|
Burt Buckle posted:Yeah but the people of North Korea will probably be better off long term with a regime change. Were conditions in Iraq under Saddam as bad as conditions in North Korea under Kim? No. But the problem is the word "probably," because we don't really know what would probably happen. Recent efforts to depose entrenched regimes have invariably led to chaos and severe unforeseen consequences. Destabilizing East Asia the way we destabilized the Middle East is the sort of thing which could bring us appreciably closer to WWIII. Basically, we have no idea what we're doing, and our ethical calculations should reflect that.
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 05:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 02:49 |
|
|
Burt Buckle posted:I love watching those videos. The whole railroaded tour is fascinating in its own right, but I wish there was more footage of life outside the capital city. It will be fascinating to see what is uncovered after reunification (if that ever happens). And you thought ISIS had been busy with making mass graves.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 05:37
|
|
|
.
sincx fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 08:23
|
|
|
sincx posted:The only country that can possibly have a chance of successfully regime changing North Korea is the PRC, and even then it will be enormously risky (no one wants to play "find the missing nukes") and extremely expensive (a few hundred thousand refugees brought Europe to its knees; a NK collapse will produce millions). Yeah, no, we're taking them just fine. Hell, millions of refugees would not bring Europe to it's knees. Sure, our politicians and populations are racist fuckholes who paint it that way, but infrastructurally the problem simply does not exist. Lebanon, a country of 6 million, with none of Europes hyper-modern infrastructure and economic surplus, took 2 million refugees and has not been 'brought to its knees', whatever that is supposed to mean.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 11:56
|
|
|
Hook-nosed cowboys make an appearance in this recent DPRK propaganda video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZDBKTaS6E Intended for a South Korean audience I'm imagining as the text is only in Korean. Nice '70s sci-fi movie sound effects in the beginning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 12:16
|
|
|
I take back every unkind thing I've ever said about the North Korean regime. The DPRK is a most stable and harmonious country based on single hearted unity.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
Tias posted:Yeah, no, we're taking them just fine. Hell, millions of refugees would not bring Europe to it's knees. Sure, our politicians and populations are racist fuckholes who paint it that way, but infrastructurally the problem simply does not exist. Yeah, it's safer to say that many Europeans were brought right down to the ground by the refugee problem, but only in this sense:  That said, even if China were completely willing and able there would still be massive chaos, suffering, and financial costs involved in a NK refugee crisis, and even were everyone all to agree waiting only makes it worse, it should be no surprise people aren't lining up to pull the trigger.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
every nation in the world desperately desires to paint their capacity for action and ability to withstand challenges as nonexistent so that the people in them won't ask them to do anything hard, in TYOOL 2017
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 17:32
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:every nation in the world desperately desires to paint their capacity for action and ability to withstand challenges as nonexistent so that the people in them won't ask them to do anything hard, in TYOOL 2017 God, it's so annoyingly true.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
BrutalistMcDonalds posted:Hook-nosed cowboys make an appearance in this recent DPRK propaganda video: Sweet synthesizer/midi music. I also liked the American flag with skulls instead of stars. It looked badass.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 18:56
|
|
|
Heads up guys - Kim Jong Un is a 'smart cookie'.The Guardian posted:As tensions between the US and North Korea continued on Sunday, Donald Trump said North Korean leader Kim Jong-un was “a pretty smart cookie” for managing to hold on to power after taking over at a young age.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
Is there any consensus from South Korea that this escalation is different than the usual saber rattling?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:Is there any consensus from South Korea that this escalation is different than the usual saber rattling?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
a glitch posted:Heads up guys - Kim Jong Un is a 'smart cookie'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
a glitch posted:Heads up guys - Kim Jong Un is a 'smart cookie'. man it must be bewildering for other countries to read this kind of racist grandpa rambling
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
Burt Buckle posted:Yeah but the people of North Korea will probably be better off long term with a regime change. Were conditions in Iraq under Saddam as bad as conditions in North Korea under Kim? tours go outside of pyongyang all the time and the assumption a city of millions of people is carefully curated just for us is a mite orientalist
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:08
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:tours go outside of pyongyang all the time and the assumption a city of millions of people is carefully curated just for us is a mite orientalist If the US government ran official tours of the country and banned you from attending any unofficial tours, would you trust them to show you any but the best looking parts of the US?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:10
|
|
|
fishmech posted:If the US government ran official tours of the country and banned you from attending any unofficial tours, would you trust them to show you any but the best looking parts of the US? the dprk government doesn't run the tours
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:13
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:the dprk government doesn't run the tours Yes they do. Government agencies are in close charge of all authorized tourism, while allowing contracted businesses to run them, for westerners in the DPRK (generally Chinese and some Russian visitors are allowed freer range). It'd be like if the State Department in the US decided to restrict any authorized travel to a few agencies, and kept close tabs on where you were allowed to travel.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Yes they do. Government agencies are in close charge of all authorized tourism, while allowing contracted businesses to run them, for westerners in the DPRK (generally Chinese and some Russian visitors are allowed freer range). hmmm so independent companies run the tours, like i said. the existence of a tourism bureau in the government is the only factual aspect of this post
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:21
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:hmmm so independent companies run the tours, like i said. the existence of a tourism bureau in the government is the only factual aspect of this post No, the government closely decides what the tours can actually do. Sorry that you want to pretend otherwise, but then you just don't pay much attention, I guess.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:24
|
|
|
There are party officials on every tour as part of the crew.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:24
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:hmmm so independent companies run the tours, like i said. the existence of a tourism bureau in the government is the only factual aspect of this post They're independent in appearance only.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:hmmm so independent companies run the tours, like i said. the existence of a tourism bureau in the government is the only factual aspect of this post hmm fishmech wrong about something bureaucratic? quote:No matter which company you decide to book with, all tours are hosted on the ground by one of the DPRK's state owned travel companies such as the Korean International Travel Company (the oldest and largest), Korea International Youth and Children's Travel Company, or Korea Sporting Travel Company (with the exception of a few, such as Choson Exchange, Krahun Co., and The Pyongyang Project who work directly with various government ministries, domestic DPRK NGOs, and other entities in DPRK) and it will be their guides who show you around. 🤔 never bet against fishmech when it comes to bureaucratic minutiae e: more reputable source quote:“Contrary to popular belief, the process of obtaining tourist visas for North Korea is actually very simple,” said Dylan Harris from Lupine Travel, a tour operator going to North Korea. stone cold fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:There are party officials on every tour as part of the crew. they're just guides
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:34
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:they're just guides And Pinochet just had some buddies from Chicago.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:40
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:they're just guides Much like the people who escorted you out of Denny's last Sunday after you threatened to set the building on fire, there are other names for them.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
information on these companies' relationship with the dprk government is readily available outside wikipedia, from the companies themselves http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02ftlzt
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:information on these companies' relationship with the dprk government is readily available outside wikipedia, from the companies themselves You can't travel independently in North Korea as a tourist, and are required to have government minders with you. How are you not getting this? The question was: fishmech posted:If the US government ran official tours of the country and banned you from attending any unofficial tours, would you trust them to show you any but the best looking parts of the US? So what's the answer?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:You can't travel independently in North Korea as a tourist, and are required to have government minders with you. How are you not getting this? The question was: the first part of your post isn't true and the second is premised on a flawed analogy, so i really don't have to answer it now do i
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:47
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:the first part of your post isn't true and the second is premised on a flawed analogy, so i really don't have to answer it now do i quote:“The only requirement is that you are booked on a pre-planned tour with two North Korean guides for company.”
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:the first part of your post isn't true and the second is premised on a flawed analogy, so i really don't have to answer it now do i I mean, there's a source for the first part already posted on this page, and all you have are your usual blind assertions, so...
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
The WikiVoyage article on North Korea is pretty great:
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
being accompanied by guides isn't the same thing as having government minders, as the koryo guy says in his interview. other tour companies say the same thing. independent tourism is available for chinese nationals and for some reason isn't for the country the dprk is still technically at war with
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
maskenfreiheit posted:The [url="https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/North_Korea#Stay_safe"]WikiVoyage article[/u on North Korea is pretty great: lmao
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:being accompanied by guides isn't the same thing as having government minders, as the koryo guy says in his interview. other tour companies say the same thing. independent tourism is available for chinese nationals and for some reason isn't for the country the dprk is still technically at war with lmbo ok homeex is this like the time you also said the chinese weren't imperialist because uighurs have a delegation at the npc
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:being accompanied by guides isn't the same thing as having government minders, as the koryo guy says in his interview. other tour companies say the same thing. independent tourism is available for chinese nationals and for some reason isn't for the country the dprk is still technically at war with You know there's quite a lot of countries they're not at war with, right? Most of them, even.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
Independent tourism for Chinese nationals is usually limited to a certain range from the Chinese border. There's also limited independent tourism for some Russian nationals. But all other country nationals must take the government-run tour guides, including countries they're definitely not at war with due to being Eastern Bloc during the war, like Poland or who stayed wholly neutral during it like Finland.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
again, this fiction that the presence of tour guides from dprk travel companies is the same thing as having secret police following your every step has no basis in realiity. everything is state owned there with few exceptions and it wouldn't make any sense for tourism to be one of those exceptions
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 01:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 02:49 |
|
|
HahaWikipedia posted:Though gambling is prohibited for North Korean citizens,[27] two casinos exist in North Korea for the Chinese tourist market - the Emperor Hotel & Casino in Rason[27] and the Pyongyang Casino in the Yanggakdo International Hotel in Pyongyang.[28] Anything to get that hard currency, I guess.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 01:08
|
|