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Vampire Panties posted:The previous SLA was 8 hours a year, and people still migrated to it in droves. There was a holdout of cranky telecom dudes who screamed about downtime, but here's a secret - nobody uses desk phones anymore unless its fundamentally part of their role (i.e. call center agents, assistants, receptionists, etc). Everyone uses chat or video. Back in 2009 I started asking new hires if they wanted a desk phone, or to forward a company number to their cell. In 2 more years there, nobody wanted a desk phone. At my current job, I was issued a desk phone in 2014. I changed roles and cubes in 2018 and never plugged the drat thing in again. It's been at least two years since anyone called that number.
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Mar 29, 2024 13:55
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Yeah the last place I worked was a manufacturing company and you can’t make widgets from home.
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Mar 29, 2024 13:57
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CloFan posted:Counterpoint: my org uses the desk phone and on prem pbx all day, every day. Mine too 
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Mar 29, 2024 13:59
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The only people in my experience who use deskphones are workers who don't have an office job, so their PC might be a shipping station in a warehouse that they sit at for maybe an hour each day, and C-levels who don't see why they should have to learn anything new and anyway headsets are what secretaries and call centre workers wear. Contact centres have been softphone-only forever, your standard office worker has a company mobile and any planned interaction with external parties happens in whatever meeting platform you use. Otherwise they just see a handset on their desk as a thing that takes up space and is used maybe once every two weeks. We're looking at Teams Phone Mobile but the lack of carrier options is limiting that a bit, nobody likes the idea of a single supplier as it makes them nervous at contract renewal time.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:04
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mllaneza posted:Back in 2009 I started asking new hires if they wanted a desk phone, or to forward a company number to their cell. In 2 more years there, nobody wanted a desk phone. At my current job, I was issued a desk phone in 2014. I changed roles and cubes in 2018 and never plugged the drat thing in again. It's been at least two years since anyone called that number. Lol my answer would have been "can I not have a phone?" In my previous job where I'd had the same number for 14 years I pretty much never used it for the past 10. I even went out of my way to essentially turn off my voicemail. If you called me, my message said to contact me another way and hung up on you.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:04
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Thanks Ants posted:C-levels who don't see why they should have to learn anything new and anyway headsets are what secretaries and call centre workers wear. I bet you they still have the POWAH BLUETOOT EARPIECE that flashes a little blue light when they are on a call walking down the street to show how important they are.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:12
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Cyks posted:Think I’d go back to retail first. Besides the fact that helpdesk pays better, there are lots of other reasons not to do retail instead, and they are major. 1. Retail usually doesn't provide benefits. Helpdesk usually does. This is an enormous deal. Health insurance is the most major one, but there's also dental, vision, PTO, the list goes on. Retail usually doesn't even give you sick leave. (Has this changed legislatively? I can't remember.) "Full time" employees do sometimes get benefits, but companies put enormous amounts of effort into making sure as few employees as possible are considered "full time." 2. Retail schedules are awful. Retail is notorious for scheduling employees for the upcoming week right before that week starts. You don't know when you're working, your hours tend to be all over the map, you don't even always know how many hours you're working. Your needs get exactly zero consideration from anyone. 3. Retail employees are expected to take an absolutely shocking amount of abuse -- from all sides. Employers abuse them. Customers abuse them. They get no respect or even basic courtesy from anyone. They are not trusted with anything professionally, either. The way we treat retail workers is a national disgrace. Do not go back to retail if you can avoid it. I have spent less than two years of my life in retail and I hope to never return.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:30
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guppy posted:Besides the fact that helpdesk pays better, there are lots of other reasons not to do retail instead, and they are major. to add to this - going from IT to retail makes it harder to go back to IT. Recruiters are the dumbest people on the planet, so regardless of explanation or situation they'll assume the failure is on you. I took a retail job after the dot-com collapse in '03, and nobody would give me the time of day. It took a combination of years, moving far away, and taking a really lovely job to get back into the fold. IMO its better to set up your own 'consultancy' and do gig stuff on the side.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:36
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Cyks posted:Think I’d go back to I keep my nursing license active as a "juuuuuuust in case".
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Mar 29, 2024 14:46
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FISHMANPET posted:Lol my answer would have been "can I not have a phone?" In my previous job where I'd had the same number for 14 years I pretty much never used it for the past 10. I even went out of my way to essentially turn off my voicemail. If you called me, my message said to contact me another way and hung up on you. I could and would have accommodated that.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:47
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guppy posted:Besides the fact that helpdesk pays better, there are lots of other reasons not to do retail instead, and they are major. This mirrors my thoughts pretty well. The only thing I miss about retail is having a random week day off but that doesn’t make up for the fact that you’re likely scheduled every weekend.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:57
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I couldn't handle being scheduled 2pm to 11pm and then 6am to 2pm the next day any more.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:59
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All this talk makes me immensely happy that I don't do any telephony work anymore. Eat poo poo CUCM.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:16
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My responsibility for VoIP stops at the switch port the drat things are plugged into. Thank gently caress.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:19
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One of the proudest moments in my career was when I realized I could just leave telephony off my resume.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:30
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Yeah I don't miss the days setting up a dozen Cisco phones in CUCM.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:30
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It's cool when you have the phone and the PC on different networks because they are outsourced and a different company is responsible for each, and then someone on site helpfully plugs the cable on the desk that once went into a laptop docking station into the PC port of the phone. We've been in that position as the phone company and while all our stuff kept working because DHCP snooping exists, couldn't say the same for the IT provider.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:32
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Or you have to go on site because folks can't figure out that it goes wall -> network port of phone and then pc port -> pc. And get super mad that poo poo doesn't work.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:34
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guppy posted:3. Retail employees are expected to take an absolutely shocking amount of abuse -- from all sides. Employers abuse them. Customers abuse them. They get no respect or even basic courtesy from anyone. They are not trusted with anything professionally, either. But also, do your part to try to turn the bad treatment around. Greet your cashier, say thank you to your bagger, and give floor staff the room they need when they're stocking up.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:39
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mllaneza posted:One of the proudest moments in my career was when I realized I could just leave telephony off my resume. my entire resume is telephony  and somehow I've worked with CUCM since the Windows NT days...  Although I pivoted right out of that into video conferencing back in the Tandberg days. Video conferencing / Pro A/V stays interesting because I can see the tangible results of my work, although users have some WILD expectations on uptime and usability
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Mar 29, 2024 16:14
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Video conferencing sucks butts. Last place we rolled out all Cisco conference rooms including cloud Webex, the whole nine yards.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:19
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My Section just absorbed a couple of Meeting and A/V people. They're cool, and now we get real-time updates on leftovers from big meetings.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:23
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The thing that I find most difficult to deal with about VoIP, and my involvement is only tangential, is that everyone has different ideas about what's "normal" behavior, so the expectations are never the same. Sometimes these differences are small, sometimes they're enormous, and whichever one they are, the users consider them very important. So you are aiming at a constantly moving target in terms of user satisfaction.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:24
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Well, I failed my SRE interview. 20+ years as a Unix SA apparently doesn't qualify me to understand systems, monitoring and the rest. My weakness? Understanding the software deployment life cycles and deployment models. Because as a unix SA I deal with that all the time. This is such bullshit, I'm so upset right now. Hopefully I don't lose my job. HR said that the interview interview has a 30 percent pass rate.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:34
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I'm sorry to hear that. From what you've described, I wouldn't take it as a reflection of yourself or your skills. Sounds like they want to just have an excuse for lowering pay, getting rid of folks, etc.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:50
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Vampire Panties posted:my entire resume is telephony I kind of miss that VC stuff, you could dial an IP and the two boxes would negotiate codecs and that was it. Now you build a room for Teams and it's better than a standards-based room could ever be at that task, but going outside of the ecosystem depends on each service being supported. Feels like a step backwards. Cimber posted:Well, I failed my SRE interview. 20+ years as a Unix SA apparently doesn't qualify me to understand systems, monitoring and the rest. I might have missed it, but why are they interviewing for internal roles? Surely people know more about your abilities by now that an interview is pointless.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:53
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Thanks Ants posted:I kind of miss that VC stuff, you could dial an IP and the two boxes would negotiate codecs and that was it. Now you build a room for Teams and it's better than a standards-based room could ever be at that task, but going outside of the ecosystem depends on each service being supported. Feels like a step backwards. They are reclassifying all us unix SAs as Site Reliability Engineers, and requiring us to interview for the job. The people interviewing me have never worked for me, they are the head of the company's new SRE management chain. I suspect they have sold SRE to upper management as an elite strikeforce of technology like we are navy seals or something.
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Mar 29, 2024 17:24
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guppy posted:The thing that I find most difficult to deal with about VoIP, and my involvement is only tangential, is that everyone has different ideas about what's "normal" behavior, so the expectations are never the same. Sometimes these differences are small, sometimes they're enormous, and whichever one they are, the users consider them very important. So you are aiming at a constantly moving target in terms of user satisfaction. Yeah this is my experience as well. Some user first used a Mitel phone 30 years ago and expects everything to work identically. I'd say nearly all features are replicated across all systems (even Teams Voice) but accessing them is very slightly different and for some reason people absolutely lose their minds. This also happens to some extent with things like Outlook and Word updates, but phone systems are somehow sacrosanct Thanks Ants posted:I kind of miss that VC stuff, you could dial an IP and the two boxes would negotiate codecs and that was it. Now you build a room for Teams and it's better than a standards-based room could ever be at that task, but going outside of the ecosystem depends on each service being supported. Feels like a step backwards. Standards-based was significantly easier and users liked it more, but it required a shitload of expertise to make all the moving parts work correctly. Teams Rooms  just work although to your point, right now its all siloed to hell. Moving everything to PCs, like Teams and Zoom, made it significantly cheaper but the overall experience sucks rear end. Troubleshooting is nearly nonexistent, and god help you if you need to call a Zoom meeting from a Teams room. Also videoconferencing used to be gently caress off expensive, because all of the heavy lifting was done on very expensive endpoints and MCUs with stacks and stacks of DSPs.With the current war between WFH and RTO, nobody wants to invest in high quality equipment, so there's this pervasive "good enough" attitude throughout the industry. Also wtf does it matter if your fancy conference room does 1080p60FPS with auto-sensing/auto-framing cameras when every meeting has a remote participant on a lovely webcam calling from their kitchen. Eventually AI chips will get cheap enough that hardware solutions will be able to offer enough compelling features to go back to dedicated devices, but right now it just sorta sucks.
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Mar 29, 2024 17:26
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Some people want their phones to work exactly like a key system and...no, you can't have that.
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Mar 29, 2024 17:49
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Cimber posted:They are reclassifying all us unix SAs as Site Reliability Engineers, and requiring us to interview for the job. The people interviewing me have never worked for me, they are the head of the company's new SRE management chain. I suspect they have sold SRE to upper management as an elite strikeforce of technology like we are navy seals or something. I'm sorry it didn't go better for you, but that is such a hosed up thing to do to your workforce that even if they said you were the best they ever interviewed and offered you a fat raise, I'd still say you should look for a new job.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:16
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Cimber posted:I want to have a life and not work 60+ hours a week. I've seen too many folks think they are getting up the management ladder only to hit a management ceiling of team lead, but be expected to always be available. Totally with you there. CloFan posted:Counterpoint: my org uses the desk phone and on prem pbx all day, every day. We moved off of on-prem to Teams an 8x8 during COVID. No regerts. Avaya can go lick an electrified razorwire fence. Their pricing was insane, and their software was utter garbage. Cimber posted:They are reclassifying all us unix SAs as Site Reliability Engineers, and requiring us to interview for the job. The people interviewing me have never worked for me, they are the head of the company's new SRE management chain. I suspect they have sold SRE to upper management as an elite strikeforce of technology like we are navy seals or something. So, hold on - you've done your job at least adequately for however long, but these jackholes come in and somehow prove you're incompetent for the job you've been doing? That is so incredibly Office Space - you know the scene. gently caress that noise. Zorak of Michigan posted:I'm sorry it didn't go better for you, but that is such a hosed up thing to do to your workforce that even if they said you were the best they ever interviewed and offered you a fat raise, I'd still say you should look for a new job. Seconded.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:31
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Zorak of Michigan posted:I'm sorry it didn't go better for you, but that is such a hosed up thing to do to your workforce that even if they said you were the best they ever interviewed and offered you a fat raise, I'd still say you should look for a new job. Thirded. you should even interview for SRE jobs if you can if only to rub it in their faces!
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Mar 29, 2024 20:32
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Cat Army
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Darchangel posted:We moved off of on-prem to Teams an 8x8 during COVID. No regerts. Same. We were already reconsidering our Avaya partnership at the end of 2019 because their roadmap looked appalling and they had decided that their  offering was to discontinue the average but working product hosted on Google Cloud and force everybody to move to RingCentral and pay partners a one-off rebate. I'm not a big 8x8 fan any more but in 2020 being able to move thousands of users to it and handle everything completed remotely probably made the difference between us just closing up shop and being able to keep going.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:38
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Darchangel posted:
Very much so. Outside guy, never dealt with him before, he's convinced upper managers that SRE! is the way to go, only he is capable of leading this concept within the firm. "So, what is it that you do here?" I got word that others in my team have also failed.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:41
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Does this outside guy perhaps have some people that he thinks would be simply perfect for membership of this SRE team that he is happy to put forward for a very reasonable referral fee?
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Mar 29, 2024 20:47
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Cimber posted:Well, I failed my SRE interview. 20+ years as a Unix SA apparently doesn't qualify me to understand systems, monitoring and the rest. What kind of questions did they even ask you?
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Mar 29, 2024 20:48
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Gucci Loafers posted:What kind of questions did they even ask you? Stuff about CI/CD, Blue/Green deployment models. (I didn't know what that was specifically, but I did basically describe it in other terms). I also think that I didn't do myself any favors when I said that CD to production might not be a great idea for us (I work for a large bank) while it might be fine for an internet startup.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:53
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GreenNight posted:Video conferencing sucks butts. Last place we rolled out all Cisco conference rooms including cloud Webex, the whole nine yards. I used to work in cisco’s hq in my country. They leased 50-70% of the building to other companies but all conf rooms had the entire webex system with auto focussing camera’s and what not. This was a few years before covid so back then it was pretty fancy. Cisco did the maintenance themselves and 90% of all conference setups were broken at any given time. And it’s not as if they weren’t repairing them at least weekly. Cimber posted:Stuff about CI/CD, Blue/Green deployment models. (I didn't know what that was specifically, but I did basically describe it in other terms). I also think that I didn't do myself any favors when I said that CD to production might not be a great idea for us (I work for a large bank) while it might be fine for an internet startup. CD works fine for banks. You don’t go from no automation to CD in a day though. poo poo takes time to build, test, improve and get buy in from all the idiots that don’t want to change their 1970’s way of working “because we always did it like this”. First do Continuous Delivery, then start looking on how to to Continuous Deployment. You’re probably right that this didn’t go well with Mr Rockstar SRE. He probably took that as you not being “SRE material” or not understanding SRE. The guy is an idiot for dumping you though. The amount of knowledge and historical context people with decades on the job have is not something you let go of if they’re doing a good job. Anyone can learn new concepts if they want to. Not everyone has a decent work ethic.
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Mar 29, 2024 21:26
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LochNessMonster posted:I used to work in cisco’s hq in my country. They leased 50-70% of the building to other companies but all conf rooms had the entire webex system with auto focussing camera’s and what not. This was a few years before covid so back then it was pretty fancy. I have inherent conservatism for releases due to working in finance for so many years. I'm not saying more rapid deployment isn't a good thing, it is. I just have to keep in mind the opportunity cost of rollbacks, which literally can go into six or seven digits a minute. [edit] Oh, and there are always the bank regulators, they make things fun too with releases. Cimber fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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At my last job, the networking group was going to hire an SRE, the first in the org. Someone that the director used to work with was interviewed, along with other candidates. Everyone on the interview panel recommended not hiring the guy the director knew. He got hired anyway. He immediately appointed himself the SRE of the entire IT org. Everyone that he tried to work with hated him. His performance was rewarded by being formally made the head of a new SRE team as part of a reorganization instigated by said director, a team which I was eventually assigned to. This chief SRE was so unfocused that he was never able to accomplish anything. He would sell you the world and then fail to deliver over and over, which pissed off more and more people. The team itself failed for years as well, because we could never figure out what larger goal we were working towards other than "rub some magic SRE on it". The director hired another person he used to work with, and his job was basically going to be to supervise this chief SRE because his reputation was so bad that it was starting to reflect poorly on the director (this new employee used to supervise this chief SRE so he knew how to handle him). Anyway before the chief SRE's reputation could be repaired, there was finally enough of a groundswell of displeasure that this chief SRE was moved to some new made up job, the SRE's manager was reassigned, and the guy hired to supervise the now former chief SRE became the new chief SRE. This new chief SRE seemed continually disinterested in anything, and he tried to relate everything back to some Java monitoring he did a decade previously. The "SRE" team morphed into a "monitoring" team in all but name, though even with a renewed focus it continued to flail around. I eventually got fired because I built a documentation tool that everybody loved and it got too popular and I think it made my new manager and that director look bad because they kept trying to kill it. Anyways, yeah, if someone comes with a bag of magic beans labelled "SRE" you need to run. Also if your leader is a silver tongued dipshit, that doesn't help either.
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