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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

The Lost struggles with greed mode and mega Satan, but outside of that I think he's the strongest character. 'Get hit no more than once a room' isn't that much of a challenge, and flight and spectral tears are as powerful a defensive combination as you can get. Add on the ability to take every devil deal so that you're almost guaranteed to be an offensive powerhouse, and I can't remember the last time I had a Lost run that wasn't horribly broken. Though sometimes you do just get unlucky in a way you can't with the other characters.

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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I think it jams less in Greedier, but also jam chance is per character, so while that sounds very unlucky you'll have better luck not using one character to do it all.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

The keeper is not cool, nor something someone interested in enjoying themselves should be persuing.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Is anyone else having issues with the holy mantle not refreshing? It's taking two room transitions instead of one for me to come back. Playing on Linux, fwiw.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Id be comfortable saying holy mantle is the strongest item in the game. gently caress this Delirium / Greedier with the lost though.

gently caress Greedier in general.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Rollersnake posted:

I'm around 58% now. What's going to be the hardest challenge the game has in store for me? Hard mode Hush with The Lost and Keeper? Something worse I haven't considered yet?

Edit: Actually, going by my experience so far, it's easier to get to Hush in time on a hard mode run than it is to get to Boss Rush.

Greedier Lost/Keeper.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Keeper gets bonus money and a massive amount of effective HP in Greedier Mode, so it's not too bad. Lost is harder but you at least get a bunch of devil deals and can stop the waves at any point you feel in danger for free.

It's fine until you get to Ultra Greed, but Ultra Greed is just a slog.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Rollersnake posted:

It guess it would be to my benefit to bother to remember what any of the dice besides the D6 actually do.

D6: break the game
D20: break the game
Others: range from suck to even worse

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I don't think I've thought about Isaac's graphics as any more than game pieces since like, two hours after I played the first one.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

that ivy guy posted:

God speed gamer. My sincerest condolences to those who complete all three save files manually

I had never before now considered that someone might have done that... :(

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Lost + holy mantel is the strongest character I feel. Not getting hit twice in a room isn't the biggest ask, and getting to take every devil deal is such a huge power boost, though finding the goat head makes a big difference here. Except of course when it was bugged and holy mantel didn't always refresh between rooms.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

It's very nice for Lost, but I've never felt that flight / ladder are anywhere near as important as in Issac 1. In that game they're nigh-essential, in this one its more just annoying when I forget I don't have them and run into a wall, but I don't feel hindered by their abscence.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Lol, over 300 hours between the two.

My life is a joke.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I said it before, I'll say it again, EtG is a bullet hell masquerading as a twin stick, Nuclear Throne is a twin stick, and Issac is some weird dual d-pad thing with some design cues lifted from Zelda 1.

I couldn't get into EtG, whereas I quite enjoy NT even if I haven't beaten it, and clearly I love me some Issac. I think the problem I have with EtG is that the format makes we want to play it like it's not a bullet hell, when it very much is. Or maybe I just don't like bullet hells.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Carpator Diei posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure a trap door that leads to a 2d room or the black market will always have a ladder, while one that leads to the next floor has no ladder; so saving those for the end should not be necessary.

Yup.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Waffle! posted:

Would going for Boss Rush to Hush and/or Chest give the most chances you could find the items you're looking for?

Breaking Greed probably.

Ariong posted:

I think Greed mode is plenty fun. Greedier mode less so, but you onky have to complete one Greedier run per character, right?

Not even! As long as you can accept the unlocks aren't worth it. I've got like 4 characters that still need greedier and it just ain't gonna happen.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Yeah with only red I'd rather boss first. Fewer chances for something to go wrong.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Better, but iirc not as good as a no-hit. Much like all the bad items that proc on taking damage, don't get hit. A 33% chance is no where near as good ad the 100% that you can get from not taking damage vs the boss.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Magdalene is tough, being slow is one of the worst things possible and an extra heart and a nifty-but-not-amazing held item in no way compensate. But it's just variance.

Not taking pills is probably the right play, but it's also a boring one.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Also firey basement sucks. If I was still playing regularly I'd probably find some way to mod it out.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

The game is some degree of easier if you only unlock the good runes. I didn't do it on purpose but when half your runes are Jera it's very nice.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Wildtortilla posted:

What causes my tears to be deflected away from enemies sometimes?

The champion type that flashes grey does that.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

The Moon Monster posted:

Good game design = more complex/difficult. Eternal Edition is actually the best version of BoI tbqh.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Y'all've got me finishing up the challenges I never completed. I thought I was done with this game...

Still not finishing my greedier marks though. No way.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Lost two Guardian runs in womb 2 while carrying a Bible. That little dipshit has no sense of self-preservation.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Down to just Ultra Hard. This is gonna be a slog.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Ariong posted:



Can someone explain why I have a 0% chance at a devil room in Basement 2?

You were already in the boss room, right? If it ever doesn't spawn, such as after leaving it, it won't spawn again that floor.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Boss rush takes some hustle, you can hit Hush playing reasonably thoroughly but it can be close if your damage isn't there.

Hush itself doesn't need the best setup to beat, it's mostly about learning the patterns.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

PostNouveau posted:

It's not too tough to beat. You may want to do it underpowered a few times just to learn the patterns. I mean it's a slog more in that an OP build will take like 90 seconds and it could be like 10 goddamn minutes with a regular build.

This, is a perfectly fair point.

Though I think I've only had one or two runs broken enough to completely overwhelm Hush's damage reduction.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Super Greed probably

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Ultra Hard? More like Ultra Chump.

Book of Rev + Judas's Shadow on floor one, kidney stone floor 2 carried me through mom, picked up brimstone after and tore through the rest.

That was tedious.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

The secret there is that greed mode just isn't good. And runs of bad luck happen, but mostly the former.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I can't think of anything that sounds like a buzzer. Are you sure it's the game?

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

It's been said before, but it really can't be said enough: Keeper sucks nards.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Really just up his firing rate a bit. The health thing is a pain but manageable, he's just a slog to play.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Just had a real nice Keeper run with loads of defense (Mask, Shield, Piggy bank) and good attack, but I was 3 minutes too slow for Hush and no Void portal spawned after. I got all the completion marks before afterbirth+, so all I've got left to Keep on is Delirium and Ultra Greedier.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Despite being a shameless nard sucker, Keeper is pretty good with tech x. Get to Delerium no problem, take damage as soon as he spawns, grab a coin, he turns into mama gurdy, get hit by the spikes, he turns into mom, get hit by the explosion before the foot lands. Fight didn't even last 30 seconds.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Wildtortilla posted:

Whew, that's welcome news.

Next question: is there a way to tell which non-rock blocks contain secrets? Like mushrooms, skulls, pots, etc.?

Nope.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Greenplastic posted:

Now I have to do two of the worst achievements. Increase size 3 times and consume 5 gulp! pills in one run. The strategies I have figured out are:

- Hold R with lazarus until I spawn with a gulp! or size up pill, then play and try to find more, as well as look for Placebo in the shop.
- Look for a blank card and use it with a strength card in boss rush, or with batteries from the shop.

Both are horribly tedious. Anyone know any others?

Go infinite in greed mode with a pill for sale?

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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

As has been discussed at length, the swallowed penny doesn't make Keeper invincible. The swallowed penny and greeds gullet does though. That's every completion mark and challenge done, now just 13 items away from 1001% that I probably won't bother with. Thanks for inspiring me to come back to the game Wildtortilla, I thought I was done with it but there was still plenty of fun to be had.

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