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Been doing kendo for some 15 years, recently started Katori Shinto Ryu as well and did some modern fencing (foil and tiny bit of sabre) years ago. In the last couple of years I've wanted to pick up modern fencing again, but don't have the time.
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Jan 8, 2015 21:22
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Zeitgueist posted:I have been studying historical fencing for a couple of years off and on because I'm a meganerd and it's a fun hobby, and mostly am going to lurk the thread, glad to see it here though. Ridley Scotts 'The Duellists' does it best. Having said that, I don't really get bothered by bad swordplay in movies...lifes too short for that.
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Jan 9, 2015 01:23
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Verisimilidude posted:and in kendo as well (at least from what I know watching tournament videos of the latter). In kendo it seems like they just ignore it and keep going No you don't. The official stance is that there is no such a thing as simultaneous hits and one will always hit first. If no point is scored, it's because neither attack is deemed good enough. They implemented similar (but less strict) policy for sabre fencing at the London Olympics to discourage people using it as a defensive tactic, something which upset quite a few of the Sabre fencers and made the whole thing much more interesting to watch. As for the 'suicidal' atttacks, it's very common in the early stages. In kendo and JSA in general, the concept of 'sutemi', which translates to something varying between 'attacking with reckless abandon' and 'throwing your life away', refers to attacking without caring for your own life. The basic concept of that is that if are worrying about getting hit, you will not attack freely and then increase the likely of your attack failing and then getting hit. This is primarily taught through 'kakari-geiko' which is a method of practice, where you continuously attack your partner, regardless if they attack you or not. In a similar vain, there is no concept 'blocking' in kendo. There's counter-techniques, but no blocks. Now, back to suicidal attacks. Again, these are very common in the early stages, as people are encouraged to attack, but don't know what an opening looks like. Through repeated practice, you will develop the eye/mind for it and because you have always been taught to attack, your attacks, when you do attack, have a much higher chance of success.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:27
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Zeitgueist posted:Stabbychat: Do you think that separating tournaments by gender is an appropriate thing to do in fencing? What about a woman's tournament and a unisex tournament both as an option? It is in kendo for most tournaments in the adult categories. While it's mostly a technical discipline, strength and speed are still significant factors.
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Jan 15, 2015 01:40
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Zeitgueist posted:Strength doesn't seem to come into play as the swords are only a couple of pounds. Without even taking the sword into account (it's only 500grams in kendo), men are faster. Pounds for pound, men can generate more force, can accelerate faster and generate higher speeds.
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Jan 15, 2015 02:22
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Zeitgueist posted:I'm not dealing with athletes in top physical condition though. No, but with all other things being equal, the men will win. So, if you are having a tournament and the idea is to make skill the key determining factor in who wins, then you need to segregate the genders. Now, I've competed in anything from tiny local competitions to big internationals* and typically the smaller comps will be mixed and as they grow and have enough female competitors to make it worthwhile to have a separate category, so it really depends on what you are trying to achieve with the tournament. *And yeah, I've been beaten by women too.
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Jan 15, 2015 03:00
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Zeitgueist posted:I agree if we were talking a developed sport with a high tier of people all at roughly the same level, like olympic fencing, minor physiological differences would probably come into play but I don't think the community is anywhere near there. Just take a look at these two videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC1O2zoc2II https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrNUXXdfS4A The men are clearly faster, move better and have way faster weapon speed. In kendo this is somewhat compensated for with the women being allowed to use a lighter shinai. As for height/reach: A taller opponent can hit you before you can hit him. Now, in general, this is something that can be overcome with skill and tactics and there's been several famous 'short' kendo players, so it's by no means a deciding factor.
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Jan 15, 2015 19:22
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Zeitgueist posted:I don't feel that "move better" is a gender-based thing, I think that's footwork training and technique, and I can't imagine there's a specific biometric reason men would "move better. I was referring specifically to the 2 videos I posted.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:46
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I had my first kendo practice yesterday after breaking my foot back in August. I'm now fat(ter) & slow(er) and can't breathe. Sensei apologized for not putting me in the 'competitors' group, but frankly, I was very very grateful.
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Jan 18, 2015 08:50
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My biggest gripe is when practicing counter attacks and the partner doesn't really attack. After a couple of those 'attacks', I usually just lower my guard and let them hit the air in front of me, which usually gets the point across. Yes, seniors will often not complete the attack in order to let more inexperienced people have a chance at completing the counter, but if you are practicing with any one near (or above) your own level, you need to attack properly. Otherwise the exercise is pointless.
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Jan 19, 2015 22:20
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Siivola posted:I absolutely don't want to poo poo on you guys' teaching methods, but without contex it sounds like you're really close to teaching to fail. This is more or less the standard pedagogy in kendo. However, the teacher will hit the student a lot more! It's probably a 5-1 ratio the other way around. It's also worth bearing in mind that kendo also relies on the students learning from being hit. When you get hit, it means that you did something wrong. It is also very very important to make them not fearing to get hit and attack without fear of getting countered. For more inexperienced students, I will give them clear opportunities to attack. If they don't attack, I will hit them. Rinse, repeat and it will usually click. Occasional I'll stop and ask why they're not attacking, but in general I dislike lecturing in the middle of a practice. I'll let any decent attack from them go in, so that you are rewarding the correct attacks and denying the not-so-correct. These articles are kendo specific and may include too many kendo terms, but it describes the philosophies of 'how to practice with X' quite well. http://www.kendo.org.uk/articles/attitudes-to-ji-geiko/
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Feb 4, 2015 03:55
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El Spamo posted:Arms may be long, but blades are the same length so you always have the same distance to cover to reach their hand. This assumes that you are always within hitting distance. The person with the longer reach will have a distance where he/she can hit the other opponent and the opponent can't hit him/her. This is a significant advantage.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:54
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Zeitgueist posted:The Phoenix society of Historical Swordsmanship(out of Arizona, of course), doing an educational demo. And it highlights the biggest issue I have with self-taught Historical fencing: Terrible footwork.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:00
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Zeitgueist posted:FWIW, I was always taught that your feet should follow your hands/arms.
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Feb 9, 2015 23:54
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Zeitgueist posted:Nice video, and it matches with what I've been taught. Sorry, that is unmitigated bullshit. His hands suddenly became 3 times slower, when he used the foot first? And when he moved his hand first, his feet suddenly became fast enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0LpsnO0E4U @ 6:45 Take a look at any sport, boxing, baseball, tabletennis, weightlifting and the body mechanics behind it and you'll see that this guy is full of crap. It also completely contradicts his point (which is correct) - Hands are faster than the feet So in order to deliver an attack at maximum speed & power, you need to start with the feet first and then the hands. Again, this is body mechanics 101 and in no way unique to any specific style of fencing. ScratchAndSniff posted:The hips aren't as important for us, since we use the back leg to generate power/speed. My legs are connected to my hip...don't know about yours...
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Feb 10, 2015 20:20
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El Spamo posted:
And they're moving their feet first to attack..... 
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Feb 10, 2015 22:37
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Crazy Achmed posted:Brutal. The scoring system sounds fair, though, considering what you're trying to achieve. What ways do people try to game the system, out of curiosity? It seems to have just enough subjectivity built into it to weed out that sort of stuff (kendo is similar in this respect, too, isn't it?) I think it helps that there's a very distinct difference between historical Japanese sword arts and kendo, which is by and large, a modern invention, albeit descended from the historical arts. This is not to say that there isn't a subsection who wants to make kendo more modern and sporty (The Koreans, especially, wants to see kendo in the Olympics, which would require a rather large change for that to happen) and then there's also groups who thinks kendo has strayed too far away from it's historical roots. Regardless, it's a martial arts in it's own rights and in terms of competitions, has a very good balance. Like modern fencing, it can be practiced at full speed, without any real safety concerns and by restriction the selection of valid targets, they have increased the skill level required to be successful. However, kendo competitions only really make sense to people who practice kendo. The definitions of what's a point and what isn't, are hard to discern for the outsider. Historical Japanese sword arts don't compete at all. In fact, aside from 1 or 2 they don't even spar (and those who do, do it in a kendo like manner). The standard of refereeing can be an issue in areas with relatively low kendo population. Here on the West Coast, it's pretty good in local & regional comps. When I was living the UK, it was pretty poor and the few I saw in the one year I lived in NZ, it was atrocious. At the international comps, they also struggle to keep up to the standard of the players and especially the world champs are bad. That reminds me, that I'll be refereeing the whole day tomorrow and need to iron my shirt when I get home :P.
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Feb 14, 2015 02:20
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Crazy Achmed posted:I won't argue about its effectiveness, but that footwork diagram looks like 17th century timecube. I would: Wikipedia article posted:Over time, Spanish fencing came to be increasingly influenced by Italian and French fencing methods. Pressure became particularly intense in the 18th century, and destreza began a decline in popularity in favour of the dominant French school. In kendo, the majority of the battle is over the center line. If you cannot get an opponent in middle guard to break his stance, he/she is virtually un-hittable. Granted a lot of this is due to the limited targets viable in kendo, but even in koryu, this still largely applies. Also in kendo, you are free to move laterally, yet it always distills into very linear movements, as it is extremely easy to to adjust your position to an opponent who moves sideways. He/she moves 2 feet you the side, you only need to adjust an inch or 2. Further, I always see opponent who steps to the side as being afraid of attacking me straight on and they are freely (at least initially) giving up the center line.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:08
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I'm thinking of doing an effort post on JSA for the OP...would anyone be interested in that?
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Mar 9, 2015 04:11
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Siivola posted:Guy Windsor's new book Swordfighting is out, in case you want to learn about the nerdiest fencing. Wasn't that the guy claiming you should move your hands first?
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Mar 16, 2015 18:08
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Siivola posted:Yes. Actually it was this guy I was thinking of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0LpsnO0E4U I know this is opening a can of worms, but this shows what happens when the line of transmission is broken. Any sport, any martial, anything where speed and/or power is needed will tell you to use the hips to generate it. I don't understand why these re-created European sword arts insist on ignoring that?
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Mar 16, 2015 21:37
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Buried alive posted:It seems like a lot of it has to do with the fact that a fair amount of the source material is dealing with the context of a duel with unarmored combatants. If you've got something sharp and you're hitting something soft, power matters way less in terms of being able to cause an injury. Yes, I heard that answer before and it's still wrong, as it's still slower and should you fail to disable the opponent, puts you in an unbalanced position. Again, boxers, baseball players, table tennis, modern fencing, you name it. The Warzecha video is laughable. He halves the distance between him and the girl and now states that he can't avoid, so moving the hand must be the fastest. His examples with the the strikes are so obviously tailored to fit his theory. It's a clear example of A) lack of competitive sparring B) direct transmission C) Geeks with poor understanding of body mechanics. Again, kendo, kenjutsu, fencing, boxing, karate, whathaveyou....speed/power is generated from the feet/hips first. And no, you don't telegraph your attack by doing so.
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Mar 17, 2015 02:04
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ScratchAndSniff posted:So wrong. Stop pretending you know what you are talking about just because you saw some youtube videos. Hand (typically) moves first in modern fencing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRJED1eCXww 0:40 it's in slo-mo. It's what I would call a typical lunging attacks and he moves his feet first. Zeitgueist posted:This is also easily testable. Try starting your swing with a longsword prior to moving your feet, and try it after your feet. Your timing will be consistently too slow if you lead with feet. I got 15 years+ of kendo experience, I have competed internationally (not very succesfully, mind you). I've done some iai and are now also doing Katori Shinto Ryu. None of these sword-arts, which has 400+ years of direct transmission, with about as recent real application as you get and none of them, none, would ever claim to move lead with your hands. Even in the static cuts, you are starting every movement with your hips first...this is bio-mechanics/sports science 101!.
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Mar 17, 2015 20:36
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Crossfit did wonders for my overall strength and stamina, so YMMV.
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Mar 24, 2015 23:11
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Crazy Achmed posted:drat, those guys are scary fast. Sorry for the FB link, but this Max Heinzer practicing at home. The footwork is insane! https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1098038493555844&fref=nf
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Apr 8, 2015 18:20
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Verisimilidude posted:Anyone who doesn't care about their own life can kill even an experienced fencer, which is why it's important to at least try and fence as if your life depends on it. Sutemi is an important and recurring concept in JSA. While often translated as "Throwing ones life away", it''s better translated as "Concentration and effort with all one’s might, even at the risk of death.". Judo has sutemi-waza, which translated as "sacrifice-throws". Fear is considered one of the 4 sickness, (Fear, surprise, doubt, hesitation) and is tied into that. If you are afraid of dying, you will hesitate in attacking freely and thus the risk of being defeated increases. So, the overall philosophy in JSA is often not to fight as if your life depended on it, but to be prepared to give up your life in order to defeat the opponent.
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Apr 26, 2015 11:25
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Nektu posted:Ahh yea, feudalism and its brainwashed warriors that lived to give their lives for their lords. The concept still works. If you are worried about being countered, your attack will often not be as strong, as one done with abandon.
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Apr 26, 2015 13:52
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The World Kendo Championships are taking place in Tokyo over the next 4 days and can be seen here: Ch1 (court 1)- https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f Ch2 (court 2)- https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f-ch2 Ch3 (court 3)- https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f-ch3 Ch4 (court 4) https://www.ustream.tv/channel/aj-kendo-f-ch4
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May 29, 2015 02:14
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Crazy Achmed posted:
The 'nudging' is called tsubazeriai. You are supposed to actively to be seeking an opportunity for a strike. However, it's a very neutral position. The rule is that if neither competitor is actively trying to get out, you will separate them after 10 seconds. If this happens repeatedly, you can give both fighters a warning and if it's only one side trying to hang out, you can give that fighter a warning (2 warnings = 1 point). While it was better enforced this year than it has previously, it still has some ways to go and the team final especially, was very poor. It kinda always is. The problem is partly that the best referees are the Japanese/Koreans, but as Japan/Korea are always in the final, they can't use those. There's 4 courts going at the same time...and no, you don't notice the other ones. ImplicitAssembler fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 18:17
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:So hey any of y'all seen this guy? 1v3? I call bullshit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEr8-O_gZ98 @4:31
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Jun 26, 2015 20:35
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ScratchAndSniff posted:I've always been confused at the whole "X amount of time before you spar" thing some places love to do. It's really more about maturity and following a few simple safety rules than actually being good. Different people grasp these things at different rates. It's about making sure that people have the basics down before they start hacking away at each other. Typically people will forget everything they've been taught the first (many) times in front of a 'live opponent'. In fact, often even just putting them in armor seems to be enough to make people forget. The dojo where I started was quite beginner friendly and you would typically be in armor and sparring within 3-4 months. Current one is a lot more old fashioned and it typically takes about a year. It may sound excessive, but given that kendo is considered a life long pursuit, it will build a much better foundation. For similar reasons, sparring in the beginning also only takes place against seniors. This means that they will be shown the correct way to do it.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:43
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thewireguy posted:Oh, mistakes definitely make a quicker impression that drilling. Take that from a newbie. No they don't. Take that from an instructor 
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Jun 30, 2015 23:02
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thewireguy posted:Don't get me wrong, I understand getting the fundamentals down first, I have done several martial arts. But getting your knuckles rapped is a big deterrent. You don't know why you are doing what you are doing at first. Pain is a great teacher. Pain can sometimes be a useful aid, but your time is much better spent doing drills. There's a reason that virtually every single martial art spend the majority of the time doing drills.
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Jul 1, 2015 01:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zuwh3j314U In kendo, it's situational. It requires an opponent that has soft hands (or relaxes at that moment). Way back, when I did foil (still a beginner), I was drilling with our main instructor and he kept telling me to grip the foil properly. He told me 3 times and then sent my foil flying across the room.
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Jul 11, 2015 21:07
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Verisimilidude posted:Here's a good article about why you should sometimes practice with sharp swords. https://chivalricfighting.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/why-you-should-train-with-sharp-swords-and-how-to-go-about-it-without-killing-anyone/ Except the reference to David Lowry is that he's commenting on iai practice (solo kata) and I have never heard of anyone using sharp swords for paired practice in JSA. It's simply too dangerous or you have to compromise too much to keep it safe, which is kinda perfectly illustrated in the earlier video.
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Jul 21, 2015 02:06
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ScratchAndSniff posted:I'm trying to replicate that "competition jitters" feeling. Pushups and stuff don't really work, since when I've tried it everyone just does a whole bunch to show off anyway, win or lose. Club tournaments are great, but can be hard to swing in smaller classes. Put them into 2 teams and punish the losing group. Whatever exercise you choose, make sure that they do it properly. (Push-ups with straight backs, chest to the ground, all the way up). Burpees *always* works as it's very hard to do short cuts on them. Nothing like a bit of peer pressure to make sure you win. Play winners stays. (1 touch/hit only). If you're cruel, play loser stays, but be aware of weaker players ego.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:34
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P-Mack posted:Great timing, we were just talking about bayonet combat in the military history thread. Did they demonstrate any bayonet vs sword techniques? There's some sparring here, but haven't been able to find any demonstration of the basics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0zYKYzTmRI (around 4:40) (Note, the kendo guy is not very good) ImplicitAssembler fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 01:54
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inscrutable horse posted:So I'm a huge nerd who's decided to pick up HEMA (longsword) to stave off cabin fever at my new job. I will be utterly alone (well, with 10 other people) on an island in the middle of nowhere for a year, with an embarrassing amount of free time. Considering that I'm an absolute beginner, how should I practice this stuff? I've been looking at various articles and fechtbücher on the net, and together with this thread, I get the idea that footwork and general fitness are vitally important, so that's something I'd like to know more about. But then there's stuff like stances/guards/whatever the terminology is - how much of that can I practice on my own? Is it actually feasible? And then there's the unknown unknowns that I don't even know to ask about! The HEMA guys might differ, but from a kendo stand point, you can't and you are more likely to teach yourself bad habits than teaching yourself anything useful. You're better off spending the time getting fit.
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Aug 12, 2015 22:29
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inscrutable horse posted:That sounds reasonable enough. So what kind of fitness training would you recommend? I've been hiking in the mountains since I was 6 or 7, so I'm reasonably fit, if not exactly an athlete, but I don't know how well that transfers to exercises that seem to favour quick, sharp motions. Any HIIT work. Trail running is good too, especially shorter loops where you can push yourself. You can diy a speed-ladder for footwork/speed drills. Barbell-work if you can (but being on an island with only other people that sounds unlikely). so look up body-weight exercises.
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Aug 12, 2015 23:40
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Han Feizi posted:Would anyone in the SoCal area be interested in a Jukendo study group? Even in Japan, it's extremely obscure...
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Aug 17, 2015 19:06
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