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Oxxidation posted:I've always felt that the best Companions are contradictory forces, ones whose personalities act against the Doctor, not for him I don't think they necessarily need to be contradictory, but I feel the best companions are the ones who ground him in reality and the everyday. Whether that comes through arguments (Tegan  ) or just offering the human "moral" perspective (Ian and Barbara as his first companions), they keep the Doctor from losing touch with the linear, short-lived and often petty lives of the average human being.With Rose in season 2, whether it was intentional or just a side-effect of the story RTD was trying to tell, she basically became the worst kind of companion - one who embraces the Doctor's lifestyle so firmly that the two of them lost touch with any sense of the actual consequences of their actions. We see it most clearly in Tooth and Claw when they're joking and laughing about a situation that has seen many people horribly murdered (and even at the end of that story after Queen Victoria rips them a new one they end up turning it into a joke), but it's also there in scenes like Jackie warning Rose about where her life is leading her, or even in Mickey's bitter little rants about her panting after the Doctor. Intentional or not, Rose is basically a case study in the dangers of traveling with the Doctor, and why ultimately while he might have had a blast traveling with her she was as bad for him as he was for her. It's interesting to see how future companions and their relationships with the Doctor can be compared to this one, though again that may not have been the intent RTD had at all (many would argue it was the exact opposite).
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Sep 7, 2014 23:31
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Rose is kind of exceptional, as her narratives are to the effect of, "life was dull, and I was disappointed at how nothing of note ever happened and I might live a life unfulfilled. And then the Doctor appeared, and with him he brought explosions and racist killing machines and, at long last, lots of chances to die or live dangerously." Apparently, life in London at the height of the Iraq War was 'boring' until the Doctor showed her monsters and murderous aliens. And even then, most people were willing to suspend disbelief for the purposes of the story until they added a, "and boy does that stuff turn me on!" at which point a collective head scratching began and some fans started liking the character a lot less. As for my own ideal qualities of a companion, I'll talk about that when we move forward a few episodes.
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Sep 8, 2014 03:09
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Craptacular! posted:Apparently, life in London at the height of the Iraq War was 'boring' until the Doctor showed her monsters and murderous aliens. What does the Iraq war have to do with anything
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Sep 8, 2014 04:38
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Tempo 119 posted:What does the Iraq war have to do with anything Nothing much, it was just a really contentious time (or at least seemed as much on the news from the other side of the world)
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Sep 8, 2014 04:39
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There were some protests but that hardly implies everyone living in London had interesting lives
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Sep 8, 2014 04:48
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Forget it. I was just trying to emphasize that there was sort of a weird death seeker element to the whole thing, but it also makes sense given that Rose-era Who had a lot of villains hiding in plain sight on present day Earth. So you could perhaps say that things were more interesting than they appeared on the surface. Especially when you're one of those people so thick that you don't notice the massive spaceships crashing and blowing up on a semi-regular basis during RTD's run. 
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Sep 8, 2014 05:44
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I hope you two like this 'runaway bride' and such next episode.
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Sep 8, 2014 06:13
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There were some protests but that hardly implies everyone living in London had interesting lives  at the implication there was ever anything interesting on that daft island.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:18
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First Bass posted:
Hey, at least there was Doctor Wh-oh, wait.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:22
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Rarity posted:So yeah. Doomsday. I can't stand this episode. The problem is that it starts off so good. The Dalek/Cybermen burn session is amazing, there's great scenes for Rose's supporting cast and then a bunch more Daleks turn up and things really kick off. And then just as everything's building up to an epic climax... it ends. And the solution to the biggest conflict we've seen in Rusty's era is really as simple as 'press a button'. MikeJF posted:The thing that I disliked about this episode was the whole AND NOW WE UNLEASH A BILLION GADZILLION DALEKS followed by AND NOW WE VACUUM UP A BILLION GADZILLION DALEKS. Throwing numbers at us somehow made the threat seemed less, because now we knew we needed a Deus Ex Machina to get out of it and we were going to magic it up. And this episode is even worse in hindsight since we see that Torchwood could actually have been good but absolutely wasn't.
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Sep 8, 2014 11:20
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My favourite part of this episode is that they just ran Bad Wolf through Google translate when they came up with Dårlig Ulv stranden. Dårlig is indeed a Scandinavian word for bad, but it's the derogatory kind, so in effect if you translated it back to English it'd come out closer to something like lovely Wolf.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:18
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Hakkesshu posted:My favourite part of this episode is that they just ran Bad Wolf through Google translate when they came up with Dårlig Ulv stranden. Dårlig is indeed a Scandinavian word for bad, but it's the derogatory kind, so in effect if you translated it back to English it'd come out closer to something like lovely Wolf. Shockingly appropriate.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:19
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Hakkesshu posted:My favourite part of this episode is that they just ran Bad Wolf through Google translate when they came up with DÃ¥rlig Ulv stranden. DÃ¥rlig is indeed a Scandinavian word for bad, but it's the derogatory kind, so in effect if you translated it back to English it'd come out closer to something like lovely Wolf. Well, I bet he liked that it sounds a bit like 'Dalek'. I thought Rose was ok, but it was definitely the right time for her to leave.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:44
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Grouchio posted:I hope you two like this 'runaway bride' and such next episode. Oh my God it is really not hard to not talk about spoilers. Do not post in this thread if you can't not mention anything that happens in the future. --Annakie Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 16:08
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Do not talk about upcoming episodes, PLEASE THANK YOU. edit: that includes an unspoken request for the putz above me to edit out his post Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 16:11
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And we're good!
Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 18:50
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You're not the boss of your thread 
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Sep 8, 2014 18:51
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AA is for Quitters posted:
All we know from the last episode is that there is an angry looking woman in a wedding dress. We don't know her name, if she is/was/will be anything in the show. We do not know why they're in the tardis. I've moderated other forums with clean runs through media and our rule was anything not implicitly stated in the show is spoilers and not kosher. If you can't wait to discuss character X/ episode Y and are unable to restrain yourself while in this thread, why not stop posting until occ/oxx gets there?
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Sep 8, 2014 18:53
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Illuen posted:All we know from the last episode is that there is an angry looking woman in a wedding dress. We don't know her name To be fair, Occ posted her name in his review. I was actually wondering how he knew that.
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Sep 8, 2014 18:57
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thexerox123 posted:To be fair, Occ posted her name in his review. I was actually wondering how he knew that. He asked me and I told him because otherwise we'd have to call her "The Bride" and that creates uncomfortable Kill Bill/Doctor Who matchups.
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Sep 8, 2014 18:59
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Some people really really hate and despise Rose, which totally escapes my understanding. I don't like the implied romance between her and the Doctor but I don't mind that she seems to be sort of bubbly and enjoy her adventures with the Doctor. His companions tend to sort of give him what he needs at the time and I think Nine needed someone who enjoyed the beauty of the Universe to re-teach the Doctor that and break him of his war weary gloominess. She also does a decent job of establishing that she has a family and a life outside of the Doctor, which is something almost totally absent from the show before the revival. Granted, she kind of chooses the Doctor over that life more and more until it becomes unimportant, but I think that's the Doctor's lesson with Rose, is that he needs a friend and not a weird combination of girlfriend and student. She's not the best companion by any means, not even in the revival, not even with David Tennant, but she's certainly not the worst.
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Sep 8, 2014 19:04
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I prefer capable companions for the Doctor. Rose was incapable/worse than useless far too often. Every subsequent companion has at least cleared that bar of being basically capable.
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Sep 8, 2014 19:17
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I don't know that I'd call Rose incapable or useless most of the time, even if you exclude that one time they gave her God powers at the end of the first season (which probably you should because what the heck?).
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Sep 8, 2014 19:20
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Can't explain my problems with Rose without bringing up spoilers so it will suffice to say I place all of the blame of my Rose hatred on the behind the scenes people, not Piper.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:08
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Piper's shown pretty conclusively that she can be entertaining as anything when she's allowed to goof off a little. Her Cassandra impersonation and her little comedy routine in Idiot's Lantern were the high points of both episodes. But most of the time she's forced to hang around the Doctor's elbow going "cor blimey" at everything and then breaking down in tears whenever they're separated.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:12
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Oxxidation posted:He asked me and I told him because otherwise we'd have to call her "The Bride" and that creates uncomfortable Kill Bill/Doctor Who matchups. The Doctor's all like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOy6hqzfsAs when the Bride appears
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Sep 8, 2014 20:18
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The Doctor's all like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOy6hqzfsAs I can totally see a dramatic zoom into Jon Pertwee's eyes accompanied by this.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:19
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Oxxidation posted:Piper's shown pretty conclusively that she can be entertaining as anything when she's allowed to goof off a little. Her Cassandra impersonation and her little comedy routine in Idiot's Lantern were the high points of both episodes. But most of the time she's forced to hang around the Doctor's elbow going "cor blimey" at everything and then breaking down in tears whenever they're separated. They definitely do spend too much time having her be sad that the Doctor isn't in the room or taking each and every moment as if it were the most important thing that ever happened, I'll agree to that. That she emulates the Doctor and wants to have fun is fine, but Billie Piper would have had more to go on if her character's way of having fun was through trickery and pretending to be somebody she isn't. Being kind of a dick to people and enjoying it is when her acting really shines, in my opinion.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:25
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Bicyclops posted:I don't know that I'd call Rose incapable or useless most of the time, even if you exclude that one time they gave her God powers at the end of the first season (which probably you should because what the heck?). It's not that Rose was incapable or useless. It's that she was very clearly RTD's big old author pet he keeps trying to insist that she's "super-duper speshul you guys!" when really she's just completely average.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:25
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Captain Fargle posted:It's not that Rose was incapable or useless. It's that she was very clearly RTD's big old author pet he keeps trying to insist that she's "super-duper speshul you guys!" when really she's just completely average. This is a complaint I have about a lot of companions in the revival, to be honest, although Rose is a pretty archetypal example, definitely.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:31
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Captain Fargle posted:It's not that Rose was incapable or useless. It's that she was very clearly RTD's big old author pet he keeps trying to insist that she's "super-duper speshul you guys!" when really she's just completely average. This is only true some of the time. Other times, the Doctor is the author's pet, and Rose is demonstrating his greatness by word or deed. This is really when she's at her most insufferable, when she's just puppy-dogging for the Doctor, as in Parting of the Ways. Her best moments as a character, by contrast, are when the writer isn't overly enthralled with either of them.
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Sep 8, 2014 21:11
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My big problem with rose is I think that love stories with the doctor are universally terrible and boring, and rose's was the most terrible and most boring, but they're all really bad. It's hard to give examples without spoilers, but suffice it to say that if you've seen the series you can think of eras where the companions were not interested in having sex with the doctor and they were better, and eras where they were and they were worse.
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Sep 8, 2014 22:20
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I remember watching "Dalek" for the first time, and commenting to a friend who kind of hooked me into the show that it felt like the author had to resort to some Poochie-level bullshit when Rose essentially tames a Dalek, causes it to question it's own purpose for existing, and then it obliterates itself even after a small army and Van Staten's alien weapon collection was basically useless. All because it came into contact with her unique special snowflake and it's heart grew too many sizes as a result. Then again, between that episode and Parting Of The Ways she seems to have quite an impressive record VS Daleks.
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Sep 9, 2014 00:34
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Craptacular! posted:I remember watching "Dalek" for the first time, and commenting to a friend who kind of hooked me into the show that it felt like the author had to resort to some Poochie-level bullshit when Rose essentially tames a Dalek, causes it to question it's own purpose for existing, and then it obliterates itself even after a small army and Van Staten's alien weapon collection was basically useless. All because it came into contact with her unique special snowflake and it's heart grew too many sizes as a result. l lis l i s t e n t o J u b i l e e . . . NO OCCUPATION DON'T HURT ME NOOOO
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Sep 9, 2014 00:46
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Clearly, as gold is the Cybermen's weakness, the Dalek's weakness is young British women. 
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Sep 9, 2014 00:48
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Spatula City posted:Clearly, as gold is the Cybermen's weakness, the Dalek's weakness is young British women. Young women and middle-aged history professors. l i s t e n t o j u b i l e e
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Sep 9, 2014 01:02
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DoctorWhat posted:Young women and middle-aged history professors. Are you roleplaying now? What is this poo poo?
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Sep 9, 2014 01:04
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DoctorWhat posted:l
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Sep 9, 2014 01:04
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ṭ̩̤̹͎̱͈h̬̗̳e̡͎ ̴̜̫̘̼c҉̖̝o͚̰a̴t̶̜͈ ì̝͙͚͘s̼͓͔̯̳͔̗̙ ̷̷̝̹̱̼̻̟͕̠͖t̵͍͉͘a̴̗̫͎̤̞̼̗̟k̛̺̞̲͓i̝̣̣n̵͔̤̲͟ǵ̭̺̦͚͘ h̷̴͖͎̰͍͎̳͔̼̯͎͓̀͂̍́̔̓ͩ́̏͒́͢i̗̺̞̯̙̠̬̱̭̇̒ͥ͒̋̅ͥͩͧ̉̄ͮ͑̃͆͌͂͂̀̀͞ͅs̵͇͎̗͔͉̥̠̪̜̺͈̎͋ͥ̅̄̓̑ͭ̐͒ͤ̃ͨ͗̈ͪ̚̕͘ ̶̱̯͖͓͙̗̲̳̈͋̒̌ͩ͗̃̽͌ͤ̂̇̀͘͜͞ͅmͫ̀̉̽ͫ͑͗́̔̈͊͞͏̜̤̝̳̫̠͕̰̱̤͢į̵̛ͣ̐ͪͬ̒҉̨̻͚̠̣͍̹̜̘n̵͖̟̙̹̣̮͍̮̺̅̽̓͛ͩͪͤ̽̈́ͯ̋̚ͅd̵̟̯͉̼̙̦̜̲̻̺̩͙̟͓̭͔̳ͭ͒̀̆̆̉͐ͬ͠ͅͅ
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Sep 9, 2014 01:07
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Craptacular! posted:I remember watching "Dalek" for the first time, and commenting to a friend who kind of hooked me into the show that it felt like the author had to resort to some Poochie-level bullshit when Rose essentially tames a Dalek, causes it to question it's own purpose for existing, and then it obliterates itself even after a small army and Van Staten's alien weapon collection was basically useless. All because it came into contact with her unique special snowflake and it's heart grew too many sizes as a result. The idea was that it was "infected" by humanity, which basically meant it got to feel and experience things that a Dalek normally wouldn't. That it was Rose was mostly irrelevant, the Dalek's worldview was expanded and it HATED that, because it ran counter to everything it understood/was allowed to understand about what it should be. I say mostly irrelevant since Rose's reactions to it and her attempts to "help" it added to its confusion whereas any of the other characters present in the story would have probably reacted hostilely to it, and the Dalek would have just killed them. The fact it was her IS important in regards to the Doctor though. His own hatred and fear of the Dalek mirrors the Dalek's own attitudes ("you would make a good Dalek" etc), because he understands the feelings and emotions awakened by encountering the Dalek, but needs her help to face up to them. Edit: There's nothing remarkable or "special" about Rose and I feel like that is kind of the point - Rose is "just" a generic 21st century Londoner, but that "simple" humanity and her moral worldview are important for grounding the Doctor and providing him with a moral perspective it would be far too easy to lose given the nonsensically high stakes he often deals with. Which is why Rose in season 2 is so interesting to me, because she stops being that grounding influence and actively encourages the Doctor that they're special and that their experiences and good time trump all else (as in Tooth and Claw, or her chiding Elton while he's being chased by a monster in Love & Monsters). Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 01:16
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