory about Ezra going to college in Rosewood and how he might be connected to all of those other people. Also, one of my friends checked and this screencap from 4x11 is legit. Look at the mug in the background: 
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Aug 28, 2013 06:20
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I think Ian is confirmed dead. He disappeared after the belltower thing but they found his body with a gun and a fake suicide note in a barn some time after that.
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Aug 28, 2013 06:50
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TurnipFritter posted:The conversation between Toby and Spencer re: Wren was... off. It was the way he referred to Wren as Spencer's ex-boyfriend, which... he wasn't, was he? I know they kissed a few times and went on a couple of dates (one of which was explicitly to get back at Toby for being A and then Toby tried to murder Spencer in her Space Shower), but they were never in a relationship, right? They never explicitly dated that I remember, no, but Toby might be referencing the time he fell off a ladder or something and was in the hospital and saw Wren flirting with Spencer.
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Aug 28, 2013 14:54
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At this point, I think 'board shorts' has to be either Ezra or Wren. I wouldn't be surprised if the gist is that Wren dated Alison on the sly (or was just really, really stalkery about her) because he's just that creepo, found out she was also chasing Ian and whatever other dudes at the same time, tried to kill her or whatever, then has been playing like every side possible this whole time, after figuring out she wasn't actually dead, just to find her again so he can kiil her for real. We know he thought himself pretty tight with Mona, that Shana's for whatever reason carting around his packing receipts/labels, that he got Cece in to see Mona in Radley, that he was engaged to Melissa and is now running the gently caress away to go live in her flat (AND let's not forget that Melissa specifically warned Spencer to stay the gently caress away from Wren before Spencer nearly died in her Robot Death Shower). And he has access to, like, everything ever since he's the only drat doctor/psychiatrist in town. So that's my take. Everyone else involved has their own reasons for being involved (eg. Cece wants revenge for getting kicked out of UPenn and also probably killed Wilden because she was scared of him) but Wren's the one actually targeting Alison, and he's playing everyone because he thinks at least one of them will lead him to her. And Ezra's just another red herring (sad as it is, because it'd make his character 1000000% more interesting if he was actually that much a bad guy.) Of course, the question still lingering: if Alison's definitely alive, who the hell's bones did they bury? (Book spoilers that may or may not actually happen on the show: I mean, there's the possibility that the bones were Alison's twin but you'd think at least Mrs. DeLaurentis of anyone would have mentioned by now that Ali even had a twin since none of the girls seem to know that, if it was relevant to the show storyline. And the show's veered pretty sharply off course from the books starting with how Mona's still alive and up to shenanigans. In the books, she dies the night everyone figures out that she's A.
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Aug 28, 2013 16:25
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Wren's been overtly sketchy at least since the tail end of last season and Spencer's trip to Radley (where the show painted a picture that it was Eddie Lamb vs Wren for some reason or other and one or both couldn't be trusted). Beyond that, it's mostly been him scamming on teenage girls.
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Aug 28, 2013 16:53
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I think you could technically include Toby and Jake in that bunch as well. Caleb's like the only teen boy any of them have ever seriously dated who's actually (still) in high school, and he just got sent through a time portal to Ye Olde Ravenswood or something. (I thought Toby was a high schooler but apparently not? He's never actually at school, anyway, and is always gallivanting around the countryside. Maybe he graduated at the end of season 2 or something.) Also, did that Sean Faris character ever actually do anything of import? The guy they cast to play one of the state police, Holbrook or whatever? It seems like at some point in the season they just went, "Eh, gently caress it," and let Roma Maffia take over the police side of things.
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Aug 28, 2013 17:29
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TurnipFritter posted:Yeah, he did a little bit of A stuff. The only thing I really recall was Emily's massage. He might have also had a hand in Emily getting roofied. I vaguely recall that the extra pills in question were stashed in his camera case or something that Aria found. And he was palling around with Jenna and Melissa at that masquerade ball on Mona's orders for whatever reason (the night Mona was revealed as A). Also, PLL and soon Ravenswood are teaching me that Pennsylvania is to be avoided at all costs.
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Aug 28, 2013 20:13
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TurnipFritter posted:Book spoilers I hope they don't go down that route for the show, because the twins aspect was terrible both in concept and execution. I wouldn't be surprised if CeCe ended up being Alison's long lost (older) half-sister, possibly fathered by Papa DiLaurentis. That would help explain why she was a college student hanging out with a ninth grader. More book spoiler talk! There was an interview with the girl who plays Alison, Sasha Pieterse, where she said as far as she knows/has been told, the writers have no intention of introducing the 'Ali has a twin!' story to the show. Which I think works out for the best since the show and books have diverged pretty much all over the drat place and pulling the twin card in the show at this point would be something they do just because it was one of the major plot points of the books rather than as something that actually makes sense given the storylines of the show. I think, then, that the ghost story Alison tells during the first Halloween episode, of the twin girls where one of them is jealous and kills the other is going to end up being a call-out/wink-wink-nudge-nudge to book readers rather than anything that has any pertinence to the show proper.
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Aug 28, 2013 23:55
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Sophia posted:I also got the sense that he was mad that A was back and they didn't tell him about it (because he doesn't know, as far as I understand) than that he was found out or anything. Not to mention that I think it was Mona who pushed Ian off the tower and chopped down the tree. Don't get me wrong I would love it to be Ezra, and I think the ground has been laid for him to be a lot more deeply disturbed and unbalanced than the surface regardless, but I don't think he played the end scene like he was the mastermind. As I think more about how Wren seems to be involved in all of the pies he makes a lot more sense. Didn't Mona specifically say in 4x01 that she didn't know who killed Ian and wished she knew who did? Or am I thinking of something else entirely? I know she said that about something and I think it was about Ian, but I could be horribly wrong. Also, we don't see Ezra spy on the girls at the end of the episode until after they've talked to Grunwald and have wandered away from A's lair entirely (they're walking down the street by that clothing shop when we see him watching them). So either he just knew where A's lair was and ducked out to check on it (Ezra is one of the As), or he'd been tailing them the entire evening and only circled back to look at the lair after he watched them go into the shop (Ezra is not one of the As and is just being creepo/stalkery/"protective"). I still think Wren's the ultimate big bad, at least as it relates to Alison, and the "World War A" could indicate that the other As (Mona, Shana, Jenna) are pushing back against him and trying to get him caught by the girls, maybe because they don't feel safe anymore with him running around. Cece (or whoever) did attack Jenna at that party and Mona was like, "I don't trust you anymore," to Wren while she was in Radley.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:13
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As long as they don't immediately Toby it up with Ezra in this episode (like, "Oh he was just being super protective/stalkery of Aria! He's not REALLY a bad guy!"), I think I'll be satisfied.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:08
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Aphra Bane posted:Dang. I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up thinking they would confirm/deny Ezra as A. At least they didn't outright deny it, I guess. Wren was having all his poo poo sent to Melissa in London but I don't think he himself has hosed off out of country yet (or at least he hasn't been shown to be 'out of country' but on this show, not being in an episode means you're probably in Europe somewhere). From Grunwald's comment, though, it seems like it really only CAN be Wren or Ezra at this point. Wren's still sketchy as gently caress, of course, even if he wasn't the one who tried to kill Alison outright. I thought the pregnancy bit was a false alarm? I mean, not that I would put it past Alison to fleece someone for cash dollars on a lie if she thought she could get away with it. Or maybe she was lying to Ezra/his mom about being pregnant and then the 'truth' she told him that night (since I think she also says in the Hanna hospital scene that she was killed for telling the truth and you should always lie your loving face off instead) is that she wasn't pregnant and had been loving with him/them this whole time? Maybe the whole point of that extended Aria/Maggie/Ezra/Malcolm stuff is that Ezra takes being lied to very, very poorly once he finds out the truth. Someone put an APB out on Maggie and Malcolm!
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Oct 23, 2013 15:12
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Autonomous Monster posted:She also says that the truth is worthless, and that lies are always better- she might just be telling them to let it go. I always thought the way she phrased that was odd, though- "a big shiny disco ball of purity"? Why bring up purity there? Scene's 01x11, if anyone wants to check it out. There were two, I think, in the back half of season 3 - one with Aria (when Meredith was poisoning her) and one with Spencer while she was in Radley. Emily might have had one as well at some point but I can't remember. Hanna's in the hospital in S1 was definitely the first though. quote:Of course, all of this requires The Grunwald to have actual psychic powers*, and I don't think this show has quite crossed that line, yet. I'm taking her at face value 'cause she's a Ravenswoodite and apparently Ravenswood is the land of supernatural with ghosts and reincarnation and curses and poo poo.
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Oct 24, 2013 01:50
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Lawlicaust posted:I was interested in her story before I realized that they were just spinning her off. I wouldn't bother with Ravenswood. The pilot was really, really bad. It's pretty much the opposite of Pretty Little Liars in terms of pacing so far. I was really hoping that it go an even more batshit and supernatural route with the story (like the weirder Twin Peaks stuff) but it just seems like a really boring and slow Dark Shadows or Vampire Diaries without any of the things that make either of those fun. And Caleb just isn't that interesting of a character to base a whole show around. I will be really surprised if it lasts a season. It doesn't have to do that well in order to last on ABC Family, anyway! It didn't have complete retention from PLL's episode but it fared better in #s than other shows that have had PLL as a lead-in.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:03
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I'm pretty much satisfied with PLL as long as Spencer is doing weird/crazy poo poo (and/or dropping GoT references without batting an eyelash), Hanna is being sarcastic, and Emily is yelling at someone.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:10
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TurnipFritter posted:Yeah, the pilot for Ravenswood wasn't so hot. When PLL took a field trip there, you know, it was all weird and had a washed out filter and spooky, but the prevalence of, well, normalcy in the actual show sort of kills it. Maybe if the show had been focused only on Caleb and Girl Caleb exploring this hosed up town it would have worked, but instead you have all these other perfectly normal teens in their perfectly normal homes living perfectly normal lives. You either get to have creepy ancient mansions where the ceiling leaks blood and parties are held in the cemetery, or you get to have homecoming parades and designer kitchens taken directly out of magazines. Hell, Jenna and Toby's house is more Ravenswoody than the Wonder Sibling's. I haven't watched the pilot yet but this is real sad. Should be more "AHS for Teens" and less just "teens, occasionally something spooky"!
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Oct 24, 2013 02:29
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I think they've logistically run out of guys that could be Board Shorts besides Wren and Ezra. Wilden's dead. Ian's dead. Garrett's dead. Cousin Nate/Lyndon's dead. Jason is...somewhere. (And it'd be kind of real weird if he was Board Shorts, and even this show would probably steer clear of blood-relation incest.) Caleb's off helming another tv show. Toby's already had his A-team fake-out storyline. Jake will probably disappear now that Aria's back-ish with Ezra. Both Wren and Ezra are creeper enough that it wouldn't be a stretch to think they'd be involved somehow with a 15-year-old girl. Ezra's had 3+ seasons of mooneyed romance with Aria and Wren's chased both Spencer and Hanna, after all. The bigger mystery now for me is just what the gently caress Mona's up to if she isn't aligned with Ezra/CeCe.
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Jan 7, 2014 01:06
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TurnipFritter posted:I truly and sincerely hope it is not a fakeout. It's always possible that it's a fakeout, but I don't think they'd pull the Toby string twice in back to back seasons. Ezra sets up almost perfectly to be the ultimate "guy who tried to kill Alison on That Night". It'd be weird to figure this season ending in April-ish without a real verbal confirmation on the 'who tried to kill Alison' front, and that has to be Ezra or Wren or someone tied to them. Ezra being A/A-adjacent paints everything about his relationship with Aria in an even more disturbing light (eg. if he knew Alison pre-show and had also possibly/probably hooked up with her, he might have known about Aria/Spencer/Hanna/Emily since they were her best friends besides CeCe, thus would know that Aria was definitely a high-school student when they met for the first time in that restaurant). And besides Ezra/Wren, you still have floating out there: CeCe (seemingly tied to the Alison murderer), Mona, Jenna, Shana, Melissa, even those weird carpenter guys who knew Emily's name back in S3. (I can't wait to do a full series rewatch after the S4 finale so I can hunt for clues like Spencer.)
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Jan 7, 2014 07:02
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I would rather watch 500000 Mona vs Fitz scenes than even one more line of dialogue about Toby's mother. Also please someone do something with Toby's hair. It looks even more helmety than before.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:01
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TurnipFritter posted:ABCFamily has jumped on the "prove you have cable or wait until next week to stream it" bandwagon, so I guess I'll see y'all next week. You know, when you're all busy discussing what happens on next week's episode. At some point we will move past the notion of having to pay separate/additional fees to have both internet and (basic) television. Maybe.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:26
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According to I Marlene King on twitter, we get to find out this season who pushed Ian off the bell tower. (All we know is that Mona doesn't know who it was but wishes she did. So probably Ezra, Wren, or Jason.)
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Jan 14, 2014 21:50
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That heavybag... 
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Jan 22, 2014 06:50
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Honestly at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Ezra and that Holbrook guy were college buddies and Holbrook's been helping Ezra this whole time, to where Holbrook was creeping Hanna in this episode while Ezra targeted Emily or something. Also, we're probably 1-2 episodes away from another Spencer breakdown, aren't we?
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Jan 29, 2014 06:08
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I'm glad they seem to be going full steam ahead with Ezra being actually villainous, rather than obfuscating it just enough to make you think maybe he really does have good intentions even if he's being sketchy about it (like Toby).
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Feb 5, 2014 07:27
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Aphra Bane posted:This show It helps that the show lends itself really well to this sort of style. We've had Hitchcock homages before, as well. As goofy-gently caress as PLL gets sometimes, it's real obvious the showrunners really like old-school horror/mystery and try to jam as much of that feel into the episodes as they can while still being effectively a teen drama on ABC Family.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:33
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Yeah, I don't know. Backing out of the Ezra stuff seems like it's be such an obviously gross misstep in plotting that it seems weird that any bunch of writers (short of AHS/Glee) would let it happen. Like, they've doubled down so many times on Ezra being legitimately creepy that going "but he's actually not that bad!" would feel beyond half-assed and fake. But then again, this is still a show that needs to drag this poo poo out at least one more season so it's still probably too early for a full reveal of the ultimate A.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:39
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Yeah I think Hanna was more about, "If you turn him in, you're basically risking exposure of ALL our bullshit," than any pro-Fitz stance. Also, Jessica DiLaurentis creeping in the Hastings house.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:41
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The sad thing about Ezra is that there is a legion of girls who love him and want him and Aria to be true love forever -- even after the initial 'might be A' reveal and before his actual explanation -- and that's their most vocal actual fanbase at the moment. There's probably at least someone somewhere in that writers' room who knows their whole relationship is creepy and gross but they'd be drowned out by half their audience really, really, really, really loving Ezra and Aria together. (Which is also why he's prrrrrobably not going to be actually dead come next season!)
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Mar 19, 2014 14:56
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Apex Rogers posted:A bit of speculation regarding the night Alison disappeared: It had to be Jason who hit Ali with the rock. Who else would Mrs. D cover for like she did? I don't think that necessarily means he is A, I actually have no clue who A is, but it has to be Jason who thwacked her, right? That's my thinking. (more speculation!) Jason was probably stoned/drugged out of his gourd, and they'd established seasons ago that he and Alison had an antagonistic relationship, so he conked her with a rock for some reason or other. Mrs. D saw, then buried Alison and shuffled Jason off to rehab. Although, even though Alison says that Spencer definitely didn't try to kill her because she was asleep when Alison went a-wandering again, Spencer was still awake before all the other girls long enough to go searching for Alison and find her missing. I almost hope she actually did kill the girl who was actually buried, and Melissa covered that poo poo up. Else, Melissa killed the other girl but it'd be impossible to say why without knowing who said other girl even is. (book spoilers) It could be the Alison-twin that exists in the books, the body under the gazebo, and whoever killed her thought she was Alison. Also Rosewood apparently employs the laziest coroner/doctor staff ever if they didn't at all catch that the body/skeleton they exhumed from under the gazebo wasn't Alison.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:10
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He probably pretended to kill her because Alison had been threatening Jenna with revealing her grabbyhands all over Toby. Garrett pretends to kill (or at least hurt) Ali, Jenna feels safe enough to be home and out in the open again. She later finds out that Ali is actually "dead" and at the end of season 2 fingers Garrett for her murder (presumably because she stops feeling safe or something). Edit: And pregnancy scare is probably Wilden or Wren; aside from Ezra, both of them are gross enough to probably do it (especially Wren). If it's Wilden, it's basically already resolved because Wilden's dead. If it's Wren, he'll probably turn back up in S5, especially with Melissa home from London. xeria fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 19:07
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TurnipFritter posted:That's what they were saying once upon a time, I think, but apparently they've been dropping a lot of hints in the last couple of episodes that they're going in that direction. Alison's actress, as recently as just after the S4 fall finale or so, said in an interview that she didn't think (book spoilers) they were going the 'Alison has a twin' route, or at the very least if they were, it wasn't going to path out like the books did. It's just a very narrow pool of "people who would actually take a swing at Alison" and "people who Mrs. D would give enough of a poo poo about to cover up". And the actual body under the gazebo is someone who's been dead since about 5 minutes into the show, so there's probably a teeny, tiny list of people (like, 1) who that could be and have it actually be material to the current timeline. (That 1 probably being an Alison twin or just someone who looked really, really similar to her, because it'd mean that whoever killed her actually intended to kill Alison for real.)
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Mar 21, 2014 07:01
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Yeah it's pretty much because half the fanbase at least thinks Ezra is hyper-romantic and that Aria should immediately forgive him so they can go back to wearing paper bags around town. It's polarizing that way; I know plenty of people who won't even so much as glance at the show because they find the concept of a teacher being in love with his teenage student (rightly) creepy and gross. (In the books, IIRC, Aria hooks up with Ezra but he's never much more than a rando dude beyond that.) So in terms of outstanding mysteries, we still have the following, right? * Who's the dead girl that got buried in Alison's grave? * Also, who killed her in the first place and why? * Who attacked Alison? * Who killed Alison's mom? And in addition to that: * What the gently caress is/was Wren up to when he was being all weird to Mona in Radley and getting Spencer's mom thrown off Hanna's mom's case? * What's Melissa's actual deal? If I had to guess, especially after having watched the PLL episode of The Writers' Room where they said they know how the series will end but they're basically dragging things out as long as ABC Family keeps renewing them, we probably won't find out who actually tried to kill Alison until whatever the final season will be, since aside from "Who is A?" that's been the central mystery all along.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:52
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TurnipFritter posted:So is Ezra not writing his book anymore? I was really hoping he'd include a chapter about how the teenager he was loving had to buy him groceries because he was so poor. I think the book is 'done' but he's not going to publish it out of 'respect' for Aria/her friends. Unrelated, but after reading a Gawker/'Morning After' article, now I think I'm most anticipating the show diving head-first into the Mona/Hanna/Alison relationship(s). I hadn't even remembered before now that Mona's initial reasoning for being A all over the girls was because they were pulling Hanna out of her orbit, and with the revelations that Mona both chased Alison into hiding and remade Hanna in Alison's image, there has been some freaky poo poo at play with Miss Vanderwaal. (Mona is the best and most interesting character on this show, hands down.)
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Jul 3, 2014 02:54
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God dammit, I was so hopeful for a hot second that they'd kill off Toby. But no. Mona was too good for their dumb bullshit anyway. 
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Aug 27, 2014 05:07
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Aphra Bane posted:Goddamit Well, it sounded like they just name-dropped what sounded like a sister toward the end of the episode so maybe (book-related spoilers) Mona's the one with the twin and not Alison!
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Aug 27, 2014 15:05
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Cool fakeout though.