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I still can't believe the Wasteful Lives of High School Girls author literally named her twin girl characters Hisui and Kohaku
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Nov 7, 2019 22:23
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I just saw something odd in the intro of FSN. Here's Rin's recital when she's summoning a heroic spirit:quote:Make an oath here. Is it just me, or is there something weird about the last line? What do heroic spirits have to do with being a guardian of balance? (UBW) Isn't this the sort of spell that would get you a Counter Guardian rather than a regular hero? I guess it's always pretty clear Rin's summoning was overdetermined--- there are lots of reasons she gets the exact Servant she does--- but I hadn't noticed this before.
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Nov 18, 2019 04:44
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Blaze Dragon posted:I think that's just a translation thing since it's extremely different from every version I've seen. This is the version I most remember, though it may be simply because it's the one I tend to go to: Ugh, this is too easy to believe, there are a lot of fanciful translations of lines from FSN lying around.
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Nov 18, 2019 16:33
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The funniest thing about the duel between Shirou and the red guy is how profoundly unadaptable it is. You can't really blame Ufotable for that one, the whole drat thing is just interior monologues while two guys straightforwardly swing swords at each other. It's great in the VN, but some things just work better on the page than they do animated. The Rin scene that happens simultaneously makes me agree with the thread title though
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Nov 19, 2019 21:57
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Yeah you might be right. You could definitely make a fight like Shirou vs Archer compelling in a live-action film so there's probably a way to make it decent in an anime too. The show definitely could stand to be shorter. It didn't help that they wanted to make a sequel to Zero too (I assume) so you wound up with an Ilya episode even though she doesn't matter at all.
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Nov 19, 2019 22:30
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the real question is, once the heavens feel movies are all done, are we going to get a far side tsukihime film it can come out simultaneously to help promote the remake this will definitely happen
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Nov 20, 2019 17:56
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Rody One Half posted:I really like the last stardust scene in the Archer fight. The Archer fight is too long. My only complaint with the Gil fight is that they should have synched up the action when Shirou is reciting the spell with the music better
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Nov 20, 2019 20:51
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me, describing this discussion: "don't go in. it's hell in there"
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Nov 21, 2019 00:06
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I think F/SN is just awkward because UBW is commentary on Fate, and HF is commentary on UBW. Like the whole reason Shinji and Sakura are handled so weirdly in the second route is to make the third route, where Shirou actually fights to save Sakura from her horrible position, more affecting, right? And similarly Fate doesn’t really interrogate how bonkers Shirou’s dream is because that’s what UBW is about. I don’t think every VN is like that, although tbh my experience with them isn’t that broad. But for example, you can adapt Arcueid’s route like the Tsukihime manga does without the story looking incomplete.
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Nov 21, 2019 01:38
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Next AU show should be a detective story where Shirou and Kirei solve magic crimes
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Nov 21, 2019 05:27
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It’s an easy mistake to make to think that “dark Sakura” is effectively a different personality than the real Sakura. Several characters make that mistake, IIRC, within the story itself. They just happen to be wrong.
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Nov 21, 2019 05:49
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Endorph posted:Shinji's clearly kind of a confused character writing wise. He's meant to be Saionji from Utena., which matches pretty 1:1, but the issue is with Saionji the worst he ever does is smack Anthy and be a petty, jealous rear end in a top hat. Which is bad but it's not sexual assault or trying to murder a bunch of people. Shinji simultaneously has to fulfill the roles of Shirou's pitiable friend who let his worst impulses get the better of him because he grew up in an awful environment and also total shithead piling even more awful stuff onto Sakura, and also he has to kickstart a couple of kind of gratuitous sexual assault scenes. I can get the one in HF, but the one with Rin in UBW is totally needless. It almost feels like Sakura originally had two brothers and they got combined into one character, or something. This sounds about right. In the story of UBW you're clearly meant to feel bad for Shinji even though he spends the whole plot doing bad things; he's out of his depth, and in a weird way kind of innocent. But after HF it's impossible to forgive Shinji or not want bad things to happen to him, and even earlier it's really unclear why Shirou is friends with him. This is sort of what I meant when I said HF is commentary on UBW; the climax of UBW winds up being Rin tops off a life of doing nothing to help Sakura by heroically saving her sister's abuser. So when somebody is reading HF, they're going to be thinking "wow, this outcome is much better than the UBW one". Nasu also uses the threat of women being sexually assaulted too much in his stories I think. It's the main flaw I have to overlook to enjoy them. It's one thing when he writes characters who have a past of sexual abuse, which means the story is kind of about that to a certain extent. But I think stuff like the scene with Rin and Shinji, the Saber wedding dress, or Gilgamesh's fairly explicit rape threats in Fate are just gratuitous and exploitative.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:06
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That's actually really relieving to hear, thanks.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:02
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The real question is which ending they're gonna adapt Not that there's really any question, they don't have the guts to do it 
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Nov 27, 2019 01:15
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It’s been awhile, but iirc in UBW Rin asks some really suspicious questions to Shirou about what it’s like to be adopted. I don’t remember picking up on them at the time but I think a motivated reader could have put two and two together. And yeah adapting the normal end of HF would not actually be a good idea.
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Nov 27, 2019 04:15
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Did anybody else think Rin was fuckin dead at the end of fate the first time they played it, or am I the only one that dumb?
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Dec 1, 2019 03:27
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yeah I know but like rin says a lot of things. and most of them are wrong
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Dec 2, 2019 18:19
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lol at that list having two main categories, "visual novels" and "Trails games"
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Dec 6, 2019 17:41
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What Fate really needs is some sort of story to fill in the gaps between the two Holy Grail wars of Zero and FSN. Specifically, a comedy about Kirei blundering away the Tohsaka inheritance, teaching ten year old Rin Chinese martial arts for some reason, practicing cooking together, and other such nonsense. It’s actually surprising how much Rin seems to have been influenced by Kirei, given that there’s no love lost between them. I guess she was probably more impressionable when she was younger.
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Dec 7, 2019 05:21
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I'm surprised Nasu has never gone back to the well of alternate FSN routes. I guess it's a bit of a barren field just because he already put the best ideas in the game, but I think there's lots of stuff you could do with the setup. A Shirou route with Rin as the protagonist could be really compelling I think although you'd need to make sure it wasn't just UBW again; Rin has a fun enough voice to carry a game. A route where Caster is an ally is also a good idea. Comedy option is a Burn After Reading route where Shirou is killed by Berserker and everything just goes to poo poo immediately
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Dec 11, 2019 03:15
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The best animated Fate media is actually the VN's nonsense bonus videos
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Dec 24, 2019 21:18
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Wish Fate ripped off A Once and Future King, I want to see Saber turn into an goose for the exciting crossover sequel to Untitled Goose Game
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Jan 27, 2020 04:27
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Er, I’m pretty sure Hercules is a god?
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Jan 28, 2020 05:00
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I don’t know why I remember this clearly, but Gilgamesh’s divinity isn’t important because he doesn’t respect the gods himself. I think this only comes up on his stat board and not in the actual story, which makes sense because no one involved really cares.
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Jan 28, 2020 06:12
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Yeah like, when people talk about Nasu making their head hurt, the moon is a really really good example of why My favorite example of this is "Conceptual Weapons," a special class of weapon with an unclear definition which, as far as I know, has only come up because Ciel was confused about Tohno Shiki's knife.
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Feb 17, 2020 22:50
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Hmm, can I read the spoilers if I watched KnK 10 years ago and don't remember any of it except that Ryougi Shiki is cool
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Feb 20, 2020 00:08
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I’m pretty sure Fate was destined for that image as soon as the first entry in the series, a dating sim with explicit sex scenes, was published.
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Feb 26, 2020 03:10
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I think you could make a good live-action film from Hisui’s route.
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Aug 31, 2020 22:59
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I’m not going to lie: I didn’t think it really had a chance, but I’m still (hf end) a little disappointed they didn’t go with the normal ending.
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Sep 5, 2020 04:14
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OnimaruXLR posted:I got to poking around about Tsukihime's story (in lieu of reading it, because who has that kind of time) and is Kohaku's route as horrible as the broad plot summary details make it sound? The Worst Writing and Most Heinous Misogyny Tsukihime is what it is, and what it is is a visual novel that includes goofy sex tropes. It also deals with serious, dark themes, including sexual violence, and the juxtaposition is sometimes awkward. I liked Kohaku’s route and think it’s good but your mileage may vary.
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Dec 24, 2020 06:12
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I always figured The Once and Future King was canonical to Fate.
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Jan 12, 2021 23:43
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Dr Pepper posted:I'm pretty sure it's mostly using Le Morte d'Arthur as its base. this is definitely and obviously true but I just like the idea of arturia turning into an ant to learn important lessons about authoritarianism ok
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Jan 13, 2021 05:22
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There’s a detailed explanation, of course, but I don’t think as a reader you’re really supposed to understand how exactly (HF) Shirou survives. It’s a miracle: an unparalleled work of magic made possible by Illya’s nature and her expertise. The doll thing is a cute reference, but I think it’s supposed to come out of nowhere: narratively it’s what Illya does that’s important. Actually, that raises another question for me. The power of the Holy Grail is fundamentally corrupt, right? When it “grants wishes” or “offers power”, it do so in a malevolent, destructive way. It is impossible to use it for good: That’s the conclusion Kiritsugu comes to, and I don’t think we have any reason to doubt he’s correct. But at the end of HF, Ilya uses the power of the Grail to save Shirou, an act of benevolence driven by deep familial love. So what’s the deal? I always figured Illya was making use of the ambient power in the big Grail to perform sorcery— is that not the case, and she could have done it anywhere if she needed to?
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Apr 8, 2021 04:57
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In fairness, it's a tall order to make eyes dramatic enough to support her scenes. It wouldn't be enough on its own to let Rider look down on the other Servants. A Noble Phantasm has to be something that lets the one who has it tower over others, at least when it's at its peak. It's a high bar.
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Apr 14, 2021 02:00
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AlternateNu posted:Isn't that basically what Blood Fort is? It's just her mystic eyes in the form of a bounded field. It's just she's usually nerf'd by having Shinji as a proxy master, so it's basically never seen at full power. What I’m trying to get at here is that Rider is very tall.
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Apr 14, 2021 03:25
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there are a lot of lines in fate featuring people being callous jerks at the worst times, but archer's trojan horse joke still sticks in my mind
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Apr 14, 2021 05:01
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There’s no reason Caster and her master couldn’t have just skipped out on the whole Grail War and gone abroad while the thing was still running, right? That was always my assumption, and I like it thematically: had Medea been able to really be honest with Kuzuki about what she wanted, and if he had clearly communicated his desires in return, they could have survived the war. But instead she risks everything fighting for a prize she doesn’t need and Kuzuki doesn’t care about. In the end, they both die senselessly. Fate/stay night raises the idea that Medea and Kuzuki are somehow mismatched in personality, which makes sense with this reading of events.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:56
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I just watched The Green Knight. Good movie! Is the story of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight ever referenced in any of the Fate deuterocanon? I don’t think Saber ever mentions it in FSN.
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Aug 24, 2021 18:34
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they should put arihiko in melty blood Also thanks for the info on Gawain, it’s too bad. I feel like I could easily see the Green Knight fitting into Fate.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:08
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I wonder what Arthurian stuff Nasu has read. When I first read FSN, I definitely got the impression that he had read The Once and Future King. The idea that the king is separate from and above their knights appears in both stories; certainly Fate shows Arthur having a deep love for their kingdom and their knights, and says that it’s incredibly sad that the position of king meant that none of their knights ever really realized that. But maybe that’s all in Le Morte d’Arthur, the original work, which I haven’t read. I think he’s read something, though.
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Sep 5, 2021 23:57
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