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Chille Tid
Feb 12, 2015


Kai Tave posted:

^^^Yeah aight, fair enough.

Actually that raises a legit question, who are the prominent (or even not so prominent) female voices and publishers in the OSR? I know that at least one of Zak's gaming groups is largely made up of women but whenever I hear someone listing off the major OSR designers and bloggers like James Raggi, Kasimir Urbanski, James Maliszewski, Alexander Macris, etc. it's just a long list of dudes. I'm genuinely curious, are there any major female bloggers or OSR game publishers out there?

There are two I know of. I think they might be trans but I've not cared enough/been creepy enough to find out. monstermanualsewnfrompants.blogspot.com and rachelghoulgamestuff.blogspot.com

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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

World-changing power, absolutely no side effects!

Chille Tid posted:

There are two I know of. I think they might be trans but I've not cared enough/been creepy enough to find out. monstermanualsewnfrompants.blogspot.com and rachelghoulgamestuff.blogspot.com

Easiest rule to avoid wandering into unpleasantness: trans women are just women unless that's integral to the discussion.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Chille Tid posted:

There are two I know of. I think they might be trans but I've not cared enough/been creepy enough to find out. monstermanualsewnfrompants.blogspot.com and rachelghoulgamestuff.blogspot.com

Thanks, I figured there had to be someone out there. Rachel Ghoul's blog seems pretty cool on a quick read.

Chille Tid
Feb 12, 2015


Bruceski posted:

Easiest rule to avoid wandering into unpleasantness: trans women are just women unless that's integral to the discussion.

Oh. I've been chewed out for not using trans before that's why I said it. Forgive my ignorance.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

World-changing power, absolutely no side effects!

Chille Tid posted:

Oh. I've been chewed out for not using trans before that's why I said it. Forgive my ignorance.

Unfortunately it's one of those things that people tend to be rather picky about (understandably, labels matter) but not everyone is picky the same way. The folks I know do it that way so I try follow their lead, but it was probably overstepping to correct someone else.

potatocubed
Jul 26, 2012

"Tiger tiger doing what?"



Chille Tid posted:

monstermanualsewnfrompants.blogspot.com and rachelghoulgamestuff.blogspot.com

I skimmed the first one and, like, the third thing I saw was a woman whose womb "violently prolapses" into a barbed stinger.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Its almost impossible to overstate the grog fear of women.

Sailor Viy
Aug 4, 2013

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Ronwayne posted:

Its almost impossible to overstate the grog fear of women.

That blog is written by a woman.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Well then I guess there's a different chain of events that resulted in girl bits firing inside out like the fist of an insectoid god?

Sailor Viy
Aug 4, 2013

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Serious question, why do you all have such an aversion to crazy womb monsters? I get that you think its sexist but I just can't fathom the logical leap from "a person made up a feminine monster" to "that person hates/fears women IRL". I can definitely get behind the push against surprise sex stuff in gaming because surprise sex is something that really affects people and it can be hurtful to them when it's trivialised. But stuff like the prolapsed womb ia harmless and although you might personally not like it i think its very cool.

Idk, I guess I am irritated because IMO Scrap Princess is one of the best RPG writers I have ever read and it sucks to have her work dismissed because you read one thing that squicks you out. Try reading her post on reinterpreting the traditional D&D classes and races, that is an absolute classic.

Dulkor
Feb 28, 2009



Sailor Viy posted:

Serious question, why do you all have such an aversion to crazy womb monsters? I get that you think its sexist but I just can't fathom the logical leap from "a person made up a feminine monster" to "that person hates/fears women IRL". I can definitely get behind the push against surprise sex stuff in gaming because surprise sex is something that really affects people and it can be hurtful to them when it's trivialised. But stuff like the prolapsed womb ia harmless and although you might personally not like it i think its very cool.

I can't speak for others (and I'm both a lib arts graduate and currently under the influence of dayquil, so take anything I say with a grain of salt), but my personal aversion stems from the fact media doesn't exist in a vacuum. The surrounding context of these monsters is usually coming from some level of systemic sexism, whether that's as simple as just making an 'other' for the group to rally against or continuing to use tropes or cultural standards that are damaging to a gender (see sex monsters that only show up as sexy ladies as a trap for male adventurers as one example).

I haven't had a chance to look at that blog in particular, but anything involving monsters and reproductive organs is already getting into iffy territory even if written with the best of intentions in TTG spaces. Either due to outright squick factor and demonization of sex (like weaponized womb creatures), rampant abuse of surprise sex tropes (see any time half orcs come up in grog context or poo poo like fimirs in the old WFRP books), or tropes that use the fear of the consequences of sex, typically reframed to be at the male (the surprise father trope, most recently demonstrated in the Numenera succubi monster that literally gave birth to monsters whose main motivation was kill their dad).

So while it's not something I'd ever say 'no, no one can do this EVAR' to, it's an area where so many people in this hobby fall so flatly on their faces with that I'm inherently very skeptical of it. And then there's the section of the community the product is getting handed to being terrible with it regardless of what the creator meant as a further twist on top of that.

But that's just me and I should really go lay down and get some rest.

Dulkor fucked around with this message at Jul 17, 2015 around 10:06

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


>>Grognards.txt: I think a prolapsed womb is very cool

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

*So8*


Ronwayne posted:

>>Grognards.txt: I think a prolapsed womb is very cool

If what you are going for is body horror I can sort of see where Viy is coming from, but as Dulkor points out in his medication-induced haze it's always women that end up as the monster when it comes to sex flavored horror. It's not that I object in principle, but there is a enough squickiness in the hobby that a mention of something like that raises up some red flags.

This actually makes me think: how do you put male sexuality in an horror context without cutting into surprise sex Avenue?

JackMann
Aug 11, 2010


Fallen Rib

The logic on this one is actually kind of interesting. Basically, a bee's sting is a modified ovipositor. The womb is the closest human analog. I think in this case it's not coming from a terrible place, but I can definitely understand the knee-jerk reactions, due to pretty much all the things Dulkor just listed. It gets done with misogynistic intentions so often, it's hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

Lightning Lord
Feb 21, 2013

$200 a day, plus expenses



paradoxGentleman posted:

This actually makes me think: how do you put male sexuality in an horror context without cutting into surprise sex Avenue?

Alien.

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

*So8*



Did you miss the final part of my sentence

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest! The rightest!


JackMann posted:

The logic on this one is actually kind of interesting. Basically, a bee's sting is a modified ovipositor. The womb is the closest human analog. I think in this case it's not coming from a terrible place, but I can definitely understand the knee-jerk reactions, due to pretty much all the things Dulkor just listed. It gets done with misogynistic intentions so often, it's hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

Human-bee monsters are basically never stabbing you with their loving womb though, they have a goofy bee bit coming out of their rear end.

The aversion is there because it's been done a trillion times and those were all awful, so the hope that this time maybe they could get it right runs thin.

Lightning Lord
Feb 21, 2013

$200 a day, plus expenses



paradoxGentleman posted:

Did you miss the final part of my sentence

Then only consider the fear of pregnancy aspects. Actually you know, the way the thread is going is towards a pretty unsavory topic. I think with Zach Jesse still fresh in my mind (still can't loving get over that) I've had my fill for the foreseeable forever.

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


ProfessorCirno posted:

Human-bee monsters are basically never stabbing you with their loving womb though, they have a goofy bee bit coming out of their rear end.

How about this, instead of bee-rear end a human-bee monster should have bees for hands.

Sage Genesis
Aug 14, 2014


Sailor Viy posted:

Try reading her post on reinterpreting the traditional D&D classes and races, that is an absolute classic.

Link?

Serf
May 5, 2011








I don't want to read about prolapsing womb-stingers because what the gently caress is wrong with you holy poo poo why. I mean it's fine to look at here in grogs.txt where horrific poo poo like that belongs, but if I encountered that in an actual game I'd be out immediately.

potatocubed
Jul 26, 2012

"Tiger tiger doing what?"



Sailor Viy posted:

Serious question, why do you all have such an aversion to crazy womb monsters? I get that you think its sexist but I just can't fathom the logical leap from "a person made up a feminine monster" to "that person hates/fears women IRL".

In my case it's less about the sexism and more that within the context of the OSR this is Yet Another Monster From Woman's Genitals. Like, the whole goddamn movement is drowning in body horror sex beasts and after hearing this woman trumpeted as one of the greatest OSR writers there is, it made me roll my eyes a bit to trip over this pretty much right away.

I've gone back and read some more of Scrap Princess' stuff, though, and it looks like this was a one-off, so my judgement was excessively hasty.

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

*So8*


Serf posted:

I don't want to read about prolapsing womb-stingers because what the gently caress is wrong with you holy poo poo why. I mean it's fine to look at here in grogs.txt where horrific poo poo like that belongs, but if I encountered that in an actual game I'd be out immediately.

A GM springing this to you with no warning is terrible, of course, as is one that only does it to because it's his fetish, but maybe you just want to play a body horror flavored game, kind of like Resident Evil, , and if you are aiming for an horror atmosphere, a sense of uncomforableness is more than welcome.

Serf
May 5, 2011








paradoxGentleman posted:

A GM springing this to you with no warning is terrible, of course, as is one that only does it to because it's his fetish, but maybe you just want to play a body horror flavored game, kind of like Resident Evil, , and if you are aiming for an horror atmosphere, a sense of uncomforableness is more than welcome.

Nah, some poo poo just doesn't need to be used. I would be cool with people mutating into monsters or limbs getting hacked off or whatever but once you start bringing prolapstingers or killer dicks etc. into a game you've gone from "uncomfortable creepiness" to "perverse creepiness" and I'm just not down for that. I hope most GMs would tell you what they're going for beforehand but I don't have that much faith in people.

Chille Tid
Feb 12, 2015


I don't necessarily endorse those blogs. They just happen to be the ones I know are authored by OSR women.

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

*So8*


Serf posted:

Nah, some poo poo just doesn't need to be used. I would be cool with people mutating into monsters or limbs getting hacked off or whatever but once you start bringing prolapstingers or killer dicks etc. into a game you've gone from "uncomfortable creepiness" to "perverse creepiness" and I'm just not down for that. I hope most GMs would tell you what they're going for beforehand but I don't have that much faith in people.

This is a perfectly understandable point of view. I feel that this sort of horror has its place and can be used in a non-creepy way- or rather, in a way that is creepy for the PCs and not the players- in the right setting, but I can see how some people might feel it's just taking it too far.

e: to make my point perfectly clear: I am not saying I'd use these elements myself, but I am willing to accept that they might add something good to a campaign in the right hands.

Selachian
Oct 9, 2012

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Bonitis Fund.


Kai Tave posted:

Thanks, I figured there had to be someone out there. Rachel Ghoul's blog seems pretty cool on a quick read.

I believe she's RPG.net's LibraryLass (not doxxing, it's linked in her signature there).

Sailor Viy
Aug 4, 2013

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Serf posted:

I don't want to read about prolapsing womb-stingers because what the gently caress is wrong with you holy poo poo why. I mean it's fine to look at here in grogs.txt where horrific poo poo like that belongs, but if I encountered that in an actual game I'd be out immediately.

It's fine if you don't like something in your game but when you turn it into a moral issue and say "nobody is allowed to use this ever" that's where I have a problem.

For the record I would use the prolapsed womb lady in my game and I think my players would find it cool and funny. I probably wouldn't use it in a game with strangers but I hate playing with strangers anyway.


http://monstermanualsewnfrompants.b...antasy.html?m=1

quote:

Mountains rise and fall, continents collide, stars flee the day, all through the turnings of the great machine. Pistons and cogs, of titanic size and inexorable purpose, are the true bones of this earth. Deep down in the endless factory and forges, passed clockwork bigger than cities, are the wombs dwarfs. Dwarfs are made in molds, with secret clay, and fired in cavernous kilns, and glazed in blood. Each clan has a identifying series of characteristics , The polishers have big noses and plaited beards, the Stokers triangle beards and monobrows, etc. The molds are more akin to typeset , allowing each clan to fire each dwarf with a variation of characteristics allowing easier identification between the batchs.

Some dwarfs snap and no longer hear the needs of the machine, and travel to the surface to drown the existential nightmare of their Un-needed lives , with violence and beer.

Selachian
Oct 9, 2012

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Bonitis Fund.


Sailor Viy posted:

Mountains rise and fall, continents collide, stars flee the day, all through the turnings of the great machine. Pistons and cogs, of titanic size and inexorable purpose, are the true bones of this earth. Deep down in the endless factory and forges, passed clockwork bigger than cities, are the wombs dwarfs. Dwarfs are made in molds, with secret clay, and fired in cavernous kilns, and glazed in blood. Each clan has a identifying series of characteristics , The polishers have big noses and plaited beards, the Stokers triangle beards and monobrows, etc. The molds are more akin to typeset , allowing each clan to fire each dwarf with a variation of characteristics allowing easier identification between the batchs.

Some dwarfs snap and no longer hear the needs of the machine, and travel to the surface to drown the existential nightmare of their Un-needed lives , with violence and beer.

Sounds a lot like Gloranthan dwarves, who are also constructs built for various castes, and who usually spend their time repairing and maintaining the immense World Machine deep below the earth.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

quote:

I've been seeing the phrases Daily Powers and At-Will Powers used on this reddit, but given the different design philosophies it feels weird to describe 5e things in 4e terms. I don't hate 4e on principal or anything, I just think that the term is not as descriptive as it could be in 5e's context.

To me At-Will in 5e just means something that doesn't use a resource. Resource-less abilities? Unlimited abilities? I don't know if I like either of those enough to recommend them.

Am I being too pedantic about this? What do you all think.

quote:

Some things are recharged at dawn, so it would make sense to call those daily.

quote:

I'm still all for using the word "daily" for recharge at dawn items, so long as you don't follow it with the word "Power". "This item recharges daily" is describing the item. Saying "This item has a daily power" is using 4e jargon.

quote:

My AL DM uses the term "bloodied" constantly. Can we stop using that?

quote:

I totally agree on getting rid of bloodied. It still kind of exists in the DMG because it recommends damage above 50% HP is glancing blows and getting tired, and below 50% are hits actually starting to land. However, the bloodied "tag" or "state" that abilities work off of no longer exists and we shouldn't use it in 5e.

quote:

I'd rather see something specific to the enemy.

If I am fighting a golem, don't tell me its bloodied. If a fight has a result if I am under half health, don't ask if my halfling is bloodied, because goddamnit he's not gonna let anyone know, not even the god's god.

quote:

quote:

These are just everyday expressions, so I wouldn't even consider them jargon. Besides, the 5the edition PHB uses "at-will" in the descriptions of several invocations, for instance.
It's certainly true that the words "at will" are used to describe the ways in which players can do things. It appears in the section describing cantrips)

A cantrip is a spell that can be cast at will, without using a spell slot and without being prepared in advance.

But to me it lacks "keyword" status in 5e. I've heard some people refer to resource-less abilities as "ribbons" (i.e. the Way of the Four Elements Remastered post), which I think works better as a generic term. Maybe "cantrip" would be a good generic term for this edition. There's something that doesn't sit right with me about "At-Will" being the generic for 5e because it was a keyword in 4e, and keywords have a lot of context-specific baggage.

Serf
May 5, 2011








Sailor Viy posted:

It's fine if you don't like something in your game but when you turn it into a moral issue and say "nobody is allowed to use this ever" that's where I have a problem.

I am not advocating for censoring stuff, people are allowed to like whatever perverted crap they want, that's fine. But for me personally, if I was browsing an RPG blog and just came across this prolapstinger poo poo I would probably post it here and then never go back. I don't play elfgames to hear/think about creepy sex organ stuff. And frankly I lack both the capacity and the will to understand anyone who would accept that in their game.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008



Grimey Drawer


Sounds like a lot of "Reinventing the Wheel"/"Not Invented Here" syndrome going on.

Sage Genesis
Aug 14, 2014



Thanks.

Hm. May have oversold it a bit, the blog is basically a bunch of stuff that's already been done before. Like, subterranean machine clan dwarves? Isn't that exactly what Exalted did? I guess the only thing that's new is gnomes as mole people, but that's mostly because it comes up with a completely different kind of being and slaps the "gnome" label on it. Saying something like "Gnomes are now penguins" is not a creative spin on gnomes, it's just mucking about with mislabeling things.

senrath
Nov 3, 2009

Look Professor, a destruct switch!

Sage Genesis posted:

Thanks.

Hm. May have oversold it a bit, the blog is basically a bunch of stuff that's already been done before. Like, subterranean machine clan dwarves? Isn't that exactly what Exalted did? I guess the only thing that's new is gnomes as mole people, but that's mostly because it comes up with a completely different kind of being and slaps the "gnome" label on it. Saying something like "Gnomes are now penguins" is not a creative spin on gnomes, it's just mucking about with mislabeling things.

Except that the term "gnome" originally referred to earth elementals, as that blog notes. It's very much a return to form, not mislabeling.

Parkreiner
Oct 29, 2011


Sage Genesis posted:

Hm. May have oversold it a bit, the blog is basically a bunch of stuff that's already been done before.

OSR.txt

I don't have a copy to hand, but this is pretty much a verbatim quote from the last retroclone I looked at, some recent space opera-ish spiritual prequel to Empire of the Petal Throne, which manages to sum up my disinterest in the entire D&D cover band community in one line: "Locked doors may be a serious impediment to adventurers exploring space dungeons."

ellbent
May 2, 2007

I NEVER HAD SOUL


All this discussion of monsters or aliens or whatever that weaponize or mutate the general shape of a vagina make me wonder how the 2edgy audience for fighting bomb-farting toxic wombcannons would react to a horror setting where every goddamn thing in existence is some form of lethal phallus instead.

moths
Aug 25, 2004



You mean the real world?

Sage Genesis
Aug 14, 2014


senrath posted:

Except that the term "gnome" originally referred to earth elementals, as that blog notes. It's very much a return to form, not mislabeling.

The origins of the word are not as clear-cut as that. And even then, earth elementals in mythology are not mole-dudes. They were pygmies. Dwarfs. Not muscle-moles who seek to escape the earth. (Really, earth elementals that seek to escape the earth? If the deep earth is a prison shouldn't they be the wardens rather than the imprisoned-yet-clearly-not-imprisoned?) So yes as far as I'm concerned this take on the gnome is just some mislabeling. Not interested in discussing it at great length though. If you disagree it's all good.

Bar Crow
Oct 10, 2012


Parkreiner posted:

I don't have a copy to hand, but this is pretty much a verbatim quote from the last retroclone I looked at, some recent space opera-ish spiritual prequel to Empire of the Petal Throne, which manages to sum up my disinterest in the entire D&D cover band community in one line: "Locked doors may be a serious impediment to adventurers exploring space dungeons."
What is it with game designers thinking locked doors are at all interesting?

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Thesaurasaurus
Feb 15, 2010

"Send in Boxbot!"


Bar Crow posted:

What is it with game designers thinking locked doors are at all interesting?

I feel that, unless you are playing a video game and unlocking a door through a direct-analogue lockpicking minigame, the interesting part of a locked door is not the locked door itself. It is the framing device it provides for a puzzle-solving scene of "how do we get to the other side?"

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