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Liam Emsa posted:So, did Flint intentionally feed him the information knowing that he'd attack the ship? I wonder what his plan was if they actually had listened to him. Yeah, he knowingly used reverse psychology on the guy, knowing that he'd do the exact opposite of what his advice was. Dufresne was too eager to prove he could lead, and it backfired spectacularly. The Plan B was probably never seriously thought out.
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Feb 2, 2015 07:08
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He knew all of the things that could wrong, told them the truth and left it to greed and hubris. His own hubris brought him down.
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Feb 2, 2015 07:24
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I would imagine that if Dufresne went the other direction, Flint would have called him out on it and taken command then and there with a rousing speech about how they were born to pirate or some such.
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Feb 2, 2015 07:59
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Captain Fly As gently caress 
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Feb 2, 2015 08:09
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I'm digging this show a lot, but god drat! They need a bit less of the Banshee style sex/violence and more straight up Master and Commander historical strategy bits. I would loving kill for a few more scenes per episode that were more about the history/strategy stuff. The tits and rear end and 6 pack abs are fine, I'm not saying remove them. Just use something other than "hot dude with eyeliner on" to keep us interested.
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Feb 2, 2015 08:46
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I am having a little hard time accepting that they would just accept the captain back so quickly, they were pretty close to killing him after all. So far this seasons seems to be much less boring Nasau politics, and much more pirating and fighting, which is a big improvement. This may sound silly, but having recently played Assassin's Creed 4, i have a much greater appreciation for the ship battles, and it was a large reason why i continued watching the show.
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Feb 2, 2015 10:52
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Pirates were a fickle bunch, Captains were only as good as their last success.
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Feb 2, 2015 11:07
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Oasx posted:I am having a little hard time accepting that they would just accept the captain back so quickly, they were pretty close to killing him after all. So far this seasons seems to be much less boring Nasau politics, and much more pirating and fighting, which is a big improvement. I'd say it is in "implausible" territory, but Flint did manage to orchestrate the capture of a Man o War and then they discovered that without his leadership they're just a bunch of random assholes that can tie knots pretty well...and then they all remember that their ship was sunk after they ignored his orders (which would have still likely gotten them sunk/killed). Did the Ranger get away, or were they also sunk and then combined with the Walrus crew?
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Feb 2, 2015 11:19
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Oasx posted:I am having a little hard time accepting that they would just accept the captain back so quickly, they were pretty close to killing him after all. So far this seasons seems to be much less boring Nasau politics, and much more pirating and fighting, which is a big improvement. Rocksicles posted:Pirates were a fickle bunch, Captains were only as good as their last success. Plus the last hunt went south literally because the guy was afraid of Flint. He even asked "are you captain Flint" before signaling his crew to fight. Then Flint was the only one to be able to make the call when it did go south. I mean, if you're stuck on that ship and your choice of Captain is ol' "can't take a surrendered prize" Duffy and "strikes fear into the hearts of sailors with his name" Flint, who are you going to vote for?
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Feb 2, 2015 11:20
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Pretty sure the Ranger was sunk, isn't that how he knew Gates was dead? Glasses is lucky he didn't get keel hauled. Or stuck on an island with one pistol shot.
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Feb 2, 2015 11:21
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Rocksicles posted:Pretty sure the Ranger was sunk, isn't that how he knew Gates was dead? He choked Gates to death. Edit: and that V Karma Comedian fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 11:24
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Rocksicles posted:Pretty sure the Ranger was sunk, isn't that how he knew Gates was dead? He knew he was dead because he broke his neck with his bare hands.
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Feb 2, 2015 11:25
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Yeah my mistake. i forgot about that that. I just rewatched it, you can see the Ranger sinking just before Flint is thrown overboard. Rocksicles fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 11:28
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Wizard of Smart posted:Plus the last hunt went south literally because the guy was afraid of Flint. He even asked "are you captain Flint" before signaling his crew to fight. Then Flint was the only one to be able to make the call when it did go south. That and they needed someone who was decisive and quick on his feet. Captain Glasses should have just shot the man the minute he was questioned.
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Feb 2, 2015 11:47
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Rocksicles posted:Yeah my mistake. i forgot about that that. Vane is going to be so happy that Flint took his ship from him and destroyed it. I need to watch this show from the beginning again. As I recall, a lot of the "Charles Vane is the bad guy" stuff seemed to be based on him trying to bring down Flint, who we now know to be a dick anyway. Regardless of how I feel about Flint/Vane, I would totally like Vane (with or without Guthrie's permission) to decide to take Flint's haul once he returns, only to see Flint sail into port with his extra-bigass warship. "Erm...nevermind"
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Feb 2, 2015 11:50
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Wouldn't a man-o-war even with its hundreds of cannons be utterly incapable of dealing with a stone-fort perched on a hill?
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Feb 2, 2015 12:07
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well it's effectively 40 something cannons rolling about on the waves, when the fort has an elevated position and a stable gun platform. Those things could fire well over a mile, accurately (for a cannon). Plus you need men to operate the ship. Henry Morgan captured 3 forts, i forget exactly where. But they took 2 of them with sword and musket, and the Spanish surrendered the last. To be fair though he had a fleet and men in the hundreds. Back when being a pirate was a government gig.
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Feb 2, 2015 12:16
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I now take back everything I said in the last thread about John Silver. Him and Flint make an amazing duo.
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Feb 2, 2015 15:20
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Xoidanor posted:Wouldn't a man-o-war even with its hundreds of cannons be utterly incapable of dealing with a stone-fort perched on a hill? Land batteries would generally gently caress up boats so they would attack them from land. Cat Hatter posted:Philip II spotted ITT. Joke's on you.I'm Phillip IV  SWAG
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Feb 2, 2015 15:21
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Xoidanor posted:Wouldn't a man-o-war even with its hundreds of cannons be utterly incapable of dealing with a stone-fort perched on a hill? If you're talking about Nassau, the costs would be enough that it would be hell, yeah. Taking out cannons on the beach guarding the wreck of the Urca De Lima would be easier but still costly. The Man-O-War that they captured has 94 guns apparently. Ships over 100 guns were exceedingly rare and basically only used as admiral's flagships. One of the things that pirates (and invasion forces) would find out about forts overlooking harbors is that the guns weren't maintained at all so they couldn't be manuevered to deal with moving ships. The British forces invading China in the Opium wars found that all of the gun emplacements guarding the ways into the Pearl River and the Yangtze had been so ill kept that they had effectively rusted into their emplacements. Cat Hatter posted:Did the Ranger get away, or were they also sunk and then combined with the Walrus crew? The Ranger went up in flames (and probably exploded) at the first real broadside from the Man-O-War. Funnily enough the Urca is a real wreck off the Florida coast and was the only ship in the treasure fleet en route to Spain to not actually carry gold or silver. The value of the prize the Walrus is going for on the Urca is roughly a quarter billion today. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 21:50
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Xoidanor posted:Wouldn't a man-o-war even with its hundreds of cannons be utterly incapable of dealing with a stone-fort perched on a hill? Probably, but it would be more likely to do a fair amount of damage before being destroyed that it might not be worth it. Besides, for all Vane knows, the full crews of the Walrus and Ranger are intact. I'm still wondering if they intend to use the ship as is or part it out to refit the pirate fleet. They did an entire episode about Flint needing to steal bigger guns and now he has enough to sell to every pirate in the area.
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Feb 3, 2015 00:34
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Cat Hatter posted:Probably, but it would be more likely to do a fair amount of damage before being destroyed that it might not be worth it. Besides, for all Vane knows, the full crews of the Walrus and Ranger are intact. I'm still wondering if they intend to use the ship as is or part it out to refit the pirate fleet. They did an entire episode about Flint needing to steal bigger guns and now he has enough to sell to every pirate in the area. I think he's gonna man it fully and sail right back to that beach with all 90 guns blazing.
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Feb 3, 2015 00:37
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That episode was loving fantastic.
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Feb 3, 2015 00:39
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Captain Jack Rackham, you're actually a pretty cool guy.
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Feb 3, 2015 01:21
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think he's gonna man it fully and sail right back to that beach with all 90 guns blazing. I was thinking about after his current mission was over, but forgot that by then he'd either be dead or have so much gold that he wouldn't really give a poo poo about his new ship. Now that I think about it, Flint coming back to Nassau might interfere a bit with Vane's plans to get back into Guthrie's Speaking of Guthrie, I know her position is somewhat unstable now that she doesn't have her father's legitimacy to cling to anymore and a lot of pirates didn't like her throwing her weight around by deposing Vane, but whats stopping her from putting a price on Ned Low's head? I'd imagine if a pirate was threatening a fellow pirate in the same way, it would be expected for one of them to kill the other. poo poo, most casual observers would assume the the person manning the fort was working for the island's owner anyway, so nobody would be really surprised if she just paid Vane and his men to go get rid of Ned (which she would probably do if Vane wasn't working the ex-boyfriend angle so hard). In my opinion, Eleanor Guthrie's options are: Easy way: chill at fort until Ned leaves for pirating then issue orders that his ship be sunk on sight should it return. Better way: Pay someone to kill Ned, put Ned's severed head on pike outside office or at docks as warning to the next person to try and threaten her. Most effective but dangerous way: Invite Ned into office and then surprise him with pistol(s) hidden under desk. Severed head on pike. Way show will probably go for: Some convoluted scheme involving Vane stealing Ned's white woman for himself that leads to a confrontation between the two. Probably complicated by Flint returning to port. Takes all season and doesn't involve Ned's head on a pike. I like the head pike options best because it would help explain to random pirates why they need to listen to her (especially if she kills Ned herself and then starts wearing pistols around town). "Oh, you want a better deal than the one I'm offering? Go ask Ned Low what happened when he tried to renegotiate by force."
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Feb 3, 2015 01:35
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Big Pimpin' - Jay-Z
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Feb 3, 2015 01:40
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Haven't watched second episode of S2 yet since I'm rewatching S1 but now I remember why I didn't remember anything, the plot moves so amazingly loving slow. Every episode from the first to the 5th has been 'this is our goal but here's a new problem' over and over and over. I don't know if it's better knowing that liked the first episode of S2 so much or worse because I remember in it that they hadn't even initiated taking the Urca in it. "Tits, fruit" made it all worth it though.
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Feb 3, 2015 02:49
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Kesper North posted:Captain Jack Rackham, you're actually a pretty cool guy. his sunglasses own too: 
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Feb 3, 2015 03:52
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etalian posted:his sunglasses own too: He's goddamn Humphrey Bogart. Hill of beans and all that. But with a cutlass.
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Feb 3, 2015 04:25
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It's strange how they didn't have the "manpower" to subdue the merchant galleon crew yet could man all 40+ guns on the port side to sink it.
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Feb 3, 2015 04:55
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wide stance posted:It's strange how they didn't have the "manpower" to subdue the merchant galleon crew yet could man all 40+ guns on the port side to sink it. Once the cannon are actually loaded and in place you really just need something to light the fuse if you're close enough that you can't miss. It's the moving a ton of metal back into place that takes a gun crew. Most ships would just surrender to pirates if possible while they were flying the black unless they thought they had a good chance of winning. It's when the red flags went out that they were screwed (red flags meant no quarter). Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 05:26
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I can't imagine needing all your cannons if they're all sixteen pounders when your adversary is within spitting distance and a hell of a lot smaller than you, but all I know about cannons is they're neat and loud so I could be horribly mistaken 
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Feb 3, 2015 05:35
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The cannon weights generally went 6, 8, 9 (long nines, as they were called, were used as chase guns), 12, 18, and 24. 24s were only really used on ships of the line because of their massive weight at the time of the show. 32s and 36s were trotted out only in the bottom rows of rated ships because if they were up higher the balance of the ship became precarious, and were pretty rare because of the bronze needed to make them. Only the French used the 36 pounders. A side effect of everybody switching to iron cannon was that when they were shot out it became cheaper to stick them in the ground as bollards instead of recycling them as with the bronze pieces.
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Feb 3, 2015 06:05
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One of the cannons they found on the wreck of the Queen Anne's Revenge, weighed 3,000lb's. probably less minus all the ocean life stuck to it. That's a spicy meatball when there would of been a lot of them, they said it only fired 6lb shot. 24lber's were about 5,000lb each weren't they?
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Feb 3, 2015 06:21
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Party Plane Jones posted:The cannon weights generally went 6, 8, 9 (long nines, as they were called, were used as chase guns), 12, 18, and 24. 24s were only really used on ships of the line because of their massive weight at the time of the show. 32s and 36s were trotted out only in the bottom rows of rated ships because if they were up higher the balance of the ship became precarious, and were pretty rare because of the bronze needed to make them. Only the French used the 36 pounders. Neat! I just went with 16 from what Flint was saying before suggesting they take the ship. 
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Feb 3, 2015 06:30
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It depends on if they were bronze or iron. Bronze guns were lighter because they could be made thinner due to the strength of the metal versus iron. Bronze guns were also better because they lasted longer, and if they failed, they burst instead of detonating in a cloud of shrapnel. Anybody who had bronze cannon was showing off their riches though because the cost of the bronze usually dwarfed the cost of the actual ship; the ship La Belle carried 4 bronze cannon as cargo which were worth more than the ship itself when it was wrecked off the coast of Texas. Iron cost £18 a ton, bronze cost £150 a ton. Small wonder why bronze was recycled at incredible rates.  is a good table of what each piece generally weighed. If each of the 90 or so guns on the Man-o-War was a bronze 12 pound piece they could have sold them off for £25,000, or the equivalent of $3 million today. Considering the lifetime wage of a pirate was around £1,000 that's no chump change. All you ever needed to know about cannon. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 06:41
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Ya when you watch the scene where they empty the cannons into the merchant ship they don't all go off at once, there's a noticeable delay between each of the shots when they do the camera angle that shows both ships.
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Feb 3, 2015 06:43
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I think I completely blanked out on what happened to Billy  Is he the one that got crushed to death by the ship that took Randall's legs?
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Feb 3, 2015 07:10
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SA2K posted:I think I completely blanked out on what happened to Billy He's the one that fell into the stormy ocean off-screen with the implication that Flint shivved him.
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Feb 3, 2015 07:16
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 10:58 |
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Party Plane Jones posted:The cannon weights generally went 6, 8, 9 (long nines, as they were called, were used as chase guns), 12, 18, and 24. 24s were only really used on ships of the line because of their massive weight at the time of the show. 32s and 36s were trotted out only in the bottom rows of rated ships because if they were up higher the balance of the ship became precarious, and were pretty rare because of the bronze needed to make them. Only the French used the 36 pounders. I thought all 94 gun ships were all second rates of the line. So they'd definitely have the larger cannons?
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Feb 3, 2015 07:42
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