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BattleCake posted:edit: Did anyone else laugh out loud when you get back in the shed with the medical supplies and (assuming you asked Alvin for help) take a sip out of the juice box before cleaning out the wound? It just made me think of those countless scenes in games and movies where a character takes a swig of some strong alcoholic drink to dull the pain for some impromptu surgery or amputation, but in this case you're a little girl grimly sipping from a juicebox; the juxtaposition was just hilarious to me. Surely that was intentional right? The imagery is so perfect, especially with the way she's positioned with her arm on the table. I didn't even realize this could happen. The way this game balances morbidity and humor is almost too on the nose, but it somehow works.
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Dec 28, 2013 08:34
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BattleCake posted:Sometimes I will replay portions of the game to see how different situations would have played out (and even then, only with specific things I'm very interested in) but I think the story and whatnot really works best when you just stick with your decisions and live with the consequences. That's the whole point of timed conversation options and all that. Actually, I'd say the whole point of timed conversation options is to give you another option. Lee always had his 4th conversation slot as "..." Which was a bit of a waste of space and people would react to it just the same as the other options a large portion of the time. Adding the timed interval as Clem's lack of response (and Bigby's as well) gives the conversations flow, and people seem to react more appropriately to her silence this time. There were plenty of times in the first episode of both TWAU and Season 2 where I actively chose to be silent and I felt it actually paid off, and made sense in the conversation, unlike season 1. It really helps to think of the time limit as another option, not just an inconvenience.
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Jan 3, 2014 02:55
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Extreme0 posted:Or the fact that Omid didn't have a gun to begin with when entering the restroom. I could not see a weapon on him which you think is a good idea when you're almost a year into the apocalypse and know what to expect. It's really clear that Omid and Christa are about to have a quickie when Clem goes into the bathroom. They flirt up until they get inside, Christa tells Omid he'll sleep outside, and then they reminisce about "that time in Barstow [...] Vegas Weekend" before Christa gives Omid The Look and Omid tells Clem awkwardly to go clean up because they'll "be right next door" (together). That scene is really thematically well set up, because it destroys the illusion that happiness and safety could exist in that world. We thought everything would be alright -- Christa was pregnant. Omid was happy. Clementine checked everything and had everything "under control" but no matter what they did, it wouldn't be safe. Giving players an option to take the gun yet still let the girl get the drop on her wouldn't fix anything. It would be the illusion of choice, because what you do wouldn't matter at all. Instead of devaluing choice, the game just presents what happens to you. This aligns it with the themes in a really concise way without invalidating how important choice is in terms of game design. If you want to talk about genuinely bad writing though, that goes to the Bathroom Scene, which has a huge contradiction in it and has genuinely problematic writing. As mentioned before, if you don't hide in that scene, Sarah will magically come out of her room and prevent Rebecca from finding you. This makes absolutely no sense in the context of that decision, because absolutely nothing Clem does in that room would ever have an effect on Sarah coming out of her room. The game literally throws you a bone for convenience, which invalidates Rebecca from entering the room in any other decision path, because no matter what you do, Sarah should stop her from entering. This means that Clementine should never get the information about Rebecca being pregnant. On top of that, We can see there are no towels in the linen closet. In fact, the whole bathroom is pretty sparse. Sarah knows this, and Rebecca should know this, so even with Sarah being a crazy basketcase Rebecca was really clearly lying about why she was going to the bathroom to begin with. That whole scene is super frustrating in the context of an Episode that has arguably the most interesting and meaningful player decisions the game has had yet. Season 1 had a lot of garbage decisions and choice illusion, which while interesting from a flavortext perspective didn't really give much of our choices genuine meaning. All That Remains fixed a lot of that, but the arbitrary bad writing in regards to certain choices still appears. That's what happens when you give people options that don't matter -- and why its important that we weren't able to decide whether or not Clem took the gun with her into the stall. laplace fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 04:34
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I think the thing with not having control in that situation making it better is that there really isn't any meaningful interaction for the player in that scene anyway. I agree that there's no reason why we should be able to put the gun in the bag, but I also don't think we really gain anything by making Clem do something specifically because Clem isn't us. We may be the way she enacts her agency but she had no agency in that situation because she had constructed what she believed to be a safe scenario. So, there's really no point to playing that segment other than it being a new-UI tutorial. Basically, regardless of whether or not you play that segment all you're gonna get out of it is "I sure did press buttons just then", as opposed to making any sort of decisions, or enacting any sort of Agency -- which is the whole point of the player being present (as defined by the games usage of the player in all other aspects). It's important that what happened happened, and I wouldn't have it any other way -- There's just little point in the player having control because that control amounted to zilch.
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Jan 10, 2014 17:59
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THE PWNER posted:Sounds like a pretty important point! It is debatable. It also could have been implemented in a better way, considering how the scene directly after it functions / could function equally as well as a Tutorial. Clem gathering Firewood with a single-solution puzzle fits that bill pretty perfectly.
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Jan 11, 2014 03:06
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Hahaha, It turns out that Steam just deleted all of my Walking Dead saves. Even going back to Season 1. Even though I had cloud saves enabled and used them extensively. I'm going to have to replay TWD Season 1, for the third time this year. Three days before Episode 3 comes out.
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May 3, 2014 08:58
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Dolash posted:Aw, sorry to hear thaaa - wait episode 3 comes out in three days?! Wooooooo! I read somewhere that it was May 6th? Am I crazy? Was this not announced? Sorry if I made something up by accident.
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May 3, 2014 15:31
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I'd kill Kenny as well. I really hate how the writers super invalidated his arc with Ben by throwing in the whole "That piece of poo poo" line followed by having him basically regress into an rear end in a top hat who makes all the same mistakes as he did before. He's also skeezy as gently caress in this second season and is off the loving rails. They turned a really meaningful, poignant death and relationship -- no matter how you ended up getting there -- into a dumb shock value twist in season 2, which is really depressing. I say this as someone who both chose to sit next to him and as someone who's favorite character in season one was Kenny. It really was a no brainer to me. That arc needs to be finished, and my Clem is the type to make that decision if she had to. laplace fucked around with this message at 17:25 on May 4, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 17:22
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I feel weird because I really like Sarah's group? What in particular is wrong with them? I mean, sure, they're kinda plain but at least they have really clear goals and motivations other than just "survive". I'm not comparing them to the season 1 group, but just as a standalone they seem pretty fine to me. Not sayin they aint fishy though.
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May 8, 2014 16:31
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I liked that they stuck you in the shed. I mean, sure, they're slightly untrustworthy ruthless monsters but that's what makes them interesting to me. I like how they have enough character to do lovely stuff if they're motivated to, unlike in Season 1 where you could pretty much sweet talk your way out of almost any situation. That's more of a game structure issue though with season 1 that I think they've just in general fixed in TWAU and Season 2. I'm curious to see what actually made them split off from Carver.
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May 8, 2014 17:11
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Final scene of season 2, Clementine and Sarah walk alone into the sunset. Sarah starts playing I spy. Final choice: Kill yourself, or kill Sarah. 10/10 make it happen Telltale.
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May 9, 2014 01:55
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Guess it's time for me to continue reconstructing my save. It's gonna be a long rear end day.
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May 13, 2014 23:48
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Metal Gear Clementine was excellent and Sarita's face as the scene cut to black was possibly the most satisfying thing that has ever happened in a videogame. Edit: I chose to stay silent so often this time it is was essentially like playing an episode of The Wolf Among Us. That being said I am excited to teach Sarah how to be a loving warrior in these next eps, if the opportunity presents itself. "You can control pain" gently caress yes you can, Clementine Rambo. laplace fucked around with this message at 09:00 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 08:22
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I am genuinely pretty shocked with how they integrated the 400 Days guys. Then again, they say the place was pretty different a while before. It's just weird to see Tavia talk about how hopeful she is yet in this episode be a stress smoker who supports child abuse.
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May 14, 2014 23:17
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Still not sure why people don't like the Season 2 crowd. I like that their motivations are clear and their own individual symbols are being set up into interesting thematic arcs. Sure, some of them are dicks or irrational but that's what makes being around them interesting, because it puts some weight in your interaction with them. I much prefer this group and their constant arguing to the first seasons sort of hilarious 'everyone must listen to Lee' mentality. Kenny and Lilly telling me I can't take the middle ground only to let me take the middle ground over and over again repeatedly comes to mind as a sort of glaring writing flaw with their otherwise compelling personalities. In this season, there have already been a huge amount of situations where characters blatantly disregard or go against Clementine if you can't convince them or disagree with them. I like that a lot, it shows that the characters are more than just vaguely humanoid pieces of computer programming. I guess the best way to put it is the characters from S2 feel much more like the side characters from S1, and are better for it because Telltale is toying with how the group actually deals with Clementine instead of just being steamrolled by any of the Player's choices.
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May 15, 2014 07:10
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I would not mind a Season 3 where you play as Christa, seeing what happens to her after her and Clem get separated.
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May 16, 2014 00:34
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Why does everyone think that locking Clem in the shed is "bad writing"? It's super clear that Carlos just wanted you dead in case you were one of Carver's goons. That's better writing than a group of paranoid strangers just accepting a murder machine child into their fold just because 'it's a dog bite lol also I'm a survivalist 11 year old'
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May 16, 2014 01:11
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Spalec posted:They could even set games in other countries. Is the entire TWD world hosed or is America just quarantined? I think that's one of the greater mysteries of the series, but I haven't read the comics so maybe someone else could answer better? Thats the impression I get from the game/TV show.
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May 16, 2014 02:46
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1stGear posted:Whatever causes the zombies in The Walking Dead triggers on ANY death, not just ones from zombie bites. So it wouldn't make any sense for other countries to be fine. This isn't the sort of thing you can just quarantine and contain. IDK, maybe it only affects people in America, due to all the flouride in our water  It was an inside job!!!
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May 16, 2014 03:05
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Don't they vaguely hint that something happened a while back to make Carver start acting more militaristic? I mean, Tavia really "believed" in the place, and in 400 days she even says there are tons of people there of all ages and denominations. It's quite different from the image we actually get when we're there, and I think *maybe* there were a few things that changed before this episode took place.
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May 16, 2014 03:21
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This is probably my favorite episode so far as a whole, and it is the episode that took me the longest other than S1E4.
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May 16, 2014 05:02
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The thing is, it's established that Clem can Withstand pain and torture because, in a sort of fridge terrifying reveal, Christa taught her how. So seeing her Get smacked by the butt of a gun and come out with a bruise and a scrape only visually strengthens Clem's resolve and determination -- It's less a physical attack on her "Body" than it is a symbolic gesture of the obstacles she must overcome From a writing standpoint. On the otherhand, Sarah gets the poo poo smacked out of her by her father, who was previously her "protector", for literally just being herself (a goofy little girl with no friends). Not only is this possibly her first "physical interaction" with any of the actual characters so far, it's also a really thematically aggressive action. So basically what I'm saying is Clem getting hit isn't as "shocking" because the writers are deliberately positing Clem as a character who can not only handle it, but who is operating on a different set of physical symbols/themes than, for example, Sarah. We've literally been forced to be compliant in Clem shoving a needle through her arm, because it's what needs to be done and both Clem and the player knows it. When we see her get hit, it's a product of a choice we've made, and we know that it was a "necessary" outcome. What happened to Sarah, on the other hand, is an aggressive reversal of her character's established symbols, and was due to nothing except a man with a grudge. That's what makes it so monstrous.  Writing and Game design!
laplace fucked around with this message at 09:20 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 09:17
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Verviticus posted:I went through the dialogue that talks about this but missed the latter part. How do you know christa taught her She explains in episode 1 that Christa taught her how to do amateur surgery using herself. "Just like Christa taught me... This is gonna suck." Add that to the whole "You know, You can control pain. It takes some practice... but..." you can put two and two together pretty well. edit: I'm not saying that Christa casually waterboarded clementine in an attempt to make her grow up or anything, just that pretty much all of Clem's harder survival skills come from her. laplace fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 14:06
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Marsh House encounter. Mine would be this if not for the fact that If you play relatively protective the Crazy Guy's complaints pretty much fall apart into "WELL, YOU'RE A DICK LEE". That generally made that moment have less impact. I actually felt pretty let down by it.
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May 17, 2014 01:04
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The thing with Carver is I don't actually think he started off this way, and I don't think he actually "gets enjoyment" out of it. I think he, in some smug, self-congratulatory sort of way just sees himself as "playing a role". He's being "noble", and even if he is tortured by it, is so stupidly idealistic that he doesn't mind ~taking the fall~ because he ~understands people and what needs to be done~, which is different from Clem, who *actually* has a strong understanding of people and guidance.
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May 17, 2014 02:20
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Timeless Appeal posted:I think any sense of nobility in Carver went out the window during his death. Right before he dies, he starts taunting Rebecca about how she enjoyed every minute of the sex. It's a gross line only meant to humiliate and hurt. For me, it firmly contextualizes his actions as being nothing more then cruelty for its own sake. While I kept Clem quiet got her interactions with him, her being able to call him out as a bully was right on the money. He's an abuser and a lot of the community acts as his victims. There is also the fact that he could have just killed Alvin. But instead he tortures him slowly to make him feel weak and make himself feel strong. Maybe he got worse, but it felt like this was all based on some deeply rooted issues. I agree with all of this, just that his actual motivation in Actually leading and creating the compound was a little bit separate from his overall character arc with Rebecca and the group we have now -- That's how he's able to be such a huge loving cock and people like Tavia are still capable of seeing hope in the place.
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May 17, 2014 05:34
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Beartaco posted:For me, the plan's stayed the same the whole season. Find Christa. It was nice to see Kenny, I'm liking this character development, but all this imprisonment stuff is just getting in the way of me finding her. I am in the same boat. Like Lee before her, my Clem is definitely around to be a determined leader type, but her goals haven't changed: Get Christa. Get north. All she's doing with these people is peacefully cohabiting and doing everything she can to NOT harm them, so that when they do part, they do so on amiable terms.
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May 17, 2014 13:29
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The thing is, we have a huge time gap with Christa that we never got to see. For all we know, even if she does secretly harbor some sort of ressentiment towards Clem she still helped her, and helped her drat well, for a LONG TIME before the start of major events this season. Christa is knowledgeable and skilled. It was lovely weather, a lovely situation, and they were starving. All of the dialogue choices were kind of lovely, and overall it was a tense situation. Christa purposefully lies about being alone there, which means she has some amount of care for Clem. I'm not gonna just walk out of her life and become the monster that got Omid killed and ruined her life, just to disappear and never try to at least show some drat respect to the woman.
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May 18, 2014 01:54
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monster on a stick posted:Does anyone actually care about finding Sarah? Let's include both living people who play the game and the fictional characters (now that Carlos is dead.) Yes. I don't really understand why people vehemently hate her. She's deadweight, sure, but she has issues and could learn to get over them. She's also an interesting foil to Clem, I think. Now for characters in-game, I don't think anyone except maybe the player's clem has any attachment for her other than the symbolic attachment of "she's innocent and we must protect her".
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Jun 5, 2014 08:10
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Yeah, in my game Lee was attached to the old world value of talking things out. Clem has grown up in this lovely world and understands when talking just plain doesn't work. That being said, Clem is essentially a Lawful Neutral decisionmaker in my game. She is vaguely benevolent to people in an attempt to keep herself a neutral party but won't hesitate to Chop an arm off or leave a bitten man to die if pressed to make a decision.
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Jun 11, 2014 10:01
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Volt Catfish posted:Does anybody actually think Season 2 is better? It's still good and I feel the same way as that guy above in saying I'd throw money at Telltale making stories like this for forever, but I think it's got a Dark Souls/2 thing going on here. It was impossible to surpass the sheer magnificence of the original and they probably knew that. Season 2 is better and so is Dark Souls 2.  I do like Season 1 but I feel like cutting out all the menial navigation garbage was a valuable thing to do.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:39
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Where's my game, Telltale. It's 5pm here in Japan on the 22nd. Time Zones.
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Jul 22, 2014 08:57
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I still can't download it. Does steam do rollouts for different regions? I even tried with my American VPN on. 
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Jul 22, 2014 16:21
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The only thing that was a letdown was Arvo just because it's a fakey-fake non-choice. Still, good episode of Fun with Clem and Jane. It's clear that the Episode 4-5 set will always Will have an integral character who helps everyone else grow and then depart if Jane and Molly are any sort of trend. I didn't hate it, it wasn't amazing, but it wasn't the worst episode yet.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:00
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Buzkashi posted:I think it's for the best that we didn't catch that raccoon, god knows what kind of diseases it was carrying. I was expecting Bonnie to Get Rabies And Die real hard. Also, I was pretty sure that the whole Arvo Putting drugs in the trash was a direct call back to Ben scabbing drugs to raiders. It was extremely evocative of that which is why I decided Not to gently caress with him, but then Jane had to go all commando on him and tell him not to come back which still left whoever would be mad about it without drugs -- At least, that was my logic in the moment. I don't think this whole season has been bad, and I even think this episode has a lot of great Clem moments. It's going into full-symbols-and-themes territory with Clem's arc to the point where almost every single background item or texture has some sort of comment relating to Clem's journey on it -- "Lost but never forgotten" "When will this cruel, cruel war be over?", and maybe even most of all the monument of the soldier carrying the dead/wounded soldier. The Non-choices definitely hurt in this case, but it's not nearly as bad as the poo poo in Episode 1 where choices are actually rendered contradictory in certain scenarios to maintain gameyness, like Sarah magically popping out of her room to prevent Rebecca from finding you if you don't hide but not doing so if you do, even though those two things are not even remotely related actions. It's interesting to see Clem be a character who on a narrative level is attempting to grasp more agency and ability while the game itself is becoming increasingly limited in even how we superficially interact with the narrative as players. It's really not boding well for Clem's arc in that sense, if only because it feels like they are bookending even the player interaction and drawing everything to a close. I don't think this is the worst episode, and I definitely like Season 2 more than Season 1 as a whole, but it definitely does feel like a story about Clem that got bogged down by other characters. Season 1 was more unified but it had its lows, and it was full of garbage "rub things on other things" puzzles and tone-killing "walk around and touch everyone until they start repeating dialogue" moments that I don't actually feel showcased the characters all that effectively. In conversations in Season 2 more things actually get said and done, even if it's using less words. Season 2 also doesn't mind how you play Clem, whereas Season 1 is very harshly slanted towards playing Good Guy And Teacher Lee Everett. I'm sure Season 3 will be better, as it will probably end up being the game TellTale has been wanting to make this whole time. Having played Season 1 three times because my save file got eaten by bugs every single time I completed 400 Days, it's harder for me to look back on it fondly compared to season 2, if only for the fact that Season 2 cuts a lot of the bullshit mechanics and downtime and keeps a relatively steady pace, even if the writing gets a little wacky for it.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:27
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When the inevitable Take or Leave or Kill the baby option comes up you can bet your rear end my Clem is going to sigh real hard and leave it/let Kenny take it and wander into the woods where he belongs.
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Jul 23, 2014 11:06
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Whatever happened to Eddy? Consider, you know, the title card and all.
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Jul 25, 2014 03:47
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I hope I can Just let Kenny take the baby and walk off into the woods in the next episode. That'd solve a whole lot of problems.
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Jul 25, 2014 05:12
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Mokinokaro posted:The title cards for 3 and 4 look like they might be been switched. Considering the blood on face thing was episode 3 as well. Still, what happened to Eddy
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Jul 25, 2014 14:18
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I mean, Season 3 has been announced so take that how you will. Edit: Also I'm pretty sure in S1 Clementine pretty much only really thought of Kenny as "That weird, often drunk Neighbor who likely smells like a dead hobo". laplace fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 06:50
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