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Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

A human heart posted:

I think Bernhard agrees

"The activity that goes on in schools, and especially in secondary schools, consists of constantly cramming the pupil full of putrid, useless knowledge and so turning his whole nature into the antithesis of all that is natural. The result is that whenever we have dealings with the products of such schools, we find ourselves dealing with unnatural people, whose real nature the schools have managed to destroy. Secondary schools, and, above all, grammar schools, serve only to putrefy human nature, and it is time we considered abolishing these centres of putrefaction, as in fact they should be, because it has long been obvious that they are nothing but centres for the putrefaction of human nature. They deserve to be abolished. The world would be better off if all these so-called middle schools, grammar schools, secondary schools, and so on were abolished and we were to confine education to elementary schools and universities. For elementary schools are not destructive, they do not destroy anything in a young person's nature; and universities are there for those who suited to the pursuit of learning and would be equipped fora higher education even without having attended a secondary school. Secondary schools, on the other hand, should be abolished because they bring inevitable ruin upon a large proportion of the young. Our educational system has become sick over the centuries, and the young who are forced into it are infected and become sick in their millions, with no prospect of a cure. If society wishes to change, it must change its educational system, because if it does not change, if it does not impose some restriction on itself and acquiesce to a large extent in its own abolition, it will assuredly be at an end. As for the educational system, it must be changed fundamentally. Changing a bit here and a bit there is not enough. Everything should be changed - unless we want to see the earth populated solely by unnatural people who have been destroyed through the wilful flouting of nature. And the first institutions to be abolished should be the secondary schools, in which millions of young people are placed every year to face sickness and annihilation."

I finished gathering evidence pretty recently. It was good as hell, especially the part when he runs into that construction worker he vaguely remembered from childhood, the guy says 'nothing matters,' Bernhard adopts it as his motto and they have lunch. My edition came with essays on his prizes and I think maybe some speeches he gave, but I haven't read those.

Which Bernhard would oyu recommend, given that I've also read The Loser, The Limeworks, and Extinction?

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Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!
can anyone recommend a good translation of zola's germinal?

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

Safety Biscuits posted:

Just started The Last Samurai by Helen DeWitt and it's all people shouting nonsense in Greek and talking about music theory and suddenly all the vowels vanish. It owns.

the last samurai is criminally under read, mostly due to dewitt's publisher loving her over


also, the elena ferrante books are pretty good and their success in america will, hopefully, lead to more publishers investing in translated literature

Finicums Wake fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Dec 6, 2017

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!
i'm alternating between if on a winter's night a traveler and the glass bead game. both are good.

the only other book i've read that centers around a game (or games), player of games by ian m banks, is genre bullshit, but i like the whole game concept, so if anyone can recommend me something along those lines i'd be happy to read that poo poo

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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Can't post for 8 years!

Guy A. Person posted:

I'm reading the Last Samurai by DeWitt and it's extremely good

i liked it a lot. when you're done, read up on the book's publication history. it drove dewitt to (attempted) suicide, iirc

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

Bilirubin posted:

Moving this discussion down here from "what did you just finish" because I'm sure most reading goons aren't going to be as interested in me obsessing over Blood Meridian (read: nobody cares Bilirubin)


This is an excellent essay citing other essays that I will be going to next on the religious and gnostic imagery in Blood Meridian. It's really tying together many things I caught just in passing on my first read through and is, to me, a fairly convincing argument.

I mean, I loved Gravity's Rainbow a lot but it seems expansive, and unfocused as a result, thematically whereas Blood Meridian is very narrowly focused but the depth is enormous. And I'm a sucker for this religious symbolism.

Quoting this post so I can find it later....

Blood Meridian is good as hell. Been a while since I've read it, but I'm planning on going back through it soon + reading (in full this time) Notes on Blood Meridian by John Sepich.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!
i listened to a recording of a confederacy of dunces that was, during the dialogue heavy parts at least, a lot funnier than the book. and lolita, as read by scar from the lion king, was also good. in both cases i had read the book before listening though.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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A human heart posted:

Audiobooks are not literature. Take it to the pod cast and radio forum.

they're not a replacement for reading, for sure. but whenever i have bad eye strain or a migraine or i just have to drive for hours and hours, putting on an audiobook is nice, in my opinion

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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Can't post for 8 years!

Bandiet posted:

^ there's a good example. Kind of amusing, but not enough to read all that loose conversational prose devoid of aesthetic value. It probably took an hour to write at most. At that rate he might as well turn it into a Gertrude Stein-ish 1000 page labyrinth of silliness, but instead that one rant is like a significant chunk of a 100 page novel.

i can understand why someone might dislike bernhard's prose style, but "devoid of aesthetic value"? really?

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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derp posted:

just finished reading rameau's nephew/d'alembert's dream and the latter especially made me feel we're living in some kind of dark age, when 250 years later this guy's thoughts still seem modern, if not even shocking to some.

that's not entirely surprising considering diderot was the greatest materialist philosopher until marx came along. lenin claimed that he almost arrived at the conclusions of dialectical materialism, even

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

chernobyl kinsman posted:

the accursed CIA, preventing us from adopting the stylistic brilliance that was socialist realism

the author of that tweet was dumb, yes. but the cia's involvement in american art during the cold war was definitely real, and asking how it influenced american fiction makes sense. there's a book called workshops of empire that came out in the last few years that was pretty well received. haven't read it myself, but anyone itt interested in the topic might want to look there rather than twitter

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

derp posted:

You guys really think that humanity as a whole is not getting better at writing fiction over time? That seems kind of a weird stance to take, as opposed to every other skill we have.

idk about humanity as a whole. america as a whole? yes. after learning a little about reading/writing culture throughout american history, this seems obvious to me. and i don't just mean how it was for the elites of society. true, there's a lot more formal education now, and it's avaliable to more people, but that only seems to have softened the decline. some of it has to do with people having more options: radio, television, the internet poo poo. some of it has to do with how those other mediums have affected the medium of writing. but i don't think that's close to being the whole story. again, i don't know a ton about this, but that's my distinct impression.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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i don't care if your book is socialist or if your book is fascist as long as it's a good book.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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Can't post for 8 years!

Eugene V. Dubstep posted:

Maybe judgments about the goodness of a book can extend beyond formal critique to include whether or not it explicitly or implicitly endorses racial/ethnic hierarchies.

you're not wrong. hell, even a book that explicitly or implicitly endorses racial/ethnic heirarches, such as junger's on the marble cliffs, can be valuable for non-formal reasons, if only because it gives us insights into the mind of a rightwinger.

edit: i haven't read it myself, but figure that going thru even something like camp of the saints is valuable for that same reason

Finicums Wake fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jun 30, 2019

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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even if you're a literary value monist, and one that thinks the sole value of a book is how it advances or impedes your political positions, there's still a good case to be made for reading the books of the (radical) right.

most people accept that there is more than one kind of literary value, politics being one of them, so the above probably reads like a strawman. nonetheless, it's worth pointing out that even such a narrow reader, the likes of which i described above, would get something out of reading something like, say, Celine or Mishima lol

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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my position is unassailable

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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edit: nvm this was an irony poisoned shithead response. please ignore this,,and my other posts, if u'd like

Finicums Wake fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Jun 30, 2019

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!
speaking of which, a good book Bout irony is 'A Rhetoric of Irony' by Wayne C. Booth


ps: the book has nothing to do with fascism. checking it out is safe. dw!

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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ulvir posted:

lincoln in the bardo, and I guess the english translation of my struggle (not H-man, but the norwegian knausgård

J_RBG posted:

Ferrante I can confirm is good


these 3 get my seal of approval

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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i'm reading pynchon rn. gravity's rainbow. will update if i actually finish it this time. it's coo as,hell so far tho

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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The North Tower posted:

Popping in popping in from page 123 to say that my girlfriend and I appreciated the recommendation of the Neapolitan novels by Ferrante.

i liked those a lot.

they got a lot of attention for a little bit. but, i think in part because they were initially so popular, i don't hear people talking about them anymore :(

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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i liked the covers. the american editions at least. the books contained more than a bit of melodrama, so having some dime-store romance-novel covers didn't seem entirely inappropriate. at least, to me.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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Can't post for 8 years!

mike12345 posted:

I just finished Martha Nussbaum's "Monarchy of Fear", a look at fear in politics from an anthropological, historical, and psychological perspective. You'll find her dissecting greek drama as well as the racism, sexism and misogyny of the Trump era. And it ends with a chapter on why not to lose hope. I think it's a pretty good read for everyone disillusioned with current day politics, a spin on Marianne Williamson's message, but without the hocus pocus and from a more scholarly position. Nussbaum's writing is very accessible without being dumb, to me it should be the gold standard of "pop philosophy" writing for the masses.

nussbaum is one of the few contemporary liberal political philosophers worth taking seriously, so i might check this out. i really liked what i read of her book on the capability approach to ethics.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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Can't post for 8 years!

J_RBG posted:

I'm about seven days through the decameron and I've got to say boccaccio would most definitely be into cuckold porn. Simply absurd number of cuckold stories. Basically it's good

what translation?

i've heard, and have been eyeing, that book for a while, but i'm not ready to commit to such an undertaking. i'll prob anly do it at sometime tho, so tell me how to read it in english, thanks

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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Can't post for 8 years!

J_RBG posted:

G H McWilliam. I don't know of many others, but I'd heard this one was good. It's ok, a bit stilted in my opinion but it does its job

cool, thanks. replying to this so i can at least dig it up later :D

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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Opulent Ceremony posted:

A recommendation for the thread: George Mills by Stanley Elkin.

Does anyone have a favorite Cynthia Ozick book? I've already read Heir to the Glimmering World.

puttermesser papers is very good, op

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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N posted:

Antkind is bleak and humorous.

i just started it, and it's funny so far. first work of literary fiction i've encountered that contains the word 'waifu' lol

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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blue squares posted:

Just read the opening chapter of Helen DeWitt’s Lightning Rods and that was one of the funniest things I’ve read in ages. I love comedic books, especially in bad times. Moby Dick is getting hard to read as I near the end.

once you finish it, please let me know, via this thread, whether it's as good as the last samurai, one of the best books of the last few decades. thanks in advance

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
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blue squares posted:

I want to read Last Samurai soon. I loved the movie

pls don't own me when i'm just asking for suggestions :(

edit: dewitt's blog is cool and good btw
http://paperpools.blogspot.com/?m=0

Finicums Wake fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Aug 14, 2020

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

Vogler posted:

What does this thread recommend re: horror? I think the genre got great potential but I'm always disappointed in what I read. The only exception in recent years is the terrific Fever Dream by Samanta Schweblin.

the golem by meyrink

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Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

TrixRabbi posted:

I finished Infinite Jest and ran full steam ahead into Gravity's Rainbow. I have way less of an idea of what's going on but am enjoying the prose way more.

https://www.ottosell.de/pynchon/rainbow.htm might help you figure out what's going on

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