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Best Producer/Showrunner?
This poll is closed.
Verity Lambert 49 7.04%
John Wiles 1 0.14%
Innes Lloyd 1 0.14%
Peter Bryant 3 0.43%
Derrick Sherwin 3 0.43%
Barry Letts 12 1.72%
Phillip Hinchcliffe 62 8.91%
Graham Williams 3 0.43%
John Nathan-Turner 15 2.16%
Philip Segal 3 0.43%
Russel T Davies 106 15.23%
Steven Moffat 114 16.38%
Son Goku 324 46.55%
Total: 696 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

Jerusalem posted:

Plus the Krillitane work better in concept than execution, and the CGI for them has dated so badly that it makes it hard to take them seriously. I think even the Reapers in Father's Day stand up better than the Krillitane do, and I'm glad that all CGI monsters appear to have gone somewhat by the wayside in favor of practical effects.
A lot of the problem with the CGI is they kept trying to stick the crap models up in the camera, which would look just as unconvincing with practical effects. Now if only they would have the same realization about animating agile monsters in full focus...


IIRC School Reunion had production problems which caused some of the continuity issues with the monster plot and explains why they keep switching locations for no particular reason. Wiki stuff says asbestos in one of the schools, but I remember there being more to it.
I somehow doubt this episode would've seen the light of day if Doctor Who was considered a Family Show in the US. Grade schoolers get eaten by the evil teachers who are drugging them smart through the school lunch program, Mickey rams a car through the front doors, and the Doctor (via K-9) blows up the school to kill the (evil) school staff, cue great cheers from the students.

I enjoy all the high character points of the episode, but I find it really hard to look past the dire Catty Companions bit (and I hate that it became (and continues) a recurring joke).
It's also kinda problematic that the "He hates goodbyes" explanation for ditching Sarah Jane doesn't make sense unless you have no context outside this episode, which is a bit odd considering that's the point of referencing her character. He didn't want to watch Sarah Jane decay and die from having to call a taxi home at the incredibly advanced age of ~30? Way to be shallow, Doctor.

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Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

Timby posted:

Are the audios just a lost cause for me?

I have the same problem with audio versions of books, but (from the couple I've heard) the Doctor Who audios run more like radio plays. It may make a difference.
In addition to the other suggestions, audio stuff is great for anything that requires a bunch of manual work without a lot of active problem solving. Chores and cleaning, DIY, lawn/garden. Hobbies with big stretches of repetition like woodwork, knitting, videogame grinding, etc.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

Floorgazer posted:

I find it really hard to explain to people why I like this show sometimes. Pretty much everything post-Davison and pre-revival is pretty embarrassing to be caught watching. Dealing with people who call it "My Little Pony in space" makes it an uphill battle, really.

Sometimes you enjoy a thing in-spite-of. Sometimes you enjoy a thing for what it could be, rather than for what it is. And sometimes you just really enjoy laughing at rubbish monsters and scenery chewing.
You don't have to defend its honor or evangelize, just explain what you like and shrug at the rest, like you would while watching. People who can't get that and/or admit there's something they like the same way, that's usually a warning sign anyway.

For instance the quoted person likes videogames and anime, which are sugar-glass houses to be throwing stones from (I say with authority as a person who likes videogames). They wouldn't have gotten the same response out of comparing Doctor Who to Adventure Time.


edit: I shouldn't phone post

Spindle fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Mar 8, 2014

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich
Caecilius is the 12th Doctor in disguise and he's taking Amy for one last trip.

There's also Martha's cousin. They probably didn't bother doing the same with Amy (besides it being silly) because she's hooded and in full face makeup, and doesn't have much non-group screen time beyond sneaking behind the Doctor. Her character doesn't have a unique name, and I'm not sure she has any solo dialog.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich
Fandom episodes are usually terrible because of their self-indulgent nature, it's funny how that aspect is the least offensive thing in Love & Monsters.
Trivia: Originally the frame story with Elton in the loft had bits with his "mom" yelling from downstairs, to drive home what a loser basement attic dweller he is. After the reveal she turns out to be his landlady, iirc.

You're right-on about the episode having the feel of something bumbled because of outside meddling. If I didn't know better, I would've pegged the tone whiplash as someone poorly pasting together a writers' workshop. Some of the blame belongs to the director, though, because there are scenes that fall completely flat and go on forever.

Jerusalem posted:

The reveal that he has been absorbing Elton's friends into his body is immediately followed by a bad-taste joke about one of their faces being trapped on his rear end-cheek.
And this is the heartbroken mother who joined the group because it gave her an excuse to come to London and search for her missing daughter. Fart joke!

Jerusalem posted:

That's also one of the first signs of an unfortunate RTD tendency to palette swap aliens so people can "hilariously" mistake them for the wrong race
I forgot this- who does it this time? It's the Doctor, isn't it.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

Jerusalem posted:

Perhaps, IF Morris is reluctant to hand over stuff he MIGHT have found, it's down to a fear that once they're handed over it is going to be harder for him to drum up the interest/financing to go hunt up other missing shows, so he has to drip-feed stuff while following up other leads?

Anything people weren't willing to finance probably wouldn't make enough money to pay for itself (which applies to Doctor Who as well), but it would fit if one of those other shows is his pet project. Also completed serials are worth more than single episodes.
Regardless, he can make more money in the long run by doling them out every few years rather than allowing the BBC to negotiate him into selling the lot. And if he enjoys the attention, well.

Nobody should be playing into scolding the internet, though. Besides being lovely, that directly hands him a bargaining chip when screaming at the ocean fails to work.

PriorMarcus posted:

If Morris does have a collection of missing Doctor Who episodes and for any reason he isn't handing them over then that's awful. I fully believe that the preservation of film is deeply important for the art world, and turning it into a selfish agenda for any reason is pretty awful.

Agreed, but this is the unfortunate consequence of allowing the recovery to be a treasure hunt rather than financing it directly. Take comfort in that if he does have them, they're safer than they were rotting in someone's basement.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich
Probably from Closing Time.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

Maxwell Lord posted:

Honestly the Rani always struck me as a neat character. She's a "villain" who isn't really necessarily about gaining power or control- she's just a scientist with no ethics whatsoever. Mark of the Rani was kind of a muddle, but I remember enjoying it. Time and the Rani less so, but even that wasn't the character's fault so much as the intense "Remember we're a kiddie show!" pressure they were feeling at the time.

It's a shame she was used as a generic mad scientist (and the problematic message that comes packaged with) rather than playing into how Time Lords could terribly abuse their power because of their detachment.
She's become a fan grudge mostly as a symbol of that era's bad decisions rather than because of her character potential or lack thereof.

edit: Also despite the cheap set, her first Tardis console is pretty great.

Spindle fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jun 29, 2014

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich
All in the name of developing smash-in-emergency beakers of instant T-rex.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich
Thanks for the update on the approved opinion of unaired episodes, I hope we keep getting these every day.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

DoctorWhat posted:

It was more that there were people who for one reason or another really wanted him not to count and through sheer loudness and perceptual gravity were able to keep that bizarre opinion on life support for a ridiculous amount of time.
Eh. The TV movie as it stands is just kinda goofy and ignorable. But fans of that era would've known all about the poorly conceived retcon / re-imagining that it was meant to be, and would've emerged had it succeeded. I don't really blame them for trying to bury it from that standpoint. It's also part of the fandom rejection of the Cartmel Masterplan, since a lot of the TV movie's changes are telephone game interpretations or thematically similar. Iirc, the 7th Doctor being in the movie was controversial because he was seen as the Doctor who killed the show, and the BBC wanted a clean break.

Ignoring the new Doctor and declaring him non-canon until the next one is "worse" is a tradition, all the way back to Troughton. It just hit the 8th Doctor a bit harder because of the gap before and after.


Jerusalem posted:

I do wonder if McGann would have been just relegated to the dustbin of history if he didn't have such a strong presence in the Big Finish audios

Probably. One mediocre tv movie where most of the people who remembered it were hostile, and the rights issue had hosed things up for so long that you had to pirate to see it at all. I doubt the handful of novels would've counted for much.

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Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich

Jerusalem posted:

I don't know if there was an overwhelming consensus one way or the other when it aired, but I remember watching it and thinking that for all the stuff it got wrong, the casting of McGann was spot on and I really wanted to see more of him as the Doctor. Which we ended up getting, happily!

Yeah, I should clarify. I was talking from the fandom historical / production-side angle, not my opinion.

I don't think the movie is good- I think its main sin is how 90s sci-fantasy generic it is -but there are worse bits of Who. It's more interesting from a forensic look at how RTD took its base elements and turned it into the revival.
Putting that aside, I do like the 8th Doctor (and McGann in general). Really great that he finally got his on-screen regeneration.

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