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Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



Jordan7hm posted:

I played it a bunch during their free week earlier in the year, and I had a blast. It's not feature complete, but it's pretty drat playable. They're a pretty bad example of developers getting lost during the development process though. They had a lot of buzz back in the day, but given how long this has taken them, they just weren't able to capitalize on it. I think they may have missed their chance to really succeed as a commercial game.

Yeah, Desktop Dungeons is very playable and they have finally implemented limited keyboard movement (the biggest step back in the transition from alpha to beta was loss of numpad movement and the developers have been inexplicably stubborn in their refusal to re-implement it, since "mouse control is better").

Honestly I just play the alpha still, it's a lot of fun, free, and has numpad movement, while the beta...is only one of those things.

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Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!

Fun Shoe

Anticheese posted:

Yeah, it sure is an awesome goon-made game that'll be receiving updates when someone finishes up a commercial project that may appear in this thread at a later date.

Hey, look I found some screenshots of some new tile sets in a mysterious goon's possession.


Potsticker
Jan 13, 2006



On the topic of phone roguelikes, what are peoples' opinions on control schemes? I got some guff about using on-screen buttons for 2419RL, so this year I went with swiping for SkullDorado, but that ended up being fairly annoying when the player had to traverse a large area witb nothing interesring going on. Hoplite used a tap where you want to go scheme and that seems like it was pretty popular, though the entire map was on screen at all times, and you were allowed to move to any space instantly when there was no enemies left on the map.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012


Hey guys I know what we should do, let's argue about the definition of roguelikes

But for serious, I'm a bit burned out in games that require loads of studying after playing EVE. What's a recommended roguelike that doesn't require a huge time commitment to even try to play? I'm craving something tough but relatively accessible. (and Nethack isn't quite cutting it )

Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



You probably would enjoy Tales of Maj'eyal. It's tough to finish without knowing a lot about the game, but most classes are quite accessible and the interface is friendly.

Edit: I am assuming you mean time commitment to learn enough to not instantly die, rather than the actual length of the game. ToME IS really long, but I don't think it takes much effort to learn the basics.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2013 around 14:18

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006



Famethrowa posted:

But for serious, I'm a bit burned out in games that require loads of studying after playing EVE. What's a recommended roguelike that doesn't require a huge time commitment to even try to play? I'm craving something tough but relatively accessible. (and Nethack isn't quite cutting it )
I definitely would not recommend ToMe as it still requires a decent time commitment. DoomRL fits the bill nicely, as you can finish the entire game in about 2 hours, and it's very easy to get started. It's Doom, so just shoot poo poo and dodge.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

If you're talking about "games that are easy and quick to get into", ToME would still fit and I'd still recommend it - between its interface and game modes like adventure ToME is arguably the most purely accessible of the current major roguelikes, its problem is mainly that it is incredibly long and while a recent patch has helped some of the monotony of the early game by introducing alternate starter dungeons, the second half can still be a bit of a slog (but I still can't get to the second half of the game consistently so this may not be a problem for a newbie for some time.)

Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2013 around 14:14

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Famethrowa posted:

Hey guys I know what we should do, let's argue about the definition of roguelikes

But for serious, I'm a bit burned out in games that require loads of studying after playing EVE. What's a recommended roguelike that doesn't require a huge time commitment to even try to play? I'm craving something tough but relatively accessible. (and Nethack isn't quite cutting it )

Crawl has an excellent tutorial and the community is generally extremely helpful.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Jan 1, 1970

I WILL MEDITATE AND THEN DESTROY YOU


Cybernetic Crumb

Yeah Crawl is pretty easy to get in to, just don't expect to win if you aren't playing a lot/figuring stuff out. I would just go with that for now if all you've played is Nethack. Crawl looks like Nethack on the surface, the main difference being that it is fun.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011


When I first started playing ToME it was a huge turn-off to have to spend ~5-10 minutes reading the descriptions of each ability for my character then deciding which was the best, etc. etc. It's a great game, but starting a new and unknown character class is pretty tedious and I wish they'd implement a "Beginners mode" that just highlights a good choice to take each level.

e: and yes, I know the problems inherit in this solution.

WaterIsPoison
Nov 5, 2009


Famethrowa posted:

Hey guys I know what we should do, let's argue about the definition of roguelikes

But for serious, I'm a bit burned out in games that require loads of studying after playing EVE. What's a recommended roguelike that doesn't require a huge time commitment to even try to play? I'm craving something tough but relatively accessible. (and Nethack isn't quite cutting it )

Brogue. Seriously, just play Brogue. It even has an awesome tile version. http://oryxdesignlab.com/brogue-tiles/

quiggy
Aug 7, 2010

[in Russian] Oof.




Brogue is fun and all but I'm not sure I've ever played a game of it that didn't just end with me on fire.

WaterIsPoison
Nov 5, 2009


quiggy posted:

Brogue is fun and all but I'm not sure I've ever played a game of it that didn't just end with me on fire.

I fail to see the problem here.

quiggy
Aug 7, 2010

[in Russian] Oof.




WaterIsPoison posted:

I fail to see the problem here.

Sometimes I'd like to dissolve in acid or be murdered by an out-of-depth monster thank you very much

quiggy fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2013 around 15:54

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010



Soiled Meat

Mylan posted:

Yeah, enjoyed that game years ago. Is Transcendence still in development? I checked out the web site and the download linked version appears to be way out of date with the latest version they mention in the forum.

I think it's in "development" the same way almost all these roguelikes are- complete enough to play and enjoy but getting new stuff from the creator(s) at a very slow pace.

Pladdicus
Aug 13, 2010


I love roguelikes, they're pretty much my favorite genre. I first started with the original rogue when I was like, ten, it was hosted on this lovely flash game website and from there my next love was ADOM, which I've still yet to beat. After that I stumbled upon the massive world of roguelikes, from the older tome(and the dragon ball z module that came available with it) to DoomRL(My first win, and first 'perfect' win, at least on normal)

Then I found the rogue temple and moved on to a plethora of tinny and smaller 'roguelike' games. Spelunky is one of my favorites, along with Rogue Survivor which is a fantastic zombie game.

Is it cool to do write ups for the lesser known and smaller titles for the OP?

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Jan 1, 1970

I WILL MEDITATE AND THEN DESTROY YOU


Cybernetic Crumb

Pladdicus posted:

Is it cool to do write ups for the lesser known and smaller titles for the OP?

I'm not the OP but no one is going to say it is not cool for you to do work to make the thread better.

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

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Brogue, DoomRL, and pooooossibly Crawl would probably all count as relatively simple to get into. DoomRL is probably on top of the pile here for being insanely accessible like Brogue is, but also having a really neat interface, music, tileset, etc. etc. and a level of depth that is amazing for such a short game.

I can't really think of others, to be honest. These things are all ones people have recommended previously and they're pretty much on top.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Jan 1, 1970

I WILL MEDITATE AND THEN DESTROY YOU


Cybernetic Crumb

Agent Kool-Aid posted:

Brogue, DoomRL, and pooooossibly Crawl would probably all count as relatively simple to get into. DoomRL is probably on top of the pile here for being insanely accessible like Brogue is, but also having a really neat interface, music, tileset, etc. etc. and a level of depth that is amazing for such a short game.

I can't really think of others, to be honest. These things are all ones people have recommended previously and they're pretty much on top.

Yeah it depends on if you want a "big game" or a "small game", as I'll call them. I'm talking in terms of the number of mechanics in play at any one time. Brogue and DoomRL are small games, they are short in length and there aren't too many things to learn about. Crawl is approachable and you can play and have fun quickly, but it is certainly a big game, and there is plenty of stuff that one can ignore at first but will want to learn later.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011

MENS REA? LOL MORE LIKE CHRIS REA AM I RITE

Lipstick Apathy

Please do write ups! I haven't played a bunch of these games, so if you like a game your writeup will almost certainly be a better sell job for the game than mine will.

Don't worry about looking for stuff like LPs if you don't want to. I can do that.

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006



Jordan7hm posted:

Please do write ups! I haven't played a bunch of these games, so if you like a game your writeup will almost certainly be a better sell job for the game than mine will.

Don't worry about looking for stuff like LPs if you don't want to. I can do that.

Great job handling the OP and keep us updated in the thread whenever you make any changes

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012


I care less about length and more about accessibility. Best non-roguelike example I have is Hotline Miami. The controls are easy to pick up, but you die constantly, and there is loads of depth to the combos you can execute.

Thanks for the suggestions. Might download Doom and ToME to try.

EvilMike
Dec 6, 2004



If you want an accessible, streamlined roguelike, you could start with Rogue. There's a port called ClassicRogue which adds some basic sound effects and graphics, and some other conveniences. It's a short game, there's not a ton of stuff to memorize, etc. The controls aren't as streamlined as some games, but the number of actual commands is quite small. The trickiest part is learning how to identify items, but the system isn't nearly as byzantine as Nethack.

DoomRL is also a good choice, but it's very non-traditional since it's based almost completely around ranged combat. Every other RL tends to emphasize melee a lot more.

ToME has good mouse support, but it's a very complex game. You'll be able to control it, but you'll have no idea what's going on - it's the sort of game that throws tons of numbers at you constantly. And you need to learn what those numbers mean in order to play well. So I don't recommend it if you want something simple.

Brogue is probably the best choice for a more standard, but modern and very polished roguelike.

All the games I'm recommending are fairly short ones. Most roguelikes are relatively short games, though (including Rogue and most of the other really early ones). It was mostly the "second generation" games like nethack, angband, adom, and crawl which tended to be massive. Newer roguelikes are usually shorter and more focused.

EvilMike fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2013 around 20:46

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012


EvilMike posted:

If you want an accessible, streamlined roguelike, you could start with Rogue. There's a port called ClassicRogue which adds some basic sound effects and graphics, and some other conveniences. It's a short game, there's not a ton of stuff to memorize, etc. The controls aren't as streamlined as some games, but the number of actual commands is quite small. The trickiest part is learning how to identify items, but the system isn't nearly as byzantine as Nethack.


Problem is I've already beat it at least once if not twice ( ) I just keep losing focus with all the control options in Nethack.

Famethrowa fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2013 around 21:01

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Jan 1, 1970

I WILL MEDITATE AND THEN DESTROY YOU


Cybernetic Crumb

I think Brogue probably fits the bill the best. (Nethack being the worst if you don't count things like IVAN.)

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Holy poo poo the food clock in the original rogue is absolutely brutal.

illectro
Mar 29, 2010

ROCKET SCIENCE

Hullo, I'm Scoot Moonbucks.
Please stop being surprised by this.


I was horrified when I saw some kid on the internet attributing 'roguelike' to some generic (MMO)RPG character class, so I made this little video explaining the history of the original rogue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxF1osPkplA

Jenx
Oct 17, 2012

I used to be a duck once. Also, I draw pictures.

Could it be that the kid literally meant that the class was "like a rogue"?

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012


Jeffrey posted:

I think Brogue probably fits the bill the best. (Nethack being the worst if you don't count things like IVAN.)

Hah. I found IVAN to be fun in that impossibly hard way. Getting your arm torn off, grabbing it with the other, and beating the creature to death with it before dying of bloodloss is amusing as hell.

Edit: I also forgot about this zombie rogue survival game I played. That was easy enough to control, just slightly buggy and difficult. I should go back to it.

Famethrowa fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2013 around 21:39

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

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Pro IVAN strats involve running over glass shards until your legs fall off so you can pray for better ones. Straightforward it ain't. Funnily enough, the basic ending isn't impossible to get or anything, but you more or less have to entirely game the system.

Ashenai
Oct 5, 2005

You taught me language;
and my profit on't
Is, I know how to curse.

Agent Kool-Aid posted:

Pro IVAN strats involve running over glass shards until your legs fall off so you can pray for better ones. Straightforward it ain't. Funnily enough, the basic ending isn't impossible to get or anything, but you more or less have to entirely game the system.

I'm still bitter about the one time I got awesome limbs and then Ischaldirh showed up on level 2 of the dungeon.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011

MENS REA? LOL MORE LIKE CHRIS REA AM I RITE

Lipstick Apathy

Lawman 0 posted:

Holy poo poo the food clock in the original rogue is absolutely brutal.

It doesn't seem that bad.

Is it normal to be stuck in a level without stairs down though? I've search every wall repeatedly for traps and I'm at a loss what to do.

Also, is Classic Rogue really exactly the same as Rogue?

(I updated the OP with Dungeonmans and AliensRL.)

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Ashenai posted:

I'm still bitter about the one time I got awesome limbs and then Ischaldirh showed up on level 2 of the dungeon.
Unlike most roguelikes, this might actually be a direct cause:effect relationship. Having better stats/gear/etc will make more difficult things spawn.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.


Jordan7hm posted:

It doesn't seem that bad.

Is it normal to be stuck in a level without stairs down though? I've search every wall repeatedly for traps and I'm at a loss what to do.

There are always exactly nine rooms on every level in an approximate 3 by 3 grid pattern, hth.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Risk of rain gets kinda hilarious on the 4th loop. Bosses spawn faster than I can kill them and eventually the game just crashes. Gamemaker .

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect


Famethrowa posted:

I care less about length and more about accessibility. Best non-roguelike example I have is Hotline Miami. The controls are easy to pick up, but you die constantly, and there is loads of depth to the combos you can execute.

Thanks for the suggestions. Might download Doom and ToME to try.

Length should really be a consideration for someone new getting into roguelikes, some of them are really loving long. For most of the long ones, the middle part of the game consists of just keeping concentration over many hours and not making a silly mistake.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010

Niles Hokkanen's Pocket Guide to Mandolin Chords is hands-down the best mandolin chordbook you can buy, and a damn steal at less than the cost of a decent pint. It doesn't just show you the chords, it actually explains the concepts behind them.

Uncle Jam posted:

Length should really be a consideration for someone new getting into roguelikes, some of them are really loving long. For most of the long ones, the middle part of the game consists of just keeping concentration over many hours and not making a silly mistake.

I've been playing Nethack on and off for over 15 years now... I'll ascend some day!

Big Sean
Jan 17, 2010


Zereth posted:

Unlike most roguelikes, this might actually be a direct cause:effect relationship. Having better stats/gear/etc will make more difficult things spawn.

Its been while since I played, but I think he appears after ~400 hp. Some awesome things in ivan are actually awesome (diamond flaming swords), some awesome things in ivan are actually horrific death traps (metal limbs).

Kind of feeling like doing another run...

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012


Uncle Jam posted:

Length should really be a consideration for someone new getting into roguelikes, some of them are really loving long. For most of the long ones, the middle part of the game consists of just keeping concentration over many hours and not making a silly mistake.

I'm pretty experienced with roguelikes, I'm just super burned out heh

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EvilMike
Dec 6, 2004



Jordan7hm posted:

It doesn't seem that bad.

Is it normal to be stuck in a level without stairs down though? I've search every wall repeatedly for traps and I'm at a loss what to do.

Also, is Classic Rogue really exactly the same as Rogue?

(I updated the OP with Dungeonmans and AliensRL.)

Every level has stairs but a lot have them hidden behind secret doors. The level builder follows a 3x3 grid pattern, rooms are sometimes replaced by more corridors or mazes. A wall can only have a single door, so you can get a sense of where to search.

Rogue had a ton of different versions. ClassicRogue is based on the PC version from the 80's, but it has a bunch of quality of life improvements. The unix version of the game tends to be a bit different, since it's based on an open source implementation of it. On windows you can play it as Rogue Clone IV. Biggest difference is no dark rooms and a simpler id system.

Finally, if you want to play the "authentic" version you could try one of the builds hosted at the Roguelike restoration project, but I think this is mainly for historical curiosity. The versions here will feel rather crude - no support for colour or anything like that.

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