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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Played the Demo a couple of times over, and wow - the design of this game is really, really simple but that means that everything meshes very well and learning the limits of what you can do via trial and error is fun. I avoided looking up tutorials and the like on youtube/online and just kinda hosed around, and then went from "Hmm, I wonder if running a coal conveyer past my steam turbines and having inserters joining them will keep the turbines stocked with coal rather than having to manually fill them" to having a fully-automated assembly line that took iron deposits and converted them into dead Biters by way of Miner->Conveyer->Furnace->Conveyer->Assembler->Perimiter-Conveyer-Loop->Perimiter-Autoguns, all without once handling the intermediary materials myself.

I wish that some of the graphics were cleared up and that certain items like magazines were more visible on conveyers, but I'm going to play the gently caress out of this, I can tell. I think part of the appeal is that yeah, it's effectively a transport and logistics game, but the addition of combat and overarching goals helps it just be more than a stale exercise in optimization.

Breetai fucked around with this message at Nov 23, 2015 around 20:40

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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Is there anything you can do with the purple stuff that comes out of the monster spawners in the third level of demo? (I'm deciding on a 'conquer the map' approach to dicking around with it and want a nice, clear map so I can gently caress around with things for a while.)

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!



Dollars to donuts it's this.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


I'm on the level where you have to build the plane, and I'm getting my poo poo pushed in by Big Biters. Even armour piercing rounds have little effect, and I just used up my last rockets on a wave that had 5 big, several mediums and a few smalls.

What's my best strategy for survival?

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Renaissance Robot posted:

In the woods to the southeast and northwest there are crashed ships containing a bunch of laser turrets and explosives. Those should do you until you can research laser turrets to build more. The southern one is undefended, but the northern one is behind a bunch of worms, so watch out. Also don't forget to be building your walls at least three blocks deep, since big biters can damage things over the top of single walls.

Oooh! Are the Laser Turrets significantly better at killing heavily-armoured enemies than armour-piercing rounds then? I can develop a perimeter, but I suppose after a while the power you need to fuel them will start attracting more biters through pollution.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Well, I'm pretty sure this game just gave me legit autism. Thanks, thread.



It's all so pretty and orderly.


Centralised 'Christmas Tree' branching seems the way to go. If I need to up production on my factories I have the option of extending the input and the output lines away from the centre, and both the Iron and Copper mines feed outwards to furnaces that feed inwards so I can just extend that line if I need more production of raw materials.

This loving game.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND



This suit plus the combat shotgun with piercing rounds lets me cut through clusters of biter spawners like butter. I went out on what was supposed to be a fuckaround suicide mission and came back with 100 artifacts.


As for my base...





Automate. Everything.

Apart from recipes that require me to occasionally manually insert artifacts, everything runs perpetually without any additional tinkering on my part. I'm about 10 modules into the 100(!) level 3 modules I'll need to build the missile defence building.

I haven't played a different game since I bought the full version about a week ago. As soon as I place the missile defence and win this game I'm going to stop COMPLETELY until it goes gold, because I can see myself burning out real hard on it otherwise, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what its final incarnation looks like.



LordSaturn posted:

you can't automate blue science production without spending 100 blue science.

How so?

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Pornographic Memory posted:

You can - level 2 assemblers (the blue ones) can actually make products that require four components. I got hung up on this too for a while but it turns out you don't need level 3 assemblers to make blue science. Still, considering the amount of components necessary to make blue science it can be a pain in the rear end laying out the belts to create it.

Oh, I see. Yeah, Blue Beakers are as fiddly as poo poo, but in the end it's possible with just standard conveyers and L2 assemblers. Here's a detail of my set-up.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


GotDonuts posted:

Here is my first attempt at a factory, if you have any pointers on how I can make it more effiecent I would appreciate it. I started with peaceful mode as I have no loving clue as to what I am doing 90% of the time, I am just excited to have finally got green lab potions being made.



Avoid loops and backfeeds, and try to avoid having complex items being manufactures in the opposite direction than their dependancies in terms of the general 'flow' of your factory.

For illustration, open my factory pic from the last page to fullscreen and study it:




Note that the basic building blocks i.e. steel and copper plates feed inwards meaning that as demand increases I can just expand the appropriate line horizontally, and that items from bottom to top progress up the tech tree, and that there's room on either side of the main line for me to just keep plopping down factories for whatever parts I want if my supply gets to low. The oil handling section on the right is the same thing in a microcosm.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


loving lol


I think I'm done with this game for a while simply because it's been all I've played and I don't want to burn out on it before the final version is released. That being said, I can't wait for the final version to refine the (few) rough edges. I only played with logistic/constructor robots after I had enough resources to build the rocket defense, but from my brief tinkering I figure that next time I play the ability to just whack down entire base elements at will is going to be pivotal to developing exponential growth.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


For those having trouble with biters tearing down your walls, y'all should do this poo poo:



It's pretty effective.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Sockerbagarn posted:

Make sure you've got the heavy oil pipe hooked up to the heavy oil input on the chemical plant, and vice versa with the light oil. It also needs iron plates if I remember correctly, you're not forgetting them are you?


Well that sure looks expensive as gently caress.

Eh. Try it with red conveyers - it still has an appreciable effect, especially against swarms with multiple big biters.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


If you're really eager to stuff your box as fast as possible you could always do this:

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


420 destroy biter spawn and kite the hordes to your forward firebase er'y day.



Does anyone know what effect having more than one shield in your armour has? Does it improve hitpoints/charge time, or is it simply wasted space?

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


I'm on my second playthrough and loving around with blueprints for the first time, and they're AMAZING. Late-game green circuits are basically the fastest thing you churn through, so I've put this:



on a blueprint and am plonking one down wherever I find an iron and a copper deposit next to each other. It probably could do with a little bit of tweaking, and I need to work out what the number of miners for input should be, but it's in perfect equilibrium (the rightmost electric furnace, topmost copper wire maker, and rightmost chip maker don't operate constantly but they do operate), and all you need is a couple of raw material feeds with sufficient throughput.

This fuckin' game.


e: I wish there was a way to export blueprints and share them with others. Does anyone who knows about programming or who's had a hand in developing mods know if that would be possible?

Breetai fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2014 around 06:18

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Pre-electricity I always make a loop of 3-4* burner miners->wood box->burner inserter->burner miner as a (near)-perpetual coal-mining operation, and as the inserters only load coal into the miners when they run low and otherwise let the boxes fill, and insterters use so little power that a few lumps of coal will run them for hours, it will happily mine away forever. It actually saved my bacon in one game where my electric power briefly outstripped my electric mining ability and caused a blackout that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to get myself out of, because I had 4 full boxes of coal that I could reroute to the main coal conveyer.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Mr. Wynand posted:

I like to "control" my pollution via an artificial forrest composed of laser towers.

In my current gameI have copper wire fabs running as fast as blue belts can take them to feed circuitboard fabs. Having some serious issues just getting the wire out of the way of the output inserters though. I think I'm going to have to make parallel series of these things - not sure what else I can do.

I really hate the mid-game back-and-forth between expansions I'm starting to think I just have to make double-track the standard and use trains for personal transportation. The car is just a deathtrap inside a busy base. Or just hold out for robot legs I guess, though I think trains without cargo are still quite a bit faster?

I'm trying to automate logistics bot and laser turret construction but its taking for ever since i have to keep going between expos. And my bottleneck is now oil which means I have to make yet another expansion - beh. Can you unload oil barrels with fabs directly adjacent to the train station or do you need to queue the full barrels and empties for processing between deliveries? Long range pipes are a PITA and not reusable for non-oil things.

At the stage you're at, with a stable base and mass production feasible, your top priority should really be getting Power Armour 2 up and running. Prioritize speed over firepower. This is because it makes everything so much faster (you're not quite as fast as a train but you don't waste time dicking around with set routes and can travel as the crow flies), and because mobility is absolutely mandatory mid-to-late game where you need to clear out massive nests of Big Biters. My power armour was this:


You move lightning fast, only (slowly) drain power from batteries when moving and firing, have great shield protection, and 2 turrets is more than enough to take out Medium and Small Biters - Big Biters are too much of a pain in the rear end to take care of generally without kiting them to a laser tower forest anyway (which your speed allows you to do).

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


President Ark posted:

Also, don't try to balance your production. If you don't have enough of something, just keep adding more sources of it. If that eats up the inputs for it, then go and add more of those. And so on and so forth.




This. At one point I was genuinely considering transporting green circuits by train from multiple dedicated sub-bases because the demand for them is so freaking high that fast conveyers weren't cutting it.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


I'm playing around with doing on-demand manufacturing for higher-tech components rather than just running everything from a central bus and branching. The reduced footprint is nice, but things can get byzantine when you run low on space!


Try and work out the flow of everything here.



Engine manufacturing is a little better. I could probably rework it to only need one cog factory, but eh.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Stick Insect posted:

I like the emtpy space between the main bus lines. I've been doing a main bus design myself and it gets pretty cramped, this should really help making branch-off points. This is one I'm keeping in mind for my next factory.

One the idea struck me it wouldn't go away, so I ended up reinstalling, and it makes the occasional branch-off to feed a product line so much easier.

Mind you, leaving a 2-space gap allows you to do this, which is even easier. I'll be doing it my next game.




Deadmeat5150 posted:

Buses are for sissies who can't handle massive sprawling factories that utilize a complex system of trains to keep product moving.

Eh. I think that for four components in particular - Iron/Steel/Copper plates and also Green Circuits, they're a fundamental part of any base. Running off a massive line of green inserters, however, is just wasteful.

Breetai fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2014 around 03:16

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Every time I play a new game, I end up using more and more features and marvelling at how easy they make things. This time around I used blueprints extensively, and had almost every product my factory produced routed to provider chests. It's amazing how fast you can grow your base when you can put down a block of 25 solar panels or 48 capacitors or a laser tower defense array with the click of a button.


That's 30 iron furnaces and 27 copper, plus to the north a small extension with another 12 copper and 6 iron feeding a dedicated green circuit factory.

I have to say, though, effectivity modules are the most useful while you're getting to the endgame, and they should be prioritized as soon as possible. This is the map of my endgame base:




There's practically zero pollution despite this being taken at a time when I was cranking out L3 modules in preparation for building the rocket defense; I never had a single map tile go over the lowest shade of pollution indicator, and biter attacks were so rare that it was like playing in peaceful mode. I also was able to run the base on pure solar power from about 5 hours in, and never built more than a single row of steam engines.



Look at how low that killcount is.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Kinetica posted:

Do the items need to be premade for the construction bots to build it, or can you have them in the player storage and have the bots draw from there?

EDIT

Holy poo poo. I'm not even sure how to do half of that half as efficiently.

Have assemblers build everything you want to be able to auto place and get them to put completed structures into passive provider chests with 1-2 open slots so there is a reasonable stockpile and your bots will grab them and place them. Honestly you should build an assembler for everything you want to build in your base and never construct anything by hand once you've teched to steam power.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


So I'm thinking of setting up a sort of hybrid base with just one main bus of raw materials running down one side, and then infinitely expandable manufacturing clusters branching off from them in one direction. By raw materials I'm meaning anything that can't be directly manufactured in an assembler - basically so that the line can support constructing anything in the game. Given that anything that's only required in the Liquid Processing side of things can be kept to a dedicated liquid processing area (e.g. I won't need to run a main bus for Sulfur as it's just going to be shunted directly into the chemical plant for making sulfuric acid), I'm counting Iron, Copper and Steel plates, Coal, Stone, Batteries, and Plastic.

Am I missing anything?

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Phobophilia posted:

Plastics don't need bussing, they go straight into the advanced circuits assemblers. Stone and coal aren't used enough, I often tear out those busses after my logibots come online.

But you do want to bus basic circuits.

Hmm. Advanced circuits and laser towers, yeah.

Also like your idea about basic circuits. Yeah they're technically an intermediary item, but they're so ubiquitous that you'd end up needing additional assemblies for half of your poo poo. Good call.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


I'd nothing else this would greatly simplify your ability to set up assemblers with four recipe components.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


I while ago I posted about making a main bus that was just the basic building blocks i.e. every component that couldn't be manufactures by an assembler, or that it would be impractical to manufacture on demand due to how much of them are used (i.e. green circuits). I also posted about leaving a 2-square gap between belts, as this would let you branch components off the bus without worrying about having to alter the belts of any other components.

Its. So. Orderly.



Left to right is steel, iron, copper, green circuits, plastic, batteries, red circuits. I'm manufacturing almost everything in assemblers rather than by hand, and can put down 48 accumulator/24 solar panel groupings and 8 turret & wall groupings using blueprints only. My research/science production is infinitely expandable, as is circuitry and smelting. You can just see where raw copper/iron plates enter the factory at the very bottom.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


See the series of seven parallel conveyors bringing the primary components to the various assemblies? That's the bus. Basically the main artery of the factory from which all of the other items are manufactured.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Belasarius posted:

Yes I thought so but I don't think I've heard the terminology before. Err how is it fed?

Fullscreen the pic and look closely. Down the very bottom there's only conveyors for iron and copper (and plastic, but that was added later in the game). All of the other lines are created by branching off basic components with a splitter (running them under nearby bus conveyors if there are any in the way using underground belts), running them to assemblers, and then for certain components running lines back from those assemblers and adding a line to the main bus.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Phssthpok posted:

There's no need to keep plastic flowing past the advanced circuit assemblers. It has no other use.

Personally, I like to make plastic right at the advanced circuit section, as I find it simpler to bring petrol and lube to the solids area than to send various solids over to the liquid area.


It's a bit situational, I'm extending it upwards as there's a couple of deposits to the north that I'm going to use to set up a dedicated secondary red chip factory for when required throughput exceeds the ability of a nondedicated factory to handle.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Baloogan posted:

yo momma so fat shes the reason why dos uses a file allocation table

yo momma give blowjobs like a failed os interface unveiling; ain't no-one wanna see her bob

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Looks like the new version broke the rocket defense countdown - there's no timer and leaving the game to run for ten mins does nothing.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Evilreaver posted:

Mine worked just today after patching. Did you remember to turn it on? You have to open it and hit 'go', and it has to be powered remember.



Yup. Clicked on the button, got the message 'ship landing started', but no countdown timer or anything.


e: Haaaang on. It may be because it's a custom map I set up; I went to a previous playthrough's savegame and placing the defense worked. Whoops!

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


DaveKap posted:

You do because the tech for the chests costs blue.

So here's something I beat the game w/o ever touching. Red and green wires. What the heck are these things actually good for besides adding the "red wire" Minecraft Turing machine ability to Factorio?

You can make steam engines that only operate when your accumulators are empty during the hour or so that you transition from dirty to clean energy.

You can make inserters only insert a certain number of items into chests - which is mooted by the ability to open/close chest slots.

Although there may be one potential use for them - does anyone know if wires can be attached to roboports?

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Neruz posted:

Would probably make more sense for that to give purple beakers directly and then alien artifacts become a sort of shiny reward item that supercharges your lategame research

Nah, because certain recipes require the actual artifacts themselves.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Evilreaver posted:

I have my module factory crapping out 3 L3 modules a minute now...





Please post a pic of this.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


So I was loving around in Factorio and decided to see how small of a space I could squeeze a Steel Plate processing production line into. Then I had a brainwave.



It takes raw Iron ore on the left, and deposits it on the conveyer to the right. You can see the filters on the two rightmost inserters, and the logic for the leftmost ones are as follows:

Top > 4 Iron Plates in the crate.
Bottom < 3 Iron Plates in the crate.

Basically the logic stops more ore from being inserted into the furnace once the required number for a Steel Plate have been forged, then once the first plate from the box enters the furnace it switches the furnace to Steel production until the Steel Plate is finished, at which point it becomes available for Iron production again.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


boatiemathmo posted:

I can't follow this. How does the logic stop more iron ore being dumped into the furnace when you want to switch to steel? It seems like the iron ore inserter doesn't have any logic on it.

I also don't see why you need the steel logic inserter - surely you want it to take ANY steel you produce and remove it?

Caveat: I haven't got up to logic yet, so maybe I just don't understand how they work.

See how the read wire connects the leftmost inserters to the chest? when a red wire is set up you can specify a condition for operation for connected Smart Inserters. The conditions are:

Top > 4 Iron Plates in the crate. (i.e. when there are enough iron plates to craft a single Steel Plate, dump them into the furnace)
Bottom < 3 Iron Plates in the crate. (i.e. stop putting in ore when there are 3 plates in the crate, which happens to coincide with there also being on plate undergoing smelting in the furnace, plus 1-2 iron ore preloaded onto the furnace, for a total of minimum 5 iron plates, allowing for steel smelting)

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Phobophilia posted:

The question is, do blueprints preserve logistics logic?

Like, I'm not manually wiring up a 50 furnace system.



Yarp.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


The day they implement a system that lets you hold-click and drag underground pipes like you can hold-click and drag electrical poles for maximum reach efficiency I'll be a happy man.

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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Throughput, throughput, throughput!

For the longest time I was constructing my train station ore dropoffs like this:



Good enough for government work, right? The trouble is that while it (eventually) fills all of the crates, it takes a while to feed the second line because the first line takes priority, and if your mining base starts to get exhausted to the point where you're not producing as much as you're transporting, the far side crates tend to not refill, which means they'll eventually empty; meaning that your trains take twice as long to load up.

This:


is far better: both rows of crates fill up equally from the get-go, and that means that your trains spend less time at the station from the first trip they make. Incidentally, a carriage being loaded by 8 crates takes just a fraction over 15 seconds to fully load/unload when you've researched every inserter stack size tech.


As for smelting, this:



works really, really well for me. It's constructed out of two blueprint templates: the mess of conveyers and splitters up top that take in one input belt and one output belt, and the following template:



It's got excellent, perfectly balanced throughput, is easily optimised by filling out new rows before adding new columns, and most importantly four templates (i.e. 8*2 smelters) side-by-side fits snugly within the maximum spacing for roboports that link up together.

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