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Best Producer/Showrunner?
This poll is closed.
Verity Lambert 49 7.04%
John Wiles 1 0.14%
Innes Lloyd 1 0.14%
Peter Bryant 3 0.43%
Derrick Sherwin 3 0.43%
Barry Letts 12 1.72%
Phillip Hinchcliffe 62 8.91%
Graham Williams 3 0.43%
John Nathan-Turner 15 2.16%
Philip Segal 3 0.43%
Russel T Davies 106 15.23%
Steven Moffat 114 16.38%
Son Goku 324 46.55%
Total: 696 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Diabolik900
Mar 28, 2007

Griff Lee posted:

How many times has the Doctor given a version of this exact speech?

In general, I agree that Moffat has gone to this particular well too many times, but I like it in this case for two reasons. First, Matt acts the hell out of it, and second, this time, the big speech doesn't actually work.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Diabolik900 posted:

In general, I agree that Moffat has gone to this particular well too many times, but I like it in this case for two reasons. First, Matt acts the hell out of it, and second, this time, the big speech doesn't actually work.

It doesn't in The Pandorica Opens either, his big speech and the way all the aliens are too "terrified" to make the first move ends up being a deliberate bluff to lull the Doctor into a false sense of security. It works pretty well as a subversion of 11's scolding/scaring off of the Atraxi in The Eleventh Hour - he starts his first season using his reputation to intimidate a big alien menace, and ends the season having this predilection used against him.

You could argue the same thing happens in A Good Man Goes To War as well. In fact, I think the Doctor may have had his big speeches fail/get turned around on him more often than they have succeeded.

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Thunderfinger posted:

Again, is anyone having trouble buying stuff from Big Finish? When I go to buy something, it keeps saying that the bank is not authorizing the purchase with my credit card even though I have used it for other things just fine. I never had this problem with them before.

I had that problem the first time I ordered from them. But I called my bank and straightened it out. No problems ever since. At this point, I order something from Big Finish about once a week.

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

That doesn't mean it's not the same scene repeated over and over again. It was cool in Pandorica Opens when they inverted it but from then on it's been tiresome.

Wasn't he meant to be trying to be smaller? Why did we piss away half a season on that idea?

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
Alternative titles could include "Adventures of Anglo Space Jesus" or simply "Superfriends".

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Jerusalem posted:

It doesn't in The Pandorica Opens either, his big speech and the way all the aliens are too "terrified" to make the first move ends up being a deliberate bluff to lull the Doctor into a false sense of security. It works pretty well as a subversion of 11's scolding/scaring off of the Atraxi in The Eleventh Hour - he starts his first season using his reputation to intimidate a big alien menace, and ends the season having this predilection used against him.

You could argue the same thing happens in A Good Man Goes To War as well. In fact, I think the Doctor may have had his big speeches fail/get turned around on him more often than they have succeeded.

It didn't do much to scare that rabbit either.

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Neddy Seagoon posted:

It didn't do much to scare that rabbit either.

The Best Usage of that bit.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

So before this rewatch I had only watched Love and Monsters once, and never returned to it. That first screening was the first time I ever watched an episode of Doctor Who and thought afterwards,"I don't know if I want to watch this show anymore." Not even The Twin Dilemma or either of The Rani stories had done that to me, but L&M just left me in horror over how incredibly godawful it was. So I wasn't particularly looking forward to watching it again, and having now done so I'm not in any particular hurry to watch it again. That said, I can now safely say that this story is definitely NOT the worst episode of Doctor Who ever made, and that my memory made it worse than it actually was. Don't get me wrong, it's still not good, and I would hesitate to even call it "not that bad" because it IS bad, it's a bad episode... but it isn't the worst, and there is a surprising amount of good content in it, as well as a very admirable concept that unfortunately just completely derails into madness and stupidity and overly camp territory. It's as if RTD died halfway through writing the story, then Eric Saward completed it and quit in a huff and they couldn't use anything he'd written (including CONCEPTS) so they said gently caress it and asked Pip'n'Jane to do it (and also to come back the next week the write the final couple of minutes of Fear Her).

Let's start with what is good about it. At its heart, this episode is a very sweet story about a lonely young man who finds friendship and then love. It's about social outcasts, lonely people and the very human need for companionship. What draws these people together is a mutual interest in the Doctor, but what keeps them together is the bonds they form and the pleasure they get from each other's company. Elton is almost quasi-Donna in the way he constantly seems to be on the periphery of major events, constantly searching for meaning and answers in his life, blind to the ones that are right in front of him. There is a very fun sense in the early parts of the story that (quite deliberately) disappears later on, a sense that the whole thing isn't meant to be taken seriously, which is later contrasted with the very "serious" turn intended to appear silly (and going too far over the line).

Elton's narration means that the whole story has a very exaggerated feel, you get the sense that you're not so much seeing what happened to him as a mixture of what he remembers happening with a little unintentional hyperbole added in his effort to make a more enjoyable story. This is most explicitly seen in the pre-credits sequence as he watches the Doctor, Rose and an alien called the Hoix rush about a corridor of doorways in a very Scooby-Dooesque fashion. This sets the scene for the whole story to come, but while the slightly exaggerated "story" framework does work as a whole, that scene in particular stands out to me as an example of RTD trying a little too hard to be comedic, which is what derails the latter half of the story. Comedy is very hard to do well, especially when it is predominant in an episode rather than just appearing in particular moments - if the jokes work, then great, but if they don't then the whole thing ends up falling flat on its face. One scene that does work particularly well is Elton's "seduction" of Jackie, and I'd argue that what makes it work so well is that it is used as set-up for the touching moment where Elton realizes that Jackie is just like him - a very lonely person desperate for companionship.... which also serves as the eureka moment where he realizes not only that he has lost sight of what made the LINDA meetings so compelling, but of his (reciprocated) feelings for Ursula. It is a very humanizing moment for Jackie, who like Mickey started life as an almost entirely comedic character and has gradually revealed that there is more to her than just some cheap and simple sight-gags.

There is also an argument to make that the entire story is an analogy for Doctor Who fandom as a whole. Take LINDA as a group - you have the guy who wants to discuss the notion of the Doctor as an archetype; the guy who doesn't know WHY he is so enthralled with Doctor Who other than it being a vital part of his childhood; the lady looking for an avenue for her creative expression; the lady enjoying the sense of being part of something larger; the lady suffering from a family tragedy who looks to the Doctor as a distraction. They're all brought together by their mutual fascination with the Doctor, but once they do get together they quickly begin to branch out and grow as people and as friends. The Doctor starts becoming secondary and even tertiary to their get-togethers, which become more about having fun together, sharing/pooling their creative output and being there as support for each other. Then into this happy and supportive world steps Victor Kennedy, who insists everybody stop having a good time and devote themselves to poring through the continuity and turns the whole thing into a job, all for HIS personal benefit. It is probably a step too far to say that Kennedy is Ian Levine in all but name, but a self-important windbag who dictates what the other fans should be doing and sucks all the fun out of a room is a type I'm sure many people have encountered when discussing a favorite thing, whether that be television or film or literature or sports or anything. Elton's realization of what is really important to him is a powerful moment, and his rejection of Kennedy and the plunge he takes in asking (well, half-demanding!) Ursula for a date mark the moment he fully comes into his own as a character.... and that is where the wheels come off of this episode.

I don't mind Peter Kay at all, though I've seen him in relatively few things, but he is terrible in this part. To be fair to him, it IS a terrible part and I doubt many could have pulled it off. The fact Kennedy is deliberately meant to be an unappealing rear end in a top hat doesn't change the fact that Kennedy is an unappealing rear end in a top hat. He has such an enormous and immediate impact on the story and throws the whole thing off of its stride, an intentional but ill-executed idea to show how disruptive his presence is. The episode moves from a sweet and earnest story about a naive young man into unpleasant camp focusing far too much on the loathsome Kennedy. He's unpleasant before the reveal of what he is, and once he is revealed as the Abzorbaloff things just get worse. As a monster he's an awful mixture of revolting and ridiculous, played with far too much self-awareness. This is the kind of monster that Ricky Gervais made fun of in Extras when he was cast as a monster in Doctor Who, and it's just embarrassing to see it in the modern show. At least Sil in the classic series had the excuse of being around at a time when the budget was literally whatever JNT could scrape out from between his couch cushions. Self-aware or not, the Abzorbaloff is every bad stereotype about classic Who monsters rolled into a campy, over-acted package. The humor is bad taste as well as being just plain bad, robbing any of the supposedly poignant moments of any impact. The reveal that he has been absorbing Elton's friends into his body is immediately followed by a bad-taste joke about one of their faces being trapped on his rear end-cheek. The Abzorbaloff also looks so utterly ridiculous and unthreatening that even the child who created it (as a contest entry to design a monster) was disappointed, having envisaged it as a gigantic monster laying waste to city streets and absorbing dozens of people at a time. RTD just can't seem to commit to what he wants - is it comedy? tragedy? Both? Is the Abzorbaloff meant to be a terrifying monster or a campy joke? He has absorbed people into him to die a long, slow and agonizing death and yet they have a whole section where the Doctor engages in a bizarre bit of back and forth about his home planet. That's also one of the first signs of an unfortunate RTD tendency to palette swap aliens so people can "hilariously" mistake them for the wrong race (though at least in this case it's not just a blue Slitheen or something) and the "natural comedy" of saying very long names repeatedly. There is a sense of schizophrenia, nobody seems to be taking the tragedy seriously, Elton even going so far as to comment on this when Rose shows up to berate him for upsetting her mother when he's clearly a second away from being attacked by a fat, green, leering alien. The "triumph" of the victims destroying the Abzorbaloff feels utterly unearned too, and a bit of nonsense from the Doctor - he clearly hadn't seen an Abzorbaloff before, what made him think the absorbed humans would be able to do anything? It all smacks badly of running out of time and writing,"Then the monster died somehow" in the script.

What's worse is the epilogue, as a great deal of Elton's growth is thrown aside in favor of a "happy" ending that is anything but. Elton has lost everything, but he has also potentially gained a new perspective on what he should be doing with his life. But all that gets arrested when the Doctor whips out his Sonic Screwdriver and "saves" Ursula, leaving her a face in a paving stone living on Elton's windowsill. From a "romantic" point of view it's supposed to be something along the lines of Elton and Ursula being two connected souls and the physical side of things being secondary to the importance that the two are just together. But honestly all I see from the epilogue is Elton clutching on to his past again and refusing to move on - his dead mother has been replaced by an "immortal" girlfriend who is utterly dependent on him for everything. Sure she doesn't need to eat or sleep (or does she?) but she's also immobile, trapped in a hellish half-life potentially forever, all because Elton the man-child is still stuck in his dependent rut. Surely a better ending would have been for him to have lost Ursula and ended his video diary with a decision that he was going to honor her memory by actually getting out there and living his life. They both claim happiness with their lot in the end, but by the tone of much of his final scene and the frequent use of imagery of urban decay throughout the episode itself, I can't help but see it as Elton grinning and bearing it, not happy at all with how things have worked out. They both try to put a brave face on it ("We've even got a bit of a love life") but I think neither is left particularly happy about how things have ended up. There is even an explicit warning there about the impact the Doctor has on people's lives, one that plays into the ongoing storyarc for Rose:

Elton posted:

So, there you go, turns out I've had the most terrible things happen... and the most brilliant things. And sometimes, well, I can't tell the difference - they're all the same thing. Stephen King said once salvation and damnation are the same thing, and I never knew what he meant. But I do now. Because the Doctor might be wonderful, but thinking back, I was having such a special time. Just for a bit. I had this nice little gang, and they were destroyed. It's not his fault, but maybe that's what happens if you touch the Doctor. Even for a second. I keep thinking of Rose and Jackie. And how much longer before they pay the price.

It's a very pessimistic ending, blunted somewhat by the attempt to paint Ursula's continued existence as a happy thing, and Elton's philosophy as a generally more optimistic one - "The world is so much stranger than that. It's so much darker, and so much madder.... and so much better." - it comes across as trying to be uplifting, but for me all I could feel was a sense of despair for this poor, sweet and ultimately blameless young man. His life was wrecked, he slowly began to get better, his life was wrecked again but he made a stand and turned a corner... and then his life was wrecked again and he "settled" for the hand fate had dealt him and failed to move on with his life.

If only the episode could have decided which way it wanted to go and stuck with it, this COULD have been a good episode. It's not. It's a bad episode, just not as bad as I remembered. In the end Love and Monsters is an admirable experiment forced on the show by the inclusion of the Christmas Special into the already packed shooting schedule. Marc Warren and Shirley Henderson are always enjoyable in whatever they're in so it was nice to see them, but Peter Kay overshadows everything with a far too campy turn, and by the time he becomes the Abzorbaloff the entire thing becomes a campy farce that makes the odd attempt to veer back into something deeper, and just continually derails itself. That failure to stick to a direction really hampers the story, along with the deliberately exaggerated elements of the narrative, the uninspired execution of a child's design for the monster, and the initial struggles to work out how to film a "Doctor-lite" episode. When viewed in light of the season as a whole, it does provide yet another example of the very real dangers Rose has been exposed to and how easy it is to lose your life in your pursuit of the Doctor, as well as further rounding out Jackie's character. There is also another nod to Torchwood (though if the Abzorbaloff could so easily access their files it is no wonder they turned out to be such a joke) as well as what I believe is the first reference to Mr. Saxon, which will be the big buzzword for season 3. I'm glad I watched the episode again so I could get a more balanced viewpoint on my initial kneejerk reaction of disgust when it first aired, but I have no plans to watch this again anytime soon. An admirable experiment it may have been, but I still consider it a failed one, and a bad episode is a bad episode no matter how well-intentioned.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Finishing Jubilee sort of allows me to understand more why I don't like Dalek as much as other people do. It's got the skeletal story of Dalek but much more layered, and the sillier cartoony aspects put there for comic relief have a reason for them in story (unlike the weird Internet mogul villain). I'm sure singing Daleks might be sort of jarring for some people and take them right out of the narrative, though. It's like the baby's voice in The Holy Terror. Either it's appropriately unsettling and off-putting how much it jars with things or else it's flat-out off-putting. Shearman stories might be really easy to gently caress up the execution with if they had visuals.

Either way, it's definitely worth it for lines like "OH NO. IT IS THE DOCTOR. SCAR-PER!" and "DALEKS DO NOT SIIIIIING."

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich
Fandom episodes are usually terrible because of their self-indulgent nature, it's funny how that aspect is the least offensive thing in Love & Monsters.
Trivia: Originally the frame story with Elton in the loft had bits with his "mom" yelling from downstairs, to drive home what a loser basement attic dweller he is. After the reveal she turns out to be his landlady, iirc.

You're right-on about the episode having the feel of something bumbled because of outside meddling. If I didn't know better, I would've pegged the tone whiplash as someone poorly pasting together a writers' workshop. Some of the blame belongs to the director, though, because there are scenes that fall completely flat and go on forever.

Jerusalem posted:

The reveal that he has been absorbing Elton's friends into his body is immediately followed by a bad-taste joke about one of their faces being trapped on his rear end-cheek.
And this is the heartbroken mother who joined the group because it gave her an excuse to come to London and search for her missing daughter. Fart joke!

Jerusalem posted:

That's also one of the first signs of an unfortunate RTD tendency to palette swap aliens so people can "hilariously" mistake them for the wrong race
I forgot this- who does it this time? It's the Doctor, isn't it.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Spindle posted:

I forgot this- who does it this time? It's the Doctor, isn't it.

I'm pretty sure it comes from the Doctor, yeah. The fact the Abzorbaloff resembles the Slitheen causes hm to start on that train of thought before getting stopped.

I think part of what puts me off Love and Monsters is that you could do it so well with just a little bit of editing the script. It's not even hard, the episode would be remembered more fondly just by combing through and fixing the finale alone. Cut out the fart jokes of course, but Ursula's fate could've gone two ways instead of loving it up on the middle ground. Jerusalem's already outlined that you could create a different, more interesting message from just letting her die, but even presuming they wanted to keep her alive and give the two a happy ending, they could've done that in a much less weird way by just letting her live. Have the Abzorbaloff get interrupted partway through the process by the Doctor and/or Elton, have them both escape instead of just him and bam, much less conceptually awful ending.

I'm having trouble saying that comes from them half-assing it, because I feel like doing what they did would have been more effort.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Jerusalem posted:

Love and Monsters

I remember watching this episode when it came out and thinking it was kind of a tipping point for how the Doctor and Rose functioned as a duo. The one thing from this episode that's stuck in my mind in the intervening years isn't the paving slab blow job joke, or Peter Kay as the Abzorbaloff, or anything else you mentioned (though reading that review, it's all come rushing back). It's the scene where the Abzorbaloff has Elton cornered, then the TARDIS materialises and the Doctor emerges, glares at him and says, "Somoneone wants to talk to you," and then Rose gets out to whinge at him for upsetting her mum.

Now, it's still probably one of the least bad things in the episode, but at the same time... Ugh, I don't know.

(Of course, I have to admit that fourteen-year old me got a great chuckle out of the "Oh? What's the twin planet of Raxicoricofallapatorious?" "Clom." joke)

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

It is definitely a good example of how Rose in the second season is no longer a grounding influence on the Doctor, which I think was (and is still) quite unique for a companion - she gets so wrapped up in the traveling and the "specialness" of their relationship that she loses touch with reality, something she is frequently warned of by both Mickey and Jackie (with Elton adding his own 2-cents to his "audience"). It makes a bizarre kind of sense that she would storm up and begin berating Elton while he is in the process of being menaced by a horrible monster, because she's started to lose sight of what is normal and what isn't.

It's a real shame that Martha wasn't the grounding force that the Doctor needed after Rose's departure. The Doctor's initial stand-offishness could have been used as a way for her - a committed and intelligent medical student on the cusp of becoming a Doctor in her own right - to firmly plant her own identity down and bring him down to earth as well. Instead she just continued on the Rose-like hero worship without the 2 years of episodes to back it up, culminating in the Doctor floating like Jesus and forgiving the devil of his sins as the world prayed to the glory that was their savior.

Then Donna came along and sorted all that poo poo out :clint:

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



Thunderfinger posted:

Again, is anyone having trouble buying stuff from Big Finish? When I go to buy something, it keeps saying that the bank is not authorizing the purchase with my credit card even though I have used it for other things just fine. I never had this problem with them before.

Bicyclops posted:

I use a credit card that has to verify it's a "foreign transaction" since I'm in the U.S. You might want to give your bank a call or try a different card.

KineticCapitalist posted:

I had this same problem, I called my bank and they said they had blocked all transactions to the UK because of scams or something. So now every time I want to order something I have to call the bank first.

Astroman posted:

FWIW I've had zero issues from BF doing my purchasing. In fact a couple years ago I had to put in a special passcode to use my card, but that went away. It's always worked well for me.

egon_beeblebrox posted:

I had that problem the first time I ordered from them. But I called my bank and straightened it out. No problems ever since. At this point, I order something from Big Finish about once a week.

I have the same problem. It's your bank. I've tried setting up authorization to let BF purchases go through, but it never seems to work. I always have to call before I make a transaction.

The bank ALWAYS questions BF purchases as being suspicious, despite the fact that I've ordered from them numerous times a year for the last 13 years, but they always seem to drop the ball on other suspicious activity.

"What, another transaction to Big Finish? Half a dozen times a year, every year, for the last decade, that's strange! Freeze his card! Wait, this charge from Vietnam, when Davros1 has never left the US? That must be legit! Let it through!"

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

I maintain that all of that deliberate. Donna left and he became near tyrannical and then finally died to save one single, elderly man.

Eleven's journey on the other hand was very muddled and didn't have the clear arc that Ten did. He basically finished the same character he began as.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

PriorMarcus posted:

I maintain that all of that deliberate. Donna left and he became near tyrannical and then finally died to save one single, elderly man.

Eleven's journey on the other hand was very muddled and didn't have the clear arc that Ten did. He basically finished the same character he began as.

If anything, he became a bit less interesting a character, as the writers dialed back the eccentricity and dialed up the zaniness.

But yeah, two thirds of Eleven's run was a mess thematically, focused more on puzzle boxing and cheap plot twists instead of character development or tonal consistency. It's a drat shame.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?
Speaking of Big Finish, I have a thread-title suggestion for until the show starts up again in August:

Doctor Who: "My mom listens to Big Finish, what's your excuse?

Because she does. I also showed her Genesis and boy did those 6 parts fly by!

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

Barry Foster posted:

If anything, he became a bit less interesting a character, as the writers dialed back the eccentricity and dialed up the zaniness.

But yeah, two thirds of Eleven's run was a mess thematically, focused more on puzzle boxing and cheap plot twists instead of character development or tonal consistency. It's a drat shame.

Watch is actually showing the first episodes Eleven's run today and he's so much more rich and interesting than how he ended up. Everyone makes a big deal of how Matt Smith could feel like a genuine 900 year old man at the drop of a hat but I think that only really applied to this first season. By the time he regenerated he was meant to have faced his darkest day (Demon's Run), relived his slightly less darkest day (Time War), confronted his final death more than any other incarnation (multiple loving times, with it only being evident on Trenzalore that he was out of do-overs), tried to dial back his fame (a plan that failed miserably by the time he was back to fighting every monster in the history of ever) and other countless angsty poo poo but he seemed like a big kid. I really, really hope Capaldi get's a chance to shine without Moffat but I doubt it; he's already setting up another web of puzzle plots he'll want to untangle before another writer gets a chance to run the show.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
I honestly really like the 'puzzle box' overplots more than the sort of stuff that Jerusalem's currently going over in season 2, because... well, I just get them a lot more. For the most part I've overcome my asperger's, but it still plagues my comprehension of certain things, I doubt even going back to them now I'd be able to pick up any of that 'Doctor and Rose losing their grip on reality' story because I just can't read stories in that way.

The problem with those is that Moffat's actually only had one with any substance. The Cracks, as I've said before, were great for that; a constant presence in the season that wasn't overbearing, but facilitated some great stories while also progressing itself. As the season went on we saw more and more of what they were capable of, what they were doing and why they existed, and it just worked so loving well for the story.

Problem is, after that Moffat just sort of stopped trying. None of the rest of Eleven's run really incorporated any of that sort of thing. The last half-season sort of tried with the whole 'Impossible Girl' business, but that wasn't really an 'overarching plot' as much as 'reminders of a payoff that hasn't happened yet'. There weren't extra facts about the whole thing being dropped every couple episodes, no reference to the implications or the actual truth of anything, it was just... there, until eventually it was answered. There was potential for that to be a thing on the level of the Cracks, and I would've liked it if they tried to reach it, but they just didn't.

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
College Slice
God drat... I finally convinced two friends to give the show a go after a couple of years of talking it up, and they started with Rose, and immediately loved it. One of them posted on Facebook about their bingathon through S1, and of course it drew the flies of how it's not the TRUE season 1 and "Glad to see you started with the show in 1964" and....

gently caress... fans are the worst part about this show.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!
Kate O'Mara, aka The Rani to us DW fans, has passed away.

McGann
May 19, 2003

Get up you son of a bitch! 'Cause Mickey loves you!

Mortanis posted:

God drat... I finally convinced two friends to give the show a go after a couple of years of talking it up, and they started with Rose, and immediately loved it. One of them posted on Facebook about their bingathon through S1, and of course it drew the flies of how it's not the TRUE season 1 and "Glad to see you started with the show in 1964" and....

gently caress... fans are the worst part about this show.

I love stuff like this, because it lets me realize the poisonous elements of my life and purge them (since contact via Facebook is usually all the contact these folks get). Gotta look on the bright side of life!

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

PriorMarcus posted:

Watch is actually showing the first episodes Eleven's run today and he's so much more rich and interesting than how he ended up. Everyone makes a big deal of how Matt Smith could feel like a genuine 900 year old man at the drop of a hat but I think that only really applied to this first season. By the time he regenerated he was meant to have faced his darkest day (Demon's Run), relived his slightly less darkest day (Time War), confronted his final death more than any other incarnation (multiple loving times, with it only being evident on Trenzalore that he was out of do-overs), tried to dial back his fame (a plan that failed miserably by the time he was back to fighting every monster in the history of ever) and other countless angsty poo poo but he seemed like a big kid.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. The Beast Below remains, for my money, Smith's best performance. The Eleventh Doctor is almost a completely different character in that episode.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Sydney Bottocks posted:

Kate O'Mara, aka The Rani to us DW fans, has passed away.

Awww. RIP Kate. Sorry you didn't exactly have a great character to portray.

RunAndGun
Apr 30, 2011

Bicyclops posted:

Awww. RIP Kate. Sorry you didn't exactly have a great character to portray.

I did wonder if they would someday take her up on her offer to come back as the Rani. How such a (bad copy of the Master) character would actually FIT IN, is another question.

One thing, though. She did have a sort-of background story. She was actually known in Gallifreyan society as a scientist ("Mice into monsters"). She also was the first to have a non-SIDRAT remote controlled TARDIS. That's more defined than the Master's backstory (what is it, besides him "going to school" with the Doctor?).

So maybe her backstory could've been fleshed out, to make a more interesting character.

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
No the Master is an evil genius which is why he acts like a cro-magnon every time it's convenient for not-him

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


That's too bad she never got to come back even for a Big Finish or two. :(

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Astroman posted:

That's too bad she never got to come back even for a Big Finish or two. :(

She specifically said she would only come back if she could wear the ridiculous outfit again!

(She was kidding, of course. It would have been nice to see what BF would have done with her. Oh well!)

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

by Pragmatica

Sydney Bottocks posted:

Kate O'Mara, aka The Rani to us DW fans, has passed away.

drat.



RIP :(

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Oh my god this gif where did you get it!?

... it needs a little drip under the nose, though.

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

It's weird to me that people would go to all that effort to cut out C. Bakes, animate the rain, add in drops from him and then completely poo poo the bed of basic photoshop skills like brightness/contrast.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

PriorMarcus posted:

It's weird to me that people would go to all that effort to cut out C. Bakes, animate the rain, add in drops from him and then completely poo poo the bed of basic photoshop skills like brightness/contrast.

Wow, you are allergic to positivity!

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

by Pragmatica

DoctorWhat posted:

Oh my god this gif where did you get it!?

An Anon from the Doctor Who threads on /tv/ did them.






Don't recall seeing any for the other Doctors.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Ahahaha the Tom Baker one still looks like he's had a couple of drinks and he's ready to troll. He couldn't be made to look sad with all the Photoshop skills in the world. His expression reminds me particularly of Graham Chapman in that photo for some reason.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah, I keep waiting for a slow goofy grin to cross his face :allears:

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?
Courtesy of a kind soul on tumblr and inspired by a story I know I've told a million times:

CountFosco
Jan 9, 2012

Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.
I don't get it.

McGann
May 19, 2003

Get up you son of a bitch! 'Cause Mickey loves you!

CountFosco posted:

I don't get it.

Me neither. Now, I think it probably involves the '6's Animal Crossing Coat being shown to C Bakes' story somehow, but that's where I dead-end.

McGann fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Mar 31, 2014

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

McGann posted:

Me neither. Now, I think it probably involves the '6's Animal Crossing Coat being shown to C Bakes' story somehow, but that's where I dead-end.

That's it. It's Six bugging Colin about the pattern. It's dumb and tumblr as heck but it's adorable.

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Elrond Hubbard
Mar 30, 2007

To ERH
*everyone applauds*

Box of Bunnies posted:

An Anon from the Doctor Who threads on /tv/ did them.



Don't recall seeing any for the other Doctors.

Is it me, or did they just flip his smile to make a frown?

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