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Fascinating stuff Skoolmunkee, though I'll point out that Lin Chen and his wife are not the first Chinese we've seen in Columbia. There was at least one prisoner in one of the police stations we visited who told us to piss off and called us Gwailo. And I suspect there's been at least one other, although always in the background of things. Chinese labor, like that of Blacks or Irish, would have some value to Columbia, particularly skilled labor. After all, one group of subhuman wage-slaves who must be watched is as good as another in most of Columbia's eyes, I would guess. Oh, and Re: Columbia the female angel, most angels are indeed portrayed as male (or occasionally as androgynes), but the one big exception seems to be for national-personifications. The classical Greek portrayals of Europa, Asia, and Africa as three women (partly buttressed by Herodotus' analysis of the Trojan and Persian wars having as root cause an endless cycle of intercontinental wife-stealing), made it through to the renaissance and the growth of national identities. As such, many nations portray their national angelic figures as those representing "The Motherland". For example, the French incarnation of "Liberté", which was adopted by the US as "Lady Liberty", (see the Statue of), or the Russian "Mother Russia", as displayed today in the Stalingrad Monument. Guys like Uncle Sam, while national emblems, really represent the body politic as opposed to the "spirit of the nation", which more commonly appears as a woman in most of the cases I'm aware of. John Bull, for instance, is a man, but Britannia is a woman, generally girded as Athena, watching over her people in benevolence. This would appear to be the image that Comstock has lifted for Columbia, and turning her into a literal angel is only a small change.
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 02:36 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 04:38 |
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America was personified as the female figure Columbia well before Comstock came around. (Something particularly interesting in that article is a cartoon depicting Columbia protecting a Chinese worker in 1871).
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 07:04 |
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skoolmunkee posted:It's a shame Sundowner didn't wait long enough to listen to the auction at the beginning of Finkton. I wouldn't describe it as "pawning off their hours"- if you listen to it, iirc, what's happening is that the auctioneer is actually taking lower and lower bids from workers- where the workers are underbidding each other just to get any kind of pay. I think they're saying who will do the job in the shortest amount of time.
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 07:47 |
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Kangra posted:America was personified as the female figure Columbia well before Comstock came around. (Something particularly interesting in that article is a cartoon depicting Columbia protecting a Chinese worker in 1871). Yep! I just wanted to explain to anyone who didn't know that comstock didn't invent her. what comstock did was start referring to her not as a national figure but as a religious one. As GenHavok said, not a huge change but an important one, one which goes along with the founding fathers worship. (Thanks for the edit btw)
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 08:43 |
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Kangra posted:Possibly there is something meaningful about Columbia avoiding the West Coast and having an apparently important role in the Boxer Rebellion that is specifically related to their (or Comstock's) views on the Chinese. It does seem odd that even in Finkton Lin would be advertising with his name like that, though. You'd expect him to just say 'Gunsmith' but perhaps he's using it to filter out people who don't want to deal with him because he's Chinese. Lin is probably an idealist who thought his work would count for more then his last name in columbia. The Bioshock series are filled with people coming to a place they think will give them a fair shake but doesn't.
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 10:04 |
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citybeatnik posted:Having played the game, that's exactly what they're doing - bidding on who can do the backbreaking job of hauling that thing in the shortest amount of time, ergo for less pay. They get more desperate as things go along if I recall properly. Yes - to the point that a fight breaks out when someone gets underbid, and after one of the dudes beats the other one unconscious, Fink praises him and gives him the job. "Now that's the kind of go-getter attitude Finkton workers should have!"
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 15:15 |
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I was convinced in my head that I showed that off, so much that I didn't even consider checking while editing. God drat it this is why I wish game developers would stop horsing around and give us poor Let's Players a proper save system, so I can go back and fix my incompetencies. I guess that is at the start of a new area so I might get lucky by loading chapters to get there, there isn't a whole lot to replay if I do go back.
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 20:16 |
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Heading in to the Good Time Club, Booker and Elizabeth attempt to seek out Chen Lin but not before Fink has an offer for Booker to consider.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 20:05 |
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Ah, yes. This is the update that for good and all proves that this is, very much, a Bioshock game. I look forward to seeing the reactions. One thing that leaped out at me is the audio by Comstock on cruelty. It illustrates a point that a lot of religious fundamentalists have no trouble balancing in their minds a god that is all loving and a god that would, say, ask a faithful man to slaughter his son. The god of the Old Testament and the New one seem to me to be almost two separate beings: the jealous and cruel monster in the former, and the compassionate one that Jesus Christ spoke of in the latter. That is likely no accident, since all of these texts were written by several people, probably over centuries, and it serves as an interesting study about shifting societal mores (the idea that bad things happen through judgement of the wicked/ trying to teach the right way to people emerging from the idea that poo poo happens because that's the way it is, to name but one). Consequently, the Bible contradicts itself every other book and chapter, and ol' Comstock here shows us a way to address those contradictions. He takes both bad and good, cruelty and kindness... the good for the righteous (himself), and the bad for the wicked (everyone else). In accepting the contradicting cruelty of the LORD, we absolve ourselves of all our cruelties and contradictions. And it is good, brother.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 22:43 |
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When I was playing the game for the first time, I had assumed the reason for the thimble finger was that (the?) Songbird bit it off or something. Not sure why I thought that, maybe I read it at some point during the preview stage then forgot.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 22:51 |
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ah. The people remembering their deaths in an alternate universe reminds me a lot of Fringe. Something similar happened in the show, where a town of people started going insane because they were merging with their alternate universe selves. Also, I can't help but wonder if there's another Booker and Elizabeth in this reality. My guess would be this world's Booker is dead, and in it Elizabeth was never conceived, or died in childbirth, but who knows?
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 00:56 |
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 01:07 |
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Is there an easy way to tell the Columbias apart, or are you truly stuck in this version of it with no hope of return? (Don't answer that spoilery last part.) I often have a hard time knowing where I am in parallel-world games.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 01:23 |
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Hirayuki posted:Is there an easy way to tell the Columbias apart, or are you truly stuck in this version of it with no hope of return? (Don't answer that spoilery last part.) I often have a hard time knowing where I am in parallel-world games. At various points the Games threads have exploded with people trying to make sense of things, so I'd recommend you just do like Mystery Science Theater. Repeat to yourself it's just a game and relax. They don't do any "slipped back into Universe A without noticing" kind of thing, it's all up front.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 01:27 |
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Bruceski posted:They don't do any "slipped back into Universe A without noticing" kind of thing, it's all up front.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 01:39 |
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Hirayuki posted:and you can switch between them at will You will know when they switch worlds. It's very obvious, ala this case.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 01:41 |
That was a super cool update. I like how they handled the alternate versions of dead people and their inability to cope with it. And we got to see the awesome couple that was talking about coins / perspective. I really like Booker and Elizabeth for their own reasons, of course, but those two are pretty cool characters.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 02:14 |
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Huh, in that last fight I think we were hearing a new message from Fink. I only caught the last bit, but it sounded slightly more friendly towards Chinese workers (in the sense that they are a necessary evil instead of totally expendable).
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 02:31 |
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Ashsaber posted:Huh, in that last fight I think we were hearing a new message from Fink. I only caught the last bit, but it sounded slightly more friendly towards Chinese workers (in the sense that they are a necessary evil instead of totally expendable). No, it's the same "be happy in your place" crap. He mentions the Chinese workers on the Transcontinental Railroad as one example of how minorities really do serve an important role, because somebody's got to supply the labor. The last sentence that got cut off in the fighting was "History was built on the backs of men like you". A couple more things while I'm here: That first empty cell with the hand cannon in it? If you let Slate live back in the museum, you'll find him there, and he's catatonic from having been worked over. You have a second chance to shoot him if you like. If you're paying attention to the dates on the Voxophones, you'll see that Cpl. Monroe's, and quite a few of Comstock's, are a day old at most when you find them. We're watching character progression in real time as people respond to Booker and Elizabeth's actions. It's a neat reminder of how much more alive this place is than Rapture.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 03:05 |
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GenHavoc posted:
Elizabeth's sleeve was torn (and her neck scarf undone) since they landed on the beach after the Songbird attack.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 03:20 |
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Thunk posted:If you're paying attention to the dates on the Voxophones, you'll see that Cpl. Monroe's, and quite a few of Comstock's, are a day old at most when you find them. We're watching character progression in real time as people respond to Booker and Elizabeth's actions. It's a neat reminder of how much more alive this place is than Rapture. A similar example that I love is in Dead Space 1. One of the audio log series you can find is of another engineer who is basically one step ahead of you in the Ishimura until a certain level. Basically it makes it feel like you aren't alone in this gameworld. And I can't recall exactly, but I remember some game in which you are walking down a corridor, hearing somebody talking into a recorder, but then you interrupt them and in their scramble to escape they drop it, letting you hear their dialogue again.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 03:22 |
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GenHavoc posted:
The voxophone doesn't explicitly say that Fink's brother is the reason for the anachronisms, just that he's been hearing them for a while and clued his brother in. The first time we meet Mrs. Lin, she's pretty clearly Asian, with her broken English and shrine to Buddha. Then they enter the alternate universe and she's a white lady.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 03:24 |
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:Elizabeth's sleeve was torn (and her neck scarf undone) since they landed on the beach after the Songbird attack. Nah mate, her clothes get damaged between the point where she knocked Booker out and the time where he finds her again in Finkton.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 04:34 |
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DukeofCA posted:The voxophone doesn't explicitly say that Fink's brother is the reason for the anachronisms, just that he's been hearing them for a while and clued his brother in. I think the idea is that he hears the music from the tears, and then turns them into the olde timey versions on the beach, sung by the quartet, etc.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 05:18 |
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I'll admit, the further in to the game you go the stronger the "YOU DID IT" vibe becomes. Looking forward to how people with fresh eyes react to some of the stuff to come.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 08:38 |
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Gruckles posted:I think the idea is that he hears the music from the tears, and then turns them into the olde timey versions on the beach, sung by the quartet, etc. If he'd heard any dubstep, he'd have dismissed it as noise. So far I'm loving the LP. I just caught wind of it this weekend so I've been marathoning the episodes to get up to speed this afternoon. I've never played the game, but I have a bunch of ideas on what it is all leading towards. I don't want to dabble in the area of spoilers, but I'm enjoying many of GenHavoc's wildly unsupported theories. The game seems to have put a great deal of significance into the first few minutes of gameplay, but I can't say for sure what exactly it all means. Reviewing the first episode of this LP, it seems that Booker doesn't fear God as much as he fears Elizabeth, but so far she only seems really dangerous when you put her near a wrench and tell her she can't go to Paris.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 09:01 |
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Doctor_Blueninja posted:Nah mate, her clothes get damaged between the point where she knocked Booker out and the time where he finds her again in Finkton. Look what I get for trying to remember things more than two weeks in the past. You're right, her clothes were all messed up by the Finkton cops.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 14:41 |
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Brainamp posted:
Bioshock 2 does exactly this with Mark Meltzer. Poor bastard's just looking for his daughter, and he's one step ahead of Delta the whole way.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 14:53 |
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Great rendition of one of my favorite songs should coming up in the next video!
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 14:55 |
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Green Intern posted:Bioshock 2 does exactly this with Mark Meltzer. Poor bastard's just looking for his daughter, and he's one step ahead of Delta the whole way. Explains why I remember it then. But yeah, when games have all these oddly dropped logs, something that connects them physically to you helps immensely.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 18:10 |
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Gruckles posted:I think the idea is that he hears the music from the tears, and then turns them into the olde timey versions on the beach, sung by the quartet, etc. Aaahh, if that's what he meant then yes, that makes much more sense.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 18:49 |
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So why's it called Bioshock anyway? Of course, firstly because it's part of a franchise, and when that started, the 'Bio' part was, I guess, from the genetic splicing in the first game, and the 'shock' was homage to the System Shock series, of which the first part is old and obscure, but since that's where it all began, the complete etymology must be lost in time. Sounds about right?
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 19:33 |
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Wait a sec. Fink's brother? Checks first video. Yeah, 'Albert Fink presents' God only Knows. Very nice.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 19:43 |
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supermikhail posted:So why's it called Bioshock anyway? The Bio part refers to the organic nature of many of the elements in the first game. The splicers, the ADAM, the plasmids, all that poo poo. The Shock is both a reference to the original System Shock games as well as referring to the dramatic, or shocking if you will, changes all that organic nature underwent in the game. Or at least that's the explanation I've always heard.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 19:45 |
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supermikhail posted:So why's it called Bioshock anyway? I may be wrong, but I read that more as a tongue-in-cheek kind of thing, where it's an established pattern with Bioshock games that seem at first to go for some sort of socio-political commentary angle until about the halfway point, where they just take a wrong turn and dive off a cliff with crazy, moebius strip-worthy plot twisting and forget every theme they were previously covering. EDIT: oh sorry, I thought you were addressing a person who previously said "this is why this a bioshock game".
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 19:45 |
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Bio equals biological super powers, System equals technological super powers, Shock is the intensity of gaining or using those powers. That's about as simple and straight forward an explanation as I can think of. Remember when people thought Bio = Water and were confused why this game was still called Bioshock despite not having an underwater setting? Good times...
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 19:53 |
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Well at the very least, it seems like Booker isn't dead in this universe, else we'd be having nosebleeds and going crazy. Unless being around Elizabeth has some kind of stabilizing effect of sorts? Still, it'd be amusing to run into or see another Booker/Elizabeth pair running around. If Booker never went to Columbia in this world though, there'd be no reason for Comstock to hunt us down. I suppose we're considered escaped convicts right now, what with having come right out of a jail full of confiscated Vox stuff. Speaking of which, you spent some time trying to look through the bars at a pool of yellow...stuff in the jail cells. What exactly was that? Piles of soiled clothes or piles of corpses? GenHavoc posted:
HGH fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 6, 2013 |
# ? Nov 6, 2013 20:07 |
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I don't know how this one is going to turn out, but the Bioshock twist also seems to involve an intentional tweaking of traditional gameplay. The original did it best how much of a role does the player actually have when the plot constrains them?, and the second one is a bit weaker what is the proper role of an NPC and I'm hoping this one does something similar. As for the name itself, the original conception seemed to focus a bit more on the mutations and changes to the bodies of the splicers instead of just effectively giving them superpowers. I think it still makes sense, though. And as long as we're talking about history, the concept of the audio diary filling out the story originates in System Shock and has carried through to all the games (and into others). In my opinion it has the best execution of the idea of arriving just after the recordings were made, too.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 20:10 |
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mortons stork posted:I may be wrong, but I read that more as a tongue-in-cheek kind of thing, where it's an established pattern with Bioshock games that seem at first to go for some sort of socio-political commentary angle until about the halfway point, where they just take a wrong turn and dive off a cliff with crazy, moebius strip-worthy plot twisting and forget every theme they were previously covering. That makes sense. Almost the only plot-related thing I know about the original System Shock is that it had a major twist with Shodan. Although if my experience is any indication, these cool-sounding, non-transparent names usually have a million different considerations affect their choice.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 20:58 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 04:38 |
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So, hang on a second. The only thing that seems to carry over for other characters in the game when switching from the Blue Columbia (based on the background icons of the native weapons, mind you) to the Red one, is if they died in Blue and are still alive in Red. Red Fink had no idea who you were and didn't remember trying to set up a deal... So why on earth would Red Daisy remember or care about a deal that Blue Daisy made to get a weapons shipment in exchange for giving back the First Lady? Why is Booker doing anything more with the gunsmith, other than pity for his half-dead state?
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 21:30 |