How to Train Your Dragon 2: Big Scaly Kitties Return

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > How to Train Your Dragon 2: Big Scaly Kitties Return

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

All the adults have a Scottish accent in those movies, what with being voiced by Scotts (Gerard Butler, Craig Ferguson, David Tennant) I guess she was trying to go for the same thing? I don't know, I haven't seen in english yet.

I guess Drago is a bit disappointing if you think about the theme they seemed to be going for at the beginning of the movie, but I never really doubted Stoick's word when he called him insane and dangerous, not to mention the thing about branding Eret for his failure. However, as a straight-up Maleficent-like baddie, I thought he was great! Great design, imposing presence, powerful, scary! As some said, having his relationship with the Alpha be sincere and loving, not unlike Ursula and her eels in The Little Mermaid, would have been great! Too bad that they missed out on that.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2014 21:15

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:39

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

Pick posted:

I also thought the introductory scene with Astrid was leading up to her becoming chieftan instead, because they're going on about how she's more suited to that lifestyle and those responsibilities, where it would mean Hiccup giving up what he really loves.

I have seen some nice analysis about this. Hiccup's big problem, in fact, is that he already is the chief, but doesn't realize it. It's his vision that Berk is following, not his father's. He couldn't have done it if Stoick hadn't supported him, but it's still a fact that those are his ideas that his father got off the ground! That's why Stoick was already willing to retire and make Hiccup the new chief, because he already was, in a sense. Astrid probably knew it too, and she's better suited for the role of a number two and soldier, anyways.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2014 21:29

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

Neo Helbeast posted:

Also we see that he clearly has his own actual people army but he never uses them in the final battle.

I think that was the point of him saying to his men to "join him on Berk" : he went there alone with the Wildebeast and his army of dragons. He never thought he would need the help of his armada now that his Wildebeast was the one undisputed commander of the dragons and that the "other" Dragon Master was without a mount and with a thoroughly crushed spirit.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2014 01:18

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

redcheval posted:

I really feel like I need to see this movie again to get an accurate idea on how I felt about the themes and how they all fit together. I think there's some unexplored potential here to link up elements of the story relating to persuasion and reason to achieve your goals, while also incorporating the honest reality that there are some (often dangerous) people that you simply cannot reason with.

My takeaway from the ending scene was that as much as Drago believed it, the Alpha did not have magical, insurmountable control over other dragons; this is something that can be contested. The line about 'good people under the influence of bad people will do bad things' is relevant to this reading. I think the final word of the film is to assert that there will be occasions and people that need to be fought back against and defended from and can't be reasoned to a peaceful mindset. On the other hand, many individuals do 'bad things' under circumstantial influences and CAN be reasoned with, and as you can see in the final confrontation, when all the dragons move from Drago's side to the side of Berk and Toothless confronts the Alpha, using reason to persuade these people to, essentially, 'the side of good', results in a cohesive, generally peaceful unit that still has the means to defend itself against those who intend to mindlessly do harm.

e: It's a pretty optimistic message overall, and I think it makes sense with all the cues the film includes about people being able/not being able to change. It's more of a "people can be jerks but they are trying to be good people, and in a lot of cases are influenced, manipulated or otherwise coerced into doing bad things", while acknowledging that 'true bad people' genuinely exist, but are a pretty small minority.

I think Drago's biggest misunderstanding was to think that the Wildebeast and the Alpha were always one and the same, but they're actually not. The Alpha is a position granted to a dragon by the other dragons because he/she has proven capable and willing to protect and serve the other dragons. More often than not, that position goes to the biggest and strongest dragon around, like the Wildebeast, the Red Death or some of the biggest dragons in the TV series (the Fireworm Queen and the Screaming Death come to mind), but it can be accorded to another dragon who's proven himself as a leader and protector.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2014 21:01

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

Count me on the sides of the people who are a bit miffed that Astrid didn't get to be the one to kick butt in the few human-on-human action scenes.

wdarkk posted:

Just checked out Dragon Riders of Berk. The VAs for the TV show are supposed to be the same, but they sound completely different to me.

EDIT: Maybe it's just Hiccup.

Hiccup, Astrid, Tuffnut, Fishlegs and Spitelout (David Tennant) kept their VAs from the movie. Snotlout, Ruffnut, Stoick and Gobber were replaced. Mark Hammil and David Faustino are bad guys.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 23:20

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

api call girl posted:

Wait, BUD BUNDY?

Also Mako from The Legend Of Korra. Which is of course all kinds of hilarious when you consider the kind of guy his character in Riders is.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 23:32

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

wdarkk posted:

Maybe it was youtube being a piece of poo poo, maybe he was sick for that episode, but to me Hiccup sounded like he was 40.

That my be the dialog more than the voice, because it is the same.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2014 20:04

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

DNS posted:

Also I agree with whoever pointed out that it seems like they made Toothless a lot slower in this.

It may simply be that this time we've got a lot more dragons to compare him to. In the first movie, he never really flew alongside other dragons, but in this movie he's flying alongside other fast dragons (Astrid's Deadly Nadder, Stormfly, or Valka's mount) so his speed isn't as obvious as before.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2014 20:31

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

McDragon posted:

Oh, and Toothless ending up as the Alpha was really great. That last little bit at the end with another look at dragon racing I was half hoping he'd just alpha the other dragons to stick the sheep in his goal. Although that would kind of undermine one of the messages of the film I guess.

He didn't even carry it in his goal, Hiccup dropped the sheep in Astrid's basket. It must be a tradition amongst Berk's men to give their sheep to their ladies?

X_Toad fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 21, 2014

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 00:00

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:39

X_Toad: Apr 2, 2011

Magnus Condomus posted:

Dawn of the Dragon Racers feels like it was probably an episode of the TV show they just tacked on. Nolan North included.

Yeah, that episode is made in the style of the TV show, I don't exactly know why? To be fair, the bonus of the first movie wasn't exactly the high-end animation of DreamWorks for a good chunk of it, so I guess it's not surprising?

Not keeping the original VAs doesn't feel right though. Who did they hire to voice Ruffnut this time, by the way?

# ¿ Nov 5, 2014 23:17

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