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Squallege posted:I remember an episode of GT with Super Shoulders 17 who could absorb energy the same way 19 and 20 could. Goku's plan was to constantly shoot kamehamehas at it then try and blow himself up. That was possibly the stupidest thing that happened in all of Dragon Ball, including the rest of non-canon, like movies - and possibly a good percentage of fanfic is less stupid.
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Feb 3, 2014 22:09
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Cornwind Evil posted:Remember the original Ocean dub where they gave the Makkankosappo/Special Beam Cannon the properties of a literal laser and Radditz dodging it meant he could move, as a shocked Piccolo said, 'faster than the speed of light'?) Even though it was a bad dub - it was probably around that fast.  Remember, the most powerful, straight-forward blasts they had would get to the moon/out of the upper atmosphere/etc. pretty much immediately. And people were moving (not distance, but reaction, which is typical for anime) in many machs waaaayy back in Dragon Ball, before 5 or so huge power jumps (Krillin and Roshi having to slow down ridiculously for the crowd to see anything when going full out, Tao Pai Pai running after his thrown pillars, etc.). With all those silly exponential jumps, the "fastest" blasts (the most juiced up ones that just went straight, or stuff liek Freeza's finger beam) would probably be around that speed, and they were around that speed, themselves when they could finally react to that kind of stuff. It's easy to forget that they are -always- fighting at ridiculous super-speeds when watching the anime, obviously, but the manga pretty much reads that way entirely.
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Feb 25, 2014 17:03
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The best thing about Buu that people don't realize is that he's a genie. The last battle in Dragon Ball (before Battle of the Gods) was basically Toriyama saying that since pure power ends with Cell, let's just have the genie from Aladdin come in and see what happens.
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Mar 18, 2014 19:36
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Future Trunks is probably the only Z Fighter who isn't initially antagonistic in some capacity, and even then I seem to recall that the anime sort of played a 'WHO IS THIS MYSTERIOUS YOUTH AND IS HE FRIEND OR FOE?' angle at first. The kids in general are the only non antagonistic ones (Gohan/Goten/Trunks/Trunks). It still does a good job explaining why Goku lets so many people go. His best friends, including THE DEVIL, who constantly help save the world, are all reformed villains. Might as well give this galactic warlord a shot, too.
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Mar 19, 2014 16:42
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Silver2195 posted:By the way, back in Dragon Ball it was stated that people who are killed by "demons" like Piccolo don't go to the normal afterlife. This, of course, is seemingly contradicted when Piccolo kills Goku and Raditz during the Saiyan Saga. The best explanation I can come up with is that it's true of actual demons like the one who works for Baba, but whoever was explaining this (Roshi?) didn't know that Piccolo was actually a Namekian. Ma Jr. is a reincarnation of Piccolo like Uub is of Buu. Not exactly the same being; kind of a laundered soul. So, that makes it enough of an excuse to kind of ignore the old Dragon Ball thing (where Kami's negative side became the actual devil of the world since he was God).
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Mar 19, 2014 17:17
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crankdatbatman posted:Was Yajirobe antagonistic in his debut? All I remember is he killed Cymbal. When he met Goku, he was kind of a wildcard. Then Cymbal showed up and he ate him or something.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:28
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BlitzBlast posted:Yajirobe wisely decided to just stay away from all the bullshit and settle down with Korin. He is secretly the only DBZ character to have never died, or been in a state of "technically dead". Mr. Satan never died. Buu healed his gunshot would, but that's it - he still wasn't dead.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:26
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Blue Star posted:I have nothing to back this up with, but I've always assumed Piccolo was stronger than Nail before they fused. I'd put Piccolo at roughly the same as Captain Ginyu or a little stronger. Again, no reason, just head canon. Nail says he's a lot stronger, that's why his personality has no effect on Piccolo when they fuse, but almost just literally works as a boost. Also, Piccolo's training with Kaio-sama was...sitting in a corner and meditating.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:58
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BlitzBlast posted:Did you miss how both Raditz and Vegeta lost to people who were "weaker" than them? Both times the heroes pulled through with their heads, or in Gohan's case his weight I guess. Power levels illustrated all of that. They were just a visual identifier to provide a definitive point that the heroes had to progress to in order to defeat the bad guy. And they worked well for that. They started off in showing exactly how the ki manipulation battles (which became the new focus) worked. This guy is 2000, these guys are 800. But when they draw ki to do a kamehameha, they create an attack equivalent to a guy who is 1500. When Gohan gets mad, his power level spikes ridiculously, then falls. That was the advantage they had over the villains - they were mostly static and didn't understand ki manipulation to become better than their raw power level. It's not that power levels are bullshit, it's that the villains are crap at controlling their ki for the most part. Vegeta just surprises you by showing that he, too, figured out how to do similar when he fights Goku. This continued in the early parts of the Freeza saga (and also showed how the zenkai boost worked). Then, it changed focus. It started introducing people that were so powerful that "tricks" would cease to work, and near-death boosts would not be enough as well. Then it introduced a "last boss" with an unfathomable power that it looked like there was no real way to beat him. Then it stopped. After the Freeza saga, the focus stopped being on "unfathomably powerful enemies" and you already knew how the boosts and ki building worked so the power levels ceased to be useful at all and were thrown out. 19 and 20 showed up and were less powerful than the top tier heroes. 17 and 18 were about as powerful, but didn't run out of energy at all (so it focused on retaining energy). Then Cell showed up weaker than everyone, and was using the heroes' own tactics against them to get gradual power boosts, and then a BS power boost that made him a tier above everyone. Buu saga, and you once again have a villain that's equal to the top tier for the most part, but so ridiculously hard to kill (and had so many magic tricks up his sleeve) that he was hard to stop. So it's basically just a difference in focuses of the show, once it exhausted the "gradually more and more powerful" enemy thing that power levels signified.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:59
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KoB posted:18 kicked SSJ Vegeta so hard she broke his arm. They werent "about as powerful" at all. They outclassed everyone so much that they didnt give a poo poo and just went clothes shopping and stole cars and stuff. 17/18 were a notch above Vegeta, with the kicker being that they didn't drain energy while fighting. Vegeta fought 18 hard enough to annoy her, meaning that, as Roboto said, if it was one of their normal group fights, they would probably win, especially with Goku involved. Compare Vegeta vs. 18 to Vegeta vs. Freeza. Completely different presentation. They were also established as not really being villains. They were shown as "different" from the other androids in that they were just teens having a good time, with a pesky "gotta kill Goku one day" bit of programming in there. And then, soon after showing up, Piccolo, of all people, powered up to their level.
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Mar 25, 2014 20:32
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I've been looking at Battle of the Gods Director's Cut scenes today. Even Mr. Satan gets a showcase! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IzySRMKcjA Darko fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 18:55
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NeoHentaiMaster posted:Even though I liked the Android/Cell Sagas it always bugged me they came after Freeza. I mean Goku's battle with Freeza literally destroyed a planet. Even before Freeza put a time bomb in the core or whatever, just them sparring was literally wrecking the planet. The only reason it didn't kill millions in collateral damage as soon as it started was because almost everyone was already dead. The idea of something dwarfing Goku's and Freeza's power at the time is just ridiculous and they got around it by just not having the fights be nearly as intense. Even SSJ2 Gohan against Cell wasn't that nuts in comparison. poo poo, during the Namek fight Goku deflecting an attack Freeza fired off in just a few seconds destroyed a whole other planet. The Cell fights just made the planet shake, but I don't remember any randomly deflected energy beams even destroying small cities. Only certain attacks destroy planets because only certain attacks have big gently caress-off-explosive power. If you look at the Freeza saga, his most dangerous attack was a tiny beam that shot out of his finger. He could blow up planets with that ball-thing, yeah, but in a fight, a tiny quick focused beam is the worst thing ever (until SSJ Goku showed up and could tank it). They didn't aim any big gently caress-off explosive blasts down at the planet after the Freeza saga for that reason. When they did, it was a huge deal, normally used to trick Cell into tanking something or something similar. The villains didn't because they didn't want to blow up the planet (yet), the heroes because they obviously didn't.
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Mar 28, 2014 18:58
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bowmore posted:There are only two states of Vegeta, dick Vegeta and moustache Vegeta Not anymore, really. Current family man Vegeta is the nicest guy in the series.
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May 6, 2014 19:37
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Once the devil becomes your best friend and saves the planet with you multiple times because you had some good fights with him, it's understandable that you would give future enemies a chance to become friends. Goku's entire friend group is made up of reformed antagonists. How he handled Cell, etc. is overplayed for the bad dad meme (in the non abridged series). Chi Chi is utterly terrible when you count movies and anime in things, but not as bad in the manga. It's another one of those anime/manga differences.
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May 15, 2014 18:31
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Esroc posted:Really every character in GT that isn't Goku is worthless. That's the biggest reason it failed so spectacularly. As I said in a previous post, we can accept that it's going to be Goku who ultimately beats the Big Bad. We're all fairly cool with that. But at least in DB and DBZ the other characters would get a few good punches in before Goku had to step in and clean house. Eh, it's not even like that in the older series. Dragon Ball followed Goku as the protagonist only, and therefore, he basically did everything. Once the Z era started, it became a "group" manga, in which the current protagonist switched depending on the situation. - it started with Piccolo equal to Goku, and taking out the first bad guy in combination with him - Then everyone had to hold off Vegeta and Nappa and got a few moments before then to shine - Then a combo of Krillen, Gohan, and Yaijorobee(!) took out Vegeta - Then everyone but Goku had a chance to shine on Namek, with most of the big bad fight stages happening with them - Goku took out Freeza - Then Trunks took out Freeza/Cold - Vegeta got to take out 19, Piccolo, kind of 20 - Piccolo got the big fight with 17, Vegeta and Piccolo got to fight Imperfect Cells - Goku got to fight a 50% Cell for a bit, then Gohan ends up taking him out with a little side help - Gohan fights Dabura, Vegeta Majin Buu - Goku fights Majin for two seconds - Gotenks fights Super Buu - Gohan beats up Super Buu/gets beat up by Gotenks Buu - Vegito beats up Gohan Buu - Goku fights Kid Buu - a combo of Goku, Vegeta, and Mr Satan (!) take out Kid Buu It's pretty much the complete opposite of GT. Gt starts with some assists and minor villains that Trunks and Pan get to fight, and does have the dragons. but, in Z, all the main villains, outside of Freeza require assists, AND multiple people got to fight them and look good against various stages. GT turned into Dragon Ball with Goku doing EVERYTHING. That's a weird Toei thing, though. Toei has a "everyone but Goku is useless" thing going on, to the point where movie 13 has a song called "if Goku can't do it, who can?" (The movie where Goku invents a technique out of nowhere and is more powerful than Gotenks and Gohan who are both more powerful than him) When Toriyama writes stuff now, Goku is in the background and the kids fight (Yo! Goku), or he sucks and just happens to get the powerup needed, and still loses to the bad guy (Battle of Gods).
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May 22, 2014 16:54
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crankdatbatman posted:Sorry for the double post but I'm on my phone. I still don't see how you could argue narratively that the Buu Saga done without Goku's return would be a better ending than the Cell Saga. That way it just kind of sticks out as a weird story arch that hangs off of Dragon Ball, which is in short the legacy of Goku. The series is about Goku, no one really cares that Gohan can beat a bad guy by himself. The series isn't about Goku once Gohan is born, which I pointed out. Once Gohan is born, Goku stops saving the day for the most part, really (as compared to other people doing it), and the protagonist focus switches to whoever is around at the time. I mean, as soon as Gohan is born and the first villain comes, PICCOLO saves the day with a Goku assist. Goku isn't even in most of that era - he's dead after Raditz, hurt after Vegeta, sick with the androids, and dead with most of Buu. Pre-Gohan, the series almost entirely follows Goku, with a few tiny cutaways to Bulma and Roshi. Afterwards, the series follows everyone. Then GT turns into pre-Gohan again. Darko fucked around with this message at 14:50 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 14:48
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BlitzBlast posted:The Buu saga is objectively not very good, but it's really fun so hell if I care. The Buu saga is really good if you like the comedic aspects of earlier DB. It's the funniest arc, by far, of the post-Gohan era (Z).
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May 23, 2014 14:49
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Pyroi posted:Yeah, I mean, people who weren't part Space Monkey actually could be relevant.
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Jun 1, 2014 02:10
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The first season of Dragon Ball actually aired before Dragon Ball Z in America. It went straight from summoning Shenron to Gohan appearing, basically. Then years and years later, the original Dragon Ball aired past that point - around the time of the Buu saga, and no one cared.
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Jun 1, 2014 02:55
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Genocyber posted:My issue with DB->DBZ is the fights being more about flashy beams and straight up fights than weird poo poo, like the lady who seduced men to beat them easily, or the guy who won fights because he smelled so bad his opponents got knocked out. That's not all that true though. Radditz, Vegeta, and Nappa followed the pure strength pattern from Tenshinhan on. Then after Dodoria, you had stop time guy, big strong guy, two fast guys, and body switch guy. Then Freeza, and pure strength again. Then androids that could suck everyone's energy, then guy that has everyone's abilities that is weaker than everyone and has to mix those abilities with eating everyone to power up. Then guy that spit stone acid, wizard guy, guy that sucked your energy out... ...then pink genie that could turn people into candy and absorb people. There was actually a lot of variety in the Z section and a bit of fight creativity. It doesn't help that the anime emphasizes the punchy stuff over the other stuff to the point where punching has more episodes than anything else.
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Jun 1, 2014 03:02
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surf rock posted:Rewatching the History of Trunks movie after a few years, I'm pretty impressed by its quality relative to the other DBZ movies. Everything in it actually feels consequential, the motivations across-the-board are clear (as opposed to Vegeta showing up just because nobody else is allowed to fight Goku or whatever) and there are a lot of compelling elements to the fighting. That's because it's an OAV created around stuff Toriyama already worked up as opposed to a movie that Toei made up completely on their own.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:34
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Dragonatrix posted:Tien got wrote out of the role of strongest human by being retconned to be like 1% alien or some poo poo. Purely so Krillin could have something. There's no indication that Tenshinhan is stronger than Krillen, outside of the "I have a technique that actually saps from my life force as opposed to ki that could kill me if I do it that kind of held Cell down for a minute" move. No better than Krillen's "I can chop through anything when it's not the anime" technique, really." Krillen jumped ahead of Tenshinhan in the Freeza saga, and Tenshinhan had no real jumps after that point, and trained about as much for the same reasons.
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Jun 8, 2014 17:31
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TwoPair posted:My favorite part of the Cooler movie was Piccolo yelling "Christ, just use your Kienzan!" It stopped having a point after Freeza, really, because everyone started regenerating. As I said earlier, though, Tenshinhan just has a bullshit attack that is way more powerful than him/it should be because it draws from life force as opposed to ki. It managed to annoy Cell because it stopped him from flying upwards for a minute. Other than that, he's never shown to do nearly as much as Krillen. Krillen killed multiple Saibamen at once, Tenshinhan killed one. Kicks Recoome in the back of the head, fights Guildo ok enough with Gohan Cuts Freeza's tail off and avoids him for a while Tienshinhan: Kills one Saibaman Gets beaten up by Nappa and kills himself with an attack that only hurts Nappa's armor Holds Imperfect Cell down for a minute with his life force attack The reason why people assume Tien is stronger is that Toei hates Krillen because he's small and hypes up bulkier people or something, while Toriyama doesn't think that way. SAll the times you're thinking about Tien actually doing something is probably a Toei addition. - Toei has Tenshinhan doing better than Cell Jrs than Krillen. Not in the manga. - Has him actually doing something against Buu besides rescuing people - Has him fighting the Ginyu force on Kai's planet On the flip side, it has Krillen getting beat up/being useless MORE, like: - kienzan doing nothing against Cell - Getting beat up in dumb filler eps - having stupid girlfriends and failing at good kamehamehas in filler eps. Then the movies have Krillen being scared and useless comic relief in every single one, while Tenshinhan gives Trunks a good fight before Trunks decides to go super. It automatically shapes your viewpoint outside of the manga.
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Jun 10, 2014 14:57
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Thyrork posted:Well, encouraged by this thread i found myself watching a few of the DBZ movies and specials. The trunks one was alright, nicely filled that bit of backstory. Not just his minions. Look at it again  Bojack and his crew, Brolly's father, Turles' crew, and Lord Slug's crew are there. it's really funny that Gohan blew up Freeza so hard that the much more powerful Bojack ran off.
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Jun 10, 2014 15:04
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Had a good mix of slapstick and the fights were fun to watch for a change. Plus, there is something mildly cathartic about watching Gohan punch Frieza so hard it causes his minions to flee in horror. 
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crankdatbatman posted:Going to have to disagree here. Krillin gets more love than Tien in the manga because Krillin is and always was more of a central character than Tien. Even in the manga Krillin is never on Tien's level. Tien is easily the number 2 guy at the end of Dragon Ball and is pretty much considered on Piccolo's level before Piccolo's Kami power up (they at least get their rear end kicked by the androids with about the same effort). Yeah Tien might have a bullshit move, but Toriyama paints him as more powerful than Krillin all throughout the manga, he's just not as present as Krillin. This isn't true, really. You're gong by colored perspectives. I always viewed Krillen as a bit of a joke character, colored by the anime movies and me being younger and thinking that the big strong bald guy would of course be better than the little bald guy with no nose. It always made me view him as weaker, even when that was contradicted. However, if you look at progression: - Tien starts off as stronger than Krillen by a tier (going by Budokai placement) - Tien is again a tier ahead in the next Budokai - Tien's power level (ugh, I know, I know) is scanned to be around 30 above Krillen's. - When Vegeta/Nappa come and everyone train with Kami, Krillen is slightly ahead by demonstratable results - While Tien is dead chasing Bubbles around or whatever he's doing, Krillen gets a huge power up from the Elder Namek - They both do self-training from that point on and who knows So, right when they train for the Saiyans, it shifts towards Krillen. From that point on, it's very questionable because neither do anything of note, really, except get beat up and killed. edit: However, one was training with 18, the other with Chiatzu, soooo
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Jun 10, 2014 18:54
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I'm surprised people hate Cooler 2 so much. It was the last movie (unless you count Bio Brolly) where Krillen did ANYTHING resembling fighting, the fight with the first Metal Cooler is decent, and the side characters had their own side plot instead of it being -completely- about the Saiyans + a knocked out Piccolo like every movie after. The difference between the Toriyama movies (Yo! Son Goku, Battle of Gods) and the Toei ones is tremendous, though. The only one that even resembles Toriyama is Janenba and the part in Lord Slug when Gohan is whistling.
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Jun 20, 2014 18:41
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The best Dragon Ball game is Dragon Power, clearly.
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Jun 27, 2014 14:52
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Buu saga is awesome; it's just a return to the more comedic nature of Dragon Ball as opposed to super serious fighting stuff, and a lot of it is just self referential making fun of itself.
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Jul 6, 2014 15:26
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ManOfTheYear posted:DBZA is honestly the best thing in the history of the world. When I discovered it a couple of motnhs ago I have had that poo poo on loop almost every day. Editing and voice acting is top notch and the writing gives so much more personality to all the characters in the series. Absolutely amazing and I love it. It doesn't. It only works that way when you dwarf that opponent exponentially. If they're only twice as powerful, they would bruise/injure/bloody/knock out teeth (see Nappa, Reccoome). Also, other characters invented attacks that ignored power levels (kienzan). Power levels were mostly an immediate, visual way to show: a) That the hero characters exponentially raised their ki when doing certain attacks, thus showing why those attacks hurt stronger people b) Shows a direct comparison between characters to add drama. Freeza being the end point, since a power level in the millions was unfathomable/undefeatable quote:Why does high power level make you instantly faster and and better at hand-to-hand combat? Shouldn't power level only be something to affect your ki blasts and maybe reserves of ki? Shouldn't other attributes - punching and kicking, toughness, strength, speed - be completely different things that have nothing to do with your power level? Why some strikes and ki blasts can bust a hole into your body or dismember you while other can't? Several characters punch and blast holes into each other but apparently you can only do this if you have a higher power level, not counting Krillin's destructo disc that can cut everything. Why doesn't everybody use only this technique - Frieza and Vegeta can apparently also do it - because it supposedly can hurt anybody, no matter how strong? You don't really understand how ki works, from a mythological sense, which DBZ draws off of as a basis. Your inner spiritual energy, ki, can be used to up your physical attributes. Thus, speed, strength, toughness, etc. On top of that, ki masters could use their ki as all kinds of wacky things, levitation, telekinesis, bursts of invisible energy (thus, ki blasts), and magical stuff. DBZ is just a huge exaggeration of this. This was shown several times in the series, focusing ki in your attacks strengthened that, focusing it to bulk up would make one slower, using too much speed would lower ki (and obviously be using so much ki that it showed up on scouters), etc. You could raise it generally, or focus it everywhere at once. Or you could lower it (see Vegeta lowering his defense, so that Krillen could blast through him). quote:Why Trunks's sword can cut through Frieza but not the androids? Dr. Gero's early artificial humans were basically around early Goku's level. He kept improving his tech after Goku destroyed Red Ribbon to the point of them being later Goku level. Artificial humans 9-15 were probably gradual improvements that didn't measure up to Goku, so he kept trying. Humans have the best technology in Dragon Ball. Time machines, hyper speed space travel, capsules that pop out cars and houses all over the world, dragon radars, etc. That's because they have the best inventors in the galaxy, Bulma and Briefs on that planet. Similarly, they have the best artificial human maker in the galaxy on the planet as well. Dr. Briefs doesn't share how he made his inventions with everyone, and Gero is a giant dick, so he doesn't either, quote:Why humans have fighter planes and battle ships and aliens use blasters? It's established that martial artists can become super beigns and fly and shoot energy and destroy anything, so why would there be any need for weaponry? Just have armies of martial arts warriors. Apparently the Z guys are the only people on planet with these kinds of abilities, so why only them? Why doesn't the world revolve around them? Even Yamcha could conquer to world by himself, so why aren't internationally recognized superstars/threats? Why Goku can have a heart attack, despite being a superman? Humans are only a little above real world levels in technology, except that they have Dr. Doom/Reed Richards/Tony Stark type geniuses living on the planet. This gives the world capsule tech and crazy cyborgs and stuff. Roshi was a one in a million martial artist, and he couldn't even fly. You only had around 4 people who knew any kind of ki blasts, the higher martial artists after them were somewhat superhuman and worked for the number one crime syndicate in the world, and everyone else just smelled really bad or could be beaten up by Mr. Satan. All of them were classic martial art fiction guys that lived out in the middle of nowhere, in deserts, and on islands. The world martial arts tournament was just an underground thing like Bloodsport or something. You had an era when a few guys just popped up out of nowhere that could challenge the old school people (Krillen, Goku, Tenshinhan, Chauzu, Yamcha), and Roshi, etc. thought that was insane. All this stuff started becoming common knowledge after Piccolo started blowing up everything. Before then, it was just a bunch of old guys that wer basically just legends. Even after that, they were so uncommon that Satan could win the newer publicized tournaments. Goku caught an alien virus. quote:The list is endless and none of it makes any sense, but God damnit if I don't love every second of it. it's just such a fun and werid world and TFS is just making it even better. Dragon Ball actually has one of the most internally consistent worlds in that kind of fiction, which is surprising. A lot of it makes sense, in context, it's just that the Internet (most of which is just remembering some of Z from their childhoods) exaggerates a lot of things and then forgets the others/explanations for them all. Kind of like the "Goku is a terrible dad" thing that gets blown up or is based on forgotten things or filler (GT).
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Jul 7, 2014 19:38
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Yeah, putting the crossover into play, they have a robot that stomps planets into other planets, so...
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Jul 7, 2014 20:05
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Man of the Year, A lot of DB is a play on other things. It's easy for most Americans to recognize the Superman homages, but not necessarily the Monkey King homages, or the references to shinto afterlife, etc. Dragon Ball is a really weird world because it combines: Superman and American comics Buddhism Shinto Pro Wrestling Eastern Mythology Christian mythology The Monkey King Sci Fi ...and other things into one series as Toriyama's mood changed. It started as Journey to the West and then became a crazy wacky world with influences from his other series.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:46
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NikkolasKing posted:This is why I only enjoy Kid Goku and detest his adult self. Kid Goku was endearing in how naive and simple he was and he made no pretense that he understood anything about love or protecting the world. He straight up went to murder Tambourine after what he did to Krillin. He's almost exactly the same guy. The only difference is that he kills less when he's an adult because The Devil became his friend, so he thinks anyone will become a fun rival later on. You must be picking that up from the American dub. Besides giving him a more typical "heroic" voice, they also added "heroic" lines to make him more of a typical hero. The manga version mostly just got mad when people indiscriminately killed others, or killed his friends, just like when he was a kid, really.
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Jul 8, 2014 00:25
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Again (we talked about this one month ago), Goku, being a grown manchild with mental deficiencies (which is often missed by people who grew up on the American dub, and one small advantage of having the Japanese VA never change her voice for him from childhood to adult), made a bunch of understandable-from-his-perspective mistakes with parenting, but was generally well-meaning at heart. And the series always called him to task for doing such things. His bad parenting is often hugely overplayed by the Internet, who typically exaggerate due to passing memes around as opposed to knowledge of the original source material. This goes on the growing list with "Superman destroyed Metropolis in Man of Steel" and "Welcome to Earf" with things that are misreported and passed on as fact.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:34
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CharlestheHammer posted:I guess I just don't see the exaggeration? I dunno, I think the weird explaining it away stuff is dumber. - He spent the entire time from the end of Dragon Ball to the beginning of Z with his family, even though he only married Chi Chi because he promised to, when he thought it just meant him getting food. - His crazy Saiyan brother showed up and told him there were a bunch of scary people in space he needed to worry about. He got killed stopping him from taking his son. - He comes back to life, is promptly beaten up and out of commission for a while. - He shows back up when his son is on death's door fighting an evil alien emperor, makes him leave so he doesn't get killed, beats up the emperor, barely escapes, and ends up on a planet of people that help him and teach him to teleport. - He comes back to earth, learn some crazy androids are coming that are worse than the emperor, trains with his son and his son's demon godfather for years. - Trains with his son directly for another year when he learns about Cell. Spends a week with his son and his family. - Because of training with his son for like 4 years straight, starts to think of him too much as one of his chummy fighters as opposed to his son. Lets Cell beat him up some because of that because he knows how much more powerful he is. Piccolo makes him realize this, and he realizes his mistake and reverts. Ends up getting killed. - Blames the past 8 or whatever years of trouble on him being around (Radditz brought Vegeta/Freeza, Gero brought the androids). Stays dead because of that. - The world is peaceful for years. He knocked up Chi Chi before dying, whoops. He comes back to life for a day to hang out with his family and friends and go to the tournament. Buu shows up. Stuff happens. - He asks for Buu to be reincarnated as a nice guy. He spends years with his family again, goes to a tournament, sees the nice guy, and says he's going to train him and poofs off. The Internet forgets about all the intervening years he spent with family, why Goku handled the Cell fight wrong (spending literal years straight training with his son and thinking of him as a fighter as opposed to a kid, which was the entire point of the sequence), and also takes GT as fact (which had Goku literally go off and train Uub for like 10 years or something as opposed to training him and popping back in to be with family).
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Jul 9, 2014 20:14
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Rudoku posted:Vegeta didn't get tossed off a cliff as a baby. Vegeta also doesn't have a confirmed pure, innocent heart that lets him fly on a cloud.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:We don't forget, they just aren't important, like no one says he spends literally no time with his family, just that he takes time off and abandons them really easily. At least three times for dumb as gently caress reasons. The end of the Frieza, Cell, and Buu sagas are it. Also I don't take GT as if I remember correctly GT actually makes it seem he comes back while I believe then end of DBZ has him literally saying "I am going to live in his village with him to train him" which is pretty cut and dry. He was healing on Yardat for months, then learned they had a teleportation technique and stayed there for a year, learning it and learning to go SSJ without going crazy angry while doing it. That was selfish in theory, but he probably thought he needed to learn that stuff. He then died and blamed himself for stuff always happening and decided to stop using the Dragon Balls to bring himself back. That made sense from his perspective. Not a great move, but it made sense. Goku was gone ~9 years on his own (year and a half - 2 years between Freeza and Trunks, 7 years dead). Goku was with Chichi/Gohan for 6 years from Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Z. Trained with Gohan/Piccolo for 3 years. Spent a year in the room of space and time with Gohan. Came back to life and fought Buu and stayed with his family for ten years farming and stuff - Uub. So that's 20 years, in the series. So, he spent double the time in the series with his family as dead or gone. Darko fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 01:31
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ImpAtom posted:Being pure of heart doesn't mean you're also not kind of a shithead about a lot of things! Intent is a lot. It shows things like "I'm going to stay dead" were actually made to the best of his reasoning ability and legitimately made for that reason as opposed to selfish reasons. The intent of the series was always that he had their best wishes at heart and thought he was doing things for the good of everyone, even if he did get hit on the head as a baby and was pretty dumb.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:33
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Genocyber posted:I'm pretty sure you're putting way more thought into this than Toriyama ever did. Dragon Ball is a surprisingly clean, consistent series - one of the best when it comes to keeping characters generally together, and progressing cleanly with very few plotholes. He changed his mind about things over time, and seems to have forgotten a bit when he quit writing, but he obviously cared a lot while writing it. It's really the anime that introduces most of the plot holes/issues with the series - it's actually surprising how well the manga flows.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:57
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Saiyaman is either going to be Gohan having a psychotic break or him being so happy his dad is gone.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:52
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Dred Cosmonaut posted:I literally scoff when I see Mr. Satan instead of hercule Dragon Ball was the most widely available fansub available in the early 90s. A ton of Internet people ran across it back then before it aired here, just because it was extremely popular to the point where a lot of people ran across it over the years without searching it out very hard. I ran across it in elementary school, for instance, and that was the late 80s. In the mid 90s, when fansites and such first started cropping up, everyone basically used the Romanji translations of everything. I mean, you -hear- the characters saying Saiyajin, Tenshinhan, Kuririn, etc. so that's what you wrote, because there was no "official" version. If you were calling a character Tenshinhan for 15 years, switching to "Tien" isn't necessarily going to be a normal thing. It's different for the generation that grew up on the dubs, then it's more of a "purist/elitist" thing. Also:  edit: The names don't really have official ways of saying them for the most part. It's just whatever is familiar to you, which depends on how you were exposed. Darko fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 16:25
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