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Thanqol posted:This is the worst thing I have ever done and I'm sorry. Incredible.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:23
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:"Clay is our lifeblood." Bah! What are we, Serbs?!?  You're the one keen on the epithets, you're welcome to come up with a name if you want. Latins, Francophiles, whatever.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:31
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It begiiiiiiiiins!
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Feb 20, 2014 21:43
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 Papist. You are heretic. A heretic! Siting here among the Senators of Rome, as if the eyes of God couldn't see you! You want to drag an empire to hell for alliances that will certainly never come? Sail to Rome, to sullied seat of St. Peter, beg him to wash your sins away. Here, in Constantinople, we know our God. He knows us. And he certainly knows who has fallen astray.
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Feb 20, 2014 22:48
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 Olaloaf, you say that I am a heathen for wishing to revive proven traditions of our ancestors and yet you would bend your knee to men who believe not in the divine guidance given to our Empire? Men who squat in the ruins of our former glory, deluding themselves into believing that they are the heirs to that glory rather than being those who despoiled it? It must be recognized that times have changed, it is true, and that the West cannot be ours again without tolerance for those who are now there, but to bow to those who have allowed Rome to waste away and who presume to speak for God is impossible. Additionally, do not defile the name of Latin with your heresy. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 23:35
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sniper4625 posted:It begiiiiiiiiins! I'm so glad I get to be a part of it this time around. I missed out Crete; I missed out on the opportunity to throw baseless slanders about for political gain and to drive wedges between groups of my enemies to strengthen my own position but this time I will not be denied! 
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Feb 20, 2014 23:51
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Hey hey hey, before all of this squabbling gets out of hand, we need to remember the reason this august body was created in the first place. To try and curb the power of the damned Doukas. Seriously, gently caress those misbegotten cretins. No matter whether you want to retake Rome and restore the Empire back to its old borders, forge a new one to eclipse the glory of the old, or organize a nationwide prance through the trees it doesn't matter so long as we have these shortsighted and selfish nobles tearing at the bit to rebel every time the Empress dares cough. More than anything it galls me that these traitors are allowed to keep their lands and power. As hateful as the so called "Bulgarians" are, at least they are honest regarding their treachery. These Doukas operate under the guise of being proper members of the Empire while they rot and rend us apart from within. They have forgotten that they exist to serve the Empire. It would be prudent to relive those who have forgotten this fact of the burdens they are unfit to carry and give them to those more deserving.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:01
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 I will admit I don't get the whole "Roman" thing. Roman implies that we are seated out of Rome, which we are not. Besides, Rome is in Italy, and we really do not want to be over there right now. It's really a dark age in the Catholic world, unlike here in the seat of glorious civilization. Constantinople is a beacon of wisdom and strength, and its star has risen above that above Rome. One we bring the heathen to heel, our empire will stretch farther than the Roman Empire ever dared, and we will be remembered for all of history not as some Roman state, but as a great Byzantine Empire.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:03
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Meinberg posted:
Just because we do not hold our ancestral lands, does not mean we have turned our back on them. We continue Roman traditions and keep the dying light of true civilization alive! It is our duty to retake Italia, and put an end to this Catholic imposter empire in Germania. Rome is our legacy, but it is also our future.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:20
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I'm sorry, does seriously no one remember St. Ambrose and Theodosius? Old Romans should know that there is a strong precedence for the Emperor submitting his interests and his will to a bishop with interests in secular policy. Moreover, if we're going to limit our diplomatic actions to those realms which are not squatting "in the ruins of our former glory", we will be grievously handicapping ourselves. Even if we stuck to our schismatic system as the Empire's true faith, we would have to deny friendship with Bulgaria, deny friendship with Serbia, deny friendship with the Armenians and refuse to deal with the Georgians. Essentially we would have to limit our possible alliances to the Rus' far to our north, and such Russophilism is not beneficial to us. A lord from Marseilles or Barcelona can far more easily reach us than a boyar in Novgorod or Vitebsk. The Italians, Occitans, Catalans and other Christians of the Mediterranean, while resident in lands that once belonged to our Empire at its greatest height, are our natural allies, and we must seek to foster friendship with them whenever and however we can. Conversely, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised an Old Roman doesn't know that here in the modern world where we don't wear togas, Latins are those Western knights and adventurers. Have you seriously never heard idle political chat about the Latinoi? Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 00:22
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Horsebanger posted:
Indeed, part of what we need to do is retake former Roman lands from those who seek to be the false heir to Rome. However, this is a new age from when Rome was in her prime, and thus we need new ideas to compliment those made by the Romans so long ago. Let's face it, Rome fell when it was divided in two, but we can pick up the pieces and make something greater than the sum of its parts--the Byzantine Empire!
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Feb 21, 2014 00:28
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Spectacular. So we've barely established our parties, and already we've had a break based on religion. Clearly, these groups know what's important. Turks ready to pounce, Bulgarians spitting in our face simply by existing, but no, clearly we've got to care about some idiot in a fancy hat sitting over in Italy and his relation to us! For the love of whatever you people find holy (honestly, it's sort of hard to tell at this point), we've got more pressing matters than spending afternoons wistfully thinking about our so-called "heritage" and arguing about our stance towards whoever happened to set up shop over there on that oversized boot that calls itself a peninsula. The realm is a god drat wreck, we're completely reliant on Jews to finance our wars, and our administration in general is just a disgrace! As much as you people despise the Papist faction, at least they seem to have their head on straight in that we need to find friends, not more people we want to butt heads with! We've already got more than enough of that at home! TheMcD fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 00:33
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:We stand on a precipice, my friends. Will you cast out even those traditions that strengthen us, as Ofaloaf proposes? Will we abandon those things that made the Roman Empire great simply because we can? Or will we hearken back to that greatness, and allow it to fuel our resurgence?  Thoros II Qutuzid That is what he said, DivineCoffeBinge. And my fellow senator Ofaloaf, a Papist he may be, does bring a good point as well. Steel may be what shapes our tools and weapons, but Clay is what shapes our homes and walls. One is useless without the other, as a defender clad in steel needs a home made of clay to protect as much as the home needs its defender. Both can be shaped. Both can be made to serve the purpose most needed of them. But neither can be made to serve the purpose of the other. The Romans was iron and iron only, which lead to its demise. We have to be Steel, forged in ovens of Clay, to protect that which we hold dear. A flourishing empire is one where the future is embraced with lessons learnt from the past. My fellow senators amongst the Old Romans see to the west, to Rome, and dream of our golden past. Yet they seem to forget that while it was a Rome of gold, it was also a Rome that fell. A Rome where mistakes were made. A Rome that forced us that survived to pay the price for their folly. And that is the reason as to why I can't find myself amongst the Old Romans. Not because I do not believe in a golden Roman past, but rather because I do. I see it as a past that, slowly but surely, crumbled to the decadence of the Caesar, falling to the mistreatment of the barbarian tribes of the north, the very same barbarians who sacked the City of Seven Hills and who now have taken the place of our Roman ancestors and even claim to be Roman emperors themselves. I can't join the Old Romans because they seek the lands of Italy not because they're rich, not because they're fertile, but because they were Roman. They look at our past and sees the glory while ignoring the flaws. They seek to bring us back, when instead we could strive to bring ourselves forward. Rather than seek to restore something that fell, why not from the ruins build something that will stand. Like a purple phoenix, glorious and majestic, Byzantium could rise from the ashes of Rome. Not something old, but something new. Βυζάντιο αυξάνεται! Byzantium Rises!
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Feb 21, 2014 00:34
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TheMcD posted:
You see, this is the problem with the New Byzantines. Maybe you are good at identifying problems, and certainly at identifying things you think are problems. But you are certainly not putting any solutions forward. "Out with the old, in with the new"! It's just too bad you have no idea what the new is. So while you squabble in knee-jerk reaction over what makes the Roman Empire what it is, some of you even getting in bed with those who would see the Emperor kneel to the pope, the rest of us will be trying to Get poo poo Done. That is, unless you get it together and manage to come up with or back an idea that does not include giving in to our enemies voluntarily.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:57
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 Are we voting yet? I vote for more drink! And where do you get more drinks? By inviting foreigners who make it to be your friends. I realize that some of the senators here spend too much time yammering and writing paragraph after paragraph of dull prose to realize this but that's what Faction: Funhavers is here to remind you of. Allies = good. Also we should try and get those Bulgarians back I suppose. Can't we just remind them of their place with a few well placed armies, geld/blind a few of them and whatnot? How hard can it be? I vote for that, and also more alliances and things with whoever is willing and able to bring drinks. I want that drat vodka, now that our soldiers have figured out how to fight up north. Anatolia only has Raki and that stuff is just inferior Ouzo really.
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Feb 21, 2014 02:29
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Ofaloaf posted:
Get out. Get out! GET OUT!!! You heretic! The pentarchy of episcopal sees has exists with the full authority of Rome since the Quinisext Council officially establised it as ecumenical! It is the authority of the world! And the heretical Bishop of Rome and his villainous papal followers should not be trusted! The Bishop of Rome for instance attempted to crown the Carolingian as the head of the Roman Empire while we still existed, quite obviously! And from this he attempted to establish a power in this earth over saecular matters! Was it not said that we will all be subject to the Kingdom of God in the hereafter? Why then do we attempt to do so when this is not God's domain? Caesaropapism is necessary in this age. The saeculum must protect us from the infidel, so that we can direct the will of Jesus of Nazareth. To suggest that we obtain power over the Empress is absurd. Yet, this is what the Bishop in Rome has done, established himself over the saecular powers! He is no avatar of God on earth, for God had only one such person, and it was his son!
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Feb 21, 2014 03:05
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Well said! No Catholic shall ever rule in Constantinople!
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Feb 21, 2014 03:57
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Calm yourself, Senator, the heretic stands alone on this matter, and I doubt anyone will give thought to his vile words, save perhaps the Komnenian, if only through lack of thought. Not one day in this Senate, and already I have been exposed to such blasphemous thoughts within the echelons of our own court! Do pray for my soul, man, and for that of the Romans. As of yet, I am undeclared, though I find great sympathy with your plight. It is true what the Frank says, the old Latins of the West has fallen astray, deceived by the Bishop of Rome. And it is indeed true that they are closer in kin and distance to us than the Slavs of the far north. But, my brothers, is this not greater cause to show them the error of their ways? Does this not provoke a call to action? We are still the greatest empire under the eye of God, the cradle of civilization in the West, all that has changed is our capital and our language. We are parents to the Latins, and they are simply indulging in the ways of youthful folly. A good parent must have both carrot and stick, we cannot prostrate ourselves before our rightful subjects when they are so misled! We must dispose of the False Prophet in Rome, reclaim the Patriarchs of old, and show the light of the true rite to our wayward sons and daughters! And if they do not take our olive branch, they must accept our steel.
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Feb 21, 2014 03:58
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Ofaloaf posted:
Ambrose and Theodosius are the men who last steadfastly opposed the reinstatement of the Altar of Victory, Senator. Your mention of them in relation to this matter in my presence is a blatant insult and a disgrace, but not a surprise. It is right and proper to ally with the Western realms, as Rome has always engaged in alliances of convenience; however, to bow to the Bishop of Rome merely to make such diplomacy smoother, as you suggest, is beneath the dignity of the Empress and beneath the dignity of this body. Indeed, productive relations with the West in general would be a welcome change from the status quo and this body should welcome any suggestions as to how to accomplish this without compromising the essence of the Empire in the process. After all, they must grow used to our guiding hand upon their shoulder once more before they may return to the fold of the Empire. I have, of course, heard of the Latinoi and refuse to honor them with such a name when they have corrupted the ancient and proper tongue of our people. Perhaps if they were exposed to more of the ancients' wisdom and proper grammar they would deserve the appellation. Addendum: Raserys, your wisdom is refreshing, though your concern for the souls of we Old Romans is truly misplaced. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 04:02
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Raserys posted:Calm yourself, Senator, the heretic stands alone on this matter, and I doubt anyone will give thought to his vile words, save perhaps the Komnenian, if only through lack of thought. Not one day in this Senate, and already I have been exposed to such blasphemous thoughts within the echelons of our own court! Do pray for my soul, man, and for that of the Romans. As of yet, I am undeclared, though I find great sympathy with your plight. Believe me, brother, no one yearns to bring Orthodoxy back to Italy more than myself. But we must tend to our own backyard before we can even even consider such prospects. Reclaim the entirety of the coastal Anatolian duchies at the very least if not all of Anatolia, and of course bring those blasted Bulgarians back into the fold. We may also want to consider reclaiming Antioch and re-establishing the second seat of the Pentarchy. Only once that is done can we cast our eyes outward.
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Feb 21, 2014 04:04
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Indeed. Once Bulgaria and Anatolia are settled, we can look back towards our more recent embarrassments. The reconquest of the provinces of Illyria and Magna Graecia , now held by the so called 'King' of Croatia and Normans respectively, must be priority. Our Empire entered the greatest period of wealth and power we have known in this era with the Makedonian reconquests of these territories. Let our Empress be the Boulgaroktonos born anew!
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Feb 21, 2014 04:29
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I have stayed silent until now, but I cannot hold my tongue any longer whilst cruel and unjust words are hurled like stones at an innocent man. Gentlemen, is this really the time for discord in the house of Christ? While we sit in opposition to our Latin brothers, good Christian men and women labor beneath the oppression of turks - or worse, those barely-christian Bulgarians! The westerners are our natural allies, and kinsmen in the church. The empire does not, and as recent years have demonstrated cannot stand alone, despite Old Roman pretensions. Our foundations in the days of Constantine the Great were as a Christian empire above all else, and I daresay our recent decay is a sign from the Father of how far we have fallen from that ideal. For those who are hesitant to bend their knee to the pope because they think it unseemly, recall that Humility is blessed in the eyes of Christ. Unity in the Church above all else! I cast myself in favor of the Latins. forkis fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 04:29
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forkis posted:For those who are hesitant to bend their knee to the pope because they think it unseemly, recall that Humility is blessed in the eyes of Christ. Something the papacy and its over inflated ego has never learned.
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Feb 21, 2014 04:36
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My, but we're certainly getting spicy. But I suppose the question lies in more whether the Senator in question prefers to end the Schism by force or by accession. Do we really want to be the side that admits defeat? We, the glorious state of Rome in Byzantium?
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Feb 21, 2014 04:37
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I tell you this: there is one House of Christ, the Orthodox Church! All others are pretenders and heretics, none more so than Archdemon that befouls Peter's seat! The holy task of our empire is to bring the light of the true faith to all the world! Ours is an empire that will submit to nothing, least of all the unholiest of men. The Church will be united only when the Pentarchy is restored. Only when all men can recite the Greek Rite.
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Feb 21, 2014 04:42
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
I object to this strident characterization of the Archbishop of Rome! Recall that you speak of a man who prays from the same book as you, not an eastern heathen bent on burning churches to the ground and ushering in a true age of apostasy. There are differences between our churches, but they are insignificant at best. The rumors of hatred between the Greek and Latin have been exaggerated by men whose hearts know only greed and unseemly ambition. Need I remind you gentlemen that while humility is a virtue blessed in the eyes of both Son and Father, pride is just as equally a sin abhorrent on both heaven and earth. forkis fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 04:49
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forkis posted:I cast myself in favor of the Latins. Oh sweet Lord, the Unionists (they don't deserve the honour of being called Latins) are multiplying. Rather like cockroaches, actually. Leaving aside the religious aspect for a moment, the secular aspects of Union should be enough to render the idea a non-starter. Most of the Roman people would be extremely unhappy if we submitted to Papal control; resulting in us spending thousands of lives, decades of time and uncountable wealth converting, slaughtering or otherwise dealing with those opposed to Union. Another point to consider is this: The old Western Empire filled the ranks of its legions with barbarians. When those barbarians turned on Rome, there were few true Roman soldiers left to oppose them. Seeking a Union of the churches to get the Western barbarians to come fight our battles for us strikes me as a straight repetition of one of the greatest mistakes in Imperial history. No-one with any sense can honestly argue in favour of Union.
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Feb 21, 2014 04:55
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The most 'unseemly ambition' of all is to attempt to raise oneself above all others in the eyes of God. This is the crime of the Papacy, and it is one of the greatest ever visited upon mankind! Would you submit our empire, our children, to such men?
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Feb 21, 2014 04:56
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Well, it certainly appears that our Senate's very own schism seems to be gaining momentum. No matter, it's not like it will ever grow large enough to challenge the Royal family. Let's just leave them to their own devices and continue to pay our taxes and breed so the Empire may best serve the Royals.
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Feb 21, 2014 05:00
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I agree with my fellow New Byzantines. We must look forward, and not to the past. Rome Of Old was glorious yes, but it was also Rome That Fell. When the great Constantine moved his seat to the great city of his namesake, it was because he foresaw the death of the old empire. We are not Rome. We are not Latins. We shall not reclaim the glory of old Rome. Nay, we WILL not! I ask you, why should we want it? The tarnished bronze of a fallen pagan empire? Rome's heritage is not glory, but failure. We are not Rome, we are Byzantium. Our glory is not in the past, but in the future. Not in the reclamation of the old and broken, but in the forging of something new, stronger, and better. Just as steel has replaced iron, Byzantium has supplanted Rome. We are a new empire. A better empire. Recall the smiting of Sodom by the Almighty God, and his instruction to Lot who's family alone fled. He said to Lot "do not look back", but Lot's wife did, and she was turned into a pillar of salt. Old iron rusts. Old bones turn to dust. To gaze ever into the past is to cease to move forward, and invite a similar fate. Rome of old became enamored of it's own glory, and ceased to look forward but inward, and as it's glory faded, backwards, until Rome of old was no more. We shall not make the same mistake. Old swords become chipped and dented, rusted and useless. They are smelted, re-forged, and made sharp and new and better by the refinement of new smithing practices. This must be our New Byzantium. Ever forging, ever refining, ever ready to discard the old and rusted for new and better. Rome rose, and Rome fell. A new, forward looking Byzantium will rise and rise and never cease, les one day generations from now everything short of the Kingdom of Heaven shall be within our grasp. Byzantium is the heart of the civilized world. Our capital city alone houses the finest strategic, arithmetic and theological minds on God's Earth. For generations, the greatest ideas have been born and taken root in these lands, from Archimedes to first churches of Christ. It is why we alone stand firm against the heresies of the Roman Church and the impostors who've usurped the seat of St. Peter. We must embrace these new thinkers and their ideas. We must find new and ingenious ways of running our nation, of making war, and of the world around us. History tells of wars fought and won by genius and innovation, with new weapons and new strategies, backed by forward thinking and well administrated empires. If we seek to repel the Heathens of the East, much less reclaim our lost holdings on Bulgaria, we can only do so by using our superior learned minds. The enemy is great in number, and it is only by vexing him on the battlefield that we may see him thrown down. I propose that we dedicate all available resources to the pursuit of these new ideas. To the funding of schools and libraries, and the patronage of the great and innovative minds of our nation, across the spectrum of knowledge and study. One Byzantine soldier is already worth 10 of any other, with new weapons and tactics, we might extend that advantage 1 to 100. Thusly I urge this Senate to charge ourr Emperor with the following duties and objectives, in order: 1. To establish places of study, learning and knowledge, so we may raise many generations of great minds. 2. To patronize and foster geniuses and innovative thinkers in our empire. 3. To rapidly acquire from these great minds new ideas in warfare, administration, and all other fields of knowledge in turn. 4. To rapidly reform our military capabilities with such new ideas as they become available. 5. To use new ideas of governance to reformer our Imperial Administration for the best efficiency. 6. To press these advantages, once achieved, into the re-conquest of Anatolia and Bulgaria, and subsequently the Black Sea region. The machinery of genius sustains itself. Great minds will breed more great minds, knowledge more knowledge. As long as we keep facing forward, our advantage over the heathens and heretics will only grow. This is my vision for a New Byzantium. Join us, and cast your vote for progress and glory!
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Feb 21, 2014 05:47
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PART TWELVE: The New Byzantine (1141-1170) Step one to Now, I'm not knocking the marriage alliances! They're important. The Senate, clutching copies of the Alexiad, never shut up about the glory days of the alliance between the Holy Roman and Actual Roman Empires and the "Brother Emperors" Alexios I Komnenos and Henry IV Salian and all that garbage. I'll just put it out there that Alexios farmed out the duty of boning Princess Agnes to another Komnenos and personally married smart, capable administrators. I mean, for me all this was academic since the crowned heads of Europe weren't exactly lining up to matrilineally marry their heirs to some lady. And if a marriage alliance is what the empire needs, don't say no. It's not like you've got any siblings left. Just-- think it through, ok?  In my opinion, the Milvians are the least useful faction in the entire Senate. But there's benefits to throwing the church a bone every so often. Just remember you aren't just the emperor of the Orthodox Greeks. There's the Jews of Constantinople, of course. Some of the Turks who have found their way to the correct side of the Roman/Byzantine border are still Sunni. The Pecheneg ruling classes might all be Orthodox, but a lot of the villagers are still Tengri. Plenty of clever Catholics have found applications for their skills in the Roman Empire. And in these times, dominated by New Byzantines who don't give a poo poo, it's not really our style to make them all convert at swordpoint. Be personally pious, respect the Ecumenical Patriarch, don't try to summon Satan at the altar of the Hagia Sophia, but mostly— religion is a sleeping dog you should let lie.  Religion also offers an opportunity to broaden your horizons, get out of Constantinople, see what the world outside Rome looks like.  Let your hair down, you know?  The Church also maintains better libraries than anywhere else in the empire. Make use of them.  Mostly, though, it's just a sideshow to the act of governance. And on that note... Okay, pay attention here, because this is the single most important thing I've done in my entire reign so far. Now, by this point, the so-called "theme system" had decayed into pretty much just being pretty much equivalent to the bullshit feudal systems Western Europeans like to pretend counts as "a government" in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Like bullshit it is. I'd like nothing more than to just throw every Doux in the Byzantine Empire into the Black Sea. (I'd especially like that now, at this very moment, in the circumstances I'm writing this. But more about that later.) In the meantime, though, the least I could do was try to restore some sort of order to the theme system. So in 1144, I called for the power of the douxes to be rolled back and some semblance of the old theme system to be restored.  The New Byzantines were overjoyed, of course. Most of the Senate, really. The Old Romans are big on restoring things. And even the Milvians and Komnenians like the church and me, personally, which are both centers of power that aren't douxes. The nobles, less so.  I eventually forced them to accept the reforms, though. They knew that it was just one step down the road to the ultimate goal of their extinction as a class, though. So they made a note of it, and never forgave me.  So of course they try to overthrow me a few months later. loving figures, right? Let's just appreciate the novelty of them putting up another Komnenos for the throne instead of a Doukas, though.  I won't bore you with the details. We had a bigger army than any single Doux, getting Douxes to do anything together is like herding cats, so we won. The end.  And I wasn't going to let some retarded civil war distract me from the business of destroying the Bulgarian Empire. Our armies were busy, but armies aren't the only weapon in the arsenal of statecraft— you can undermine your enemies by more subtle means like espionage or assassination. Or snakes.  Sometimes you really just need to stick a sword in somebody to get them to stop hassling you.   And, you know, once you kill a Doux or two they tend to get spooked. When your only motivation is your own self-interest, dying in some bloody ditch after you get stabbed to death by a teenage girl isn't really an ideal outcome.  So that was that. Ioannes' little power play blew up in his face, a bunch of douxes died in various horrible ways, and most of the rest were in jail.  Between kicking their asses and restoring the old theme system, it was easy to extract even more concessions from the nobles. The New Byzantines started to call me a "New Byzantine". I didn't contradict them.  The Turkish Empire continued to be wracked by civil wars, but mostly it was just about which decadent noble would be on top rather than weighty issues of the relationship between a sovereign monarch and the feudal lords and ladies obligated to them.  The Bulgarians were having a civil war, too— looks like our little snake friend gave the snakes of Duklja some ideas for what to do with the power vacuum left by Ioakim, who I'm pretty sure was the only half-way competent ruler the Bulgarian Empire would ever get their hands on.  Without the business of ruling the empire to keep him occupied, Anatolios' enormous appetites finally caught up with him. Thanks for not driving the empire into the ground when I was a baby, but good riddance, you abusive little shithead.  With the Bulgarians busy trying to keep the Serbians from installing a Bulgarian they liked better on the throne, I decided 1146 would make a good year to try to add Moesia back to the empire. I wanted to get the ball rolling on reclaiming Bulgaria before all of the claimants to Bulgarian titles we had lying around started to die off, you see.  We didn't even need to mobilize our whole army to beat them, just our standing army, the Varangians, and a few levies from the provinces surrounding Constantinople. It was kind of pathetic, actually. But that's what happens when you let your irreplaceable veteran army die trying to seize Ragusa, I guess.  Going to war with the Turkish Empire (at this point, in the hands of the Seljuks) would still have been really stupid. But we still had ways to deal with 'em.  The results of the sudden Seljuk power vacuum were totally shocking and nobody in the Roman Empire ever would have seen them coming.  I decided it'd be nice if we didn't have any more weird Bulgarian-style ethno-religious-nationalist-whatever uprisings, so I issued an edict of tolerance for non-Greek cultures and non-Orthodox religions. The New Byzantines ratified it before the ink was dyed. Literally, it got all smudges when they all tried to fight one another to read it aloud in the chambers of the Senate and I had to write another copy of it. But the empire-- so recently pretty much just a little Greek stub of nothing-- was regaining its polyglot character.  I also continued to promote urbanization, since towns = taxes = more money to use to put down the inevitable bullshit doux revolt.   Of course, more dudes with swords are also pretty good for that stuff. Tip: More dudes. More swords.  Ah, Konstantia. Your older sister. Named for my old mentor, of course. I'd rather not dwell on this, even after all this time.  The secret war between Byzantine and  After yet another Bulgarian civil war ended in 1150, I decided to really stick it to 'em by claiming their imperial capital.  The Pope, meanwhile, decided to take advantage of yet another stupid Saimid-Seljuk civil war by getting his own little slice of Saimid territory while the getting was good.  I'm not exactly in the Pope's fan club, but anything that hurts the Saimids or the Seljuks (flip a coin) helps us, so with our armies occupied in Bulgaria I sent the other forces at my disposal after the Sultan.  We occupied the great "imperial" capital of Bulgaria without breaking a sweat.  Total victory came shortly thereafter.  For the first time since the original Bulgarian revolt, the Pecheneg domains on the Black Sea had a land connection to the rest of the empire. More to the point, the Bulgarian Empire had lost its capital in a humiliating defeat. The Tsarina still claimed the mantle of an empress, but it was pretty stupid. Just because you call something "the Bulgarian Empire" doesn't mean that it's not three non-contiguous Bulgarias.  Also good news: The Pope managed to tear the Holy Land away from the Saimids. I mean, ideally the Holy Land is ours, but anything that makes a big chunk of the Saimid Empire slough away is nice to hear about.  So in 1155 I thought, well, we've reestablished the land connection between Wallachia, Belgorod, and the Pecheneg Khanate and the rest of the empire, so why not set one up between Cherson and the Pechenegs?  Believe it or not, this was one of the harder wars I fought. Don't underestimate Tengri horse archers. Especially not in large numbers.  And-- I'll admit it-- early in the war, we suffered some truly appalling defeats.  A defeat which, frankly, rattled my nerves a bit. I stuck with the army, of course, because when you're an empress you kind of have to. But wouldn't it me stupid to get shot by an arrow and throw the whole empire into chaos just for some stupid military posturing?  My true talents were in politics, anyway.  Fortunately, we had enough money to replenish our armies with mercenaries. But it was a close thing. Don't just write off the Tengri peoples as a bunch of barbarians you can wipe the floor with whenever you want to add some new provinces to the empire.  Defeat in the Crusade for Jerusalem led to the fall of the Saimids and the reestablishment of the Seljuks, which then immediately precipitated a new Saimid revolt. Our agents were having trouble figuring out which Turkish leader they should be trying to assassinate.  The war was over by 1157. It was frequently said that, for the first time in ages, you could now walk from one end of the Roman Empire to the other without once leaving the imperial territory. I question whether you can walk across the Bosphorus to get from Greece to Anatolia, but it's the thought that counts.  Just like my predecessors did with the Pecheneg provinces, after I organized Crimea into its own theme I found a Cuman noble who converted to Orthodoxy to pass it off onto.  Iouliana Komnene died in 1159, which was a huge bummer. Most of what I know about my Mom I know from her— and, of course, the Alexiad was a pretty great piece of Komnenos propaganda which did a lot of heavy lifting in cementing the regime. I was kind of hoping she'd write a history of my reign, too, although that doesn't really make sense since she was way older than me, so if she'd outlived me it would have meant something had gone horribly wrong.  The Saimids succeeded in their latest attempt to overthrow the Seljuks, meaning that once again our little circle of assassins and dissatisfied Turkish conspirators had to get new marching orders.  Having already divested the Empire of Bulgaria of its capital, I decided that the Kingdom of Bulgaria's capital would be next on the chopping block. Confusingly, both capitals were in the same Bulgaria. There was a lot that was confusing about the three Bulgarias. Wouldn't it be nice if there were zero Bulgarias?  Once again, we turned the baiting tactics the Bulgarians used in their uprising back onto their originators. Although, really, the odds were so lopsided we were pretty much just toying with them. It was good practice, though. We'd managed to lose half an army fighting the Crimeans, and we weren't keen to repeat the experience.  And that's how Bulgaria number one got a bit smaller.  The ongoing new Byzantine program to develop the Roman Empire's urban centers continued apace.   The Catholic Kingdom of Jersusalem fell in 1161, since, hey, it turns out that you can't just put a bunch of random Italian guys in charge of a territory filled with foreigners and surrounded by hostile powers and expect it to stick. Wow, who would have thought? Anyway, Jerusalem was seized by the Banu Fatimyyuns of Egypt, which meant that the Saimids still didn't have it, which means who cares.  Back in the Byzantine Empire, though, everything was coming up Iouliana. It's around this point that you started to hear people call me "Iouliana the Great".  Even the Ecumenical Patriarch was impressed, the fact that I didn't really give much of a poo poo about him and that the great work of my reign was beating up the world's only other Orthodox empire notwithstanding. I guess that war against the Crimeans counted as a holy war? Even though that was just what we called it to get everyone go go along with seizing a huge swath of territory and then putting it under a hand-picked doukessa.  He even took my side when I told some boring old priest to gently caress off when I was just trying to admire the Hagia Sophia. I wish my douxes were more like my church officials sometimes.  In 1163, strange tiding from Germany-- apparently an offshoot branch of the Komnenos had gotten themselves made dukes of Franconia, with designs on the throne of the Holy Roman Empire itself. Not super optimistic about their chances, but whatever. Glad to see they're getting things done over there.   The next year, my agents managed to kill another Saimid sultan.  You can probably guess what happened next. Out go the Saimids, in come the Seljuks. Assassins get things done. At any given point in your reign as emperor, you should probably be plotting to assassinate the Sultan of the Turkish Empire.   In 1165, our truce with Bulgaria expired, so it was time for yet another war against them. This time, I mixed things up and went after Bulgaria Number Two on behalf of one of the patricians of Belgorod.  The Bulgarians were dealt another crushing defeat, of course. It wasn't even remotely challenging. Not like the war over Ragusa, or Doux Ioannes' revolt, or the Crimean War. But when the New Byzantines wanted to erect a triumphal arch in Constantinople showing me leading my troops to victory of the Bulgarian hordes, I didn't exactly say no. And if that arch doesn't show the ways my knees shook or my sword-hand trembled, well, image is everything. Anyway, I was there. I fought. Frankly, it's braver to do something when you're afraid than when you're brave. Or something like that.  And then Patrician Kortan up and died. This is a problem with feudalism— it's not enough that Bulgaria is rightfully part of the empire. You need to rely on a bunch of personal relationships and claims and inheritances to get it to all work. I don't like it one bit.  We had to fight the whole stupid war all over again for some other patrician's claim.  On the bright side, we knocked off yet another Turkish sultan.  The Seljuk Empire duly exploded once again.  By 1168, we'd finished winning the war for Constantia a second time, further isolating Bulgaria Two from Bulgarias One and Three and cementing our control over the Danube.  We attempt to take advantage of the latest Seljuk civil war by seizing the domains of a rebel lord. But feudalism is bullshit, and the civil war ended before we could force the Iznik to capitulate. The only interesting thing was that the old Seljuk sultan had been overthrown by another Seljuk and not a Saimid.  Not that Sultan Basbuga I Seljuk had very long to enjoy his victory. Hope being sultan for a month was worth ruining our war, rear end in a top hat.  So-- it's 1169. I'm Iouliana the Great. I've reduced Crimea to a tiny rump state, smashed Bulgaria into pieces, resestablished Byzantine dominance over the Black Sea. We still couldn't beat the Seljuks/Saimids/whatever head to head, but my agents had killed like a million sultans and kept them busy fighting eachother instead of us. But the loving nobles didn't respect me.  They were afraid of me. And probably they're right to be. Reestablishing the theme system was the biggest blow to their privileges in, well, basically ever. The arc of Roman history up to that point, from Diocletian onwards, was more and more power attaching itself to the office of Dux. And now the lady who finally tuned the tide on them, asserted that a "theme" was something different from a petty feudal kingdom, and had run through a bunch of them with swords on the battlefield was being called Iouliana the Great, was being hailed as pretty much the greatest leader the empire's had since Justinian. Which is probably hyperbole. But nobody likes false modesty, so I'm at least the greatest empress or emperor we've had in quite some time. So I guess they thought of all of that, and then they looked over at the Turkish Empire, and saw how constant dynastic feuds and civil wars were gradually wearing down the most powerful empire in the Mediterranean world into a total shithole, and thought, "Hey! That could be us!"   And they killed my daughter.  Konstantia wasn't meant for fighting, but she had a brilliant mind for numbers, and would have made an excellent steward of the fortunes of the empire. Most importantly, she had that same burning Komnenos ambition that's carried us so far. And then— snuffed out, at the age of 19.  You already know about all of this, of course. This happened last year. But I want to put it in writing, to reiterate it, to remind you, in however many years later when i give you this scroll, the sorts of people who fill out the ranks of the nobility. To remind you who you're dealing with. Another lesson for when you're an emperor: Terrible things will happen to the empire, to the people you care about, to you. But grief is a luxury you can't afford. Being emperor is a lot like being a shark— if you ever stop moving, you die.  It's April 17th, 1170. The sun is dipping beneath the horizon; it's getting difficult to write in the deepening gloom. I know better than to tire myself out writing into the night— we fight the Doux of Adrianopolis' host tomorrow. So, for now, I shall set my work aside and go to sleep. And, in the morning, I'll fold this letter up and tuck it into my clothing. Because, in truth, I'm afraid. Battles have always made me afraid, ever since Crimea. But one can't let personal feelings stand in the way of the business of ruling the empire. But I can draw strength from them. And, when I fight tomorrow, I'll feel this letter on my breast, and remember what I'm fighting for. Who I'm fighting for. You, Alexios, my only child. And perhaps that will lend me courage.         World Map (1165-- the closest I had to the end of this update)   Assassination Scorecard: Tsars Killed: 1 Sultans Killed: 3 Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 06:04
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EightDeer posted:
Surely you are not so foolish as to imply that the Western Empire's only failing was their conscription of Barbarians. For two centuries the "barbarians" bled and died for Rome while the aristocracy retreated into their estates, dodging tax collectors. For two centuries they held back the tide of invaders, holding against the might of the Huns at the height of their power! Did not men such as Stilicho ably guide the empire in a time when the imperial bureaucracy was incapable of doing so? These "barbarians" have a much more regal history than you would give them good sir. Do not get me wrong, I for one despise the Pope's attempts to rise above his worldly station, but a Union of the churches would restore our position as true defenders of Christianity and allow us to try to restore the equality of the Patriarchs from within their own power structure.
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Feb 21, 2014 06:15
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Another Empress taken before her time, this is a dark day for the Empire. I pray for the health and safety of the young Alexios. On the other hand, rejoice! The Catholics have shown us the way to reclaim the Levant. Imagine what they could have accomplished with our support for their endeavor. I said it once before and I'll say it again: A unified church is a strong church. Rome and Constantinople were meant to stand as brother and sister. forkis fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 06:21
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EightDeer posted:
I would urge my fellow Old Romans not to fall prey to the arrogance that befell our great predecessors. Were we not a tolerant society once? And did not our intolerance toward the men that would later wrench the West from our hands precipitate that very course of events? We should not shun the Westerners, for that is the very arrogance that rendered the West unable to truly assimilate them under the Roman banner. Neither, however, should we submit to them while we still possess our honor.
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Feb 21, 2014 06:23
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Gentlemen of the Senate, today is a sad day for Romans all and everywhere. For our Empress has been slain. A moment of prayer for the Empress and her many deeds in the name of the Empire. May she rest in piece in the afterlife she has so richly earned.
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Feb 21, 2014 06:34
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Skyfinder posted:
... The nobles must pay for what they have done. Death is too good for them, they should be thrown in a dungeon and left to rot for the rest of their miserable existences.
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Feb 21, 2014 06:37
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GrabbinPeels posted:Do not get me wrong, I for one despise the Pope's attempts to rise above his worldly station, but a Union of the churches would restore our position as true defenders of Christianity and allow us to try to restore the equality of the Patriarchs from within their own power structure. If you can convince the pope to cease his maniacal power-mongering then by all means do it.
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Feb 21, 2014 07:39
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Skyfinder posted:
I propose that if this party calls themselves the Old Romans, we live up to it - crucify every single noble involved in this rebellion, and any relations of this "Zenon the Wicked" we can find. They are traitors and regicides, and must be treated accordingly. (not-Senator talk: I know crucifixion isn't an option in CKII, but it's more flavourful than, I dunno, "behead".) An amendment: let us do as Senator Sandwich says, then crucify everyone. Better loyal people put in place first, rather than the titles going to vengeful heirs. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 08:18
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Really loved the last few updates. Spectacular job. Ah, greetings senators. Apologies for being late, guards were indignant, wouldn't let a Jew in the Senate. Fools fail to realize that the douxes are the real threat, not the merchants and moneylenders who have held Rome aloft on our backs for centuries! Now, onto business. I'd hardly say I agree with these reactionaries and Catholic apologists, but no quarter ought to be spared for the treasonous whores who have butchered our great Empress in pursuit of their own greed! Disgraceful, absolutely disgraceful! When they're presented in chains, I encourage all loyal, just senators to demand their lands forfeited and to send them into the darkest, deepest dungeons of Constantinople! Find loyal men and women to hand these titles to! Noble birth or not, Orthodox or not, what is important is that the douxes of the future are faithful, loyal, dutiful!
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Feb 21, 2014 08:29
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I could not have been prouder of our late Empress. An effective administrator, a worthy general and a benevolent reformer who, like Marius, Augustus and even Constanine the Great himself, has shown that Roman society. I pray for the health and security of young Alexios, and hope he can continue his mothers work and restore this great empire to its rightful place as the center of European culture, commerce and learning. To my to my colleagues in this Senate who are openenly advocating the heretical conversion of our Empire to Catholicism, I cannot support such a measure. However, reclamation of the Holy Land is our duty, and something every good Christian, be they Catholic or of the true faith, must support with all their heart. My senate colleagues advocating a new empire, they forget themselves. We are the Roman Empire! Whilst our western brothers perished, we flourished and until recently have continued to flourish! The decline has been halted by Noble House Khomenos, since the palace coup of 1081. I hope to one day stand in the old forum at Rome, and bow to Alexios not as the "Emperor of the Greeks" but as the rightful Emperor and dictator of the Senate and People of Rome! And finally, as with this traitor Bulgarian, all traitors deserve nothing but death! 
Horsebanger fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 08:43
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