|
Rocco posted:I see a lot of complaining in this thread over a season of a show that legitimately just loving started It's actually more complaining about a season that never happened. I mean, I really liked the premiere, the losing a cool character off-camera kinda blows.
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 10:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 16:29 |
|
|
I could never be a critic or a reviewer professionally. I'm the kind of person who doesn't get bored with slow television, treading over old ground, or characters that don't learn lessons. So when the flashbacks show Nucky's terrible childhood I don't get disgruntled that it's not showing anything we didn't know (other than that he had a sister). I don't need shows to always have ZAP! POW! BANG! revelations all the time like Lost did. I'm entertained by seeing the story we already know fleshed out. Maybe it's owing to the emotional-boner I get from Steve Buscemi, but I also like Nucky as a character. He's found a certain way of living that he's never going to give up even when circumstance, the people who love/hate him, and happenstance want him to live otherwise. He's intelligent, witty, and charismatic and I don't mind watching him piss away 45 minutes of my life as long as he looks good doing it. Since so many other people think otherwise though, I'd be just terrible at reviews. One thing I agree with everybody else on is the time-skip. It's frustrating. I wanted to see Al Capone in his hey-day next to Van Alden busting heads and having hot All-American sex with his wife. I'm hoping this last season is done Pulp Fiction style with the narrative jumping all over the place, but I'm expecting Godfather Part 2 style with progressing flashbacks to Nucky's childhood. Regardless of what happens, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since it's only the first episode and they'll at least touch on those things we all wanted to see.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 14:14
|
|
|
I think a lot of it is from having the show ripped away like this. Only seven more episodes, but I would have watched seven more seasons 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 14:36
|
|
|
So any word about whether Dr. Narcisse will pop up this season? I really enjoyed his feud with Chalky last year, and it seemed like they were building up to something with him... EDIT: Cool. I didn't get a chance to see that special or whatever, unfortunately. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Sep 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:So any word about whether Dr. Narcisse will pop up this season? I really enjoyed his feud with Chalky last year, and it seemed like they were building up to something with him... Before the episode started they were talking to actors at the premiere and one of them was Jeffrey Wright. So it's probably a safe bet that he'll show up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 18:23
|
|
|
Pron on VHS posted:Forgive me but I tend to forget everything that happens in TV shows season to season but...we don't know why Chalky was in prison, right? I thought last season ended with him sitting in his club watching his daughter die. Last time we saw him, he was at his friend Oscar's place, sitting in a rocking chair and staring off into space as basically a broken man after his daughter had been killed. Don't get me wrong, I like Michael K. Williams and he's continuously great in this show, but I feel like that would have been a pretty good place to end his character's story. The Chalky in jail and on the run thing isn't really interesting yet. I feel the same way about Gillian Darmody, her character's story felt like it reached its end last season, and keeping her in for this one seems weird. Also, I feel like if they're going to do flashbacks for the final season, we should get at least one episode that features Rothstein's demise.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
I was interested in seeing the hosed up state of the mental health system in 1920s America via Gillian, but the timeskip makes it seem like there's little chance of that happening. Hopefully J. Edgar still features, I can't imagine he wouldn't and I loved his appearances last season.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 23:57
|
|
|
Just caught up with the show. That bank scene is really disturbing me for some reason. A rousing speech about persistence using Mickey Mouse as an example then reveling in how much money could be made during a Recession lured me in, and even when he pulled the gun out I thought it was going to be part of some misguided, theatrical way of getting his staff on board... The "No, it's going to be okay!  " right before the end cinched it. That was Good Stephen King level messed up.Remind me, the VP was into some shady stock manipulations or something, right? Or was that just Margaret?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 00:00
|
|
|
Professor Shark posted:Remind me, the VP was into some shady stock manipulations or something, right? Or was that just Margaret? I "think" it was the same guy who was pulling the stock scam on guys like Rothstein (who then used Margaret to make sure he got the inside scoop and profited as well). I loved the President's distracted conversation with Margaret, ending with,"Did I ask you how you were feeling? I did? ....good.... that's good...."
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 00:02
|
|
|
LesterGroans posted:It's actually more complaining about a season that never happened. It does blow, but the flashback-centric hour we just saw says to me we'll probably go back to see what happened to him. We should probably just keep watching!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 01:06
|
|
|
I hope we get a flashback to Rothstein during the season but since it's 8 episodes, I bet it's already packed to the brim as is. That being said, I was legitimately pleased to see Jeffrey Wright in the opening credits because Dr. Narcisse owned hard and I can't wait for the conclusion of Chalky vs. Narcisse: The Grudge Match.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 01:22
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I was interested in seeing the hosed up state of the mental health system in 1920s America via Gillian, but the timeskip makes it seem like there's little chance of that happening. It's not quite the '20s, but there's an episode of Carnivale where Brother Justin gets thrown into an asylum.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 01:32
|
|
|
Does the ear thing belong to a certain culture at the time? It wasn't clear where the bodyguard was from.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 01:40
|
|
|
overtone posted:Does the ear thing belong to a certain culture at the time? It wasn't clear where the bodyguard was from. Maybe it's a reference to Reservoir Dogs?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 02:07
|
|
|
The idea of carving off a trophy from a slain enemy is pretty old
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 02:20
|
|
|
Pron on VHS posted:The idea of carving off a trophy from a slain enemy is pretty old Yes, but I was more wondering if it was related to something like the Taino Indians, or if Nucky brought someone from the States.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 02:25
|
|
|
Dangerous Person posted:Masseria's death was the main thing I was looking forward to this season after I found out it would be 1931. Guess it was cool of them to just give us that one right out the gate. Riled Shareef posted:But we'll definitely be seeing how he handed Gillian off to the Commodore and everything associated with that act
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 02:31
|
|
|
Snark posted:Ugh. I get how it would fit into the Young Nucky narrative, but I'm not looking forward to watching this play out. Now that you mention it I can see this being a really important scene. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. The gravity of the whole affair didn't really dawn on me until I remembered how young they both were when it happened. Anyone hoping for a Rothstein death scene flashback or a Valentine's Day Massacre flashback or anything from the end of the 20's is going to be disappointed, calling it now. It's already been rumored that all of the flashbacks are concerning Nucky's childhood and I highly doubt the flashbacks will deviate from that story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 04:01
|
|
|
Pedro De Heredia posted:The real-life history of those characters has never been particularly important in the show. Hell, the characters themselves haven't been particularly important, they're just side characters. Eveyone outside of Nucky is a side character by that definition. And we have fallen in love with some of those side characters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 04:13
|
|
|
I just want Van Alden to either live or go out in the most baller way possible. He already had the most gangster moment of the whole show when he made it rain on his criminal wife.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 04:20
|
|
|
Why was Chalky limping? Was that from the Dr. Narcisse war last season?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 04:25
|
|
|
Narcissus1916 posted:Why was Chalky limping? Was that from the Dr. Narcisse war last season? He was probably limping because of his bad shoes. The one that wasn't tied and then the lace broke.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 04:54
|
|
|
My biggest complaint about the episode per se is that I pride myself on being a fairly observant tv watcher, able to see a lot of hidden meaning and symbolism in shows like this, Mad Men, Sopranos, etc. But it wasn't til I read this thread that I got the dots connected for me about Bacardi-Lansky-Nucky's Childhood. It all seemed unconnected, and I usually suss these things out at least partially. It's like they are being way too esoteric and obtuse and I hope it's just me and not the show disappearing up it's own rear end the last season.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
There is critisisms about this show every season for the first four episodes that everything seem unfocused and disconnected. Then it all comes together and we lose our poo poo and wonder why we ever doubted the showrunners.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 05:24
|
|
|
I will agree that I feel like there should have been a season between the last and this one that maybe covered a larger period than usual, perhaps. I feel like the jump really killed some long-term momentum that had been building, but that's been covered by everyone. I also agree that the flashbacks do feel a like they're a little much, with there only being eight more episodes. That being said, it seems like they might be able to pull this off pretty well. I understand the purpose of the flashbacks, and honestly, the way AR's murder, the St. Valentine's Day massacre, The Atlantic City conference, etc. seems to be getting little to no attention, now does sort of feel right to me. As much as I'd have loved to have seen those things play out in the show, it feels like the show has maintained an attitude, maybe even a theme of everything rolling with the punches. The characters may hold some grudges and lament from time to time (some more than others--mostly Nucky), but unless they are killed off, they seem to always fight to keep their head above water (this can be taken literally in the cases of at least two characters that I can think of, too, though they were both pretty small parts). So I can deal. I'll see how I feel about the season as a whole when it's over (or to the unlikely point of irredeemability). Also, I agree that the show's cinematography, eye for visual cues and use of mise-en-scene are impressive, and it would be a lesser show without it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 05:56
|
|
|
The burning question is, are we going to see more of Mickey Doyle? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 05:57
|
|
|
Gordon Shumway posted:I feel the same way about Gillian Darmody, her character's story felt like it reached its end last season, and keeping her in for this one seems weird. As people have said, what Nucky did to Gillian seems like his crossing the Rubicon moment. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the flashbacks are building to, and it makes sense to me that if he is trying to put his criminal life behind him that he might try to make some sort of amends for what he did. I always felt that "I am not seeking forgiveness" line before he shot Jimmy was total bullshit. The best ending would be if he arranged things so she is released from prison and then she stabs him a hundred loving times in the final scene. Jerusalem posted:The burning question is, are we going to see more of Mickey Doyle? I'm almost positive I saw Paul Sparks' name in the opening.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 06:52
|
|
|
I watched this episode with my usual Boardwalk Empire group, and those who didn't obsessively wiki the mobsters were confused as hell. The show has generally done a good job of showing us history without NEEDING to have prior knowledge. But throwing in an off-hand, mumbled "A.R.'s funeral" isn't just an odd offscreen way to handle a major character's death. It is also hideously confusing if you're not well versed in mobster history. Similarly, I can't believe we spent a solid two seasons or so building up Luciano's loyalty to Masseria only to keep us, the audience, completely in the dark about why Luciano finally decided to take him out. I mean, at least we saw it, and it wasn't like Masseria was a well-rounded character. But still.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 06:58
|
|
|
Narcissus1916 posted:Similarly, I can't believe we spent a solid two seasons or so building up Luciano's loyalty to Masseria only to keep us, the audience, completely in the dark about why Luciano finally decided to take him out. I mean, at least we saw it, and it wasn't like Masseria was a well-rounded character. But still. Have we been watching the same show? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfEH_DWQJG0 Does that look like a healthy working relationship? Luciano was put in his place by Masseria is a humiliating show of power back in season 3. That all but ensured Masseria's death as soon as Luciano solidified his own power base. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROmCW3to4M8 *This also implies that Lansky was behind A.R.'s death. Watch that brief interaction from Sunday's episode again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 07:22
|
|
|
I didn't realise the time jump was 7 years. There's always a bit of a step forward, didn't think it'd be a huge loving leap though. The chalky on the chain gang thing I can understand, it's not that hard to expect that a guy with a propensity to commit violence, black and having lost his reason for having a modicum of self control would end up in prison one way or another. Dude could've beaten someone to death, it doesn't really matter how, it's not a big leap in terms of continuity. Am I the only one who's 100% more invested in seeing the Chicago side of things than Nucky's back story? I think it's been hammered home pretty well by everything we've seen in the previous seasons that his family are a pack of jerks except his mother and sister and that's why he's got a soft spot for the poor and down trodden and also has a significant amount of self loathing and hatred for the life of decadence the elite continue to lead. Hopefully this was more of a one off kind of deal, but it would be a little odd for them to start off part of his childhood story and leave it there, unless it's meant to be unsaid how he rose to power. I'm going to guess the seasons going to be about him trying to solidify his connections to be the go to mean for legal booze along with the other characters looking for more lucrative illegal streams of revenue once the hooch money dries up. I'm curious as to what's happening with Eli and more importantly his son who was in Nucky's employ the last we saw him. The show really could have done without having Mrs Schroder there for the final season. The whole quid-pro-quo relationship with AR was a find ending for her character. We don't really need to see her pouting about how hard life is for an unwed mother that being said the suicide scene kind of owned.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 07:35
|
|
|
Luciano the bachelor played the field
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 08:45
|
|
BlindSite posted:Am I the only one who's 100% more invested in seeing the Chicago side of things than Nucky's back story?
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 09:03
|
|
|
Come on, guys. The show just started, there are still enough episodes left to turn it all around. You'll see. This happens every season, it starts off slow and seemingly disjointed and it's all "heeey where's my favorite character?" and then a couple of episodes later it all comes together. It's going to be fine. Just fine. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 11:29
|
|
|
overtone posted:Yes, but I was more wondering if it was related to something like the Taino Indians, or if Nucky brought someone from the States. I think part of the reason that the show isn't as acclaimed as other prestige dramas is a lot of the cues are very subtle. You're meant to assume that the ear guy is Nucky's bodyguard, but he's not. They reveal this at the end of the episode, when Nucky asks Sally Wheet to go to bed with him. He says "it's a bad night to be alone," she tells him "I'm not alone." Then she goes off arm-in-arm with the ear guy. He's Sally's bodyguard, apparently her boyfriend as well. Think back to the scene where Nucky is attacked, it takes something like 30 seconds for the guy to step in. At the time I watched that I still thought he was Nucky's bodyguard I couldn't figure that out, because he'd been shadowing Nucky the whole episode and then was suddenly missing. He was missing because he was shadowing Sally, and at that moment Nucky had stepped away from her. E: Anyway, I think what you're supposed to take away from it is Nucky is (A) alone and isolated again and (B) out of practice because he's been safely in control of Atlantic City for the past seven years. He didn't even bring his own bodyguards to Havana. This is going to be a problem because, at the end of the last season, Nucky was part of a heroin ring with Narcisse, Masseria, and the Tampa guy (can't remember his name). Lansky and Luciano were also involved. In the most recent episode, Luciano assassinated Masseria, and Benny Siegel was one of the hitmen--Siegel is Jewish and belongs to Meyer. This shows that, contrary to what they're telling everybody, Luciano and Lansky are still partners. So, it's possible that the hit on Nucky was paired with the attack on Masseria, to allow Lansky & Luciano to seize control of the heroin ring in one swoop. They did it in Havana, because they knew they couldn't get at Nucky in his own town. This is just a guess, though. Schenck v. U.S. fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Sep 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 13:42
|
|
|
What in Christ's name. She's 'not alone' because she's with Nucky. The guy's his bodyguard. He was slow because it's an action scene.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 13:59
|
|
|
If you're going to act indignant you could at least try watching the episode. You very clearly see her brush Nucky off and leave arm in arm with ear-taker. On what robot planet does that communicate that she's with Nucky to anybody?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 14:54
|
|
|
HBO.com's synopsis of the episode says he is Nucky's bodyguard, and refers to him by the name Arquimedes. Reviews by people who've seen more than one episode also refer to him as Nucky's bodyguard. Interpreting her saying 'I am not alone' and leaving with the bodyguard as meaning 'This is who I am with, this is my guy, my bodyguard, my boyfriend' isn't crazy or anything, but it's odd to argue the show is being subtle by interpreting a scene in the most literal way possible. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Sep 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 15:22
|
|
|
How great was the casting for wee Nucky? You know from the first shot who that is.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 15:57
|
|
|
That DICK! posted:Have they mentioned Nuckys sister before? They have, but only in passing. I can remember Nucky talking to someone and mentioning his sister "died of consumption". I don't think they delved much into it other than a few lines until this episode. I must have totally missed the hint that AR is dead. That character was one of my favorites and I'm sad he won't be around anymore.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 16:29 |
|
|
Not Today Satan posted:They have, but only in passing. I can remember Nucky talking to someone and mentioning his sister "died of consumption". I don't think they delved much into it other than a few lines until this episode. It goes by so quickly that I can't even believe I caught it. I knew to look out for it because of history. It gets mentioned once, in passing, when Nucky mentions the last time he saw Meyer. Meyer just says, "at AR's funeral." That's it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:21
|
|
