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So I think the characters are all going through different stages of grief? Snow is denial Sazh is bargaining Lightning is anger Hope is depression Vanille is acceptance
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Apr 16, 2014 16:50
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Honestly, Vanille is manic if anything. And yeah, I don't get the love for Lightning either. Way too anime for my tastes.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:52
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Fedule posted:Well this is The Dilemma, isn't it? It's not reasonable to expect people to always keep quiet about every little thing that might come up in a video. Besides, maybe sometimes we'll legit forget something and it'll be down to y'all to point it out. All I can really ask is, just keep in mind that we're rationing mechanics tidbits. I don't think Artix is gonna lock the thread because someone ~spoiled~ that stagger time varies based on how fast the gauge is emptying when the enemy is staggered (we mention this next video). If I may expand on this, the game does throw you right into things, but it also gives you the entirety of chapters 3 and 4 to play around with the system and see how things work together before it really starts expecting you to have things down. I've deliberately set up the videos in such a way that we really only introduce one big thing per video to let us actually talk about how it all works to sort of mimic this learning process. We could have spent the first two videos talking about every single nuance in the system, but that wouldn't be very informative to you as the viewer, nor would it leave us much to talk about until Chapter 9 when the next big thing gets introduced. Basically, what I'm saying is this: if we missed talking about an aspect of the battle system or some other mechanic, give us at least until the end of Chapter 4 before you jump in and tell us how we totally forgot to mention this or that - we very well might have, but it's probably in one of those videos that just hasn't been posted yet.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:31
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anilEhilated posted:Funny, I see it in the exact opposite way: not minding Snow but getting murderous twitches whenever Vanille shows up. Maybe it's because I haven't played this so I have no idea how their characters unfold. If anything, Hope should be hating Vanille more at this point. "Hey, let's sneak into Old Man Fal'cie's house, get condemned with a death sentence, and become ostracized from all society so you can tell Snow he's a doody-head, 'kay? Teehee!"
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Apr 16, 2014 18:28
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Schwartzcough posted:If anything, Hope should be hating Vanille more at this point. "Hey, let's sneak into Old Man Fal'cie's house, get condemned with a death sentence, and become ostracized from all society so you can tell Snow he's a doody-head, 'kay? Teehee!" Really, Hope should be slapped upside the head for not thinking that one out too well.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:08
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I think we are at least 6 hours into the story, since it has gone from "night" to "Morning." Hope's bad decisions are likely a result of grief over his mom dying almost half a day earlier and also likely a result of him being an 8th grader. To me, Hope is as awful/annoying as an actual 8th grader, but with a more sympathetic excuse for being that way.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:15
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Simply Simon posted:Still - from the beginning of this disaster, Snow did nothing wrong to affect Lightning, unless I am already forgetting scenes. And certainly nothing Snow has done since gives us any sense that smacking him with a couple of punches is in any way a disproportionate reaction to how he's trying to talk up that "it's okay she isn't really dead".
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Apr 16, 2014 21:28
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I guess that depends entirely on your personal view on Serah's situation. I was actually always on Snow's side - she's not dead, she's crystal. There's GOTTA be something you can do about that.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:48
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Really, Hope should be slapped upside the head for not thinking that one out too well.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:24
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My avatar will enrage a few people I see.  I do like Vanille as a character, and I realize this makes me open for attack by most people reading this but I am just not affected by her, or most people in this game like others are, and plot events later on, make her one of my favourite characters in the game.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:48
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Regy Rusty posted:So far Snow getting punched has been the highlight of the whole game for me. I have a soft spot in my heart for bad JRPGs where characters named Snow get punched in the face repeatedly.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:54
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Do you guys honestly expect a sheltered, dumb kid that is barely a teenager to NOT act like, well, a sheltered and dumb kid?  Realistically a sheltered millennial who is probably too attached to his mother and secure lifestyle would react exactly as Hope is reacting. (running from the huge monster, flipping the gently caress out at all the freak-a-zoids around him, making increasingly stupid and bad decisions in a confused stupor, etc.) Not to mention all the people whining about Hope, well, WHINING, but gently caress if my anime character shows grief and is instead a bubbly/determined fairy character in fantasy land right off the bat(Snow). Except for that stupid loving "Snow killed my mom but I'm not going to talk about it until 10 hours into the game!" bullshit  , I don't really mind Hope that much as a character. Also random exposition. This game really LOVES random exposition from different characters.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:35
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I always have a problem with the "realism" argument for Hope's character for the same reason I have a problem with realism arguments in FPS' (not that I play much of those): after a certain point, making things more realistic makes them less fun to play. In this case, it might be totally in line for the type of character Hope is to act like he does, that doesn't in the slightest make him fun to watch. I guess you could argue that he "gets better", and I guess he does, but at the moment, he's an annoying little gently caress and I can't emphasize with him because I personally don't play videogames to immerse myself in the story. Maybe it's different for other people and if you emphasize more, you like him for acting like he "should". I just can't get behind that mindset at all and just want him to go away because his whining is getting in the way of me pushing buttons. See also: I like Vanille for forcibly ending cutscenes by saying "yes that's all well and good but I'm over here now follow meee".
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Apr 17, 2014 00:04
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How Rude posted:Do you guys honestly expect a sheltered, dumb kid that is barely a teenager to NOT act like, well, a sheltered and dumb kid? Well, in all fairness, Hope only had like two or three chances to talk to Snow where he wasn't doing his delusional Don Quixote impression before they're separated for said 10 hour stretch. And even then, Snow is a human brick and Hope could barely string two words together while his mother was alive, so yeah of course they're going to suck as communicating with one another and--I can't believe I'm devil's advocating this game. 
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Apr 17, 2014 00:08
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Simply Simon posted:I always have a problem with the "realism" argument for Hope's character for the same reason I have a problem with realism arguments in FPS' (not that I play much of those): after a certain point, making things more realistic makes them less fun to play. In this case, it might be totally in line for the type of character Hope is to act like he does, that doesn't in the slightest make him fun to watch. If we're talking completely on the gameplay side of things, then yes a great deal of the cut scenes in this game do little other than to pad it out even more. However, if we are going to go about discussing the abortion of a "story" that is FFXIII, how to write consistent characters that react to situations correctly (something that every supposedly story-driven piece of media should do since it's, well, good use of mechanics for fiction) the worst offender is definitely not Hope. For characters to be like-able they have to be relate-able in some way to the audience, which is none of the cast of FFXIII except for like, Sazh.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:50
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I tend to like individual actions of characters more than their consistency as well-crafted and relatable "persons", so I guess that's just a difference. Also why I do like Zell and Selphie a lot in FF8, and nobody else. Selphie especially is almost the same as Vanille, ridiculously over-the-top but actually the only party member to have an agenda or even a plan most of the time. That counts a lot for me. Hope is for now a complete failure to me because I can't really relate, and I'd argue that even if you can, he's still not likeable (deliberately, then, but...that doesn't really make it better, imho).
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Apr 17, 2014 00:58
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Here, I can tolerate Hope, even sympathize with him: he's a dumb kid thrust into something bigger, and harder, and sadder than he's ready for. But that good will can't, and we shouldn't be asked for it to, last forever, not without something besides a bad initial situation to keep it going. Actually, I'm dubious about even that. See, here's something you can even notice in these discussions: the people arguing for Hope as being really sympathetic aren't talking much about Hope, and are largely talking about his situation. We don't know anything about Hope, except he's a kid whose mom died. That's Hope, pretty much. He's more situation than character. But think about characters we like: those who like Vanille like her for what she does for the story. Those who like Sazh -- well, at this point, we don't know what Sazh's situation is outside the general plot, and we don't care, because Sazh has a personality, and a bird in his afro, and these things are enjoyable. If bad things happened to Sazh, we'd probably feel bad even if the bad things were minor, or even if he wasn't too sad about them...Because we like Sazh, and therefor have sympathy for him and are rooting for him. Hope isn't sympathetic -- his situation is. For a character whose primary mode of engagement is sympathy, this is bad. But more on Hope later. I don't hate him, but am so annoyed by how badly they screwed up his character arc. I mean, they made a lust for vengeance or conflict boring, and that is stunning. D3m3 fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 01:12
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Uh, guys, maaaaybe we're going a bit too far ahead in the plot?
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Apr 17, 2014 01:14
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I can understand why anime teenager isn't feeling confident, what with his mom dead and him fighting robo-behemoths and gods with a boomerang. I can, it makes sense. Doesn't mean I really care to see him struggle to hold a conversation for agonizingly slow drawn out minutes at a time. Nonetheless, I can't wait till we get to talking about the final boss in seven pages
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Apr 17, 2014 01:26
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Camel Pimp posted:Uh, guys, maaaaybe we're going a bit too far ahead in the plot? Sorry, I'll edit. It's very difficult to talk about Hope as he is, because he's not much as it is. Edited. D3m3 fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 01:35
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People can debate whether Hope is likable or not all day, I'll keep asking myself where the hell he got that boomerang from. Everyone else had some explanation for their weaponry (Lightning's has a scabbard, Sazh has both of his guns on his belt, Snow's weapon is his coat...somehow..., Vanille got hers from that Sanctum place), but Hope suddenly...pulls that thing out of his rear end. It's weird, since there's clearly some consistency weapon-wise, but Hope's just comes straight out of nowhere, even moreso since he's the only character without any excuse to be armed. Lightning's an ex-soldier, Sazh was taken prisoner or something if I understand the train sequence right, Vanille found hers after the game began, and Snow's just rocking that coat (why does that coat power him up, seriously), but Hope had a deadly boomerang on him...hidden entirely from view...because... If everyone just materialized their weapons from the aether (as Final Fantasy characters usually do), then I wouldn't mind at all, but Hope is the only one to do this. It's just so inconsistent and gets me annoyed far more than it should, especially since the art direction is basically the only thing here that's even remotely praise-worthy, apart from the really good music.
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Apr 17, 2014 02:08
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Blaze Dragon posted:People can debate whether Hope is likable or not all day, I'll keep asking myself where the hell he got that boomerang from. Everyone else had some explanation for their weaponry (Lightning's has a scabbard, Sazh has both of his guns on his belt, Snow's weapon is his coat...somehow..., Vanille got hers from that Sanctum place), but Hope suddenly...pulls that thing out of his rear end. Actually, he does have a reason to have a weapon. Vanille gave it to him on screen, just before they got on the fish cycle (IIRC). Of course, it was nearly impossible to tell what it was, just that she was giving him something, so I don't blame you for missing it. Where he stores it, well, that I'm drawing a blank on.
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Apr 17, 2014 02:19
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Ashsaber posted:Actually, he does have a reason to have a weapon. Vanille gave it to him on screen, just before they got on the fish cycle (IIRC). Of course, it was nearly impossible to tell what it was, just that she was giving him something, so I don't blame you for missing it. Where he stores it, well, that I'm drawing a blank on. No but you see, it folds up  vvv Hope's abs aren't nearly as rock-hard or sexy as Vaan's vvv Instant Grat fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 02:30
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Hope is like Vaan in that there's some rear end in a top hat who killed a relative of his and he spends a lot of time getting mad at whoever said rear end in a top hat was, there's an overly chipper girl who tags along with him, and the adults really don't care about them beyond what's expected. Vaan got over his anger in the end once the big picture got revealed to him, but Hope pretty much saw Snow next to his dead mom seconds after her death. I don't really remember how exactly he coped with Snow's presence in the game, but I'm curious about how it's going to play out when/if Hope decides to tell Snow about what he saw that day. Edit: Instant Grat posted:vvv Hope's abs aren't nearly as rock-hard or sexy as Vaan's vvv Hope didn't live in a desert town doing hard labor. A Bystander fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 03:03
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Ashsaber posted:Actually, he does have a reason to have a weapon. Vanille gave it to him on screen, just before they got on the fish cycle (IIRC). Of course, it was nearly impossible to tell what it was, just that she was giving him something, so I don't blame you for missing it. Where he stores it, well, that I'm drawing a blank on. She gave him an assault rifle. The scene even shows Hope leaving it behind on the ground. So no, there's absolutely no reason why he has a boomerang up his rear end. WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 14:34
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It's a toy boomerang. He took it with him on vacation.
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Apr 17, 2014 14:43
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I think the description of Hope's starting weapon is something about how it's a remote-controlled hunting boomerang used for sport or somesuch. As to how it fits in his back pocket, well, like I said earlier, it folds up
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Apr 17, 2014 14:48
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A remote-control hunting boomerang? That's the dumbest hunting utility I've ever heard of. How would it even work?
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Apr 17, 2014 16:21
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Mehuyael posted:A remote-control hunting boomerang? That's the dumbest hunting utility I've ever heard of. How would it even work? I laughed. 
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Apr 17, 2014 16:30
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Mehuyael posted:A remote-control hunting boomerang? That's the dumbest hunting utility I've ever heard of. How would it even work? He is a middle class kid. It was a Chri'stmas toy. He can't throw a real boomerang right. Alternatively, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger had remote control boomerangs, and those were pretty useful.
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Apr 17, 2014 16:33
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 Update 6: Tri-Disastrous (Polsy) Music The Pulse L'Cie Bestiary      Datalogs  quote:Casting the Net  quote:The Fal'Cie: Eden
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Apr 17, 2014 19:21
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So the fal'Cie thing is bad because you're given a trial that you have to complete otherwise you get crystalled or zombied. But you also get magic powers. How can there be people in the military using magic then and not be immediately executed?
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Apr 17, 2014 19:42
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RareAcumen posted:So the fal'Cie thing is bad because you're given a trial that you have to complete otherwise you get crystalled or zombied. But you also get magic powers. Not even making GBS threads you; this will be answered in the next video. Punchline: I bring it up more or less out of nowhere.
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Apr 17, 2014 19:50
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I suppose that the difference between incidental dialogue and cutscenes depends on how many lines are said. Like, in the dialogue between Hope and Vanille, there were like 2 lines, while in the cutscenes where Lightning is all dark and broody about how Serah never told her about her Focus, there were like 8 lines. Maybe there's some sort of limit? Who knows.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:03
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IIRC the Librascope is actually better than Libra, because Libra reveals part of the enemy stats (and can be used multiple times to get more) while Librascope immediately reveals all.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:07
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RareAcumen posted:So the fal'Cie thing is bad because you're given a trial that you have to complete otherwise you get crystalled or zombied. But you also get magic powers. I think it's crystalled if you do it, zombied if you don't.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:07
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Fedule posted:Not even making GBS threads you; this will be answered in the next video.  I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to ask questions before you had a chance to explain them! Now the thread's gonna go off about the next seven chapters. 
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Apr 17, 2014 20:10
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RareAcumen posted:
Nah man it's cool. I was just laughing at the fact that of all the world details to ask about you picked the one that I basically picked out of a hat when I wanted to make a point about world details generally in the next video. Just remember: Every time someone inadvertently brings up something we mention in a future video, it goes a little further towards proving the point that Final Fantasy XIII provides basically nothing of worth to talk about. Hell, I'll even answer your actual question right now: Soldiers can use magic because they have a "Manadrive" that synthesizes its effects (their battle abilities are all called things like Manadrive Fire, etc). It uses the same technology as Lightning's gravity thingy (I think it may even be the same device, although spoiler; no enemy soldier will ever do gravity hax). You can read all about it in the datalog.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:15
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Fedule posted:Hell, I'll even answer your actual question right now: Soldiers can use magic because they have a "Manadrive" that synthesizes its effects (their battle abilities are all called things like Manadrive Fire, etc). It uses the same technology as Lightning's gravity thingy (I think it may even be the same device, although spoiler; no enemy soldier will ever do gravity hax). You can read all about it in the datalog. It's not magic, it's science!  Clearly trustworthy and very different from those L'cie scum!By the way, I never completed the game, so can you tell me an estimate of how plot contrived the Manadrives will become? Unless that's is too big of a spoiler.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:22
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Carlioo posted:It's not magic, it's science! It's cute that you think the plot will involve world details.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:37
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