|
Welcome earthlings to the Awful Book of the Month! In this thread, we choose one work of Resources: Project Gutenberg - http://www.gutenberg.org - A database of over 17000 books available online. If you can suggest books from here, that'd be the best. SparkNotes - http://www.sparknotes.com/ - A very helpful Cliffnotes-esque site, but much better, in my opinion. If you happen to come in late and need to catch-up, you can get great character/chapter/plot summaries here.  For recommendations on future material, suggestions on how to improve the club, or just a general rant, feel free to PM me. Past Books of the Month 2011: January: John Keats, Endymion Febuary/March: Miguel Cervantes, Don Quixote April: Laurell K. Hamilton, Obsidian Butterfly May: Richard A. Knaak - Diablo #1: Legacy of Blood June: Pamela Britton - On The Move July: Raymond Chandler - The Big Sleep August: Louis L'Amour - Bendigo Shafter September: Ian Fleming - Moonraker October: Ray Bradbury - Something Wicked This Way Comes November: John Ringo - Ghost December: James Branch Cabell - Jurgen 2012: January: G.K. Chesterton - The Man Who Was Thursday Febuary: M. Somerset Maugham - Of Human Bondage March: Joseph Heller - Catch-22 April: Zack Parsons - Liminal States May: Haruki Murakami - Norwegian Wood June: James Joyce - Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man July: William S. Burroughs - Naked Lunch August: William Faulkner - The Sound & The Fury September/October: Leo Tolstoy - War & Peace November: David Mitchell - Cloud Atlas December: Kurt Vonnegut - Mother Night 2013 January: Walter M. Miller - A Canticle for Liebowitz Febuary: Alfred Bester - The Stars My Destination March: Kazuo Ishiguro - Remains Of The Day April: Don Delillo - White Noise May: Anton LeVey - The Satanic Bible June/July: Susanna Clarke - Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell August: Michael Swanwick - Stations of the Tide September: John Wyndham - Day of the Triffids October: Shirley Jackson - The Haunting of Hill House November: Iain Banks - The Wasp Factory December: Roderick Thorp - Nothing Lasts Forever 2014: January: Ursula K. LeGuin - The Left Hand of Darkness February: Mikhail Bulgalov - Master & Margarita March: Richard P. Feynman -- Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! April: James Joyce -- Dubliners May: Gabriel Garcia Marquez -- 100 Years of Solitude Current: A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn The entire text is available online for free right here with Zinn's permission. quote:"My history... describes the inspiring struggle of those who have fought slavery and racism (Frederick Douglass, William Lloyd Garrison, Fannie Lou Hamer, Bob Moses), of the labor organizers who have led strikes for the rights of working people (Big Bill Haywood, Mother Jones, César Chávez), of the socialists and others who have protested war and militarism (Eugene V. Debs, Helen Keller, the Rev. Daniel Berrigan, Cindy Sheehan). My hero is not Theodore Roosevelt, who loved war and congratulated a general after a massacre of Filipino villagers at the turn of the century, but Mark Twain, who denounced the massacre and satirized imperialism.[5][6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's_History_of_the_United_States About the Author Howard Zinn (August 24, 1922 – January 27, 2010) was an American historian, author, playwright, and social activist. He was a political science professor at Boston University for 24 years and taught history at Spelman College for 7 years. Zinn wrote more than 20 books, including his best-selling and influential A People's History of the United States.[2] He wrote extensively about the civil rights and anti-war movements, and labor history of the United States. His memoir, You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train, was also the title of a 2004 documentary about Zinn's life and work.[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Zinn Discussion: This thread is for general discussion of anything you think of while reading this book. Whether you liked it or hated the book, whether you liked or hated the author personally, other books it reminds you of, that thing your dad did that one time, how Foucault's theory of discourse provides a useful lens to discuss gender relationships in the text, farts, whatever. The biggest problem we've had with the Book of the Month has been lack of participation, so just saying something that demonstrates you've actually read a page or two shows people that everyone else is doing it and encourages the next guy to jump into our nice warm lake as well. Questions & Themes: How different is this from the history you read in school growing up? From your current perceptions? Is that answer different for people who went to school in 80's or 90's and for people born in more recent decades? This book is deliberately slanted to give a particular historical perespective; is that a bad thing? Is it necessary? Is it oversimplified? Is Howard Zinn just a crazed Marxist with an axe to grind? Final Note: If you have any suggestions to change, improve or assess the book club generally, please PM or email me -- i.e., keep it out of this thread -- at least until into the last five days of the month, just so we don't derail discussion of the current book with meta-discussion. I do want to hear new ideas though, seriously, so please do actually PM or email me or whatever, or if you can't do either of those things, just hold that thought till the last five days of the month before posting it in this thread. Thanks, and I hope everyone enjoys the book!
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 04:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 18:28 |
|
|
Oh, this looks like fun. I'm Canadian, so most of the history I got was Canadian history (and pretty whitewashed in retrospect, though not as badly as it could have been, I think) but I've been meaning to read this one for a while.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 23:08
|
|
|
Count me in. I'm a Brit and I don't really know anything about American history. They taught us about Native Americans and the Civil War - but apart from that, nope! Time to learn.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2014 11:42
|
|
|
Count me in, I am in college for history, and I remember reading this book in high school. I remember disagree with some of Zinn's ideology later in the book, mostly about World war 2. But I still like the book especially as a goon who loves history.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2014 23:52
|
|
|
I'm in, I guess. I hang around in D&D a lot so this is right up my alley. Not to mention it's been on my "To read" list for going on a year now...
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
I have a copy of this on my bookshelf that someone gave to me when they moved, but I never read it. I'm already reading a history of Canada's labour movement right now, so I think I'll read this along with you guys, and note what similarities/differences pop up between the two countries. People seem to either love or hate Zinn, so this'll be an interesting read.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2014 19:41
|
|
|
I remember reading this a while back. Honestly it's a pretty depressing book, I had an edition that went up to the Reagan years and just about stopped there because it's was so monotonously negative. Not to criticize his interpretation of history or anything, just it can be hard to stomach...well, also the writing quality seemed to kind of drop off as it became more about contemporary things, too. Anybody who likes this, though, should really read Lies My Teacher Told Me, which covers a lot of the same stuff, but has a more explicit focus on tackling overlooked subjects in American high school history education.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2014 02:12
|
|
|
Read this some time back. It's worth it alone just for the quotes and perspective from people that aren't really talked about or glossed over in American history books. I definitely agree with the point he makes in the introduction(?) about all history books being inherently ideological and that everything has bias. I do also agree that it gets more dull by the end but I couldn't place my finger on why. Edit: I graduated not too long ago, in the grand scheme of things, and I know the AP US history class in the year after mine got signed this to read, and this was a lower middle class, minority-majority high school in Texas, so take from that what you will Mecca-Benghazi fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jun 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2014 09:25
|
|
|
I started to read this online a while ago, but stopped because gently caress reading things off a website on a PC monitor. However I just got this for my birthday, so I'm going to jump in and finish it off. One thing I remember is looking up Las Casas, the preacher mentioned in the opening chapter and finding him quite interesting. When he arrived in the USA he was shocked at the treatment of the natives. Although it took him a while to develop a complete understanding of the tragedy of slavery, at one point he advocated using black slaves instead of Native Americans before later rejecting all slavery as immoral, he seems to have been a pretty cool dude. I've found one of his books online at Gutenberg, which has the catchy title of A Brief Account of the Destruction of the Indies Or, a faithful NARRATIVE OF THE Horrid and Unexampled Massacres, Butcheries, and all manner of Cruelties, that Hell and Malice could invent, committed by the Popish Spanish Party on the inhabitants of West-India, TOGETHER With the Devastations of several Kingdoms in America by Fire and Sword, for the space of Forty and Two Years, from the time of its first Discovery by them. The short excerpt I found of History of the Indies (here: https://www2.stetson.edu/secure/history/hy10430/lascasashistory.html) was even more horrifying than the quotes Zinn uses in the first chapter in People's History.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2014 18:41
|
|
|
That's a little misleading. De las Casas wasn't operating in the area of what would later be the US; more Central America and the Caribbean. Also, the title you quote there is from a Protestant reprint of his work for propaganda purposes, hence the broad attempt to implicate the Pope (a strange thing for a Bishop to be doing). It'd be the equivalent of telling Charles V and the Pope to go gently caress themselves, then sailing back to Spain to see their faces.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
inktvis posted:That's a little misleading. De las Casas wasn't operating in the area of what would later be the US; more Central America and the Caribbean. It makes it clear in The People's History that he wasn't involved with the mainland USA, with the first chapter talking more widely about the initial colonisation and subjugation of indigenous people across the Americas in general. Really you have to, it's a key element of the history of the USA and you can't write a history, even an ideological one, without mentioning it or other pre-USA information like it's history as a British colony. I think the main goal behind this focus is to target the legend of Columbus, a figure who still is respected by many people of the USA but was far more so 35 years ago when criticism of him was far less mainstream. As for the title, that's disappointing and means his balls are merely large rather than the giant size I thought they were.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Apparently people aren't Zinn fans around here after all :P Anyway, it's time for nominations for next month's book. Throw me suggestions and I'll put together the poll in a few days.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 13:56
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Apparently people aren't Zinn fans around here after all :P Just not a fan of American history :/ . I've been looking for an excuse to read Billy Lynn's Long Half-Time walk so that'd be neat. There's also Dictionary of the Khazars that I've seen mentioned around here lately that might be good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 14:57
|
|
|
Karel Čapek's War with the Newts. Hard to go wrong with Čapek - a generous, inventive, widely-admired writer; reminds me a bit of Bulgakov.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 15:31
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Apparently people aren't Zinn fans around here after all :P I'm gunna say Deathless by Catherynne M. Valente because we've just had five months in a row of male authors, last year there was only two women authors, and the year before that, fuckin' none. Deathless is Valente's postmodern attempt at writing Russian folklore, and from what I hear, she succeeds like crazy, although I haven't read it yet. Alternatively, either Kindred or Fledgling by Octavia E. Butler because she's one of the best fuckin' authors ever, but I've already read most of her entire catalog.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 15:32
|
|
|
Whalley posted:I'm gunna say Deathless by Catherynne M. Valente because we've just had five months in a row of male authors, last year there was only two women authors, and the year before that, fuckin' none. Deathless is Valente's postmodern attempt at writing Russian folklore, and from what I hear, she succeeds like crazy, although I haven't read it yet. Oh yeah, this is excellent. Read this already this year and enjoyed it quite a bit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 15:45
|
|
|
Pornographic Memory posted:I remember reading this a while back. Honestly it's a pretty depressing book, I had an edition that went up to the Reagan years and just about stopped there because it's was so monotonously negative. Not to criticize his interpretation of history or anything, just it can be hard to stomach...well, also the writing quality seemed to kind of drop off as it became more about contemporary things, too. I'll try to dust it off and muscle through when I finish A World Undone by Meyer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Apparently people aren't Zinn fans around here after all :P It's a bummer though--that there's some cynical explanation for every triumph in American history: the Declaration of Independence, abolition, suffrage, the New Deal, the Marshall Plan... that it all came with the explicit approval or at least acquiescence of the capitalist American aristocracy, as a means to their own ends. I had no idea how storied the brutal history of American imperialism was, either. But Zinn definitely communicates that while there's not been "victory" against the wealthy capitalists, if the poor hadn't constantly made a big stink of things, they would be in even worse shape, and there's some small hope in that: as long as unsatisfied workers continue to cause more trouble than their labour is worth in those conditions, quality of life will go up. The accounts of some strikes are definitely repetitive, and past a certain point, the individual stories add little. But I still think this is a must-read history book. Zackarotto fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 00:43
|
|
|
I know we just did a non-fiction book for the past month but just to throw this out there, I've been interested in reading Capital in the Twenty-First Century by Thomas Piketty since it's definitely polarizing but has received a lot of attention (noteworthy?) since it has been published. I thought it would be a lot easier to read as a group.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 04:18
|
|
|
Any remaining suggestions? Poll setup got a little delayed by the Great Downtime. I may trawl through the most recent "real literature" thread for some more suggestions. Capital in the Twenty First Century is probably out just because it's so big and so technical and I think also somewhat back-ordered. Plus, there is a good running thread on in it in D&D already: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3625993
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Any remaining suggestions? Poll setup got a little delayed by the Great Downtime. I may trawl through the most recent "real literature" thread for some more suggestions. Cheers! Thanks for the thread link, it's exactly what I was looking for. IIRC it's out for the kindle if people have that option. As for recent literature, I was looking through the Nobel Prize thread and a Scandinavian author on the list that had been mentioned by other users sounds like it would be worthwhile.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
Furious Lobster posted:Cheers! Thanks for the thread link, it's exactly what I was looking for. IIRC it's out for the kindle if people have that option. Do you mean Knut Hamsen? Hunger would probably be a decent pick but I'm a little worried about making it an Official Book Barn Pick due to the whole "author was literally a huge hitler fan" thing. I really like the idea of picking a female author, but Deathless looks like it's fantasy -- is it? I'll probably add it to my personal list regardless, just to see how it compares to Jurgen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 20:47
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Do you mean Knut Hamsen? Hunger would probably be a decent pick but I'm a little worried about making it an Official Book Barn Pick due to the whole "author was literally a huge hitler fan" thing. In regards to the list, I haven't read any of the authors so I added them to my to-read collection; in regards to the Scandinavian discussion, there are two other female authors mentioned, Sigrid Undset's Kristin Lavransdatter and Selma Lagerlöf's Gösta Berling's Saga though I'd like to read Pär Lagerkvist's The Dwarf because I think it would be easier since it's slightly more modern. I don't want to start another one of those cyclical debates that pop-up in the Sci-Fi thread about not reading authors' works because they're racist scumbags but he's Scandinavian and wrote something supposedly good so put it on a poll? I haven't gone through the official Book Barn Picks from before but while the authors may not have been on Knut's level, I don't believe that they were all saints either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 21:36
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I really like the idea of picking a female author, but Deathless looks like it's fantasy -- is it? I'll probably add it to my personal list regardless, just to see how it compares to Jurgen. How about The Secret History by Donna Tartt, a murder-mystery with no actual mystery, about a group of arrogant intellectual snobs who just hate modern life. Or what about The Accidental by Ali Smith, a book that hundreds of people absolutely loathe because it is written with deliberate affectations, about a family of miserable shits learning to take a step back and look at what they actually have. Or maybe The Fifth Child by Doris Lessing, a quick story about a child that might not be human but this might be a little too "genre" for what you're doing with book of the month.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 14:36
|
|
|
To anyone who liked People's History, Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Lowen, despite the bratty title, is an excellent, well-researched and well-sourced book. The author takes on the twelve history textbooks used in American schools and puts them to challenge against the accepted historical facts; the results are predictably depressing, you see how much of history is chopped off in order to make the easily digestible, ideologically-pleasing narrative.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2014 07:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 18:28 |
|
|
Another good one if you enjoyed Zinn is A People's History of the Supreme Court by Peter Irons. It is essentially a work of critical legal studies written for laypeople, and worth the read. If you like the revisionist perspective of Zinn, Irons will likely mesh with your politics, but even if you don't it's a coherent, non-screechy read. Some of the stories behind the cases are worth reading as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2014 01:00
|
|
