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Monocled Falcon posted:This chapter doesn't seem to have anything to do any "Methods of Rationality". The first chapters read a bit like an episode of the magic school bus about social science, but this weird game and the bullying thing have nothing to do with or even any of the Less Wrongisms I'm aware of. ... Mind, the bullying thing goes off into some goddamned stupid directions later on. But still.
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Jul 9, 2015 18:40
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divabot posted:Woolie Wool posted this over in the Dark Enlightement thread. I think it sums up an essential problem with HPMOR: these people don't actually like, but loathe and fear, art and culture (that doesn't reinforce their self-image).
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Aug 8, 2015 14:03
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chrisoya posted:Oh, gently caress a pig, it's this class. I forgot about this one. The Ender's Game reference was a warning. Not the Battle School thing they set up later, just Harry being all I FIGHT TO UTTERLY DESTROY THE ENEMY hard-man-doing-hard-things. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 16:04
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Someone pointed out that the Rowlingverse has a very weird Calvinistic vibe to it in general.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:26
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JosephWongKS posted:
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Oct 12, 2015 17:13
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Tiggum posted:So what was the lesson and how did Harry dodge it? ... Edit - this is a fairly bad book, which conveys a bad philosophy and is utterly inconsistent about its themes and worldbuilding. However, reading it three paragraphs at a time, instead of chapter by chapter, and trying to come up with the worst possible interpretation for those paragraphs is a bad practice which contributes to the thread going full retard. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 13:41
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JosephWongKS posted:Kinda sad that Eliezer, in his late-twenties or early thirties (whenever it was that he wrote this chapter), is still stuck in a “jock vs nerds” mindset.
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Oct 29, 2015 04:54
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JosephWongKS posted:He’s probably thinking of using his Time-Turner to pull off whatever he intends to pull off, but I can’t see how he’s going to get from Time/Point A to Time/Point B with everyone looking on. The last few times he’s used the Time-Turner, he was by himself. Supposing he uses the TT, it would go something like: Harry and Goyle face off. Within a few seconds or a minute, Harry produces the Rememberall, ending the contest and moving on. Once that's done, he has all day to find a private spot, turn back time, and contrive a plan that will transfer the Rememberall into Past!Harry's possession. P!H doesn't have to do anything, much less use the TT during the contest itself. That's the beauty of time travel as a solve-all fixer. Eliminates every problem and every hint of tension.
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Nov 4, 2015 08:51
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The arbitrary, needlesly elaborate, overtly detailed loving chapters and chapters devoted to transfiguration may not be the worst parts of the book, per-se, but they are surely the most boring.
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Mar 9, 2016 00:44
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^ That seems like a basis for a good story.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:59
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Ravenfood posted:All of the idiots who brag about their 1600 SAT scores and 2.8 GPA and refuse to study who then work some really lovely undergrad coding job would get sorted into Ravenclaw because they value intelligence, even if they're not actually "smart". Neville's whole deal (iirc, its been a while since I read HP) is that he really, really wants to be brave even if he isn't, so he gets in to Gryffindor. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Apr 14, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 23:44
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The original is really simple. There's a house for smart people. Unless they're heroic smart people, in which case they go into the heroic house. There's a house for the bad guys. And then there's the house for everyone else. Makes perfect sense, really. Any kind of thought given to the issue, any sort of differentiation between the houses, sorting the heroes into different houses and (ostensibly) making a point about cooperation - pretty much anything is an improvement.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:39
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JosephWongKS posted:Rowling took the Time-Turner from Hermione by the end of Book 2; is Eliezarry going to keep his for the rest of the series?[/b] ... Actually, I might say that it's underutilized. *Gasp* *Shock* *Horror* But seriously. When such a game-breaking item as "go back in time at will" is introduced, and you actually drawn attention to it in your fanfic, you'll need to either: 1. Fanwank some sort of a reason for why the time turner can't be used to pretty much do everything and anything, then move on with the goddamned story. 2. Roll with it, and just focus the story around the time turner, and how Harry uses it to take over the universe or whatever. Eliezer starts going with option 2 for a while but (just like every goddamned plot thread and theme, introduced and soon abandoned) quickly lets it go, and large portions of the later story forget about time-turners or hastily explain why they can't be used.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:31
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MoR repudiates pretty much every valid moral lesson taught by the HP series, from the power of friendship onwards. It's seriously like a genuine attempt to craft a values system as repugnant as possible. Ayn Rand-esque, really.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:15
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So basically, Yud was spoiled rotten (literally) by his parents, and being quite satisfied with the creature he turned out to be, he now believes that is exactly the best way to treat "precocious" children. Also, I wonder how many of Harriezer's techniques for influencing people he actually used in establishing his own little cult.
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Dec 29, 2016 09:50
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I get that Yud has really weird ideas about what science is, but how and why would Harriezer - the son of an actual scientist - would grow up thinking that science "started" during the Enlightenment?
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Jan 3, 2017 19:59
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NihilCredo posted:Harriezer said that 1904 was "more than two centuries after science had gotten started". The Scientific Revolution is generally considered to encompass the developments between Galileo (early-mid 17th century) and Newton (late 17th century). Looks fine to me. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 04:44
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I think this thread needs a constant "how thing actually works IRL vs how Yudkowsky thinks it works" section. Specifically one for the bullying theme, which is wrong on... I don't even know how many levels, but also in general.
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Jan 9, 2017 10:12
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Pvt.Scott posted:I'm always the idiot who likes the character everyone in the fandom hates. Shinji in Neon Genesis Evangalion? Carth Onassi in KOTOR? Boring Psychic dude/ and Ashley in the first Mass Effect? This guy. What's wrong with a character that has issues and really isn't into whatever the setting's bullshit is?
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Jan 18, 2017 15:46
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Terrible confession time - I actually like all the battle school stuff. It makes for decent character development for the rest of the cast. It's actually superior to the (in retrospect, actually quite terrible) original, insofar as its not about a lone super-genius in a school full of ostensible geniuses winning the day by daring to (gasp!) come up with the most basic imaginable innovations.
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Jan 24, 2017 12:04
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Poor thread, getting abandoned over and over. This is a big old chapter, and kind of daunting to tackle, so I'm cutting it in half. Chapter 30: Working in Groups, Pt 1 J. K. Rowling if a man tries to bother you, you can think blue, count two, and look for a red shoe. (I actually missed the reference, and had to google. Cordwainer Smith, apparently. Not a fan) Time to get our battle school on. HPMOR posted:The day was Sunday, November 3rd, and soon the three great powers of their school year, Harry Potter, Draco Malfoy, and Hermione Granger, would begin their struggle for supreme dominance. 1. Who are the Gryffindors? A reference to something that happened earlier in the fanfic / books? A more obscure reference of some sort? 2. Why is everyone watching? Seriously. I get why People in the battle school watch... well, not the games, IIRC, but the scoreboard, because they're all part of some army. People in the HP universe watch Quidditch for the same reason we watch any sport - team loyalty, be it to a house or a country. But (spoiler alert) we're going to find out the armies are all composed of a mix from every house, so that's not it. I suppose our hero quote:The students were dressed, not in their ordinary school robes, but in Muggle camouflage uniforms that Professor Quirrell had obtained somewhere and supplied in sufficient quantity and variety to fit everyone. This is the image that greets you on the HPmor homepage:  Voldermort's army. Creepier than the author intended, probably. Harriezer is forced to allow Draco to command the Dragon army (get it?), thus crushing his long-held dreams of cosplaying as a manipulated, maladjusted, under-aged genocidal serial-killer. At least in that respect. Draco's army wear an "understated and elegant" fire insignia. His troops use Auror battle formations in a defensive perimeter around himself, which (rushing ahead) work for adults who have been training to fight specifically in that formation for years, covering each other and the like. Harriezer uses this as a lesson about following traditions or "how things are done" without really considering why things are done that way, and how they ought to change in your particular context. Hermione commands the Sunshine army, wearing a smilie insignia. Their "we're so nice" gimmick is actually fairly neat. Skipping over a Star Wars reference, Harriezer goes with "Chaos Legion", wearing the insignia of snapping fingers, because of course they are. His soldiers are encouraged to use their initiative and disregard his orders, unless he prefaces them with "Merlin Says". Even with that little caveat: quote:Fast. Creative. Unpredictable. Non-homogenous. Don't just obey orders, think about whether what you're doing right now makes sense. Yeah, that's not a thing Harriezer would do. It's a thing Ender would do, because he (ostensibly) values his soldiers and does not explicitly think of them as NPCs in a videogame. Harriezer reflects that Quirrel's "arbitrarily" composing the armies from different houses reflects the Robbers Cave experiment. In Yud's version of events, the two groups became hostile to each other merely due to being separated into distinct groups, rather than due to competing for limited resources (the other members of each army besides the generals don't really have a stake in the conflict, besides the prestige, which... see above about why anyone would care or watch). Also, Harriezer completely fails to consider why the arbitrary division into Houses exists in the first place. (Then again, in the HPMOR universe, it's ostensibly a bit less arbitrary) Anyways, the idea that the armies will now form distinct and new group identities based on arbitrary division leads Harriezer to conclude that: quote:Professor Quirrell, despite his affected Dark atmosphere and his pretense of neutrality in the conflict between Good and Evil, was secretly backing Good, not that Harry would ever dare say that out loud. Meanwhile, Draco is told: quote:that if he wanted to be the first Malfoy to gain complete political control of the country, he needed to learn how to govern the other three-quarters of the population. It was things like this which reassured Draco that Professor Quirrell had a great deal more sympathy for the good guys than Professor Quirrell was letting on. Both sides expect Hermione to attack Draco, then Harriezer will get to mop up the remains, maybe rescuing her in the process. I wonder how this first battle will actually unfold. Also, this kid's movie I'm watching has just had a girl join the sports team (there's no rule against it!) and I'm pretty sure she's going to suck at sports. Anyways, here's Harriezer's full speech to his troops (Draco's is literally "stay by your mates, and do as we practiced", which I rather like, and we're not privy to Hermione's). Like a lot of MOR stuff, it starts out semi-interesting, and then just drags on. Feel free to point out any references: So random! XD posted:My troops, I'm not going to lie to you, our situation today is very grim. Dragon Army has never lost a single battle. And Hermione Granger... has a very good memory. The truth is, most of you are probably going to die. And the survivors will envy the dead. But we have to win this. We have to win this so that someday, our children can enjoy the taste of chocolate again. Everything is at stake here. Literally everything. If we lose, the whole universe just blinks out like a light bulb. And now I realize that most of you don't know what a light bulb is. Well, take it from me, it's bad. But if we have to go down, let's go down fighting, like heroes, so that as the darkness closes in, we can think to ourselves, at least we had fun. Are you afraid to die? I know I am. I can feel those cold shivers of fear like someone is pumping ice cream into my shirt. But I know... that history is watching us. It was watching us when we changed into our uniforms. It was probably taking pictures. And history, my troops, is written by the victors. If we win this, we can write our own history. A history in which Hogwarts was founded by four renegade house elves. We can make everyone study that history, even though it isn't true, and if they don't answer the right way on our tests... they'll fail the class. Isn't that worth dying for? No, don't answer that. Some things are better left unknown. None of us know why we're here. None of us know why we're fighting. We just woke up in these uniforms in this mysterious forest, knowing only that there was no way to get our names and memories back except victory. The students in those other armies out there... they're just like us. They don't want to die. They're fighting to protect each other, the only friends they have left. They're fighting because they know they have families who'll miss them, even if they can't remember now. They may even be fighting to save the world. But we have a better reason to fight than they do. We fight because we like it. We fight to amuse eldritch monstrosities from beyond Space and Time. We fight because we're Chaos. Soon the final battle will begin, so let me say now, because I won't get a chance later, that it was an honor to be your commander, however briefly. Thank you, thank you all. And remember, your goal isn't just to cut down the enemy, it's to make them afraid! Both Dragon and Chaos send out broomstick reconnaissance teams. They return with the news that Hermione had divided her forces in two, including the broomsticks, and is attacking both armies. quote:Then Harry realized. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 01:48
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Chapter 30: Working in Groups, Pt 1 (Pt 2) Neville is in Harry's army, obviously: quote:Harry had said quite a lot of things to Neville in private, starting with "You know, Neville, if you want to become as awesome as the imaginary Neville who lives in your head but isn't allowed to do anything because you're scared, then you really should sign up for Professor Quirrell's armies." quote:The tune [of the Chaos march] was what a Muggle would have identified as John Williams's Imperial March, also known as "Darth Vader's Theme"; and the words Harry had added were easy to remember. Both halves of Sunshine charge their respective opponents and get cut down with sleep spells. Broomsticks are lit up with Luminos to signify a hit, so someone cares at least marginally about student safety. Harriezer is very happy he didn't have to hit Hermione, though she'd doubtless be very upset if she found out he thinks that way. Geez lady, it's just perfectly rational  quote:"Prepare yourselves!" roared Draco at his troops. "Stay together with your mates, act as a unit, fire as soon as the enemy is in range!" quote:"Blood for the blood god! " screamed Neville. "Skulls for the skull throne! Ia! Shub-Niggurath! The enemy's gate is sideways! " Foreshadowing and "badassery" established, Neville manages to sneakily drop a few Dragons, then leaves the narrative for the chapter. quote:And Neville got to his feet, panting. He knew he should be moving, people were yelling "Somnium!" all over the place - quote:"Luminos! " cried one of the boys next to Harry, who hadn't been able to rebuild the magical strength fast enough to do it earlier, and Mr. Goyle dodged it without a pause. Anyways, Harriezer has to convince himself to stop thinking of ways to kill Goyle. Instead, he beam spams him into oblivion, then passes out. When he wakes up (passing out does not count as being defeated) it's just him, a few remaining Chaos soldiers, and Draco inside a protective prismatic shell that none of the Chaos soldiers can pierce. Harriezer pulls out a car battery out of his pouch (???), but before we can start on what would probably be an amazingly stupid bit of reasoning as to what that's supposed to do, a blast of energy slams into Draco's shield from the darkness of the forest. quote:"You know, General Granger," Harry said out loud, "you really should've waited to attack until after I'd fought General Malfoy. You might've been able to get all the survivors." If only the rest of the book was about Hermione repeatedly dunking on Draco and Harriezer. Thus ever to douchebags. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 01:39
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Tiggum posted:It's perfectly consistent for him to say he values individuality though. quote:"Stay together with your mates" seems like an incredibly unlikely thing for Draco to say. He doesn't talk like that. Anyways, Chapter 31: Working in Groups, Pt 2 Harriezer has absolutely no idea how Hermione could possibly have come up with this absolutely brilliant and highly complex stratagem (and other strategies we didn't actually get to see in the last chapter): quote:Harry paced backward and forward in his general's office, which made a wonderful room for pacing, it didn't have any other uses as far as he could tell. Quirrel also forbidden the use of tech in battles. Prudent, though I was looking forward to stuff like bungie chords (or whatever Bean used to zip around the battle room). quote:Battles counted for a lot of Quirrell points if you were a general, and Harry needed to get cracking if he wanted to win Professor Quirrell's Christmas wish. Meanwhile, Draco: quote:stared off into space, as though the wall in front of his desk was the most fascinating surface in the world. quote:With sudden horrified realization, Draco swept papers out of the way, hunting through the mess on his desk, until he found it. And now for the triumphant and shocking conclusion: quote:"How long do you think it will take Malfoy to figure it out?" said General Granger.
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Feb 27, 2017 11:25
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Chapter 32: Interlude: Personal Financial Management Which is exactly as fascinating as it sounds. Quirrel takes Harry out Christmas shopping. Except he doesn't "do" Christmas, so humorous banter ahoy. Actual plots points: quote:"I'm sorry, Harry," said Dumbledore, "and I do apologize, but allowing you control over your own finances would give you far too much independence of action." quote:"I do hope those five Galleons will be enough to last, since you counted them so carefully," said Professor Quirrell. "I doubt the Headmaster shall be so eager to entrust me with your vault key a second time, once he discovers I've been tricked." I'm not sure if we ever find out exactly how Harriezer "tricked" Quirrell or the Goblins. He also figures out that century-old institutions that have been serving the entire magic world might have some sort of protection against the very first get-rich-quick scheme dreamed up by an eleven year old, so we cut off that nascent plot thread (at least for the duration of the narrative - Harriezer still plans for the future as though exploiting the wizarding economy to generate unlimited funds is a given). ... Oh yeah. When Harriezer passed out during the battle, he stopped sustaining his transfiguration. Probably worth mentioning, since transfiguration shenanigans are one of the few plot threads that actually amount to something. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 18:25
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Added Space posted:Thanks Xander77!
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Mar 1, 2017 20:43
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Chapter 33: Coordination Problems, Pt 1 Another complex chapter I'm going to break into pieces. quote:I just recite to myself, over and over, until I can choose sleep: It all adds up to J. K. Rowling. Link in quote is obviously my own. quote:The terrifying part was how fast the whole thing had spiraled out of control. 1. Of course Minerva is ignorant and ineffectual, because why would she not be. 2. Of course Yud types out "into four Houses divided" and then completely ignores that sentence as though it's covered with a SEP field. Every year, the four houses compete for the house cup - it's a long-standing tradition the importance of which was aptly established. Every single student has a stake in the prestige of winning the house cup, yet members of different houses do not "hex each other in corridors". 3. Ergo, even with the previously established misunderstanding of the Robber's cave experiment as  poo poo still doesn't make sense. And if (per Dumbledore's interpretation) (Word recognizes Dumbledore as valid spelling, wtf) people aren't just playing around for the chance to pew pew at each other but rather are taking the conflict seriously - what's the conflict even about? The armies aren't really tied to particular ideologies, political or otherwise. They kinda cosplay as "types" (Discipline / Chaos / Niceness), but still. So the only reason for this whole thing seriously is the three army leaders being extremely charismatic, which... they are certainly not (well, the author probably intended otherwise, but I think the readers can agree here). And if they were, wouldn't they be able to control their "followers"? With that said: quote:The terrifying part was how fast the whole thing had spiraled out of control. 1. We've skipped the entirety of battle school. First battle, stuff happens offscreen, last battle incoming. Obviously a good thing if you hate this particular subplot, but this is the point at which the story lost me, and I hate-read the rest of it. quote:Professor Quirrell's eyes moved beneath their lids to regard Draco, and then Granger. "In truth, Mr. Malfoy, Miss Granger, I simply could not live with myself if I shut down the grand debacle before its climax. One of your soldiers has even become a quadruple agent." 2. Traitors. We had just established that the students are taking the whole army thing in dead earnest, and are not just using it as an excuse to wreak havoc. Ok, pretending to plot what the gently caress ever for shits and giggles - maybe. Making your own plots to win the battle - fair enough. But actually betraying your team? Imagine just how it would be received if a high school quarterback "betrayed" his team and how his life would look from that point onward. 3. Isn't it great that all the battles, betrayals and contrasting plans took place mostly offscreen. Not only was Yud able to avoid coming up with different brilliant strategies, but he also wasn't forced to figure out the possible motivation and intricate planning for hordes of 4. This gets discussed in detail later on, but there's no "normal" battlefield. The battles take place at random in different areas of the Hogwarts school grounds, with little prior notice. I can imagine Quirrelmorts justification about how real battles blah blah blah, but going back to the multiplayer FPS experience - nobody does well on a map they're playing for the first time. quote:Professor Quirrell's eyelids were half-closed, his chin resting on his hands as he leaned forward onto his desk. "And you, Mr. Potter?" said the Defense Professor. "Are you likewise in agreement?" quote:Hermione stared at the parchment Zabini had given her, feeling utterly and completely helpless. quote:"We are gathered," said Harry. Nah, but fair enough, the little poo poo being given power and cosplaying as an evil overlord with a mix of Monty Python is both predictable and moderately funny. quote:"Our Legionnaires have begun five new plots since yesterday evening." Time for the actual discussion of timeless decision theory etc. I'm sure that Yud is very proud of this system and the elaborate points thing, and how they play into the resolution of the battle, but my eyes start to glaze over merely looking at this bullshit (I'm assuming it's bullshit based on the statistical analysis of the average quality of Yud's ideas  ) much less when the soldiers' plots are revealed. So I'll take back any complaints about the rest of battle school being offscreen, I suppose.Anyways, I suppose we're all familiar with the basic Prisoner's Dilemma, so Yud's take follows: quote:In fact, Harry had said, this was pretty much the reason why people had governments - you might be better off if you stole from someone else, just like each prisoner would be individually better off if they defected in the Prisoner's Dilemma. But if everyone thought like that, the country would fall into chaos and everyone would be worse off, like what would happen if both prisoners defected. So people let themselves be ruled by governments, just like the Death Eaters had let themselves be ruled by the Dark Lord. The first half of the chapter concludes with Hermione bumping into Dumbledore in the halls, suggesting he's putting his plan into action. Next time - the actual battle.
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Mar 4, 2017 16:35
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Cyrai posted:Like, say you wanted to figure out the probability of rolling a dice and getting an even number five times in a row. You could try to figure that out by rolling ten thousand dice with one hundred sides each, totalling the result, and seeing if the total is odd or even. Or you could just get a regular dice and roll it five times for the exact same result in a fraction of the time with less chance for a stupid calculation error ... Edit - oh yeah, I figured at least part of the reason why the house conflict doesn't matter, while the army conflict does. Not sure what the technical name for it is, but it's a fairly common trope where previous conflicts that don't directly involve the protagonist don't matter / can be solved with a quick talk. Kirk is star-trekking across the universe, when he runs into a pair of planets at war with each other. Of course the moral of the episode is going to be that war is wrong, and they can settle matters with a nice chat. Is Kirk going to apply that lesson to the Federation's conflict with the Klingons? Don't be absurd, that conflict stems entirely from the Klingons being So the houses being separated by ideology / personality traits doesn't matter, while the armies are serious business (to an extent). Xander77 fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 10:21
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Chapter 33: Coordination Problems, Pt 1 (pt 2)quote:Draco had hoped that they would be fighting in the upper levels of Hogwarts again. Professor Quirrell had said that real fights were more likely to take place in cities than forests, and fighting inside schoolrooms and corridors was supposed to simulate that, with ribbons to mark the allowed areas. Dragon Army had done well in those fights. Let me whinge some more - I feel like the whole planning bit for each army can't really be skipped, so I'm obliged to post huge chunks of text for each: quote:"Listen to me very carefully," said General Malfoy. His voice came out a little lower, a little burbly with bubbles, libsten to me vebwy caerbfully, but the sound traveled clearly. "There's only one way we can win this. We've got to march on Sunshine together with Chaos, and beat Sunshine. Then we fight it out with Potter and win. That's got to happen, understand? No matter what else goes on, that part has to happen that way -" Seven Sunshine troops swim off away from the action, in a cunning plan. quote:"Now what?" said Ron. 2. Good thing we don't have to account for the force of destruction that is Mr. Crabbe. The highly accomplished broomstick flyer. Can you even imagine what he would have done under water? Because I can't. (Also, how was he dealt with in the other battles?) 3. It took me quite a while to figure out how the points worked out here. Someone shot Crabbe in the name of Sunshine, and then someone else on Dragon shot that spy in the name of Dragon, figuring that losing a point is better than giving Chaos / Sunshine two points. Something to keep in mind for later. quote:Harry took a deep breath, feeling the water gurgle harmlessly in his lungs. quote:Like every Chaos Legionnaire in the army, Neville's head was constantly rotating as he swam, looking up, down, around, to every side. Not just watching for Sunshine Soldiers, but watching for any sign that a Chaos Legionnaire had drawn their wand and was about to betray them. Usually traitors waited until the confusion of battle to make their move, but that early gong had put them all on guard. quote:"It's all right," Susan Bones said firmly. Heads turned to look at the Sunshine Captain. "Our job is the same, to take as many of them with us as we can. And remember, Zabini took away all the spies! We don't have to stay on the lookout like they do!" The girl was smiling defiantly, provoking answering smiles from many of the other soldiers, even from Hermione herself. "It can be like it was in November. We just have to keep our heads high, fight our best, and trust each other -" Neville quote:"Rainbows and unicorns! " roared the Sunshine Captain. quote:The two shoals swam uneasily next to each other, the soldiers in each army awaiting an order to call out their true allegiances, and attack... Standoff between the exactly even surviving forces, and... the seven Sunshine soldiers (including Zabini) swim up and join the Dragons. Chaos keeps using hit-and-run tactics (which I'm going to allow, given offscreen training or whatever) and somehow keeping up with superior Dragon numbers. quote:This wasn't working, and Draco needed to rethink things. quote:Zabini came in next, commanding a force of two Sunnies and four Dragons, one of whom was Gregory keeping an eye on Zabini. Draco didn't trust Zabini. And neither Draco nor Zabini trusted the Sunnies enough to make them a majority of any unit; they were supposed to be loyal either to Draco directly, or to Granger who'd been fooled by the promise that the Dragons would be betrayed in the end after both forces had been depleted, just as Harry's more trusted Chaotics should've been fooled into not shooting at the Sunnies by the promise of their firing fake Sleep Hexes and switching to support Chaos later; but it was possible some of the Sunnies were loyal to Chaos and weren't firing real Sleep Hexes and that was why Dragon wasn't winning the way their numerical advantage should've let them win... Anyways, as I keep pointing out - having an informal system that discourage unwanted behavior even if allowed by adult rules is literally what high school is ALL ABOUT. quote:Longbottom's body drifted chaotically through the water, arms and legs disarrayed. After Draco had finally got a hit in they'd all shot him again just to be sure. quote:Granger: 253 / Malfoy: 252 / Potter: 254 quote:Parvati stared at him, trying to think, but she wasn't really good at plotting; Zabini'd said the plan was to secretly keep the scores of Chaos and Dragon as even as possible so they'd use Sunshine's name to execute their traitors instead of losing even a single point, and that had worked... but... she had the feeling she was missing something, she wasn't a Slytherin... The constant posting of the score and focus on the score system kinda gives it away.
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Mar 10, 2017 19:38
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Stanfield posted:Hang on, so all that poo poo about plots and traitors and points was just to build to the really obvious twist of Zabini not actually being a traitor? Chapter 34: Coordination Problems, Pt 2 quote:There'd been one brief moment when the explosion might've come; but Dumbledore had already been standing up and applauding warmly, and no one had proven foolish enough to riot in front of the Headmaster. You get a Quirrell gift! You get a Quirrel gift! quote:"General Granger and I would both like to say," Draco said in his most formal voice, knowing it was being amplified and heard, "that we will no longer accept the help of any traitors. And if, in any battle, we find that Potter has accepted traitors from either of our armies, we will join forces to crush him." quote:"Very good," said their Defense Professor, smiling. "It took the two of you long enough, but you are still to be congratulated on having thought of it before any other generals." Now, Quirrell has something to say: quote:And Professor Quirrell turned from the three children, and straightened at the podium to address the whole watching crowd; his customary air of detached amusement dropped away like a falling mask, and when he spoke again his voice was amplified louder than it had been. Draco and Albus dislike this immensely, for different reasons: quote:"Such speeches are not for the ears of students," said Albus Dumbledore in a dangerously rising voice. "Nor for the mouths of professors!" Both Draco and Hermione wish for their house to win the House Cup: quote:"There were soldiers from every House in my army, and I don't mean to slight any of them. But Houses should still count for something, too. It was sad when students in the same House were hexing each other just because they were in different armies. People should be able to rely on whoever's in their House. That's why Godric Gryffindor, and Salazar Slytherin, and Rowena Ravenclaw, and Helga Hufflepuff created the four Houses of Hogwarts in the first place. I'm the General of Sunshine, but even before that, I'm Hermione Granger of Ravenclaw, and I'm proud to be part of a House that's eight hundred years old." As to Harriezer: quote:There was a pause as Professor Quirrell looked at the parchment. Anyways, Quirrell: quote:"I mean that I shall grant three wishes using a single plot."
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Mar 11, 2017 13:01
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Yeah, that's part of the thing. Voldy is not an external enemy. He's not a random phenomenon. Hell, Grundewald is not a random phenomenon.
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Mar 11, 2017 19:39
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Tiggum posted:And in terms of the plot, it's obviously just there to reduce a team conflict to an individual conflict so that Harry can be the winner, which is why Quidditch is cancelled in Goblet of Fire - Harry's already got his own contest so there's no need for it.
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Mar 12, 2017 13:35
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Pvt.Scott posted:Professional sports probably shouldn't be taken as seriously as they are, but sports in general (and other types of physical play) are social physical activities that are great for building teamwork, camaraderie, strength and skill. What's irrational about that?
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Mar 14, 2017 08:27
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Chapter 35: Coordination Problems, Pt 3 Quirrell calls Harry into his office and gives him the riot act about messing up Quirrell's poo poo without a warning (apparently a Slytherin no-no) and possibly losing his chance to have magical Britain pledge its allegiance to him: quote:It was very hard for Harry to control his breathing. "Professor Quirrell, I said a good deal less than I wished to say, but I had to say something. Your proposals are extremely alarming to anyone who has the slightest familiarity with Muggle history over the last century. The Italian fascists, some very nasty people, got their name from the fasces, a bundle of rods bound together to symbolize the idea that unity is strength -" 1. I'm fairly sure that a mischaracterization of the war against Voldermort. It was not between a handful of 2. Harriezer kinda acknowledges this with him desire to to give Quirrell a read of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", but IRL democratic governments were far more effective that despotic ones, for obvious reasons, so even if we took Yud's / Quirrel's characterization of evens in the HPMOR universe at face value, we'd still be going up against historical / scientific consensus. (Not even touching upon how fundamentally absurd the implied correlation between "good at magic" and "good leader" Quirrell is suggesting is) 3. Yes, you heard me. I'd wager a guess that Yud doesn't really consider poli-sci / philosophy to be "real" science, what with no room for Bayesian analysis, but it would do him some good to read Locke / Voltaire / anyone who explain how much of an oxymoron a "benevolent dictator" is, and how things simply cannot work well even if you have a magnificently wise and utterly well intentioned man as a tyrant. quote:"I am no friend of Albus Dumbledore," said Harry, a cold in his voice to match Professor Quirrell's. "But he is no child, and he did not seem to think my concerns were childish, nor that I should have waited to speak them." quote:"I am no friend of Albus Dumbledore," said Harry, a cold in his voice to match Professor Quirrell's. "But he is no child, and he did not seem to think my concerns were childish, nor that I should have waited to speak them." Here's an aside. I'm re-reading my Strugatsky brothers collection for the whatever time. Some of my favorite sci-fi writers, insofar as they are capable of writing characters and dialog, and not merely situations and themes. One of their earliest works, Space Apprentice, is still a bit shallow and juvenile, but it has some solid stuff in it. Specifically, it starts out with the titular apprentice making an utter fool of himself, by revealing (shock and horror) that you probably don't have a very well developed ideology / outlook at the ripe old age of 16. The narrative deals (in part) with what Yuri learns during his apprenticeship and how he develops as a person. Kinda of a given for most genres, but relatively rare in sci-fi fiction, much less the sort of fiction Yud would read (unless, of course, we're talking about embracing the Hero's Journey as a prescriptive Holy Bible, which... not quite what I mean). Anyways, I dislike Harriezer as a fully-formed Bayesian superman at the age of 11, and being actually tempted by power as an Evil Overlord and having to overcome it might make for interesting character development (if it isn't dropped like every other blah blah blah). As the founder of a cult, Yud is surely familiar with the temptations of power and the various excuses for grabbing it. Thing is, you'd kinda have to explain to the reader why Quirrell's arguments are persuasive to Harriezer but generally shallow bullshit, which... doesn't really happen. Meanwhile: quote:"Blaise Zabini," said the Defense Professor, straightening; his eyes were set like dark stones within his face, and his voice sent a shiver of fear down Blaise's spine. quote:" There was a strange and complicated plot, which you should have realized was uncharacteristic of the young Slytherin you faced. But there is a person in this school who deals in plots that elaborate, and his name is not Zabini. And I did warn you that there was a quadruple agent; you knew that Zabini was at least a triple agent, and you should have guessed a high chance that it was he. No, I will not declare the battle invalid. All three of you failed the test, and lost to your common enemy." quote:Aftermath: Harry Potter quote:The real reason why Harry had no intention of being argued into endorsing a Light Mark, no matter how much it would help him in his fight against the Dark Lord. quote:Aftermath: Blaise Zabini. quote:Aftermath: Hermione Granger. And it's good to see that McGonnal is still an ineffectual interfering biddy trying to treat children like children, no matter who she is interacting with. quote:Aftermath, Draco Malfoy:
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Mar 15, 2017 15:49
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Chapter 36: Status Differentialsquote:Wrenching disorientation, that was how it felt to walk out of Platform Nine and Three-Quarters into the rest of Earth, the world that Harry had once thought was the only real world. People dressed in casual shirts and pants, instead of the more dignified robes of wizards and witches. Scattered bits of trash here and there around the benches. A forgotten smell, the fumes of burned gasoline, raw and sharp in the air. The ambiance of the King's Cross train station, less bright and cheerful than Hogwarts or Diagon Alley; the people seemed smaller, more afraid, and likely would have eagerly traded their problems for a dark wizard to fight. Harry wanted to cast Scourgify for the dirt, and Everto for the garbage, and if he'd known the spell, a Bubble-Head Charm so he wouldn't have to breathe the air. But he couldn't use his wand, in this place... The healthcare is definitely better, by all appearances. And food... I'm pretty sure that the HP / HPMOR universe does not allow for the creation of food, but it can improve appearance / taste / nutritional value. (I'm actually merely presuming this is the case, much like the one person earlier in the thread who presumed that the HP universe has mana pools - because almost every modern spellcasting system contains that proviso, completely ignoring the fact that creating food out of thin air is one of the ur-magic acts) So, I'll allow this, and note that it makes for an interesting inversion from the "backwards wizards, advanced moogles" thing found elsewhere in HP / HPMOR . quote:"Harry?" called a thin, blonde woman whose perfectly smooth and unblemished skin made her look a good deal younger than thirty-three; and Harry realized with a start that it was magic, he hadn't known the signs before but he could see them now. And whatever sort of potion lasted that long, it must have been terribly dangerous, because most witches didn't do that to themselves, they weren't that desperate... quote:It hadn't hurt quite so much when his parents didn't believe in him, back when no one else had believed in him either, back when Harry hadn't known how it felt to be taken seriously by people like Headmaster Dumbledore and Professor Quirrell. ... Harry's house has lots and lots of books, because that's a sign of smart academic people - always adding books, and never giving any away. quote:Gringotts had readily exchanged Galleons for paper money, but they didn't seem to have any simple way to turn larger quantities of gold into tax-free, unsuspicious Muggle money in a numbered Swiss bank account. This had rather spiked Harry's plan to turn most of the money he'd self-stolen into a sensible mix of 60% international index funds and 40% Berkshire Hathaway. For the moment, Harry had diversified his assets a little further by sneaking out late at night, invisible and Time-Turned, and burying one hundred golden Galleons in the backyard. He'd always always always wanted to do that anyway. Also, I'm in my thirties and I have no idea what international index funds are (much less Berkshire Hathaway). I can actually buy a science / science-fiction obsessed 11 year old Harriezer knowing the terms he shows off in the first few chapters more than suddenly being interested in financial manipulation. quote:Some of December 24th had been spent with the Professor reading Harry's books and asking questions. Most of the experiments his father had suggested were impractical, at least for the moment; of those remaining, Harry had done many of them already. ("Yes, Dad, I checked what happened if Hermione was given a changed pronunciation and she didn't know whether it was changed, that was the very first experiment I did, Dad!") quote:Harry had shown his mother the healer's kit he'd bought to keep in their house, though most of the potions wouldn't work on Dad. Mum had stared at the kit in a way that made Harry ask whether Mum's sister had ever bought anything like that for Grandpa Edwin and Grandma Elaine. And when Mum still hadn't answered, Harry had said hastily that she must have just never thought of it. And then, finally, he'd fled the room. ... Harry and family go off to visit Hermione and family, since both families are convinced that two eleven year olds liking each other is a sure sign that a marriage is on the horizon. At least that's consistent with the HP universe? And of course Harriezer is furious at being treated like an 11 year old. quote:Roberta took in her first sight of Professor and Mrs. Verres, who were both looking rather nervous, just as the boy with the legendary scar on his forehead turned to her daughter and said, now in a lower voice, "Well met on this fairest of evenings, Miss Granger." His hand stretched back, as though offering his parents on a silver platter. "I present to you my father, Professor Michael Verres-Evans, and my mother, Mrs. Petunia Evans-Verres." But he's even more infuriated about Hermione being treated like an eleven year old. quote:the problem with feeling sorry for yourself was that it never took any time at all to find someone else who had it worse. quote:The conversation had only just gotten started again when a distant high-pitched yelp floated back to them,
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Mar 17, 2017 11:34
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Wait, potions don't work on muggles?
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Mar 17, 2017 15:33
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Colin Mockery posted:I think there's something deeply ironic about the fact that the original book series has a not-insignificant theme regarding the inevitability of death and the contrast between the villain's (fittingly named "Flight from Death" in French) depraved/pathetic/desperate attempts to seek immortality, driven by a fear of the unknown and a fear of death, compared against the mentor figure's embrace and acceptance of death (and, in fact, his acceptance of an early death by the Killing Curse, in order to protect a child who has lost his way) as an inevitability that should not be feared.
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Mar 18, 2017 06:59
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Chapter 37: Interlude: Crossing the Boundaryquote:It was almost midnight. Not the least bit creepy. quote:"No one's supposed to know where I am!" said Harry, still keeping the shriek quiet. "Even owls are supposed to deliver my mail to Hogwarts, not here!" Harry had agreed to that willingly; it would be silly if a Death Eater could win the whole war at any time just by owling him a magically triggered hand grenade. quote:"Put on your winter coat," said Professor Quirrell, "or take a warming potion if you have one; and meet me outside, under the stars. I shall see if I can maintain it a little longer this time." Xander77 fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 12:53
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Chapter 38: The Cardinal Sinquote:Harry took out his wizards' robes quote:what he needed was something completely frivolous to occupy his attention... quote:Harry was just reading about the Ministry's proposed marriage law, to ban all marriages, when - Except written by Yudkowsky. Neville's grandma comes along to defend Harry: quote:"I doubt it is the world that is mad," said Madam Longbottom. Her voice took on a gloating tone. "You seem in a poor mood, Mr. Malfoy. Did the speech of our dear Professor Quirrell cost you a few allies?" Long story short: quote:"My son is my heart," said the senior Malfoy, "the last worthwhile thing I have left in this world, and this I say to you in a spirit of friendship: if he were to come to harm, I would give my life over to vengeance. But so long as my son does not come to harm, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. And as you have asked nothing more of me, I will ask nothing more of you." quote:"You have wrought many changes in my grandson," said Madam Longbottom. "I approve of some, but not others." quote:"What did you say to Father?" blurted Draco, the moment the Quieting Charm went up and the sounds of Platform 9 3/4 vanished.
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Mar 20, 2017 10:22
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Exercu posted:There's also the bit where Harriezer tries to sum up pre-socratic philosophy in "oh they believed "all is fire" or "all is water" without asking themselves the question how they could possibly know that" etc. which is a gross misconception of both Heraclitus and Thales, of course.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:01
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Cyrai posted:I haven't been able to follow much of anything for a while now.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:40
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