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Plague of Hats posted:That and he's a fantasy author. He's King of Never Shutting Up. Terry Goodkind posted:Before we begin, I would like to clarify an important point that is often the source of confusion: I am a novelist; I am not, in the essential sense, a fantasy author.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:32
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Man, that sword really is the shittiest-looking supersword ever. Also, pretty much the only part of that long rant I read was that ideas should drive a story. Isn't that usually supposed to be 'characters'?
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Oct 7, 2014 02:40
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Gazetteer posted:To be entirely fair, that is less an Objectivist thing and more a "fantasy novelists in the 90s" thing. Even the Wheel of Time, the Elvis loving Presley of bloated 90's fantasy sagas, clocks in at a svelte 462 hours (19.5 days, or 5.7 work weeks) worth of audiobook. Goodkind is two thirds of a Robert Jordan, and God help us all.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:46
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Mors Rattus posted:Also, pretty much the only part of that long rant I read was that ideas should drive a story. T. Goodkind, author of the Sword of Truth, is shockingly a moron, a tool, and a bad writer. quote:Look at WIZARD'S FIRST RULE. What did my publisher insist be on the cover? A red dragon. Was a red dragon, per se, central to the story? No. But in the minds of unthinking individuals the existence of a red dragon in the story superseded all other aspects and defined the book, therefore it went on the cover. quote:Yet there are those who rail at me because I don't behave like a fantasy author is "supposed" to. I don't follow the rules, as they see it. quote:As a result, in the minds of some readers I am for all time to be labeled as a “fantasy" author. So I must now follow some unstated laws of writing - I must know my place - because I've been mindlessly labeled a "fantasy" author? That, my friends, is bigotry. quote:I am not an obedient subservient cog of a group, slavishly following the group's conventions. I am a thinking individual acting of my own free will. quote:Most of Shania Twain's fans are not regular country music fans. Most of my fans are not regular fantasy fans nor are they so bigoted that they think I must know my place and stay in it.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:54
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Goodkind's head is so far up his own rear end he can see daylight again.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:59
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I was remiss. Clearly this book full of nude wizards, rape witches and truth-seeking SSJ4 Goku is no mere fantasy!
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Oct 7, 2014 03:02
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I might be confusing the book (I only read the first one) and the TV show, but wasn't there a lot about the confessors enslaving men with their magick womanly powers?
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Oct 7, 2014 03:05
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Bucnasti posted:I might be confusing the book (I only read the first one) and the TV show, but wasn't there a lot about the
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Oct 7, 2014 03:08
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Gazetteer posted:Like I said, there are multiple organisations in this universe which could easily be described as "bondage priestesses." god damnit I just remembered the nipple assassin
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Oct 7, 2014 03:27
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Thanatosian posted:In fairness, Goodkind does attempt to justify the Boxes of Orden. It makes no sense even in context, but he tries to answer the question. So what was the excuse for the boxes again? And even as a kid the whole massive anger issues superpower seemed retarded to me.
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Oct 7, 2014 04:05
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Look, if we talk about all of the dumb things right off the bat then what's the point of having this poor idiot slog through this refuse pile chapter by chapter?
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Oct 7, 2014 04:08
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:So what was the excuse for the boxes again? And even as a kid the whole massive anger issues superpower seemed retarded to me. I am not going to spoil this since it's at the very end of the series. You are just going to have to soldier through.
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Oct 7, 2014 04:20
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quote:Fantasy usually takes conventional values as a given. For example, the evil being battled is commonly a dark force that wishes to do evil- without any reason beyond that it is evil. Unlike Darken Rahl, who
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Oct 7, 2014 04:51
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Ixjuvin posted:Look, if we talk about all of the dumb things right off the bat then what's the point of having this poor idiot slog through this refuse pile chapter by chapter? Let's be honest - even now we've barely begun to scrape the surface of that pit mine of idiocy. There's plenty left for the poor bastard to unearth.
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Oct 7, 2014 05:29
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Let's be honest - even now we've barely begun to scrape the surface of that pit mine of idiocy. There's plenty left for the poor bastard to unearth. we're scooting along rock bottom quite nicely though!
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Oct 7, 2014 05:51
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quote:I am not an obedient subservient cog of a group, slavishly following the group's conventions. I am a thinking individual acting of my own free will. It's a bad sign when you're a self-proclaimed "novelist, not a fantasy author" and the words you utter to defend that proposition are indistinguishable from something one of your protagonists would say.
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Oct 7, 2014 06:01
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Can someone tell me why this thread exists and why is it here instead of the book barn?
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Oct 7, 2014 07:00
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Probably the same reason the paranoid right-wing fantasy novels go into TFR.
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Oct 7, 2014 07:10
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Thanatosian posted:I am not going to spoil this since it's at the very end of the series. Fun fact: the original "final book" of the series is where I stopped. Someone spoiled the ending and that was what made me go "Oh gently caress you". So the fact that I didn't know that, but did know how this ends, means I already know what causes it. Goddamnit. TheLovablePlutonis posted:Can someone tell me why this thread exists and why is it here instead of the book barn? DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:So when Mors Rattus did that Xanth readalong ages back, somehow I stuck my big fat foot in my mouth and said I'd take care of a fantasy series that was unabashedly worse if he ever finished. Come to find out someone mentions to me the other day "So he finished, where's your poo poo, man?" And now we're here. I even asked Winson if it was allowed back then, he said I was stuck with it.
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Oct 7, 2014 07:36
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Thanatosian posted:I am not going to spoil this since it's at the very end of the series. I started to read over the reason for it myself but my eyes glazed over. Guess I'm stuck reading the thread!
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Oct 7, 2014 11:08
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I was once at a book signing by George RR Martin, and he said that the defining characteristic of a fantasy novel, what lands it in the 'fantasy' section rather than the 'literature' section, was the inclusion of a map at the front. I think he was kidding on the square. The thing that really REALLY bugs the poo poo out of me, about almost any series of THIS TYPE, including SoT, or GoT, and so on, is the idea that civilization will happily hum along at a stagnant level for thousands of years. Yes, magic explains some of it, but not all. "Nice sword, Seeker. Riflemen! STAND UP! LOAD! PRESENT! AIM! FIRE! FIRST RANK, TWO STEPS BACK! LOAD! PRESENT! AIM! FIRE! SECOND RANK, TWO STEPS BACK! LOAD! PRESENT! AIM! FIRE!' That said, the magical arms races were nice. Zedd giving a speech to a bunch of nancyboy wizards-in-training and cloistered magic nuns about the realities of warfare was nice. I kinda like the idea of a good righteous anger giving somebody the drive to see unpleasant tasks through. (Just ask Captain Kirk post-transporter accident) Of the SoT being a kinda ombudsman, not beholden to a single ruler. Magical pain dildos? Hmmm. Though I loved how the TV adaptation actually managed to one-up the books; in the books, I don't think ANY Mord-Sith (which is what you get if Tolkeen bought Lucas a few drinks, took him back to his place, slipped him a Quaalude, and went Roman Pulanski on his rear end, AND it's series-appropriate!) ever thought DUAL-WIELDING would be a good idea!
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Oct 7, 2014 14:15
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To answer those sorts of questions requires that I convey intellectual information. e: At least WoT had the grace to tie the whole technological semi-stagnation into both the backstory of the world and the ongoing meta-plot. The general Tolkien-heritage is to generally skip over all that so you can have more swordfights and backpacking around the world (RJ got around that dilemma by simply including even more words  ).
Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 15:48
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The Anger thing felt so ridiculous to me because I was like 'you spent all this time building up he never gets angry but then he gets angry 9 chapters in?' It felt like he did not actually not get angry, he just pretended he didn't or something. Even when I didn't know this book had a sequel series I felt like it came too early and a better book would have held that plot point for longer.
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Oct 7, 2014 15:54
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RPZip posted:Probably the same reason the paranoid right-wing fantasy novels go into TFR. Doesn't make it right either... DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Answered in the tiny OP: There was another of those? Why Winson allowed that?
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Oct 7, 2014 16:06
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Ixjuvin posted:Look, if we talk about all of the dumb things right off the bat then what's the point of having this poor idiot slog through this refuse pile chapter by chapter? agreed. chapter-by-chapter tedious slogs through awful books are dumb as hell
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Oct 7, 2014 17:52
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TheCenturion posted:The thing that really REALLY bugs the poo poo out of me, about almost any series of THIS TYPE, including SoT, or GoT, and so on, is the idea that civilization will happily hum along at a stagnant level for thousands of years. Eh, I don't find it too bothersome. Technology has declined and stagnated for great periods of time in real history, and many series do have some explanation for why it has done so in their worlds. Many settings present a world in decline or a world recovering from some apocalyptic event. Indeed, this is fundamental to the essentially conservative nature of the genre: "the world today is worse than the world that once was."
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Oct 7, 2014 18:08
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What prevents people from just noting down which of the Boxes of Orden blow you up and which ones grant you divine powers? Wouldn't it be a simple matter of carving an X into the lid or tying a red bow around one of the DEATH BOXES after you saw it melt someone? You'd figure that if you owned an artifact of potentially infinite power, you'd want to keep track of that sort of thing.TheCenturion posted:The thing that really REALLY bugs the poo poo out of me, about almost any series of THIS TYPE, including SoT, or GoT, and so on, is the idea that civilization will happily hum along at a stagnant level for thousands of years. I think the usual explanation is that every time things are about to get better or have a long period of peace to allow for people to, say, invent the steam engine without having their head lopped off, some demons or evil wizards or something pop out and blow everything back to the stone age. Hence the omnipresent remains of ruins from a BETTER AGE full of awesome stuff no one has any longer.
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Oct 7, 2014 21:06
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PleasingFungus posted:agreed. chapter-by-chapter tedious slogs through awful books are dumb as hell Agreed.
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Oct 7, 2014 21:10
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To be fair the Boxes of Orden are a pretty bad gamble. 2 out of the 3 is a bad result for you.
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Oct 7, 2014 21:37
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Sotar posted:To be fair the Boxes of Orden are a pretty bad gamble. 2 out of the 3 is a bad result for you. Only if you're not a generically evil bad-guy for whom destroying all life isn't your back up plan.
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Oct 7, 2014 21:42
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another question about the boxes; Why ever 'put them in play' until you both have all three and know which one is the correct one to open. I have read this before and I remember that there are ways to do so, so why would you ever put them 'in play' before you have both all three of them and you are ready to open them? it makes no sense.
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Oct 7, 2014 22:43
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Also, why the gently caress is it called a gaming metaphor? Why are the names so so lame?
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Oct 7, 2014 22:50
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TheCenturion posted:The thing that really REALLY bugs the poo poo out of me, about almost any series of THIS TYPE, including SoT, or GoT, and so on, is the idea that civilization will happily hum along at a stagnant level for thousands of years. Good Writer, Joe Abercrombie's series is actually great about this. By the mid-point in the series the knock-off victorian civilization had gone from sword and pole-arms to field testing cannons and gatling guns. Also, it has the best iteration of knock-off Gandalf in fantasy ever. On-topic, the one scene I remember from SoT was an absurd scene where a battle nun literally appears from underneath a table out of nowhere, where she's been blowing a Asimov "mule" knockoff, to info-dump and then wiped her mouth, and went bent back to work. While the mule is like just eating and conversing. Thundercracker fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 23:20
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Thundercracker posted:Good Writer, Joe Abercrombie's series is actually great about this. By the mid-point in the series the knock-off victorian civilization had gone from sword and pole-arms to field testing cannons and gatling guns. To be fair, though, Abercrombie has his own issues, like an obsession with making things as dark, grim, gritty, irredeemably bad and dirty as possible. It feels like an effort for him to write anything even approaching a slightly happy end or positive outcome, and he usually seems to default to: "AND THEN IT WAS ALL POINTLESS, THE END." He also needs to learn not to try and put sex scenes in his books, because while plausibly there's a way to write a non-terrible sex scene in fiction, I've yet to see it, and Abercrombie certainly does not seem to be the one who's going to break the mold.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:33
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PurpleXVI posted:What prevents people from just noting down which of the Boxes of Orden blow you up and which ones grant you divine powers? Wouldn't it be a simple matter of carving an X into the lid or tying a red bow around one of the DEATH BOXES after you saw it melt someone? You'd figure that if you owned an artifact of potentially infinite power, you'd want to keep track of that sort of thing. This comes up later. IIRC, it's they all look identical but cast shadows differently, and how you intend to use them (altruistically vs. selfishly) shifts which one is which.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:40
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President Ark posted:This comes up later. But isn't altruism an evil thing and selfishness a good one under objectivism?
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Oct 7, 2014 23:42
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Mors Rattus posted:But isn't altruism an evil thing and selfishness a good one under objectivism? I can't remember the exact details because I tried to purge the series from my memory, that's just what I remember offhand.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:43
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Mors Rattus posted:But isn't altruism an evil thing and selfishness a good one under objectivism? Well you see all altruism is actually motivated by our selfish desires to feel like good people and our cowardly denial of our true nature. Only truly brave and moral people have what it takes to be callous pricks.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:45
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Mors Rattus posted:But isn't altruism an evil thing and selfishness a good one under objectivism? The only real "good" under Objectivism, as I understand it, is to accept your "station in life." i.e. if you're an untermensch, to work without complaint and obey the ubermenschen who know what's best for you, and if you're an ubermensch, to order around the little antmen who do all your hard work but lack your mental faculties and ambition.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:51
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I have confessions to make: 1) I read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged by randomly choosing a book at a bookstore and thought I like Objectivism,which lead to reading the Sword of Truth Series. I actually fairly enjoyed most of the series, but don't ascribe to Objectivism anymore. 2) I actually enjoyed the "lovely" BDSM in this Book. Sorry. Oh well. BUT, I am sure I missed a ton of stupid libertarian stuff while reading it, so I'm excited to see your critical analysis.
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Oct 8, 2014 01:53
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