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It's funnier if Rory was older than the Doctor and the reason that they didn't see him for all that time between seasons was because the Doctor was annoyed and so did his own thing until he caught up again. So I'm deciding that's what happened.
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Mar 23, 2015 15:40
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Luckily, Big Finish is releasing a story in late 2015 that gives Six a proper send-off... As for this episode, this was the ultimate "turn off your brain and just enjoy it" story for me. I love the romanticized idea of pirates and ghost stories about the sea, so it was ticking all my mental checkboxes to the point where I easily and willingly overlooked its flaws, much like I did with the Ten/Martha story 42. And I refuse to dislike any story that gives us THIS shot.  (I tried to find a gif of Amy swordfighting, but my work connection is subpar at best)
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Mar 23, 2015 15:44
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I didn't have good memories of this episode, but yeah I have to love that not only did Amy grab a sword and come out to fight, but that she took the time out to find herself a rad pirate hat and coat. You gotta be stylin'.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:23
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I remember being in the minority for liking this one. The main thread almost all hated it. But it's just a feel good story. Plus almost anything with ridiculous stereotype pirates is going to be at least watchable (except Black Sails).
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Mar 23, 2015 19:49
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marktheando posted:
I think I wanted them to be more ridiculous stereotype pirates. It's been awhile since I saw it, though. I remember it being okay. Kind of an average episode.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:38
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qntm posted:When did this happen? Is the implication that One was only about 30-40 years old or something? That's neat. He was "only" 200-300 years old or thereabouts. The Second Doctor is the first to give his age and he was around 400-450 at the time, if I remember correctly. There is an episode where 10 talks about visiting someplace when he was young, and casually drops that he was around 80-90 years old at the time.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:02
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That's really the only thing this episode has to recommend it.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:49
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Giving the murderous pirates a space ship seemed like an odd choice. I guess the Doctor is all about second chances.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:52
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Pop-culture pirates are never murderous, of course. They're just freedom-loving. They're 17th century Doctors.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:58
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Lycus posted:Pop-culture pirates are never murderous, of course. They're just freedom-loving. They're 17th century Doctors. Countdown to Doctor What posting Gallifreyan Buccaneer......
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Mar 24, 2015 02:01
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Is doctor what dead? I haven't seen him post in the last 6 hours.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:17
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Is doctor what dead? I haven't seen him post in the last 6 hours. He may have fell and hit his head.
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Mar 24, 2015 10:35
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CobiWann posted:He may have fell and hit his head. 
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Mar 24, 2015 10:46
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It's ok, he'll be back with a new hat and a screaming hot companion.
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Mar 24, 2015 11:35
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CobiWann posted:He may have fell and hit his head. 
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Mar 24, 2015 15:57
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Doctor Who "The Curse of the Black Spot" Series 6, Episode 3 "The Curse of the Black Spot" is an episode that's almost there. A really fun and game cast, a fantastic premise, and brilliant setup leads one to naturally assume that "Curse" will be a great, memorable romp in the vein of episodes like "The Lodger" or "The Eleventh Hour". Not too heavy, nothing serious, but a really fun and breezy hour to spend curled up in front of the TV. Silly, funny, swashbuckling Who. Unfortunately, all that potential was really pissed away in "Curse"'s second half, leaving an incomplete-feeling episode that ends up being the second straight disappointment in a row for Series Six. It's not bad, heavens no- it's just so...lightweight, ends poorly enough that, although it's not some sort of offense against God, as a whole "Curse" feels imminently forgettable. The big issue that "Curse" has (its...curse, as it were) is that it's so wonderful for so long before all kind of falling apart. I mean it's a pirate story centered around a marooned ship, with a terrified crew picked off one-by-one by a mysterious ghostly muse! Which The Doctor and his pals then accidentally stumble upon! How could this episode not be fantastic? And yet, here we are, where "Curse" gets nothing but a slightly amused shrug. Its first half is great, able to set up the swords and eyepatches, swashbuckling motif that's integral to any pirate-themed media. Hugh Bonneville's portrayal of Henry Avery, the captain, is a particular standout- able to fold in the various layers of intimidating and commanding that a pirate captain would clearly need to be able to control a band of murderous thieves while still possessing a peculiar nobility that reflects his former standing as a naval officer. His interplay with Eleven, especially in the early going, is particularly wonderful- the fact that Captain Avery visibly bristles every single time that The Doctor steps on his toes when it comes to leadership and command of the vessel changes their dynamic into an antagonistic one, and it's fun watching The Doctor have to noticeably compete for attention with the captain for authority. In the first half, "Curse" is a well-conceived and executed machine, moving from scene to scene with a specific vim and verve that feels natural. The Siren is both a threatening antagonist and suitably otherworldly- helped in no small part by, well, Lily Cole's frankly bizarre facial features. Lily Cole, who I must note is a very beautiful woman, has this weird sort of uncanny valley look to her. She looks almost human but just a bit...well...off, so having her play a mythical creature that turns out to be an alien AI attempting to approximate the "look" of a human for its visual interface actually makes a ton of sense. Another really clever dimension of "Curse" is its decision to show an entirely different way that The Doctor arrives at solutions to problems. So often an episode of Doctor Who, especially an episode with The Eleventh Doctor, spends the majority of its runtime by showing The Doctor hanging back, holding his cards to his chest, until at or near the climax when he (usually via smug monologue) explains his entire master plan and what's been going on this whole time. Although that sort of syncopation to the episode makes sense and fits to Eleven's character- where he's essentially a smart liar who only says exactly what he needs to to maintain control -it gets a little tiresome as the audience has to wait until the 35 minute mark or so for Matt Smith to explain what the hell is actually going on and what he plans to do to stop it. In contrast, within "The Curse of the Black Spot" Eleven constantly spouts opinions, theories, and hypotheses about who or what The Siren is, what her powers are, and how he and the crew can stop it. He's very often proven wrong, but if anything that makes him more relatable and sympathetic; he might be a genius, but he's not a loving psychic and for once externalizing his thought process allows the audience to glimpse how Eleven solves problems. Having him winnow down possibilities until he arrives at a solution via constant testing and questioning of central premise is more reflective of the modern scientific process as opposed to Eleven's previous solution of quiet observation being more akin to narrative witchcraft. Finally, there's so many amazing and hilarious individualized scenes in the first half of the episode- Amy as a pirate and enchanted Rory being just two of them -that it's hard to think this would be anything other than an instant classic. But then the second half of the episode happens, and, well, yeah. Most-to-all of the problems with "Curse" lie in how it decides to end its various plots and subplots, because every solution it arrives to ends up being a poor one. The way Captain Avery's subplot ends is an entirely weak and flaccid solution to what was an interesting, complex character. Hugh Bonneville's amazing acting as Avery certainly elevated the role, but even so the writer for the episode ended up crafting a very complicated character, who was then dimensionalized further when Henry's son arrived in the episode. Which is what makes the end of his arc so bad- it was clearly obvious, once the episode took specific time to note how the captain looked at the crown, that he was going to keep it (and it was going to be revealed at an inopportune time that he had kept it), but the lingering question- why he was so obsessed with treasure -ended up being answered so pitifully poorly it colors Avery's entire arc negatively. On one hand, I can sort of respect the straightforwardness of the answer- the fact that it turned out to simply be base greed is a "Sometimes a banana is just a banana" of literary devices, where the most surprising solution is the least symbolic or most obvious one. I sort of respected that they didn't couch the answer within a dime-store analogy, but the specific way the reveal was shown made the solution seem, instead of pleasingly, cleverly simple, like the writer had simply run out of time and chose the most obvious answer to a narrative problem he had set up. The pacing of Avery's plot as a whole just doesn't work because not enough time is spent on it, so his subplot turns into, essentially, "Exposition-exposition-reveal". It made the final rain scene weaker because it comes so immediately after a couple of scenes blatantly explaining his backstory with not enough time organically building his character (although what little we do get is great), so as a whole Avery's arc throughout the episode seems like a wet fart to end what could have been a very promising single-episode character. More's the pity, too, because the scene in the rain between Eleven and Avery is genuinely great- it just sucks that it was built around a concept as inherently uninteresting as "Avery kept the crown (and subsequently endangered his kid) because he's, like, REALLY greedy." More importantly is how poorly the main plot is handled. Even beyond that comically ridiculous ending the A-story for "Curse" is full of missteps. Very early on they establish The Siren's immense, impossible power and then, just as quickly, kneecap it- there's things like her enchanting song that, in the very first scene of the episode, makes The Siren seem completely unstoppable- if you get injured, "Curse" posits, you are dead, because then The Siren's song will get you and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop you. But once Rory gets cut, the episode immediately backs off the narrative stakes of the song so Rory can stay within the episode for the majority of "Curse"'s duration- her lure becomes essentially a minor inconvenience played for laughs over any real threat to the episode at large, which turns The Siren from this mysterious, threatening, terrifying ghost lady that can appear anywhere and turn you into dust into a Scooby Doo villain ineffectually chasing down our heroes. Plus there's just weird mechanical and plot problems the episode has, that just illustrates a complete lack of care in the script. Like at one point, a character (who was important enough for the episode to establish him as a minor threat) straight up disappears. And not, like, "turned into dust offscreen by The Siren", I mean he literally stops existing in a way that doesn't make any loving sense to the narrative being told. It's just sloppy, slipshod storytelling where a character just straight-up vanishes from the episode with no explanation- especially when the gimmick of the episode is an antagonist that vanishes people. But all this pales in comparison to the climax of the episode, which is some gold-plated horseshit. Although I can appreciate the concept of The Siren turning out to be a medic, the problem is having the monster of an episode be a robotic AI trying to heal the protagonists means that this episode, automatically, invites comparison to "The Doctor Dances" (and I have to say that, in my opinion, the antagonist really does feel like a carbon copy of the 'enemies' from that episode but now a pretty lady), which it in no way measures up to. In addition, the concept of the antagonist being revealed to be a mechanical creature attempting to function on a derelict, abandoned ship also brings to mind strong comparisons to "The Girl in the Fireplace", another episode "The Curse of the Black Spot" seems woefully inadequate standing next to. But even beyond its obvious "inspirations"/blatant copying, the way, structurally, mechanically, narratively the climax is resolved is...well...it's loving stupid as poo poo. The mere fact that the episode's main plot ends with Amy having to "take ownership" of Rory's body from The Siren by, I poo poo you not, signing digital forms might be the single dumbest loving resolution to any narrative this show has had. Seriously, Doctor Who? The episode ends with alien hospital administration? This is how you decide to end your narrative? By having The Doctor and Amy go through medical bureaucracy with a mythical lady from legend who also happens to be a sentient AI on an alien ship who can inexplicably shoot fire from her hands? Why didn't you show The Doctor and Amy waiting for two hours in Space Intake, reading a two-year-old copy of Space Time magazine as muted Alien Jerry Springer played on a tv mounted above them? Why stop at signing forms, Doctor Who, I really wanted to see the whole process behind the nitty gritty of hospital administration. It's just such a bizarre, and bizarrely bad, ending to an episode that I can't help but look back on the whole thing and go "That sure was nice, but it sure was loving stupid as hell." Which, I guess, is a category of Doctor Who all to itself. What a waste of such a cool premise, though. Grade: B Random Thoughts:
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Mar 24, 2015 20:21
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I don't think the ending is thatdeplorable, but I do agree that it really isn't in the yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum spirit that fills the rest of the episode, and that it's not bad, but does feel imminently forgettable.
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Mar 24, 2015 20:34
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I actually did forget it. I have no memory of that stuff about hospital forms at all.
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Mar 24, 2015 20:36
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Now that I read the review, I remember it, but I'd completely forgotten about that. But yeah, it kind of suffers from having things that are a bit too similar to some really good episodes. It does better when it does different stuff I think.
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Mar 24, 2015 21:29
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Toxxupation posted:Plus there's just weird mechanical and plot problems the episode has, that just illustrates a complete lack of care in the script. Like at one point, a character (who was important enough for the episode to establish him as a minor threat) straight up disappears. And not, like, "turned into dust offscreen by The Siren", I mean he literally stops existing in a way that doesn't make any loving sense to the narrative being told. It's just sloppy, slipshod storytelling where a character just straight-up vanishes from the episode with no explanation- especially when the gimmick of the episode is an antagonist that vanishes people. I don't usually give too much of a care about plot in tv shows and movies, since a good visual motif and soundwork can and will mean way more to me, but this was way to egregious, even for me. I'm assuming a scene where he was taken was just cut, I mean you can't just forget a character and have no one else who reviews the script not notice, right?
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Mar 24, 2015 23:30
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forbidden lesbian posted:I don't usually give too much of a care about plot in tv shows and movies, since a good visual motif and soundwork can and will mean way more to me, but this was way to egregious, even for me. I'm assuming a scene where he was taken was just cut, I mean you can't just forget a character and have no one else who reviews the script not notice, right? At the very least the actor might ask questions. "So I was menacing this kid. And then I just kinda don't show up again?" I still say the kid ate him.
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Mar 24, 2015 23:39
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Dammit, why do you have to learn moderation in your scoring the ONE season I give only As and Fs! Fer Crissake! 
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Mar 24, 2015 23:55
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as I wait for bb to finish downloading I feel like I should let you all know that bloodborne is pretty loving cool, guys
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Mar 25, 2015 00:04
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jng2058 posted:Dammit, why do you have to learn moderation in your scoring the ONE season I give only As and Fs! Fer Crissake! Huh so it's not just me then
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Mar 25, 2015 02:34
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I wanted to love this episode so much. I mean... pirates! Doctor Who pirates! And spaceships! But the second half really does drag the whole thing down. I probably pitched my grade guess a bit too low based on that, but the whole thing just left me feeling annoyed and somehow cheated. I actually left it out when I rewatched this season. Also, to hell with Bloodborne, this week is going to be all about PIllars of Eternity.
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Mar 25, 2015 02:48
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More than anything, the decision to give the pirates the spaceship at the end was a pretty  move. Sure most of the crew were trapped there (I forget the exact details, to be honest) and it was kind of inevitable, but these guys are either going to cause all manner of troubles or die horribly out there because they sure as poo poo don't know anything about flying a ship through space.
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Mar 25, 2015 03:14
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Jerusalem posted:More than anything, the decision to give the pirates the spaceship at the end was a pretty Maybe they'll find a doctor that can actually cure their various ailments, rather than just keep them suspended on the edge of death for all eternity. Kid had tuberculosis or something? Should be easy enough to fix if they can find an advanced human civilization. Wait, it's not a time machine is it? So there won't be many humans in space for them to find. Not for hundreds of years. Sorry, kid.
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Mar 25, 2015 03:20
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Doctor Who "The Curse of the Black Spot" Series 6, Episode 3 It's Doctor Who! With pirates! And somehow botches that concept! Boo! Boooo! "The Curse of the Black Spot" is an episode that wears its influences on its sleeve. As Occ pointed out, it cribs heavily from both "The Doctor Dances" and "The Girl in the Fireplace," and one of the musical stings early on sounds as though it was ripped directly from Pirates of the Caribbean. Despite drawing so heavily from prior Moffat scripts, the writer for this one is Who first-timer Stephen Thompson - who would later go on to collaborate directly with Moffat for a future episode, so either ol' Steve was just flinging ideas from his old toybox at Thompson's head during the draft meetings for this one or it's just a coincidence that we have an awkward combo of two prior Moffat episodes, plus pirates. It's the "plus pirates" part that's the real shame, because what should have been the central conceit of this episode is backburnered with relative haste, and everyone suffers for it. Series 6, as some people might have noticed, is the first season of the revival to break the usual three-episode combo of "intro, future episode, past episode." The "Astronaut" two-parter threw off our rhythm, but we still get back a half-beat with this past-set pirate party, which even goes the extra mile of reusing the old Davies-era wrinkle of a supposedly mythical beast that actually turns out to be some variety of alien with a suspicious degree of resemblance to the myth. In some ways it's a nice change of pace from the dour tone of "Impossible Astronaut" or the frantic tempo of "Day of the Moon." The stakes are quite low by the standards of Who - sure, our heroes are in mortal peril like always, but the danger is limited to a single marooned ship in the middle of the ocean, rather than all of England or the world or the abstract concept of time itself. The Doctor's sonic jiggery-pokery is limited to just locking and unlocking doors for a chance, since pirate ships are notoriously low-tech and made of wood. Amy stabs a guy. A child stabs another guy. There are magnificent beards everywhere. It's all good fun. But cracks present themselves from the word go and only get wider as the episode progresses. The Siren, played by actual singer Lily Cole (who, with all respect to the woman, has a rather disconcerting face - seriously, it's the face of someone half her age and exclusively occupies the lower half of her head), isn't a terribly threatening or compelling antagonist even before we learn that she's a rather dim bureaucratic AI that's thwarted by a closed wooden door. It sings, making people act goofy, and then it touches someone and they explode. If you get her really angry she might glow red like a cut-rate video game baddie and advance on you menacingly before you close a door in her face. It's sort of a limited repertoire! She might be one of the weakest baddies yet introduced, right up there with the self-destructive bat aliens from "School Reunion." She's more of a puzzle to solve, but not a terribly interesting one, even as the Doctor gradually builds his hypothesis as to how she's teleport-murdering everyone. Occ thought it was neat how we actually got to see the Doctor's problem-solving process in this one, rather than him just keeping all the pertinent facts under his fez until the opportunity for a big climactic speech came along, but Eleven's behavior in this one rubbed me the wrong way - and that hardly ever happens to me, the only other time I think I had that impression was from Tennant's incredibly stiff, rote performance in the wall-to-wall execrable "Planet of the Dead." Eleven's always the type to keep up a jokey veneer in the worst of times, but here he seems almost too glib, and too cavalier of the risks in front of him. He sees a guy explode into ash right in front of his face and acts as though someone just handed him an especially large cupcake at a party, and yes, to be fair, those guys were trying to kill him a moment ago, but he didn't seem terribly bothered by that either. Eleven is always a bit spacey, but here he comes off as an almost Magoo-like figure, blundering from one danger to the next until the plot resolves itself around him. Still cracks off some great one-liners, though. His half-hearted but persistent needling of Captain Avery's greed buoys us through many a tiresome expository scene. Avery himself is played with verve by Hugh Bonneville, but he and his crew suffer as side characters from what eventually becomes the episode's central fault - namely, that there are two completely different stories here and they don't mesh at all. Much like the Siren's derelict ship is occupying the same space as Avery's boat, there's a perfectly functional marooned-pirate story here, full of drama and swashbuckling and PG-rated quantities of rum, occupying the same space as a Moffat-esque "ancient technology run amok" horror tale, and the latter is both less interesting and completely supplants the former by the episode's halfway point. Moffat himself is an old hand at seamlessly bringing together two disparate genres; we saw how "The Girl in the Fireplace" bounced between the groaning cannibalized Madame du Pompadour and pre-revolutionary France without missing a beat, joined together by the character of Reinette, the contrasting opulence and decay of the two settings, and the persistent theme of "the slow path," which emphasized just how distant the Doctor's world was from Reinette's own and by extension all of humanity's. The sci-fi trappings in "Curse of the Black Spot," on the other hand, don't serve the piratical aspects at all, merely giving us a change of scenery to resolve the conflict with the Siren and an explanation as to where all those exploded dudes went. It culminates, as Occ noted with no small amount of derision, in the "consent form" scene. I don't mind the scene in itself, since it fully defangs the Siren into the confused bureaucratic AI that it truly is, but it's so far removed from what we were promised that it turns farcical - we went from a windswept ship, the Doctor walking the plank, and Amy handling a cutlass like a pro to a po-faced blue woman asking Amy to fill out some space paperwork. It's too big a shift, and Captain Avery and his crew have no place in where the episode ends up, which may be why their resolutions were so token and that one bloke flat-out disappears into the ether with no comment from anyone involved. A lot of the cuts and camerawork in this episode are weirdly sloppy, in fact. The Amazing Disappearing Pirate is the worst of the lot, but you also have a shot of the Siren swooping through the rigging that appears to be used twice within two minutes, the way the camera abruptly cuts away from half the Siren's victims to save on CGI, and the slightly drunk camera that struggles to find an interesting angle in the cramped confined of the ship. Between the less-than-optimal technical aspects, the incongruous conceits, and the earnest, weirdly endearing ineptitude of it all, "The Curse of the Black Spot" feels like a refugee from the Davies era - and while there are worse things to be, I'm in no hurry to revisit that time within the foreseeable future. Oh, and then there's Rory. He died, again. Let's see what Occ had to say during that CPR scene, shall we. quote:Occupation: wait Haha, that Rory, what a card. Seriously, though, even if we overlook the (hilarious) fact that Rory dying has now become a running theme in Who, this is by far his dumbest death yet - CPR, as I stated in my writeup for "Smith and Jones," probably DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY, and Rory tells Amy that she should be the one to revive him because she'll never give up...followed by her giving up, and Rory coming back anyway, maybe so as to not hurt her self-esteem. Amy's breakdown during his apparent expiration is well-acted, but the whole sequence leaves you wondering about the point of it all, and that goes for "The Curse of the Black Spot" as a whole - flawed, inconsequential fluff that was fun in the moment, but could have been so much better. If I were rating it, I'd give it two stARRRRGHs out of five. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 04:12
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Burkion posted:At the very least the actor might ask questions. There had to be a scene cut for time there Its the only way it makes sense, even if its dumb that they removed it
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Mar 25, 2015 09:10
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I literally could not remember a single detail about this episode, even after reading the write-ups. I know I watched it, and I recall there being pirates and a sailing ship and some sort of alien who disappeared people if they got hurt... but that was it. I even thought the guy who plays Sir Davos in Game of Thrones was the pirate captain, but nope. It was utterly forgettable. As a footnote, it didn't just swipe ideas from other, better episodes of modern Who; the concept of an alien spaceship being hidden in the same physical position as an earthly location but on a different dimensional plane came from The Stones of Blood. (Which also ended with Space Bureaucracy, in that case legal rather than medical.)
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Mar 25, 2015 12:11
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McDragon posted:Now that I read the review, I remember it, but I'd completely forgotten about that. Moffat does have a habit of recycling his old ideas. I don't know who wrote this one, but the Moff was in charge.
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Mar 25, 2015 16:37
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It's written by Stephen Thompson, who also writes a few future episodes (and some of Sherlock). I could have sworn this one was Gatiss for some reason. I think I'd blame the conglomerate Who plot nature of it more on this being his first time writing for the show and having an experience mostly with theater.
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Mar 25, 2015 16:48
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I have to agree with most of you about this episode being mostly forgettable, aside from the properly alien looking AI.
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Mar 25, 2015 16:56
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This episode is actually one of my favorites. I consider it a go-to episode for introducing people to the series, but not as good as a later episode which I love even more. If it weren't for eyepatch lady and the whole Rory dying again bit, because the former is a little weird for somebody new to the show and the latter completely loses its proper impact without Season 5. But, Pirates + weird mythological creature actually being an alien + yelling and running makes for a great introduction as to what to expect of Doctor Who, especially if they go back to season 1 and start there. It shows that the show improves over time, the Doctor is still very much the same despite being a different actor, and not everything he does ties into some larger, extravagant plot that they need to understand. Sometimes pirate conflict is just pirate conflict
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Mar 26, 2015 01:30
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Woop: http://www.avclub.com/article/veeps-armando-iannucci-might-write-doctor-who-217093
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Mar 26, 2015 01:42
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Just the idea of Iannucci writing for Capaldi again puts a huge smile on my face. I hope he makes him run around in an angry panic at least once.
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Mar 26, 2015 01:57
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Always a good time to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu6jO_cxiqQ
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Mar 26, 2015 02:05
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I didn't remember much about this episode, other than that it was fairly average, and I forgot that it ended with a CPR scene. I hate CPR scenes. They always play out the exact same way and they're always awful. The fact that the medical machines were keeping Rory alive and calm while he apparently still had lungs full of water was kind of funny, though. I do love the alien bogies scene, though. The way the Doctor just casually wipes his hand on Amy as he walks by was one of the only things about this episode that stuck in my mind, and it still made me laugh when I rewatched it.
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Mar 26, 2015 07:20
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Toxxupation posted:Woop: http://www.avclub.com/article/veeps-armando-iannucci-might-write-doctor-who-217093 Yeah, but on the other hand, this does happen a lot. Stephen Fry was supposed to write one for like, two or three series. Although granted how dire his previous work on time traveling adventure is, that's probably for the best.
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Mar 26, 2015 07:49
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 01:51 |
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Is it Gaiman times yet?
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Mar 26, 2015 08:23
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