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Mercrom posted:Coming from Fate/Zero the writing in this is pretty shocking. I definitely wouldn't watch it if it wasn't for the fight scenes. Huh, wow. I feel the exact same way. The Fate/Zero characters may have had their issues, but I felt it was superior to a bunch of kids kind of...Faffing about and not really knowing what they were doing or what the stakes are. I haven't read the VN so maybe that changes, Caster at least suggests someone who knows what they're doing. Also, since this has been bugging me for a while, does Heaven's Feel explain what is going on with Zouken? I can't understand what he's doing at all considering Fate/Zero. Why is Sakura allowed to go to school and have friends and stay over with Shirou? Isn't the whole point to just use her as a breeding vessel and dump her? Although the 5th War is like 50 years early, that might have something to do with it... Also, why the hell did Zouken have Shinji of all people as a Master? The guy can't even use mana or do any magic apparently, which makes him even worse than Kariya. Why didn't Zouken just do the whole Crest Worm implantation on Shinji as well? He seems to be kind of expendable. I'm not really looking for spoilers, just more of a yes or no if this is ever explained. I'm curious, though...The guy Kiritsugu was interrogating and shot in the leg, that was Shinji's father, right? Kariya's brother? And yeah, the fight scenes are excellent, especially in regards to sound design.
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Dec 7, 2014 12:21
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I think the biggest problem, for me, is that Urobuchi was right. Fate/Zero was not meant to be a setup story for FSN for those uninitiated in it, rather it is meant to fill in a backstory hinted at in FSN. I knew this going into UBW, but F/Z still colours my perception of the work. I think part of the issue as well is that UBW and FSN as well feel like completely different works from F/Z. Yes, the pacing is similar; Kiritsugu does not get expanded on until much later in F/Z, and it seems UBW is following a similar kind of pacing style. It's why I'm willing to trust the people who say it'll get better later, Fate/Zero certainly did. But getting back to my point, the fundamental problem here is that UBW and F/Z are two different shows. One is about a war fought by people who, more or less, know what they're doing and a lot of the action in F/Z is driven by this. All the fights in F/Z, while not as well done as UBW's, are still more exciting narratively for this reason. UBW on the other hand is less a war and more an adventure where Shirou kind of bumbles around, is stupid and fights Servants, has awkward teenage scenes with Rin, etc etc. Of course I haven't seen all of UBW yet, so this may change later on. F/Z had this in a way with Waver, but Waver 1, wasn't the main focus of F/Z, and 2, I felt was better written and handled as a teenage character than the UBW characters so far. Mercrom posted:I agree with he posters in this thread that say this isn't Fate/Zero and shouldn't be treated like it's supposed to be. The reason I'm comparing this show to F/Z is simply because spoilers from that show are allowed. This show has more in common with Madoka Magica considering it's about a naive selfless person who desperately wants to be a hero. I would say that Fate/Zero has more in common with Madoka than UBW does so far. Both deal with similar takes on idealism. Madoka and Rebellion spoilers (We might want to take this to the Madoka thread) I feel that F/Z kind of exists as a prototype work that had a large effect on what Madoka ended up being. It takes a seperate path from Madoka, wherein Kiritsugu does not get his wish, while Madoka does. Essentially, Fate/Zero denies idealism while Madoka affirms it. What's more interesting, however, is how Rebellion changes the equation. I feel like Kiritsugu is something like Homura's literary ancestor, beyond the time magic, gun use, and penchant for destruction on a large scale, they have similar arcs. In the end, neither of them can achieve their ideal, the concept of the jouissance is used in both of their cases. As well, thinking on what Demon Homura is actually going to be like, the actions of Kiritsugu are, I feel, a good place to start. What's more interesting is how Kiritsugu relates to Madoka. I feel that, essentially, he and Madoka ended up taking the same choice. Kiritsugu had the choice between the human race and his family, and he chose the majority. Madoka makes a similar choice; choosing to save all Magical Girls over saving just Homura. In Eternal this isn't really represented like a choice, but I feel Rebellion retroactively makes it one. Madoka's wish is what causes Rebellion to happen, it is why Homura becomes Demon Homura. The fact that Madoka couldn't actually save Homura is poignant in this respect, as it shows there really was a choice at the end of Eternal.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:29
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Mad Lupine posted:I just have a question about Saber. I've only watched Fate/Zero so bear with me. Is there a reason why Saber has no reaction to learning that Shirou was Kiritsugu's adopted son? I'm assuming this story is taking off from where Fate/Zero ended, so I expected Saber being the servant of her previous master's son would be some sort of plot point, but so far it isn't? If the reason for this is spoilery, just let me know and I'll wait. It's just a bit annoying that whenever Kiritsugu's name comes up, Saber's reaction isn't that of complete contempt. The reason is that Fate/Zero was written afterwards, and is meant to be watched after you've read FSN. Being in the same position myself, I just find Saber's character odd in general, in a way I can't really place exactly. The way she's acting doesn't seem to flow very well from Fate/Zero.
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Dec 28, 2014 05:36
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Yeah, chalk me up as another guy coming from Fate/Zero and actually getting excited for UBW now. That first cour was...Not so great, personally. I'm aware FSN is different from F/Z, but christ. I think the thing that bothered me the most is basically we're kind of forced to pay attention to Rin and Shirou being stupid and making stupid decisions constantly. Rin leaving Archer behind all the time (Why? I seriously don't understand why she keeps doing that, this last episode even repeats the issue with a bounded field we had in the school a couple episodes ago!) and Shirou fighting Servants, among other examples. I honestly wish Caster was the protagonist now, so she can actually win. She's certainly putting in the effort and actually taking this seriously, unlike our protagonists. I hope she ganks Archer at some point too, preferably when he's sitting in Rin's house doing nothing while Rin is off doing whatever. That scene with Saber looking sad after getting captured actually made me laugh, it was just kind of ridiculous and didn't feel like it had much weight to it. If the next cour is Caster getting down to business it should be a lot better.
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Dec 29, 2014 07:52
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