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Jinho is playing this a lot like Boston Rob played survivor in the season he won. He has great game skills, because he thinks outside the box e.g. swapping the stacks of sun, moon, star and never betrays anyone, but stays true to his word. He had 3 spies working FOR him, and was always in the winning team. I really hope they will take him out sooner rather then later, because he could just run the table on everyone. Especially because he has a lot of people who WANT to work with him, which works out great in the case of random, production enforced teams.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:42
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There was a very easy way for a majority alliance to win the episode 5 mainmatch, by combining the infinity red chip pump with the idea of making wildcards useless in terms of veto/sign. By making sure that Jinho has the highest garnet count and thereby his personal bill being the last read, they would have a sure win. I was surprised that noone tried to manipulate the personal bill order by exchanging garnets. I was also wondering why there was no Jinho vs. Doohee, because either one having the other eliminated would mean they have a near 100% chance to get the hidden immunity idol.
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Jan 12, 2014 12:21
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Meme Emulator posted:Was anyone else expecting the race model during the 5:5 game to be a man? The show was making such a deal about talking about how sexy she was, I thought someone was going to ask a gender question and get hosed over because the race model was actually a guy. I guess I was just expecting them to pull a Maury. You watched to much american cable tv.
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Jan 13, 2014 18:14
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To be fair, Yohwan did enable the big alliance to win with his bomb trade, not the stealing of Dohee's card and Sangmin used his lie-detection super powers on Dohee to decide that he will give him the fake token. But Dohee was really stupid to buy it, because if Sangmin wanted to use the Token to have a SC2-Progamer-Deathmatch his alliance should have made him the looser instead of a untrustworthy nerd. Going forward Sangmin should be safe until there is a chance for an alliance to win with all/the majority of alliance members gettin immunity, because if Sangmin is the looser, he can choose 2 people to fight it out. Additionally Sangmin is a great person to bring to the finale. He is truly the master of people, but that does not get you much in the end, because to advance he has to betray, which reduces his support from eliminated contestants.
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Jan 15, 2014 09:15
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Dohee was powerless because he can only play the game and not the people. At one point he had Jinho's ID card in his possesion, why not try to make a deal with that (e.g. go to the big alliance and tell them he will trade it for his own, no questions asked. He was only powerless because he thought he was powerless. If you look at season 1 the small village had basicly lost when they send the burglar back, but they did not resign, they worked the other people and in the end won.
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Jan 15, 2014 15:54
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Random Stranger posted:I would be genuinely shocked if someone has not worked out optimal Guess Who strategy. My guess is that you can't optimally solve the problem because there is no strictly dominant strategy. I can always ask a question that splits the pool not by 50% (e.g. 5% yes, 95% no) thereby taking a greater risk but potentially greater reward. The 50% strategy has probably the best worst case, but the worst best case while a higher risk strategy has a better best case but a much worse average case.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:33
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Random Stranger posted:But there can still be a strategy that maximizes your chance of winning. Optimal doesn't mean unbeatable; just that it's the strategy that leads to victory the greatest number of times; optimal Blackjack strategy, for example, wins about 52% of the time (and if you use it you get thrown out of the casino Well the real math is pretty easy. Given that our goal is to eliminate as much people as possible with each question and both answers (yes/no) are equally desirable (e.g. you dont get another turn if the answer is yes) then we can model it as: x is the % of people that fit the question, has to be in the intervall ]0;1[ That means that the average number of eliminated candidates can be expressed as x*(1-x)+(1-x)*x which is the same as 2x-2x^2 which is a parabola with a maximum at 0.5.
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Jan 17, 2014 20:58
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). Is there a set of questions that can beat the binary division of the group regularly? Is it more efficient to try to narrow the group to eight on your first question than it is to go with a 10/9 split (you lose a bit of efficiency in the first question but possibly gain an advantage over the other other paths)?
Rob Filter posted:Not exactly. Consider: Thats why I stated that you would have to play an infinite number of games to make this strategy optimal. I abstracted from the boardstate by only trying to find the strategy that maximizes the expected number of eliminations. Fast Luck posted:Right but Gaussian already recognized that in his first post but someone else was pushing for the "optimal" solution anyway. By the way that solution might be optimal for the person who gets to go first, but if the player going second also used that same technique he'd lose every time, so the person going second will have to ask the 75/25 (or 60/40 etc) questions and if they hit then switch to 50/50, while the person who went first switches to 75/25 in an attempt to catch up. Imo. It depends on the number of candidates. If its not a power of 2 number (4, 8, 16 etc.) there will be a point where it will depend on luck, e.g. if you have 24 candidates it would go 24-12-6-3 at which point you have a 33% chance to end it in 1, 33% to end it in 2 and 33% to need 3 guesses.
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Jan 17, 2014 23:08
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CeeJee posted:Some games give the ones having a lot of garnets a huge advantage like last season's Expression Auction where you could buy a bid higher then anyone could have and now this one. You only need 5 garnets to have a secure win without anyone helping you. You can combine the special die and you odd/even die to show all 5s or 6s (depending on what die you have) and then turn you starting die so it only shows 3 and 4 which means you can win because you have 2 markers. As to the deathmatch, Jiwon played it to the best of his means. He knew he could not beat Jinho in a long drawn out fight so he went in for the kill. He originally only wanted to play with 5 garnets, which would have made his strategy even stronger.
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Jan 21, 2014 09:42
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Fast Luck posted:Of course it was the right move, but Jinho called it because Jiwon himself had a 2, and then it came down to total chance and nothing but. If Jinho had drawn the higher card in the end, would Jiwon still have "deserved" to win? The answer is that he never deserved to win, and neither did Jinho, they both made correct and almost automatic moves, and then it was just luck took care of it. The game begun before they sat down and the cards were drawn. Jiwon understood that he had no chance against Jinho if its a long, drawn out game, because then his advantage of counting cards becomes insurmountable. The fact that they played with only 15 chips made Jinho call the all-in, which gave Jihon the victory in the end. The rule that the pot goes onto the next hand is actually really sensible because it means calling is never a safe choice, just like folding is never safe. With regards to Sangmins hidden immunity idol, I believe it only works up to final 5, because after that there are only 2 people who dont have an token of life so he would not able to choose someone else. Which means if they want to get rid of it they have to make him loose next week. Which is kinda stupid because he will then choose 2 people who conspired againt him to go up against each other and from the looks of it they can spend garnets next week, which means if they try to attack Sangmin he will defend himself with garnets thereby lowering the pricepool significantly.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:34
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Random Stranger posted:It's not 95% to win because you know that the only logical reason to go all-in like that one the very first bet of the entire game is that you have an unwinnable hand. Therefore you're going to match your opponent's unwinnable hand or your opponent is absurdly reckless (it could be a good bluff but one that gets a minimum gain for a very significant risk). So there's a small chance that your opponent is an idiot, insane, or stupidly overconfident and then a 50% chance that you'll actually win when facing down the hands. So you've got maybe a sixty percent chance of winning by going all-in versus an over 90% chance of winning long term by folding now and letting the game develop a bit more. If we assume that Jiwon's strategy was "all-in every hand" then Jinho's move was the correct move to make, because with the information he has there is no scenario then knowing at worst we will be tied/coinflip, except you are expecting him to count cards and only make a move when the number of lowest card remaining is lower then <3 (not counting Jiwon's card). Only if we assume that Jiwon's strategy was not "all-in every hand" or "all-in every hand with Jinho's card <50% winchance" would it be sensible to fold for Jinho. But with regards to all the Jiwon is the worst player ever, I would like to highlight the fact that him choosing Jinho was brilliant, as it gave him atleast a shot at public support (from the other contestants) in case of a popularity contest. His pitch would have been "Would you rather go to the finals with Jinho, the genius, or me, who is hated and stupid.
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Jan 24, 2014 08:48
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Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:Meh, season one had it's share of poorly designed puzzles but managed to be enjoyable anyway. Season 2 has come down to coin tosses way too many times. When the death match started I counted Hongchul's pieces and saw that he had 8 chances with 16 letters on the board. With those odds, it doesn't take a genius to realize you can just make your opponent guess his way out of the game. I don't even like Hongchul but the challenge was bullshit. Aside from guessing the "O" twice he played as well as anyone could in that situation. I disagree that it has come to more cointosses in the deathmatches by game designe. The last two weeks we had players who leveraged their garnet advantage/their opponents disadvantage to win the game, when they knew that they might be weaker in terms of long term gameplay (especially memory). To me this is more in the spirit of The Genius, especially with the season 2 subtitle being rulebreaker. The same can be said about the mainmatches, with Junghyun tanking on purpose to protect Sangmin (and probably Yoonsun, who I believe is in an secret alliance with Sangmin and Junghyun) from being sucked dry by the 3 guys, banking on Garnet superiority and popular support in the deathmatch. Im very excited to see how they adapted the food chain game to work with guests.
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Feb 1, 2014 20:03
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Great mainmatch - If you keep in mind that its a episode 1 or 2 setup where they tried to make as much people as possible winners, the strategy needed Sangmin and it was not they knew him from season 1. It will be interesting to see how the Immortality thing works with so few people, because if it doesn't work, Sangmin should have suicided himself into picking the perfect deathmatch he wanted. Because he did not show any signs that this is his plan, I believe that the immortallity overrides the tokens, just like it would have if everyone were a shared winner today, which was impossible but explained in the episode nonetheless.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBB2bPwKWVg Hope they have a lot of this again! So pumped for season3
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Oct 1, 2014 21:36
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While I missed Extreme Ways, "Me, Me, Me" (by Serebro - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlt5Wa13fFU) was actually very fitting of the very egotistical move by Kyunghoon. He was not deserving of an Extreme Ways reveal like a Sangmin or Jinho because he did not work out a strategy to beat the game but did the easy move that will probably cost him in the future. To me it was the worst move any contestant could have made at this point in the game, because the rewards are very little but the damage he did to his reputation (inside the game) is probably irreparable. My first strategy to "solve" the main game was the "3 people 6 fruits always bid 1" but I'm no longer a fan of it. First of all there is a good chance that one of the 3-person alliance will be in the deathmatch (and without much support from the group) and you are only building relationships with 2 other people instead of cooperating with a larger group. My goals for the first contest would be to establish good relations with a larger group, get a reputation for being trustworthy and to not stick out to much while not coming in last. The deathmatch game was great twist on the black/white game from last season. The players get enough information to play with strategy but not too much. I dont think going 1 in the last round was that much of a mistake, because she did not know exactly how many points her opponent hat left. She probably thought that the comment "let's end it quickly" was a bluff and therefor put only up 1. As for the black garnets, I really hope they will have different ways to earn them (the fact that they had the line in from a contestant is a strong hint in that direction) because otherwise there is a good chance that no one will ever gather 3. Unless of course only the "regular" garnets are forfeit if you lose and the black garnets are given to the winner of the deathmatch.
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Oct 5, 2014 15:48
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MisterZimbu posted:I'm guessing it was always there (they do mention it explicitly in season 1), but it has a concrete penalty now of an automatic last place. I doubt that will happen. If you want to go last place just throw the mainmatch and you might even help out your allies/make sure that you take your target down with you. Someone who played a really good first round was Yoohyun, who would have won, if not for the stupid move by Kyunghoon without betraying his alliance, all while making it look like he sacrificed himself for them by attacking the watermelons, something Jinho and Sangmin were great at.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:27
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NowonSA posted:I'd be down with this. Steal someone's Garnet bag to put yourself into last. Although it seems counterintuitive, there has to be a theoretical situation where you would want to be in last place. Maybe put yourself there instead of someone else to really cement an alliance, or to take out someone that you fear later on yourself? Maybe if someone gets two black gernets, put yourself into last to go up again them, so if you win there's a chance you essentially get a token of immortality, assuming you can beat the test. The only good reason I can come up with to go for last place under current rules is to chose your opponent. Let's use S2 player as example. You know that Yohwan will lose the mainmatch but probably chose you to go up against in the deathmatch because he feels wronged by you. You go for last place to go up against a weaker individual player, thereby repairing your relationship with Yohwan (you saved him from going into the deathmatch) and staying in the game. You also earn a black garnet.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:51
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I believe Yongsuk didn't even try to win the deathmatch and threw it after he was clearly targeted by everyone in the mainmatch. The "popular vote" for last place in combination with the "jump" power, which was the worst by far, ensured his lose in the mainmatch, after which he only put forth a token effort to get a decent edit. Another interesting observation is that without the "winner takes all" mechanic the garnet count is more even after 3 rounds, which is nice because it means noone has to big of an advantage. With them giving out black garnets to "winners" now, the game becomes even more complicated because the loser might not lose if he got the right person to win and gets 3 black garnets for his efforts.
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Oct 20, 2014 08:25
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This episode was marked by big mistakes from the respective losers. If you know your leader is vulnerable in an attack, either through doubting or the damage that comes in, you have to doubt. There is no other option, especially because everyone except the leader and Dongmin, who was confirmed as the wielder of dual swords. And both players did not understand the chance that bidding on both sides gives you if you are the starting player. For just 2 points you can win 10 points even if your opponent has a 1/2 card in front of him. Especially Hweejong should have made use of this, once he saw that his opponent is playing very conservative, as it's the intended counter to that kind of playstyle.
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Oct 27, 2014 08:54
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Enkor posted:There's no reason to think that second player has an advantage. It's like you started with an empty board, and then went first by playing the 2 tracks. You can force a win as the two player if you disregard possibilites like "2 open slots that have to be filled to complete the track" and "impossible to complete". In this case the second player just has to make sure that the total number of tiles played after both turns is 4, which leads to the first player having to put down atleast one tile with 4 tiles remaining, which leads to a player 2 win. I think it's possible that player 1 can use the face that he knows how many tiles player 2 has to play to stay in the "winning" position to create a situation in which player 2 either has to play a different ammount of tiles, in which case player one is in the "default winning position" or loses by "impossible"/"2 open slots that have to be filled". I'm not sure if there is a surefire attack for player one, but this game should be solvable for either player 1 or 2 because there is no possibility of a draw. GaussianCopula fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 18:21
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Istvun posted:I think as the starting player I'd want to do something like This seems to be a win forcing move by player 1, because he dictates nearly the complete shape of the track (either 16 or 18 tiles including the train station) while at the same time reducing the freedom of player 2 to place as many segments as he wishes considerably.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:20
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NowonSA posted:I'm expecting a lot of brutal 1 on 1 deathmatches this season though, it won't always be anyone vs. Tittygod, we're guaranteed to get some tough ones like Hyunmin vs. Dongmin, Jinho vs. Sangmin, etc. The black magician Sangmin will not be in the deathmatch before the finale ... and there he will fight against Tittygod.
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Jul 4, 2015 08:44
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qbert posted:I just realized 5 of this season's contestants have never lost a Death Match. That doesn't sound right. It's only 4 and none of those 4 has played more than one season, which means they "only" needed to reach F2 in their respective season to achieve this status.
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Jul 4, 2015 09:25
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Subyng posted:And only 3 women for season 4. I would argue that it's because Korean culture does not allow a "female Sangmin"
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Jul 4, 2015 16:42
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Propaganda Machine posted:It's intelligent, so it's never happening in the States. Imagine a hardcore version that has the same kind of games but playing in a Big Brother style environment.
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Jul 7, 2015 14:02
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Fast Luck posted:I think if they did this show in the US they'd have to pitch it less as a reality show and more like a game show. A bunch of smart people in suits and gowns doing brainteaser games, get Mark Burnett behind it and have him roll it out to a lot of noise like he did with 500 Questions. With the right media hype it could be billed as a great new concept and get a lot of attention, plus it could drum up a bunch of critical clout ahead of its premiere. The format is not "fast" enough for the typical US timeslot. You only have ~40min for Main Game and Death Match.
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Jul 7, 2015 16:33
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I don't even think that you would need celebs for an international version.
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Jul 7, 2015 19:02
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Insurrectionist posted:His TEAM was set up well to win, sure, but he was as much to blame as the rest for them completely blowing half their advantages to the point where they lost any chance at joint victory. Him getting the overall win was 100% down to chance because he happened to pick the best positioned monster for his group in terms of numbers, something we know he didn't manipulate because A: the entire team was just revealed to have comletely hosed up that part of the game beforehand anyway, and B: it was dependent on what monsters the other team picked which they had no way of playing around - it could easily have switched numbers with one of the other Monsters leaving him with no way of winning with the strategy they used because they'd have to support the Vampire and not the Mummy or whatever. It was not chance but a direct result of him having one garnet more than everyone else, which is why he had to pick a different monster.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:26
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Well, according to the Facebook reviews Bumbdi is posting on Twitter right now Society Game is really good. I for one am psyched.
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Oct 13, 2016 11:26
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Max posted:I hope Bumdi follows up with "and I'm going to sub it." your wish is granted. https://twitter.com/Bumdidlyump/status/788336657749512192
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Oct 18, 2016 12:16
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