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What's the key to enjoying this game when you hit the point where you need to produce stuff en masse? I found it really fun until I got to the point where I need blue science, and now when I fire it up and load my save, I just run around for a minute, decide I'm not interested in spending half an hour clearing space for a billion assembling machines just for gears, and quit. I figure I must be missing something because I've never heard someone else say Factorio is really fun until that point and then completely tedious and boring, but that's how it seems now.
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Jan 27, 2019 21:52
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Vic posted:But from what you said it sounds like you find building increasingly complex factories tedious and boring so... But they aren't any more complex. You're just taking the same optimized blocks and sticking them together more times. The bigger you scale up the less time you spend doing any thinking, you just optimize once, then place the same thing 20 times over, then spend forever dragging out long-rear end conveyors and pipes and stuff, and then sit around for 10 minutes because it now takes forever for production to propagate. The exponential scaling of the amount of stuff required to make something happen outruns the linear scaling of design.That's what I'm not finding enjoyable. Maybe I'll feel differently if I come back to the game and start over in a few weeks, IDK. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 00:18
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I have, oil and trains I both enjoy a lot, because they're kinda separate systems you build in parallel. They add a lot of new stuff to think about, which is why I have so many resources pouring into my base that I would have to build some absolutely enormous poo poo to use it. The first oil source I found was I dunno, 60 seconds of train away? So building a station at each end to buffer all that was fun. I really do like the game, maybe I will go back to enjoying it if I just forget about it for a few days.
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Jan 28, 2019 01:35
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Yeah I'm kinda leaning toward starting again and making my first factory just a rush to rails and setting up individual factories to produce a few products each and then training them to a new factory each time I tech up, and when I get oil making a point to convert everything possible from coal to solid fuel just for the hell of having it on a feedback loop. I do like the pressure of having enemies, I honestly wish they were significantly harder to deal with but maybe that ramps up more if I play differently or get closer to late game so I don't think I'll crank it up yet.
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Jan 28, 2019 02:19
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I gave it a few days and restarted the game with some different goals derived from your ideas - giving myself plenty of space, automating and scaling up as much as possible at my current tech before moving on, and I'm having a ton of fun. Thanks for the advice guys. Sometimes it pays to come at very open-ended games from a different approach.
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Feb 1, 2019 04:16
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TigerXtrm posted:Why are people bitching that the tutorial is too hard? I played through it and expected some kind of hellish experience where the entire base would be overrun by behemoths by the end. Instead I just walled off a bottleneck, belt fed the line of turrets and nothing even reached the wall. What gives? It's not that turrets can't do enough damage, it's that the amount of resources you have to dedicate to producing ammo is pretty insane. If you don't belt feed the turrets before you trigger the last phase, you pretty much have to spend all your time ferrying ammo to them and can't even reactively build such a system.
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Mar 2, 2019 21:03
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I rebound the 6-10 slots to shift 1-5 again and I just use modifiers + mousewheel to switch bars. The new system is definitely mostly bad, but it is nice to be able to swap between a factory building set, a rail building set, oil building set, a combat set, etc. It's just really badly done, hopefully they iterate on it again and make both bars a pair that change together.
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Mar 11, 2019 03:29
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I say I love this game and recommend it to people, but I can't bring myself to play it. Every time I reach about blue science/oil, I just have zero interest in playing anymore. I think it's the scale - it just starts feeling like pointless drudgery where absolutely nothing interesting happens. Everything that might interest me is gated behind hours of doing the same poo poo over and over. I want so badly to keep enjoying it, but it's just not fun. I really envy you guys who have been able to get years of enjoyment out of it, because the part I did like was great. It's funny, because while everyone else wants mods that make the game bigger and longer, I kinda feel like I might enjoy it more if there was a mod that really compressed everything down.
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Mar 19, 2019 23:39
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After four aborted attempts, I finally played long enough to launch a rocket. Behold my atrocity. I love how you can kinda see all the times I did not give a gently caress, like how I just hand-carted all my yellow science materials because I was sick of building belts. https://imgur.com/a/7OWUChO Can't wait to start again, already have a ton of ideas for things I want to do differently.
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May 19, 2019 11:15
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The Factorio devs are a model for how to handle game development. Absolute obsession with player experience.
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May 31, 2019 15:28
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Is there any way other than blueprints, manually setting them, or copy/paste with shift right/left clicking to change either train orders, or the names of train stations? A single train station somehow wound up logjammed with THREE different cargos, and I cannot figure out how. One of them I was able to find a train that had the wrong destination station, the other one I have absolutely no clue.
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Jun 23, 2019 02:50
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What exactly do you mean by that? A mod that makes robot frames only require hand-craftable components?
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Jun 29, 2019 17:40
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Bring water with trains. You've already got nuclear fuel going to the station, you know what to do.
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Jul 3, 2019 03:30
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Biters are extremely easy to deal with. There's an aspect of the game that probably needs a major rework : if you just aggressively clear biter nests as your pollution cloud nears them, and drop a few turrets with walls every time, it pretty much takes them out of the game. It's kinda backwards, if you're aggressive with biters they're trivial, if you let yourself be scared of them they'll have tons of bases on the edge of your pollution cloud and constantly zerg rush you. On the topic of science rates, what do experienced players usually build out for science rates in their starter bases? I always build 1/s (0.75 in practice), but now I'm wondering if the increased resource and space requirements of building out to that extent might actually slow down that phase of the game dramatically. e - also re: the idea of forced expansion : IMO the game should really not be requiring you to expand before logistic system. It's loving obnoxious building train networks and massive stations without the ability to make a building train. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 01:08
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Just play the tutorial. You are going to get absolutely buttfucked by the bugs your first actual game because the first time they attack is unpredictable to new players and very strong. Don't worry about it, it's a learning process.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:11
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GotDonuts posted:Alright thanks, I will try to keep that in mind. Been slowly working through the tutorial missions. Wait, are you on 0.16? Go in the game options in steam and opt into the latest beta. Finish the old tutorial missions first if you like, they're not half bad and very different to the new, incomplete tutorial.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:52
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I think their goal is right, but they're accomplishing it the wrong way. To me, the real problem is the total size of the blue science hurdle. Since oil doesn't spawn in the starting area, once you reach that point, you have to stop and just wait around on your current production for a long while to build up enough resources to go out, find oil, clear all the enemies near it and along a path to your base, build defenses and all the infrastructure to either pipe or train oil to your base, and then you still have to jump into oil production. By the time you're done with this, whatever plans or goals you had have kinda gone out the window, because you were straight up railroaded for quite a while. It's really easy to just quit at that point because it's hard to even remember what you were interested in doing all this FOR several hours back. Simplifying early oil production a bit won't really fix that. That and how biters are insanely more difficult from the 20 minute to 2 hour mark than any time after are the two real problems Factorio has for new players right now.
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Jul 26, 2019 18:21
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mortal posted:Does oil not spawn in the starting area? I've never had to build a train before starting on oil. It may only be two patches, but that's enough for a while. Maybe your oil got eaten by water generation. Oil and uranium are prevented from spawning in the starting area. New players might not hit those first few biter attacks at the same time as more experienced players, but it's definitely a problem. Since 0.17, making the move from hand-feeding burner miners and hand-crafting everything to a basic factory with fully automated red science will almost always involve triggering a biter wave big enough that if you haven't built a couple turrets in the right places and dedicated a significant portion of your iron output to ammo, will definitely set the average player back far enough that they're likely to say gently caress it and quit. It's not like later in the game when even a huge attack making it into an undefended part of your base is only a minor inconvenience, since you have so few buildings and move so slowly it's easy for them to wind up walking over to feed more coal to their boilers and having at least half their base be gone by the time they can get back. e - it's worth pointing out that part of the reason it's so bad for new players is that they are going to be both less aware of pollution and less efficient with production, meaning they will have a bigger pollution cloud that has spread for longer at any given point in progression, even if it takes more time to reach that point. If the game was intended to be a constant military struggle I'd say it was fine, but it's really just a dramatic difficulty spike that isn't at all relevant to the rest of the game. Past that point, a "bad" biter attack is just "I lost a few turrets and a radar, guess I need to build more in that area" or more realistically "time to go push the biters back beyond my pollution cloud and drop turrets to prevent expansion." K8.0 fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 26, 2019 |
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Jul 26, 2019 19:58
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Count Roland posted:**raises hand** The solution to the problem you had is to not tolerate biters being in your cloud. Any time a biter spawner is in your cloud, it absorbs pollution and uses that to spawn more and worse biters to come gently caress your world up. If you only want to deal with biters occasionally, aggressively go out and kill them (place multiple turrets in range and repair them early, then switch to grenades, then grenades from a car + defender bots). If you only want to deal with them when you expand, drop turrets every time you have to kill a biter expansion, to prevent the from re-expanding in the same area. That makes them almost entirely trivial. I'm playing a game like a brand new player would right now and it's so loving brutal. At least half my resources are going into ammo to hold off the absurd waves of biters. It's definitely a hosed up and backwards difficulty curve where biters are literally orders of magnitude more difficult for new players than experienced ones.
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Jul 30, 2019 02:39
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That's an interesting question, and the answer to it partially depends on what I was talking about there. Spawners absorbing pollution (an entirely separate mechanic from the evolution factor) gives them more points with which to spawn more and stronger units, so a spawner deep in your cloud will require an enormous amount of ammunition to defend, while one outside it requires basically nothing. With default settings, destroying one spawner affects evolution the same as creating 2,222 pollution. Obviously, that means that eventually killing the biters will increase evolution more than destroying the spawner would have, but how long that takes depends on how you're killing them, what upgrades you're using, what bonuses your different buildings have, basically everything that can occur in the game.
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Jul 30, 2019 11:28
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Tamba posted:What does "play like a new player" mean for you? Mostly not going around attacking biter nests, because TBH as of 0.17 that's really the only thing that matters. I also tried a bunch of other stuff, but it turns out not to matter much because there's just no getting around the fact that if you let a significant amount of your pollution be absorbed by spawners, you get swarmed by increasingly absurd numbers of of biters. You either start mining and producing reasonably efficiently or you wipe. Thinking about it, I'm actually coming to the conclusion that the new tutorial is in fact really bad in the current state of the game. It teaches you to run away from biters and turtle up, which is exactly the opposite of how the game as it currently exists wants you to deal with them.
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Jul 30, 2019 19:18
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pixaal posted:As a new player, I have zero idea how you would even go about attacking a nest early on and be successful. I don't think that's a viable option for a new player. The way the game is presented I think a wipe 4-6 turrets and 50-100 magazines per turret is enough to kill early nests. Get closer to the worms until they're in turret range, then plop drag a row of turrets down, then swap to your ammo stack and control right click and drag across the turrets to load them. Switch to repair packs and help the turrets tank the damage until they've killed all the worms/spawners in range, then pick them up, back out of range, drop them down and repair, repeat as necessary. It's important to note that worms and larger spitters are not hitscan. They aim where you will be if you maintain your current trajectory, so by stutter stepping and/or changing direction you can avoid the damage and the puddles. Once you tech up a bit, you can start using grenades to clear nests - drop a turret farm just out of worm range to kill the biters, then run in and throw grenades at the worms. Once you get a car, use it as a grenade platform, and once you get defender capsules, use those as well. Leave a couple turrets with walls around them behind to keep biters from re-expanding in the same area. The way expansion works is that the biters send out a group to a spot, and then if nothing aggros them for a bit, they die and turn into a new nest. Having turrets randomly scattered around will prevent that from happening pretty drat well. Maintaining radar coverage of your pollution cloud will let you know if any nests have snuck in, plus you can just pay attention to where attacks are coming from and figure out if there's one hiding in your cloud pretty well. As long as you don't have giant waves crashing into your base, it's easy enough to stay ahead of them on tech and have biters be a fun distraction rather than an existential crisis. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 23:06
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You do not log into their website with your steam account. You have (or can create) a Factorio account and link it to your Steam account.
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Aug 3, 2019 00:26
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New FFF actually addresses some of the issues with the way the demo mis-trains new players. Glad to see that. Still, the game could probably do with some better explanations of how different military tools work. I know that when I first picked the game up, turret walking was obvious to me, but a lot of the other stuff you can do wasn't. In particular, it wasn't until like my third time through the game that I ever built combat robots, because their stats just look so underwhelming on the face of it.
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Aug 3, 2019 02:49
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Power Walrus posted:I’m also getting back into this after being away for awhile. I’m loving the oil changes and new graphics. I build really slowly, so it was always a pain having to manage light/heavy oil when all the early fluid products drank petroleum. Bus a lane of coal down to the point where plastic starts, then swap that lane to plastic. Gears take half the bus space as iron plates, so most people bus a couple lanes of them. You're going to need at least two lanes of steel with that much iron/copper. Red and blue circuits are also worth throwing into your bus once you start producing them, although you can easily make the argument that it's better to logistics blues since a belt full of them is a ton of resources sitting around. Sulfur only needs to get to three places - blue science, explosives, and wherever you're producing sulfuric acid. With a bit of planning, you may not actually need to widen your bus for it. Sometimes it's more efficient to just bring a resource across the bus at the point it's needed and group related production. It's also worth considering how you want to get stone, stone bricks, and solid fuel to the places they need to go.
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Aug 5, 2019 06:21
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Just wait until I release my 1k seconds per science realism overhaul mod that makes climbing the tech tree in factorio take as long as it would in real life.
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Aug 8, 2019 02:16
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Power Walrus posted:I just launched my first satellite, capping off a 31 hour game, biters set to passive. It was fun to finally see this dang factory through to the end. I never got my nuclear plants going, because I spent too much time waiting for Kovarex processing to spin up. I got more comfortable with trains and designing factories for the logistics network, but I didn't venture into anything like scheduling trains or working with combinators. Mostly, I just threw another train of raw minerals at my smelters if the main bus thinned out. Generally speaking, two turrets with half a stack of ammo each, and walls around them is enough to defend most areas. Sometimes I will double-wall a particularly intense chokepoint and put up a bunch of turrets. Place them so there are no or insignificant gaps in coverage. Take advantage of cliffs and trees where you can, if only a few biters at a time can get into range of your turrets they will be very effective. The first attack is the worst one, so beeline turrets and get a bit of ammo production going and you'll be fine. Personally I just hand-feed my guns for the most part, belting ammo around is extremely time consuming both to set up and revise. Late game you can use logistics bots to feed ammo to your turrets. Aggressively clear biter nests out of your pollution cloud. The amount of biters that will come at you if you let them absorb a lot of pollution is insane. Early game you do this by walking turrets into range of worms and repairing them to tank the damage. Once you get the car, you can chuck grenades out of it to kill things. Good news on nuclear : it takes forever to accumulate enough U-235 for Kovarex, but you can use all the U-238 you're producing to make hugely upgraded ammunition in the meanwhile.
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Aug 13, 2019 00:14
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They will more or less ignore anything that doesn't produce pollution and isn't a turret/radar unless it's obstructing their way. On occasion they will destroy a pole, just like they will occasionally destroy rocks that obstruct their pathfinding. If you leave a train station undefended, they will probably eventually get to chowing down on the tracks after everything else.
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Aug 18, 2019 18:35
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Pumpjacks are slow as HELL. They also produce at different rates. That setup has to wait for whatever tanker car has a slower set of pumpjacks, and the only buffer they have is the pipes. Give them a tank or two to pump into, so they never have to stop pumping, and connect them all together. Preferably put it near the tanker cars - pumps work better the closer they are to the source, and that also puts as much of your valuable oil in one place where turrets can guard it more easily. Yes, it's true that the first pump on a line will suck all the oil and the next one will pretty much starve. In practice, it's not very important. Go ahead and run one line to each car if you want, going beyond that is needless complexity unless you're trying to do something very specific. As far as how many pumpjacks can fit on one pipeline, pumped pipes can easily flow over 1000 units per second. You can mouse over a pumpjack to see how much it's producing. Solumin posted:I'm so slow I've never actually launched a rocket I'll add to the other advice to just not worry about optimizing things. If you're concerned about routing in the future, leaving occasional gaps in your factory can allow you to route things through there later. Trying to make things as efficient as possible before you know what will be needed where actually makes things a lot harder, because you'll wind up with a dense rat nest that's hard to retrofit. Factorio is an incredibly elegant game aside from a few speedbumps, and you really just do not need to think ahead that hard as long as there's some way to get things you're producing to new places you didn't think you needed them. Count Roland posted:I can say I like the change to oil. Getting it up and running was a great deal easier than in my previous experience (partly due to me having done it before, plus less biter pressure) and I was able to fit it pretty smoothly into my existing base. Despite having done most of this before, I still spent quite some time messing with fluid mechanics and discovering some good ways to do things. I laid some long distance pipe (using the undergrounds, of course) in what I thought was a smart way-- then I tried to drive through it. So I still have a long way to go in optimizing things. I never pipe across my bus because I like being able to drive down it. I use barrels to cross it, and to get fluids around my base in general. Pipes are hateful things reserved for places that actually need them. Where you do need pipes, keep in mind that you can throw a few bits of wall on the corners to to make them more visible and stop yourself from gibbing them by driving into them. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 02:02
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If you're only building a small base, train logistics are easy. Make each siding long enough to fit 2-3 trains, never put more than 2-3 trains on that resource. Once you scale past that, stock train logistics are a giant pain in the rear end.
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Sep 7, 2019 21:55
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Iron crates are the worst item in the game and I never build them anymore. Wood crates own because you can put other things in them and shoot them to dispose of them quickly.
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Sep 16, 2019 23:45
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When you clear nest, drop 2 turrets and wall them off. That will take care of most biter expansion. You don't actually need to defend an area that trains travel through. Biters won't attack non-military things that don't produce pollution unless they're in their way or something that they do want to kill is nearby. It's still a good idea to keep biters cleared out because nests in your pollution cloud are a problem and nests outside it aren't.
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Sep 22, 2019 22:16
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It's listed as toggle filter. The controls menu is searchable so you can just type any part of that in and find it fast.
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Oct 27, 2019 02:59
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Calculate how much heavy oil your refineries can produce per second. Build enough chemical plants to crack it all to light oil. Put a pump in between the tank your heavy oil goes to and the chemical plants. Wire to the tank. Set it to enable if heavy oil > 24k. Do the same with light oil > petroleum gas cracking. If you are overrunning on petroleum gas, something is seriously wrong with your factory.
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Nov 12, 2019 01:04
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Factorio is very much a create your own challenge game, and dealing with the mess you've made is part of it. I still struggle to play the way I think I should - for example, it seems right rush to automating gears/belts/circuits/inserters/assemblers, and THEN worry about starting a proper base, but I always wind up dawdling around in the early game concerning myself with optimizing the overall design of my base and bottlenecking myself for a long time. It's a hard habit to break, but it's been fun to go through so far so I don't regret it. My next playthrough will probably be going for sub 8 hours, so that will force me to worry less about optimization of my base and more about optimization of my time.
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Nov 29, 2019 19:08
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Over time I'm becoming more and more certain there's a bug in Factorio that causes train schedules to change without explicit player input, possibly related to being hit with an upgrade planner or something similar. Just had all my copper ore trains decide that they were actually supposed to unload at coal unload stations. They worked fine for a couple hours before this happened, and I most definitely did not screw one up and then copy its schedule to the others - in fact, when it happened I hadn't done anything with trains for at least an hour other than using an upgrade planner to change some bits around. I'm sick enough of it that I'm probably just going to make all my unloading done with filter inserters from now on. Doesn't cost a ton of resources, and at least that way everything will just grind to a halt instead of loading half of my factory with the wrong poo poo randomly. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2019 23:20
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Dude probably could have single handedly ended cancer with less effort, but he chose to build a virtual factory. ... He made the right choice.
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Dec 9, 2019 04:15
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Kinetica posted:Wouldn’t you end up with a big mess of trains running around mostly empty as the patch stops being able to support furnace loads, even with the warehouse buffer? I tried it once and ended up breaking my rail network from overload Wire your buffer chests together and then to your train station, tell it to disable unless it's got at least a train worth. Set all your trains to leave after a bit when loading to handle when multiple trains dispatch to an insufficient station. Chakan posted:The Friday Facts about changing the tutorial back seems like an odd choice, but I never played the new tutorial so I don't know how well it handled onboarding new players. It basically teaches you that you have to rush infrastructure as fast as possible or get run over by biters, which is exactly the opposite of how the actual game works. It's really goddamn bad.
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Dec 29, 2019 00:46
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Walls are fundamentally pretty pointless. You have to defend them, which means you're better off just dropping down walled-off defensive installations with gaps between them. As long as they're close enough that the biter AI won't walk through the gap without aggroing one installation or another, you have your wall without the annoyance of an actual wall.
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Dec 30, 2019 04:31
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Yes, read the post again. You put walls around the defensive blobs. There's absolutely no point to building a solid wall that goes around your base, just little walled forts. As long as your setup forces biters to aggro on one fort or another, there is zero value to putting walls in between them. Negative value, actually, since it gets in your way.
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Dec 30, 2019 05:12
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