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Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Jowy posted:

Honestly, I actually prefer non-Cornac Cursed because once you're good enough at the game you don't really need early Rampage and it means you get racials that matter instead of a category point that in the long run becomes a waste. This of course depends on if you're absolutely set on doing something like going both AM and taking cursed items though cause then obviously that's not gonna work too well, but just the fact that you have a choice is cool.

Of course I'd still say Cornac is better by a loooong shot for anyone not familiar with the class.

I can personally attest that Skeleton Cursed is pretty brutal. You lose movement infusions but are resilient as hell to make up for it. Not having access to AM kinda sucks, but being able to use arcane stuff opens up some pretty sweet options you wouldn't normally try. It's fun, but the starter area o god

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Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



After an initially promising Wyrmic run was suddenly cut short in the middle teens (stupic ice giant stone throwers! ), I decided to finally give the Stone Warden a try, going off of some of the excellent guides posted posted in the old thread. Suddenly it's like the game is trying to apologize to me. I've only just hit level 15, and it's already dropped something like 10+ random artifacts. Wrathroot also just so happened to drop two pretty great artifact shields at once. Most of the time I just waltz through the dungeons ignoring most enemies while they die to the vines or damage reflection, only occasionally deigning to actually punch a dude. The mutated minotaur boss in the maze somehow managed to kill himself within three rounds, without me ever actually doing a thing. Maybe this time around I'll actually make it past level 20

Perestroika fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2014 around 16:04

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012



ProfessorCirno posted:

You can buy lore in some towns!

In Last Hope you can buy the former king's writings on the end of the Age of Pyre and the war against the orcs, and a few unrelated stories that aren't connected to, well, anything.

Whoa last hope lore has the origin of the master. The sick young king that freed his people from the dwarves. His people loved him so much that when he died they got a nercomancer and raised him back from the dead. The undead king found living inefficient and killed everyone. After a while he got bored and decided to try and take over the world.

A Magical Lamp
Aug 16, 2010


Shwqa posted:

Whoa last hope lore has the origin of the master. The sick young king that freed his people from the dwarves. His people loved him so much that when he died they got a nercomancer and raised him back from the dead. The undead king found living inefficient and killed everyone. After a while he got bored and decided to try and take over the world.

It also mentions the backup guardian by name!

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


Tallgeese posted:

What does buying the game get you exactly, if anything?

Could you put this in the op Magres?

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest! The rightest!


Shwqa posted:

Whoa last hope lore has the origin of the master. The sick young king that freed his people from the dwarves. His people loved him so much that when he died they got a nercomancer and raised him back from the dead. The undead king found living inefficient and killed everyone. After a while he got bored and decided to try and take over the world.

...I never connected those dots

Hypocrisy
Oct 4, 2006
Lord of Sarcasm

ProfessorCirno posted:

...I never connected those dots

That's because the Master isn't Drake though he is related to him.

jetz0r
May 10, 2003
Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.


Hooray, got my first win yesterday. Used an Arcane Blade based off the stone magic + dual wielding guide in the ToME forums.
http://te4.org/characters/112140/to...d1-989b2a934a7c

It wound up being such a huge font of damage, most bosses or rares would live just long enough for me to dash in close and hit them with a fully buffed flurry. Some wouldn't even survive the dash. In addition to the insane single target damage, I had enough burst procs from crits that everything in 2 squares was getting sprayed with damage, and the extra stone missiles would hit enemies behind the vaporized corpse of my target.

My bump attack at the end was doing about 2k, with the fully buffed flurry doing around 25-30k on training dummies. I was very disappointed that I didn't one-round the last bosses. The first one actually took two attacks after eating a flurry, the other one lived about 6 more turns after trying to turn invisible and run away.

Almost all my deaths came from early-mid game things before the class really filled out and gave me some defensive abilities. Well, that and me not trying to escape fast enough in bad situations. Special shout-outs to the super bone golem in the crypt that kept itself alive through all my damage and healing abilities, then killed me with archery when I tried to get away.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



ChibiSoma posted:

I really wish someone was doing an informative video series. If not on the game as a whole then on specific characters. I know the wiki has some guides, but (last I checked, anyway) they were all short and not great and just sort of go "Put points here, not here. Now do this" without getting into the why of it. I want to see someone play, see why things work and why others don't, and how you should tackle things so you don't get overwhelmed.

For instance, no matter what race I use, I can't get a Cursed character above level 10. They're so incredibly weak! They die if a stiff wind kicks up, their attacks do absolutely nothing, their Sustained skills seem to Sustain off of thin air, and I have no idea which generics I need to focus on. Do I put points into Armor Training until I get to Plate? Do I work on maxing Unnatural Body first? Is Thick Skin completely useless or is it worth pumping the points into? 15% is not a large number. What about Combat Accuracy? I don't think I've seen any other class miss hits more than a Cursed character does. But does that matter when their hits are all so flimsy?

Dying constantly as a class leads to getting frustrated, getting frustrated leads to not wanting to play. Mirthless started out explaining things pretty well, but then it devolved into long periods of silence and him getting huffy after dying to stuff he shouldn't have been dying to. Plus he fell off the face of the earth and didn't do very many classes!

tl;dr: Cursed characters are the 98lb weaklings of Eyal.

Non-Cornac Cursed are not terrible, guys. They are a little fragile, yes, but perfectly playable and ramp up after 10 to be generally better than a Cornac (depending on the race). As for advice: Armor Training to Plate because plate is much better than other armor for the most part, ignore Unnatural Body for quite a while (possibly forever) as you've got better stuff to pump, Thick Skin is fantastic because holy poo poo dude, 15% all resist is not a small number! That's 15% off of every single attack you'll ever take. That adds up quickly. Combat Accuracy can wait generally, but if you're having accuracy issues then put points in - that all depends on gear, since if you find a lot of +accuracy or +dex stuff you won't need it for a while. Are you using one handers or two handers? You should not be having flimsy hits issues if you're building 2 Str 1 Con every level (except the Wil you need for Gloom) and using a 2-hander. Make sure you're putting points in Weapons Mastery too if you are worried about flimsy hits.

The other thing that a non-Cornac Cursed needs to do is get a basic gloom up. A 4 point investment (3/1/0/0) ASAP will give you a gloom that will make T1 bosses unable to do anything at all when they're next to you, as long as you pay attention to drops and try to have at least some +Wil stuff on. This is really the key to surviving to Rampage - before I tried Gloom out I was totally unable to get a Cursed to 10, afterward it became as brainless as a Berserker. Low-level enemies have no saves. I know the percentages seem low, but in practice it totally fucks enemies up despite that.



This is my level 11 Dwarf Cursed. I had Gloom at 4/2/0/0 before I got Rampage, but floated the points out so that I'd have a functional Rampage immediately. Undoubtedly this isn't optimal (for example, I'm a dork that likes Cursed Gifts - you should probably ignore that, although anyone who doesn't get Ruined Earth is missing out) but I hope it gives you some idea of how a Cursed should be built to get through 1-10. The points I have in Cursed Gifts could be redirected to Combat Accuracy (which is only so low because I found way too much accuracy on gear and put a fair amount into Stalk), racials, Armor Training, whatever.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2014 around 19:16

Jowy
Dec 4, 2007

Jesus Christ, it's a Pyro!

dis astranagant posted:

The problem with Reavers is that they give up the Corruptor's best trees for the privilege of getting up in people's faces with no added survivability. You have no crowd control to speak of, you hit for 3-4 different elements on a regular basis and you still have all the Corruptor's cooldown issues because everything in Corruption/Scourge takes forever to cooldown.

They're not very good problems, because Reaver still manages to be one of the nastier melee classes that isn't completely broken like Arcane Blades!

Really though the multiple element thing isn't even a big deal, everything procs Corrupted Strength anyway so it's pretty obvious you'll want to gear for Blight damage above all else, and Reavers have HP on par with Bulwarks and Bone Shield and can use massive armor which is all the survivability you really need provided you're using movement/heroism infusions. Though yes, gimmick shortstaff Reavers are hilariously deadly.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

dis astranagant posted:

The problem with Reavers is that they give up the Corruptor's best trees for the privilege of getting up in people's faces with no added survivability. You have no crowd control to speak of, you hit for 3-4 different elements on a regular basis and you still have all the Corruptor's cooldown issues because everything in Corruption/Scourge takes forever to cooldown.

You CAN get a goofy build going with staff combat and a pair of short staves so that you might actually have the stats to make the actual spells worth casting but you're probably not going to have the money or the equipment til Dreadfell or so.

Corruptors are amazing badasses and one of the stronger classes in the game but they doesn't come within a galaxy of Reaver's single target damage output. The Corrupted Strength tree is incredible and is the key to some absolutely loving crazy damage.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006


Eh, they can get pretty close while nuking a whole room. Having bloodspray to get the diseases started makes all the difference. Take the right prodigies and corruptors have a legit chance at killing training dummies.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011


ChibiSoma posted:

I really wish someone was doing an informative video series. If not on the game as a whole then on specific characters.

Then you're in luck! Now that I have a stable source of income, I'm going to try and do videos on each of the classes. I'm also going to try to stream more but I don't want to burn out on ToME so that's iffy.

vulturesrow
Sep 25, 2011

Always gotta pay it forward.

Got my first Urkis kill today (first time I've gotten to him actually). He killed me once cause I sort of blundered into him. Once I revived I burned him down pretty easily and he was nice enough to drop a blood of life. The doer of the deed was my Dwarf Berserker, Thibbledorf Pwent. Yes, that's goony as gently caress and you better believe he is wearing a motherfucking bladed helmet.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Well, I've finally killed the Master!

Cornac Cursed. I did die a couple times in Dreadfell, though.

... to an rear end in a top hat rare spawn next to the stairs, the Master himself was no problem although I need need to run off to heal once. At mach 3. I'm not sure what the spider-thing rare was doing, aside from occasionally turning me into an ice cube when I hit it. I guess I shouldn't have gone back for it after hateporting out of the starting room and nothing in it followed me, but I'm not experienced enough to really tell "this is a thing I should just avoid entirely".

Easiest Weirdling Beast kill I've ever had, too. I just waited a couple of turns, used the gloves I found to drag it over to the stairs, rampaged, and hit it several times in the face. After turning off my sustains first, of course.

Off to the East to get myself horribly killed through inexperience, I guess!

EDIT: Oh, if the Vault says my Movement Speed is +102.31247451126%, does that means I'm running around at about double speed before Rampage of a movement infusion?

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


Zereth posted:

Well, I've finally killed the Master!

Cornac Cursed. I did die a couple times in Dreadfell, though.

... to an rear end in a top hat rare spawn next to the stairs, the Master himself was no problem although I need need to run off to heal once. At mach 3. I'm not sure what the spider-thing rare was doing, aside from occasionally turning me into an ice cube when I hit it. I guess I shouldn't have gone back for it after hateporting out of the starting room and nothing in it followed me, but I'm not experienced enough to really tell "this is a thing I should just avoid entirely".

Easiest Weirdling Beast kill I've ever had, too. I just waited a couple of turns, used the gloves I found to drag it over to the stairs, rampaged, and hit it several times in the face. After turning off my sustains first, of course.

Off to the East to get myself horribly killed through inexperience, I guess!

EDIT: Oh, if the Vault says my Movement Speed is +102.31247451126%, does that means I'm running around at about double speed before Rampage of a movement infusion?

Don't worry man, most of the east is way easier than the last couple dungeons in the west. Just save the prides for last, they can be kind of brutal.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



I wonder if it's still practical to get Cleave and cut my way through the place to unlock Oozemancer. Do you need to do that before Zigur offers you Fungus for shanking the lightning guy? (Who spawned three squares form the stairs and went down before doing anything to me. )

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


oneliquidninja posted:

Could you put this in the op Magres?

Added - let me know if I missed anything? Text for what you get is right below "BUY IT HERE ON STEAM!"


Edit: ugh looking at my profile, there's a Winners page that's empty for me. The website is taunting me because I'm a fuckin scrub


Edit2: Anyone know, does the first skill in the Fire tree's projectile speed turn instantaneous when it becomes a beam? It's so fast as to effectively be instantaneous anyway - it takes half a turn to travel to its max distance - I'm just curious. It's just weird to me to have a beam with a travel time.

Magres fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2014 around 21:16

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


Magres posted:

Edit2: Anyone know, does the first skill in the Fire tree's projectile speed turn instantaneous when it becomes a beam? It's so fast as to effectively be instantaneous anyway - it takes half a turn to travel to its max distance - I'm just curious. It's just weird to me to have a beam with a travel time.
Yes, all beams are instant, and this is why beams are better than bolts.

Snakes and Brawlers can dodge your bolts.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013



The dragon boss in the slime tunnels has a ridiculous amount of retaliation damage. I one-shot myself two times in a row before I realized that I was being an idiot and started using only single-hit abilities.

Furry of Fists + Flexible Combat + Greater Weapon Focus meant I was hitting him enough times in one turn to take 1000+ damage from retaliation, plus whatever damage the boss was putting out himself.

The mage and melee bosses went down in 3-5 turns each, though.



Zereth posted:

I wonder if it's still practical to get Cleave and cut my way through the place to unlock Oozemancer. Do you need to do that before Zigur offers you Fungus for shanking the lightning guy? (Who spawned three squares form the stairs and went down before doing anything to me. )

The Oozemancer cave is 10 levels above Urkis' dungeon, so there shouldn't be a problem with your order there.

Jowy
Dec 4, 2007

Jesus Christ, it's a Pyro!

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

Furry of Fists



Really, this just shows that the only power capable of truly besting a Brawler is his own fists.

ChibiSoma
Apr 13, 2008

by FactsAreUseless


So apparently I had an epiphany and Cursed became super viable. About to enter the tier 2 dungeons and I'm doing really well for myself. I did run into the silliest thing ever in Trollmire, though.

I was just slowly making my way through, because I hadn't maxed Stalk yet and it was right after I screamed really hard at a sword so my Cursed Aura was still in Penalties. I get hit for half my health by something out of the blue. Then I see a rare. Mayylaith the White Wolf! Well that's fine, I wonder what shot me. I move, and get hit again, leaving me with very little health. I duck around a tree and heal, the rare pokes its head out where I can see it, and that's when I did a mouse-over.

"Thought-Form: Bowman"

But he wasn't alone, he had a minion: "thought-forged bowman" - also a wolf - and this one had Rapid Fire!

So there I was, still made of paper, being chased back to the zone exit by a couple of wolves, one of which wasn't real, shooting me with mind arrows! I love this game!

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


Angry Diplo's Corruptor post doesn't even begin to describe this class. I rolled one after getting annoyed at the starting zone of Archmage and holy gently caress. Time for more death metal

I steal people's blood. I steal their children's future, and I use it to fuel my filthy, filthy shenanigans. YOUR BLOOD? MINE. YOUR CHILDREN? MINE. YOUR HAPPINESS? MIIINNE.


Dirty D, Damnit is only level 7 and already shaping up to be hilarious. I haven't even hit turbo ebola yet and this is great. Everything to do with the Blood tree is amazing.

Magres fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2014 around 22:01

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


Magres posted:

Angry Diplo's Corruptor post doesn't even begin to describe this class. I rolled one after getting annoyed at the starting zone of Archmage and holy gently caress. Time for more death metal

I steal people's blood. I steal their children's future, and I use it to fuel my filthy, filthy shenanigans. YOUR BLOOD? MINE. YOUR CHILDREN? MINE. YOUR HAPPINESS? MIIINNE.


Dirty D, Damnit is only level 7 and already shaping up to be hilarious. I haven't even hit turbo ebola yet and this is great. Everything to do with the Blood tree is amazing.

Catalepsy will blow your loving mind.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008



Shadowblades continue to go poorly for me; if I can survive the first dungeon I completely wreck everything until level 20-25, and then I die and die and die and die and die.

Decided to roll up a Cursed. Is it worth taking the Cursed Aura tree?

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


ToxicFrog posted:

Decided to roll up a Cursed. Is it worth taking the Cursed Aura tree?
Try first without it, see how many Generic points you have to spare.

Cornacs can make good use if it, especially if they don't go anti-magic.

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


Magres posted:

Angry Diplo's Corruptor post doesn't even begin to describe this class. I rolled one after getting annoyed at the starting zone of Archmage and holy gently caress. Time for more death metal

I steal people's blood. I steal their children's future, and I use it to fuel my filthy, filthy shenanigans. YOUR BLOOD? MINE. YOUR CHILDREN? MINE. YOUR HAPPINESS? MIIINNE.


Dirty D, Damnit is only level 7 and already shaping up to be hilarious. I haven't even hit turbo ebola yet and this is great. Everything to do with the Blood tree is amazing.

Yeah, I think high-level corruptor might be my favorite job to imagine doing its thing. Some gross-rear end demon wizard walks into a room, starts spewing blood like a Bernini fountain, and then everything around him either sneezes its guts out through its mouth and then explodes or just straight up melts itself to death.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


Dodge Charms posted:

Try first without it, see how many Generic points you have to spare.

Cornacs can make good use if it, especially if they don't go anti-magic.

Yeah if you play Cornac, skipped Cursed Aura, and don't go AM you will fill up your trees completely with points and still have a bunch leftover.

I would say if you're not planning to get Cursed Aura, go AM, no exceptions. Even with racials, you're gonna have a hell of a lot of points to throw around.


Fungah! posted:

Yeah, I think high-level corruptor might be my favorite job to imagine doing its thing. Some gross-rear end demon wizard walks into a room, starts spewing blood like a Bernini fountain, and then everything around him either sneezes its guts out through its mouth and then explodes or just straight up melts itself to death.

Do you know, if splash damage from Overpower kills a dude, will the excess damage from that cause another Overpower explosion? If it does, there should be an achievement for having Overpower kill someone, then the resulting secondary explosion kill someone else - Overoverpower

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


Magres posted:

Do you know, if splash damage from Overpower kills a dude, will the excess damage from that cause another Overpower explosion? If it does, there should be an achievement for having Overpower kill someone, then the resulting secondary explosion kill someone else - Overoverpower

It used to, but DarkGod removed it. It was nuts while it lasted though, I think someone cleared the ambush in like two casts.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


Fungah! posted:

It used to, but DarkGod removed it. It was nuts while it lasted though, I think someone cleared the ambush in like two casts.

Now they clear the ambush in three casts

I can see why it needed to get taken out - if enemies are densely packed enough and weakened you get a nigh infinite damage loop that only ends because everything is dead. Sucks that it had to get taken out though, because it sounds rad as hell.

Stelas
Sep 6, 2010



RPATDO_LAMD posted:

Flurry of Fists + Flexible Combat + Greater Weapon Focus

I really wish brawler could get Battle Tactics for exactly this reason. It does make for a really fun Adventurer, though.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



Dodge Charms posted:

Try first without it, see how many Generic points you have to spare.

Cornacs can make good use if it, especially if they don't go anti-magic.

Cursed Aura is quite good but definitely doesn't synergize well with AM since you need all the generics you can get for AM/Fungus. A Skeleton Cursed really rocks it, though - the real gem of Cursed Aura isn't the actual auras but Ruined Earth, which reduces the damage of everybody around you by a pretty big percentage. Dropping Ruined Earth + Bone Shield (the racial version) is just tanky as hell.

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


Jazerus posted:

Cursed Aura is quite good but definitely doesn't synergize well with AM since you need all the generics you can get for AM/Fungus. A Skeleton Cursed really rocks it, though - the real gem of Cursed Aura isn't the actual auras but Ruined Earth, which reduces the damage of everybody around you by a pretty big percentage. Dropping Ruined Earth + Bone Shield (the racial version) is just tanky as hell.
That's very true, but it's also possible to just fill up your 50 levels of Generics with just:
- 20 in Combat Training (5 thick skin, 5 armour training, 5 weapon training, 5 accuracy)
- 20 in Skeleton racials (some people even 20/20 + catpoint this category)
- Cursed Form 1/5/1/1

IMHO the problem with Cursed Gear is that living dudes are heavily rewarded for going Anti-Magic, and undead dudes have such kickass racial trees.

EDIT: though I thought the "real gem" was Shrouds and maybe sometimes Cursed Sentry, I don't hear a lot of good things about Ruined Earth, could you elaborate on that?

jetz0r
May 10, 2003
Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.


Fungah! posted:

It used to, but DarkGod removed it. It was nuts while it lasted though, I think someone cleared the ambush in like two casts.

I didn't know I was supposed to lose in that ambush, it just looked like a harder boss fight to cap off the dungeon. So I popped my buffs, rushed up to the boss, flurried him away, rushed into the middle of the remaining clump and used whirlwind to blow them up. Then tried to keep myself alive while chasing down the few orcs that survived the explosion of stone, fire and orc bits that used to be an army.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Stelas posted:

I really wish brawler could get Battle Tactics for exactly this reason. It does make for a really fun Adventurer, though.

Thankfully, there's plenty of ways to get GWF on equipment.

Jowy
Dec 4, 2007

Jesus Christ, it's a Pyro!

Dodge Charms posted:

That's very true, but it's also possible to just fill up your 50 levels of Generics with just:
- 20 in Combat Training (5 thick skin, 5 armour training, 5 weapon training, 5 accuracy)
- 20 in Skeleton racials (some people even 20/20 + catpoint this category)
- Cursed Form 1/5/1/1

IMHO the problem with Cursed Gear is that living dudes are heavily rewarded for going Anti-Magic, and undead dudes have such kickass racial trees.

EDIT: though I thought the "real gem" was Shrouds and maybe sometimes Cursed Sentry, I don't hear a lot of good things about Ruined Earth, could you elaborate on that?

I don't really use Ruined Earth but it gets a lot of unfair treatment because 'well it reduces your damage too!!' which is true but the point is if you're in a lovely situation where you're not going to kill whatever is going to kill you first, then having a button that gives you time to try to heal back up/get away is kind of a nice thing to have. I mean it's not going to help you in every situation or anything but it can safely fall in the category of 'that one last ditch trick that might save your life'.

Along the same vein on Cursed/AM stuff, AM gets overrated a lot of the time because yeah Fungus is really good but people don't seem to remember they're giving up one of the best defensive abilities in the entire game (Stone Wall, which you can only get on arcane powered gear) for it, so it pretty much has to be really drat good to make the tradeoff worth it.

That's not to say AM is bad or anything obviously, just that it's not entirely without problems.

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


(snip good use for Ruined Earth)
Cool, I'll try using it that way next time I find it on some gear.


Jowy posted:

Along the same vein on Cursed/AM stuff, AM gets overrated a lot of the time because yeah Fungus is really good but people don't seem to remember they're giving up one of the best defensive abilities in the entire game (Stone Wall, which you can only get on arcane powered gear) for it, so it pretty much has to be really drat good to make the tradeoff worth it.

That's not to say AM is bad or anything obviously, just that it's not entirely without problems.
IMHO AM is brilliant for being able to ignore DoT, which is a thing that kills a lot of people who don't pay attention (including me), which is why AM is rated so highly.

If you pay more attention than I do, like mousing over your diseases when you get them rather than waiting for your screen to go red, then you might not get as much value from AM.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


I love AM because it let's me ignore my Regen infusions. At least, until I pop a wild and then die because my Regen won't auto use until infusion saturation is gone

At least two of my deaths and dozens of near misses on my Cursed were from that.

I think I might try a no cloak (except for required plot reasons like Sunwall, Last Hope, and the Derth arena) Skeleton Cursed. Undead Cursed make the most sense to me, flavor wise. Question about skeles though - does their stat boost racial bump your base or effective stat (ie does it contribute towards the 60 cap on stats or not)

Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



Dodge Charms posted:

That's very true, but it's also possible to just fill up your 50 levels of Generics with just:
- 20 in Combat Training (5 thick skin, 5 armour training, 5 weapon training, 5 accuracy)
- 20 in Skeleton racials (some people even 20/20 + catpoint this category)
- Cursed Form 1/5/1/1

IMHO the problem with Cursed Gear is that living dudes are heavily rewarded for going Anti-Magic, and undead dudes have such kickass racial trees.

EDIT: though I thought the "real gem" was Shrouds and maybe sometimes Cursed Sentry, I don't hear a lot of good things about Ruined Earth, could you elaborate on that?

Yes, but you get more than 50 levels of generics - Sandworm Queen Heart, the arena, the Last Hope alchemist, etc. all give you generics, so you aren't as starved as you appear to be. Plus 5 accuracy is overkill, and armor training above 3 is a really quite low priority.

Ruined Earth does reduce your damage, sure, but this is why you pop it and run. With Rampage it lasts for a very long time since all of your actions are fractional, and you can position guys so they're in it and you aren't. As Jowy said it's also very useful to do a mid-fight turtle and heal, where the reduced damage on you matters not at all. I don't think that RE is talked about much because apparently very few people ever bother with Cursed Aura.

Shrouds is good but you can't count on getting full power Shrouds without making that the priority, which means you might have otherwise-suboptimal equipment on. RE is guaranteed.

Magres posted:

I love AM because it let's me ignore my Regen infusions. At least, until I pop a wild and then die because my Regen won't auto use until infusion saturation is gone

At least two of my deaths and dozens of near misses on my Cursed were from that.

I think I might try a no cloak (except for required plot reasons like Sunwall, Last Hope, and the Derth arena) Skeleton Cursed. Undead Cursed make the most sense to me, flavor wise. Question about skeles though - does their stat boost racial bump your base or effective stat (ie does it contribute towards the 60 cap on stats or not)

Nothing changes base stats, not even racial penalties and bonuses, other than spending points at levelup.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at Jan 27, 2014 around 00:39

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Jowy
Dec 4, 2007

Jesus Christ, it's a Pyro!

Dodge Charms posted:

(snip good use for Ruined Earth)
Cool, I'll try using it that way next time I find it on some gear.
IMHO AM is brilliant for being able to ignore DoT, which is a thing that kills a lot of people who don't pay attention (including me), which is why AM is rated so highly.

If you pay more attention than I do, like mousing over your diseases when you get them rather than waiting for your screen to go red, then you might not get as much value from AM.

Yeah, it's a fair enough point. I still like AM quite a bit, but it's more a thing about wanting to take the time to remind everyone that Stone Wall is the poo poo.

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