USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

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Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

greatn posted:

I'm very concerned about net neutrality suddenly becoming an extremely partisan issue. I mean good drat it, 80% of people agreed with it, and now the conservative media leaders have decided and now 45% of the people will always be against it and think Obamanet is a thing, and if any republican President is EVER elected it will be over.

Don't you know? Everything is partisan in Obama's America. Your food choices are partisan. Your clothing is partisan. Your job is partisan. Your cat and dog are partisan (my cat's probably a libertarian, tbqh). Romance is partisan. Christ, breathing is partisan.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2015 17:19

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 23:08

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Mr. Pool posted:

Is there any way this wouldn't be terrible? Say you overturned Citizen's United and the related money = speech, corporations = people legislation and decisions right before you booted up Democracy.net

I guess corporations would just double down on media control?

Imagine if you could pick up your smartphone and vote on a proposal that impacted millions. Then imagine your racist uncle being able to do the same thing.

For a more concrete example, take interracial marriage approval over history. When Loving v Virginia eliminated laws against it, over 70% of Americans disapproved of interracial marriage. It wasn't until 1991 when more people approved than disapproved...and less than 50% approved. And imagine what would've happened after 9/11. It's not like we already had enough crazy poo poo, I'm pretty sure you could've gotten the American public on board with nuclear bombing Afghanistan.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 05:13

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Fried Chicken posted:

So the SCOTUS is hearing a case today the looks to ban the use of independent districting commissions. The case is Arizona State Legislature v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission. In 2000, voters passed an amendment to the state constitution that set up an independent commission. This prevented the intense gerrymander seen in other states after the 2010 election. So the state Republican Party is suing. Because it is totally because the election clause says the power should lay with the legislature and they live the constitution so much, and not at all because they want to gerrymander the state to hell and back to secure their own power (In 2012 democrats won 5 of the 9 house seats but that is totally unrelated)

I for one look forward to our 5-4 decision that further undermines our ability to have good elections.

Four Democrats.

And looking at the maps they're the places you'd expect them. Which seems exactly what you'd want in districting!

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 15:45

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

What time/channel will be best to watch Bibi on tomorrow?

Here's the best place to watch the speech.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 03:34

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Nintendo Kid posted:

What makes you think redistricting committees in general prevent gerrymandering? A whole bunch of states have them and they just reinforce gerrymandering, even.

Arizona's does its job. Very few states use bi-partisan redistricting commissions to draw the lines without legislative intervention...which is what this case is about.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 06:29

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Nintendo Kid posted:

Yeah the thing is Idaho and Montana for example also have them and don't do particularly great. And New Jersey has two different ones, for US Rep seats and state legislature sets respectively, and there's a lot of blatant gerrymander fuckery there as well.

And then Arkansas, Pennsylvania, and Ohio are examples of states that only have the commissions for state legislature seats, and produce some pretty drat shady results.

Arizona and California's are a model for the rest of the country. If the Supreme Court upholds Arizona's law, I bet you'll see efforts to get similar initiatives on the ballot elsewhere, and if it overturns it, well, one of the best weapons against politicized redistricting is eliminated.

PupsOfWar posted:

how do you even go about gerrymandering in Montana

State legislatures. Which is not at all the matter at hand, but of course :fishmech:

This is also the only thing that Arizona is a model for, and you should probably ignore 99% of what Arizona does. This just happened to be a great idea back in 2000.

Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Mar 4, 2015

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 06:43

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

PupsOfWar posted:

mostly I'm confused in that I don't know where Montana liberals are located, physically, even though I know they exist based on the state's electoral history

in my head it's just

welp, District 6 can have some ranches and a town, District 7 can have these other ranches, a town, and the side of a mountain

Probably Bozeman and Missoula.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 06:50

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Samurai Sanders posted:

The main thing I took from all of this is how many awful small town police departments there are in the US, which are one police misconduct incident away from riots and national outrage. The next one could be anywhere.

Which is probably not far from the truth. People can put up with a lot before they pull out the protest signs, and Ferguson is kind of indicative of that. There's the (justified) feeling that their voices won't be heard, the very real possibility they could be assaulted, harassed, and arrested, and the fact that it takes so much time out of their lives that keeps people from protesting until there's that one incident that lights the powder keg.

The bigger question is why there are so many awful small town police departments that are one incident away from riots and national outrage. I mean, I know the answer (racism), but when America is littered with the little powder kegs you might think it'd encourage some introspection--most communities probably don't want to have that kind of light shined on them. Of course, all it'll encourage is the purchase of more surplus military gear :smith:

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 18:18

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Joementum posted:

USCP Lieutenant Eric Graves has advised the sledders of regulation 16.5.20, "Winter Activities at the Capitol: Sledding. No person shall coast or slide a sled within the Capitol Grounds."

A sledder replied that the regulation is "silly" and continued sledding. The standoff continues.

This is going to end with reality imitating the Onion, isn't it?

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 20:19

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

ComradeCosmobot posted:

The Florida bill that would jail transgender people who use the restroom of their true gender, and permit civil suits against businesses and organizations who do not enforce the law has made it out of the Florida House Civil Rights Subcommittee on party lines: 9-4

Jesus loving christ, that's horrible.

If (when :smithicide:

) this passes, could people offer ungendered bathrooms? I mean, that's a terrible 'solution' to the situation, but it's gotta be better than the alternatives.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 22:37

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Obama is going to veto so much over the next two years.

He's vetoed 3 in his Presidency so far.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 05:57

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Amergin posted:

Driving a wedge further between far-right and moderate conservatives by associating with a "RINO" is about the only political strategy left for the Dems.

Yeah it's pretty effective for tearing the Republican party apart.

I can't wait for the next wave of Tea Party primary challengers after two years of moderate Republicans actually trying to govern.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 20:52

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

a shameful boehner posted:

It is still so weird (but understandable) for everyone to refer to the "Tea Party" as a not-acronym. While I realize that typing "T.E.A. Party" every time would get really tiresome, it helps to remember that these fuckers are operating under the slogan "taxed enough already" right there in their party name.

I wish more people would remember that.

I thought it was a backronym after people kept calling them tea-baggers.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 21:02

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

Here's the thing, those Senators have thought through the potential of war with Iran and do not see it as an option to leave off the table. Its up to Iran to give us a deal which will survive this Congress---they know our terms for such a deal and refuse to. If they refuse to give us a deal, we will be forced to bomb. Bombing Iran is a very good thing.

A world with no Iranian state is preferable to a nuclear Iran.

Nobody sane thinks a protracted, bloody mess of a war that'd probably result in tens of thousands of dead Americans is a good idea.

Reflect on what this says about you.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 20:50

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

War with Iran wouldn't be a protracted affair, it'd be an air campaign that eliminates their energy sector and telecommunications grid completely. Whats a very poor Iran going to do, build a nuke while 60 million starve to death?

More room for Greater Kurdistan.

I too want to see 60 million people suffer for no discernible reason other than spite.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 21:06

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Fried Chicken posted:

Yeah, it won't go well at all, I just don't think that most of the American populace thinks that. It's been so long since there was a real knock down drag out brawling match of a war that I don't think people have the conceptual space to understand it.

I don't even know if the US military leadership has any real idea about how to execute a conventional war anymore. This is an honest ignorance; the US hasn't been involved in a conventional war since Korea (unless I'm missing one).

A tangential question: does anyone have any decent articles/books they can recommend about life in Iran? I know it's a very different place than it was right after the revolution and has modernized a great deal, but I'm mostly ignorant.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 21:37

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

hobbesmaster posted:

Its pretty amazing once you look into it a bit. Schwarzkopf flanked the Iraqi army in Kuwait and most of the Iraqis units just went "Welp, we surrender" when they were attacked from behind their fortifications.

Yeah, I looked it up, and he's right (in my defense I was 6 and just remember a lot of bombings on CNN). But whether that amounts to "the US military knowing how to engage in a conventional war", I don't know, especially since it was SO one-sided; Iraq in 1991 is a very, very different country from Iran in 2015. That's still 24 years ago.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 21:54

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Puck42 posted:

Not a book, but I really enjoyed Anthony Bourdain's Parts Unknown episode from inside Iran.

It's a country full of modern thinking people, especially the youths. It's sadly run by a horrible government.

If the government can ever get over thrown by the progressive Iranians, it could be a fantastic Middle East ally.
Bombing them should be the last thing we do.

Thanks, I'll try and watch it.

My Imaginary GF posted:

We don't need to invade Iran, we need to bomb them so that they have no energy infrastructure. Let them sort out the rest if they want us to stop bombing.

I know you don't care about anyone who isn't American or Israeli (and only then if they vote/live in Chicago), but I'm very sure those 60 million Iranians would be pleased as punch to watch America bomb them and I'm very sure that they wouldn't do anything to retaliate against the navy that would certainly be sitting in the Persian Gulf bombing them, and I'm even more sure that this would totally not vindicate the idea that Iran needs a nuclear weapon in the eyes of the Iranian leadership and people, no sirree.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 22:03

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

Because Iran getting a nuke guarantees they will continue to attack American interests. I'd rather 60 million Iranians die than one US embassy be bombed by Iranian state actors.

MIGF wants genocide.

Film at 11.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 22:12

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

American lives matter. The lives of citizens of America's allies matter, and their safety is an interest of the united states. The lives of terrorists and citizens of rogue states are forefeit until they earn them back.

What if they bombed a US embassy, while Iran possessed a nuke? What if Iran carried out 9/11, while Iran possessed a nuke?

What if aliens did 9/11.

Nuke space, just to be sure.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 22:21

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Fried Chicken posted:

Also we can't talk about nuking space without mentioning the hilarious clusterfuck that was operation plumbbob and how that lead to the Orion project, the space colonization plan for those who have the hard eyes realism and grit to do what really must be done to get our species to the stars

That was the greatest dumb idea.

"Let's just nuke [HAPLESS COUNTRY THAT WE PAY OR INVADE TO COLONIZE SPACE FROM] so that a spaceship can fly to Mars."

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 22:31

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

If they refuse to, then we cannot guarantee Iranian lives will continue to benefit from American protection against the consequences of Iranian policy.

This sentence is an utter masterpiece.

Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 22:44

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

evilweasel posted:

Getting enough weight to orbit is the hard part. It's not nearly as hard once you're there.

If someone decided to build a massive fuckoff spaceship they'd probably just send it up there in parts and build it in orbit nowadays. Kinda like an Ikea spaceship.

In the middle of the 20th century I gather they didn't really think that kind of poo poo through.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2015 00:00

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Relentlessboredomm posted:

Interestingly enough the major problem with long range planning in the US military is that it's almost solely focused on conventional war. Part of the reason we've struggled so mightily with Afghanistan and Iraq is because the military actively forgot every lesson learned from Vietnam and then refused to allocated any resources or future planning for asymmetric conflicts. This is actually a point that Gates talks about in depth in his book "Duty". He took over in the final two years of the Bush presidency and was appalled that the military planners refused to adjust for the current conflicts being fought. They were 100% focused on spending and strategic development for fighting Russia, China, Iran in a big conventional setting. Gates had to make MRAPs a personal pet project in order to get them funded and shipped to the forces in response to IED use because the military bureaucracy just loving refused to acknowledge that we haven't fought a straight conventional war in ages and allocating even a paltry sum to maintain readiness for asymmetric conflicts is anathema.

I just finished that book and while relatively bland, reading about the goddamn DoD bureaucracy is infuriating.

That's both hilarious and deeply depressing.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2015 02:04

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

zoux posted:

Yes that is what I am advocating by wanting Obama to be more forceful in his disagreement on this issue.

For what purpose would Obama call out Senate Republicans? It's already an embarrassment, and even if it can't get any worse for Obama in the eyes of right-wingers, why do it? Why give them anything when I can't see anything positive coming out of it? Him saying something won't change poo poo. And while it'll be useful as a campaign issue (would you vote for the fuckers that would undermine the President?), having Obama say something would make it blatantly partisan--it's useful that Obama doesn't wade in because Senate Democrats will use it and argue that Obama stayed out because the issue isn't partisan.

EDIT: There's a time and a place for Trollbama and this isn't it. The Iranians already got their sick burn in, Obama doesn't need to do anything to troll Republicans here.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2015 16:10

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

a shameful boehner posted:

McDonald's is suing the city of Seattle to stop their minimum wage hike...using the 14th Amendment to the Constitution (Equal Protection Clause) as justification.

The law has a slower phase-in for small businesses, apparently.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2015 02:42

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Jagchosis posted:

Yes and that is discriminatory against noted discrete and insular minority; small businesses

There are hundreds of regulations that apply to businesses based on their size. Their argument makes no sense :psyduck:

# ¿ Mar 11, 2015 03:31

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Joementum posted:

Quote of the morning, "Moreover, we have to stand up to Iran's attempts to drive for regional dominance. They already control Tehran." ~ Senator Tom Cotton, on CBS Face the Nation this morning.

Big, if true.

Woah, Obama done hosed up.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2015 19:54

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

If the Iranian Revolution were to occur today, Obama wouldn't do anything to save to the Shah, he'd allow Tehran to fall and American soil to be invaded.

The Ayatollah should be grateful we allow him to retain Tehran, and quit interfering in US interests. He's making it an American interest for no Iranian state to exist, as the more Iran attempts to gently caress with our good thing, the less willing we are to accept the status quo of "Iran exists as a nation-state."

Make sense to you? For a bipartisan supermajority of Congress, the non-existance of Iran is preferable to a nuclear Iran.

MIGF placed his hands on the ground. He looked at his inquisitor. This is my claim, he said. And yet everywhere upon it are pockets of autonomous life. Autonomous. In order for it to be mine nothing must be permitted to occur upon it save by my dispensation.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2015 21:29

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Radbot posted:

I asked for what I could do to make a change. I don't think working for the Democrats is going to make positive changes fast enough to avert climate change or another economic collapse, especially considering they've only made the milque-est of toast overtures to these ideas.

The only thing that is more annoying than watching Democrats actively work towards the destruction of the climate and the economy is their smug supporters who wave their tiny "at least we're better than them" flags.

Pick up your phone and call some group whose work you appreciate. Ask them how you can get involved.

If this doesn't satisfy you, well, realize that life is short and death is certain, so try and do what you can, and enjoy life.

Also, whiskey sours.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 17:10

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Fried Chicken posted:

The thing is, even setting aside all the real criticisms of doing it, education about privilege theory doesn't necessarily help all that much. You get plenty of people who are still bigoted shits who are all "I can't be racist, I'm aware of my privilege" just like you have "I can't be racist, I voted for Obama".

I've had students, when teaching out of The New Jim Crow, say that the data is too old to be useful (the data is from the early 2000s, so I'm really struggling here). Then, after denying that racism was a problem, started discussing how it's weird how racially divided our city is, and how weird it is that one of the members of the group gets followed when she goes shopping. But racism isn't a problem!

:psypop:

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 17:09

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

My Imaginary GF posted:

I've said it before, Obama dying his hair is his tell. Has been ever since his state senate days.

If he's dying his hair more now, that means Obama is disrespecting the office of Presidency by having hope for achieving something behind the backs of Congress and against the will of America's duly elected representatives.

I don't know what happened to your gimmick but your channeling Rahm was way more entertaining than your current schtick.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 22:47

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

CommieGIR posted:

It wouldn't be taught that way, even if that was the intended purpose.

If you attempted to push it as just that, a set of inspirational myths, the uproar would be phenomenal, especially in the South.

People are saying it'd be a good idea to teach it that way, not that you could actually do it properly in America.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 15:19

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Fried Chicken posted:

Illinois republicans want to make university of Illinois a "non public institute of higher education"

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...GAID=13&Session

Why do they want to eliminate the University of Illinois?

Oh wait, that's why.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 15:55

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Killer robot posted:

I figure it only dumps on anything if you make a map of proposals that pass and survive court challenges. Failed thrashing by shrinking minorities on the wrong side of history is more schadenfreude.

The problem is that some of these may survive challenge, and will make life miserable for people for years before they get overturned.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 15:57

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Killer robot posted:

So you're saying you agree with exactly what I said.

It sounded like you assumed they wouldn't pass/would be overturned quickly.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 16:07

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

ComradeCosmobot posted:

Call it a hunch, but I think it's because you can't make freedom of speech arguments against a ~~private~~ non-public institution for higher learning.

I actually thought it might be related to Salaita, but it doesn't make sense to me. It'd be an insane overreaction to a single case, and while the Republican Party is known for that, it's so over-the-top I'm guessing it has to do more with both blocking the lower classes access to higher education and "small government." Also, I imagine some of them want to make UI a for-profit institution :suicide:

Gravel Gravy posted:

Isn't that pretty much every university in the US though?

Look that new rec center ain't gonna build itself :colbert:

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 16:16

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

gently caress You And Diebold posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hMCevgPGjY

This is really funny.

As for Obama and Israel, I mean...look at it. Congress gave the finger to separation of powers, Bibi declared that the foundation of American foreign policy with the occupied territories is never gonna happen, and Israel gave sensitive intelligence to Congress. If Obama wasn't pissed as all hell, I'd be shocked. Hell, Obama has to say something, and there have to be consequences, since he can't embolden Republicans and make them think this is even remotely acceptable behavior.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2015 16:29

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Khisanth Magus posted:

I don't remember the fellas name, but it was essentially a poison pill amendment included by a GOP senator that required congress and their staff get their insurance on the exchange instead of the federal government provided plan. And it actually does the opposite of making them exempt, it forces them to use "Obamacare"(get insurance on the exchanges) instead of having an employer provided plan.

Chuck Grassley.

I wonder how smug he felt when he proposed it, and how defeated he felt when he realized that Democrats both knew what his game was and went along with it.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2015 22:45

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 23:08

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

J33uk posted:

Seriously it's really, oooooh hold on I have an urgent message from Barack in my inbox

The best one I ever got was with a subject: (none)

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 20:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

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