USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

«‹›172 »

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Aerox posted:

lack of basic knowledge about the government and an unwillingness to even read basic information seems so pervasive in the Conservative mindset.

Americans will only be able to operate a democracy again when you take it away and we have to start from scratch.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 19:12

meatpath: Feb 13, 2003

Aerox posted:

I usually just hide the post, but I've had to do that like four times today already on four separate statuses, and one it's right up there in my feed I can't help but read at least a few of them.

Just disconnect from that goddamn poo poo

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:07

Old James: Nov 20, 2003; Wait a sec. I don't know an Old James!

FAUXTON posted:

Tom "Sid from Ice Age" Cotton.

I prefer "Tehran Tom"

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:08

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Has Hillary signed the letter yet? :goshawk:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:08

Enigma89: Jan 2, 2007; by CVG

I don't even see the point of talking politics on facebook. People never get convinced to either side and it's not like you can have a great discussion on a tiny text box.

I always found it really awkward to read any sort of politically charged comments on FB. If you can't stop telling people why they are wrong on at least one website then you probably have some underlying problem :shrug:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:09

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

McDowell posted:

Americans will only be able to operate a democracy again when you take it away and we have to start from scratch.

So you're saying that the expansion of the franchise after 1787 is the problem? :dogbutton:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:09

SpiderHyphenMan: Apr 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

quote:

Was the GOP's Iran letter really unprecedented?

From Reagan to Clinton, both Democrats and Republicans have tried to sabotage the other party�s foreign policy.

By Michael Crowley

3/10/15 1:27 PM EDT

The senator was outraged. Congress had challenged the foreign policy of the president, ignoring that he is �the sole person to whom our Constitution gives the responsibility for conducting foreign relations.�

It was �an unconstitutional encroachment on the presidential prerogatives and power,� he fumed.

The words may sound like they come from a Capitol Hill Democrat, reacting to the Senate Republican letter to Iran�s leaders about their nuclear talks with President Obama. On Monday, Vice President Joe Biden said in a statement that those lawmakers were attempting to �undercut our President and circumvent our constitutional system.�

In fact, the angry speaker was Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah � reacting in 1987 to Congress�s passage of the Boland Amendment, cutting off U.S. aid to Nicaragua�s Contra rebels against the vehement wishes of President Ronald Reagan. (Some of those aides would ignore the ban, later producing the Iran-Contra scandal).
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal is pictured. | AP

Experts say the Senate GOP�s Iran letter may be an unprecedented breach of foreign policy protocol both in its form and its boldness. But national security has long been a fierce battleground between Congress and the White House � and both parties have accused the other of sabotaging foreign policy goals.

Recall the bilious battles over the Iraq War, particularly after Democrats captured Congress in 2006 with promises to force Bush to withdraw troops from Iraq. As Democrats sought to force withdrawal timelines on the White House, some conservatives sarcastically referred to then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as �General Pelosi.�

Pelosi and Bush also butted heads in the spring of 2007 on Syria policy. Against the White House�s wishes, the House Democratic leader traveled to Damascus to meet with Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad. (Pelosi hoped that Assad could be moderated through engagement; Bush was intent on isolating the Syrian dictator.) �The president is the one who conducts foreign policy, not the speaker of the House,� then- Vice President Dick Cheney groused to Rush Limbaugh.

Some conservatives even asked whether Pelosi might be prosecutable under the Logan Act, which prohibits unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. This week, the shoe was on the other foot, with some Democrats asking whether the Republicans who signed the letter may have violated the Logan Act.

Can a Republican Congress stop a nuclear arms control agreement it doesn�t like some other way? Just ask Bill Clinton: In 1999, Clinton�s White House was stunned when a GOP-led Senate rejected an international nuclear test ban treaty he�d signed three years earlier.

The New York Times said the vote � the Senate�s first rejection of a foreign treaty since 1920 � had �crushed one of President Clinton�s major foreign policy goals.� Clinton called the defeat of that pact, known as the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, �reckless partisanship� that posed risks �to the safety of the American people and the world.�

When Clinton asked Congress to support his 1999 bombing campaign over Kosovo, which was already underway, he urged GOP leaders to show that America �speak[s] with a single voice abroad.� But Congress refused to grant him its approval, and for good measure added a ban on ground troops that Clinton wasn�t even thinking of sending.

The fight between Reagan and Congressional Democrats in the 1980s over Nicaragua�s anti-communist Contras was as bitter as any of those disputes, and included charges of political sabotage from the White House against Democrats.

In late 1987 Jim Wright, then the Democratic House Speaker, met with Nicaraguan leader Daniel Ortega amid sensitive peace talks between Ortega�s government and the Contra rebels. At the time, Republican Senator Nancy Landon Kassebaum of Kansas suggested that Wright�s personal diplomacy might have violated the Logan Act, and Reagan later personally dressed Wright down in a private meeting.

�There have been many bitter battles� over the years, said Thomas Mann, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. But, he added, the tone of Monday�s letter to Iran from 47 Republican Senators may be in a league of its own.

�What�s unusual about this � but completely in tune with what�s happened in Washington in recent years � is the contempt with which it treats the president,� Mann said.

Can I get a factcheck on the validity of these equivalences, particularly the bolded incidents?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:09

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Yup, that all happened, and it's a decent outline of why we should make fun of Tom Cotton for being such an idiot in this instance, but not call him a traitor or threaten legal action.

Of course, the article leaves some things unsaid, like the fact that the Reagan administration wasn't exactly a faithful peace negotiator between Ortega and the Contras.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:18

richardfun: Aug 10, 2008; Twenty years? It's no wonder I'm so hungry. Do you have anything to eat?

Joementum posted:

The Senate just adopted a resolution calling for an investigation into the death of Boris Nemtsov. Too far?

Haven't they heard? There's five suspects in custody, one was kind enough to give a confession and Putin said he's personally overseeing the investigation.

Case is as good as closed. :rolleyes:

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:20

ReidRansom: Oct 25, 2004

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Can I get a factcheck on the validity of these equivalences, particularly the bolded incidents?

I see no reason to believe they didn't happen. What I'm more interested in is what the writer is trying to say here. If all those things were wrong, as was apparently suggested at the time, that means what the republicans did this week is still really hosed up. That it happened before doesn't excuse it happening again if it shouldn't have been done all the other times.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:20

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Joementum posted:

So you're saying that the expansion of the franchise after 1787 is the problem?

Nah we need a party with the platform that a vote for them will be the end of elections as we know them.

What happened with the Medical Marijuana bill?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:24

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

ReidRansom posted:

I see no reason to believe they didn't happen. What I'm more interested in is what the writer is trying to say here. If all those things were wrong, as was apparently suggested at the time, that means what the republicans did this week is still really hosed up. That it happened before doesn't excuse it happening again if it shouldn't have been done all the other times.

Those things are only "all wrong" if you side with the executive over policy always.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:26

JonathonSpectre: Jul 23, 2003; I replaced the Shermatar and text with this because I don't wanna see racial slurs every time you post what the fuck; Soiled Meat

Aerox posted:

I think the most infuriating thing about this Iran Letter debacle is that all of my social media stuff is filling up with people arguing about it, and I'm once again reminded that most conservatives (and quite a few liberals, but literally almost every conservative I see) have absolutely no clue about anything regarding even the most basic government procedures and are actively resistant to even the thought of educating themselves.

After using some facts and charts to straight-up demolish some "DURRRR HIGH TAXES ARE HIGH" stupidity, I have literally been told, verbatim, "Yeah, but you got those charts off Google, and everyone knows Google is liberal."

It really, honest-to-God is nothing but a religious belief system now. Who are we to try and understand? Brother Rush and Brother Sean will be by to explain right-think in only a moment.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:27

SpiderHyphenMan: Apr 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

ReidRansom posted:

I see no reason to believe they didn't happen. What I'm more interested in is what the writer is trying to say here. If all those things were wrong, as was apparently suggested at the time, that means what the republicans did this week is still really hosed up. That it happened before doesn't excuse it happening again if it shouldn't have been done all the other times.

"It's not really unprecedented this is just business as usual both sides do it!" I know these things happened, I just want to know whether or not they're equivalent to what the GOP has done here.

The thing with the rejection of the nuclear testing treaty confuses me, since I thought a treaty was an executive agreement that had been passed through Congress. Did the GOP do take-backsies on something that had been passed three years prior? Wasn't the Iran response to the letter basically "lol that would go against international law and take away any possibility of another nation negotiating with the United States about literally anything."

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:31

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Quote of the night, "Because Secretary Clinton has created more questions than answers, the Select Committee is left with no choice but to call her to appear at least twice." ~ Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC), Chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi, today.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:43

awesmoe: Nov 30, 2005; Pillbug

Joementum posted:

Quote of the night, "Because Secretary Clinton has created more questions than answers, the Select Committee is left with no choice but to call her to appear at least twice." ~ Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC), Chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi, today.

Honest question - what do these guys (or, specifically, what does Trey Gowdy) hope to achieve with this? Getting his name in the paper? A firm belief that this time she'll let slip that she did benghazi personally herself? Trying to get her negatives up?
What is the point, at this stage?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:52

Dr. Tough: Oct 22, 2007

I think a better question is why that select committee still or even exists in the first place

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:53

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

awesmoe posted:

Honest question - what do these guys (or, specifically, what does Trey Gowdy) hope to achieve with this? Getting his name in the paper? A firm belief that this time she'll let slip that she did benghazi personally herself? Trying to get her negatives up?
What is the point, at this stage?

I guess you could ask "what difference does it make?"

Dr. Tough posted:

I think a better question is why that select committee still or even exists in the first place

Because we should not deny our children the right to get to the bottom of Benghazi like we did.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:54

UV_Catastrophe: Dec 29, 2008; Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are,

"It might have been."; Pillbug

awesmoe posted:

Honest question - what do these guys (or, specifically, what does Trey Gowdy) hope to achieve with this? Getting his name in the paper? A firm belief that this time she'll let slip that she did benghazi personally herself? Trying to get her negatives up?
What is the point, at this stage?

A never-ending media background noise that constantly associates Hillary Clinton with nebulous Bad Things�.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:55

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Trey is doing this because he needs to boost his mailing list. He's going to run for Senate in SC the next time Graham's seat is up.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:56

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Dr. Tough posted:

I think a better question is why that select committee still or even exists in the first place

To maintain awareness of what they hope is their big anti-Clinton gun in 2016.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 01:57

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Stultus Maximus posted:

To maintain awareness of what they hope is their big anti-Clinton gun in 2016.

Plus there remains the slim chance that some Republican congressman can force Hillary Clinton into making a gaff under oath. That's the dream.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:03

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Bonus quote of the night, "I�ve never used Tinder." ~ Senator Cory Booker.

Also from that article, "How do I communicate? Tweet, statements, tweet, statements and sometimes we put out emails on general subjects, not really to communicate with people." ~ John McCain.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:07

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Just a reminder that Rep. Gowdy's committee released a report correctly concluding that nothing happened with Benghazi. So of course they're keeping that committee.

In bonus crazy news, Utah has voted to re-instate the firing squad due to lack of access to lethal injection drugs. Still unclear whether their governor will sign the bill.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UTAH_FIRING_SQUAD?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:14

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

FlamingLiberal posted:

Just a reminder that Rep. Gowdy's committee released a report correctly concluding that nothing happened with Benghazi. So of course they're keeping that committee.

I know this is hard to believe, because it's ridiculous, but that report on Benghazi (the seventh such) was released by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, not the House Select Committee on Benghazi, which has yet to release a report.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:17

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

The Texan judge overseeing the executive amnesty case is not happy that Obama granted work permits to DACA applicants before their applications were complete under the old system.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:20

Meg From Family Guy: Feb 4, 2012

JonathonSpectre posted:

After using some facts and charts to straight-up demolish some "DURRRR HIGH TAXES ARE HIGH" stupidity, I have literally been told, verbatim, "Yeah, but you got those charts off Google, and everyone knows Google is liberal."

It really, honest-to-God is nothing but a religious belief system now. Who are we to try and understand? Brother Rush and Brother Sean will be by to explain right-think in only a moment.

Conservatives are dumb as hell lol. They are retarded. They think the bad thing and we think the good thing.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:20

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Did anything newsworthy happen today or was the last few pages solely a zouxgument?

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:21

JonathonSpectre: Jul 23, 2003; I replaced the Shermatar and text with this because I don't wanna see racial slurs every time you post what the fuck; Soiled Meat

Meg From Family Guy posted:

Conservatives are dumb as hell lol. They are retarded. They think the bad thing and we think the good thing.

Actually I'd say "They think the things that are contradicted by three-dimensional physical reality and the entire history of the human race and we don't."

I also don't think they are retarded, just scared, angry, and spiteful.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:24

Meg From Family Guy: Feb 4, 2012

JonathonSpectre posted:

Actually I'd say "They think the things that are contradicted by three-dimensional physical reality and the entire history of the human race and we don't."

I also don't think they are retarded, just scared, angry, and spiteful.

:philhartmanedmcmahon: You are correct sir!

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:27

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

McDonald's is suing the city of Seattle to stop their minimum wage hike...using the 14th Amendment to the Constitution (Equal Protection Clause) as justification.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:38

Homura and Sickle: Apr 21, 2013

Meg From Family Guy posted:

Conservatives are dumb as hell lol. They are retarded. They think the bad thing and we think the good thing.

edit: ^^^^ Here is the brief

http://emarket.franchise.org/ComplaintIFASeattle.pdf

Small businesses are a suspect class. Lol.

Homura and Sickle fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Mar 11, 2015

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:39

BlueBlazer: Apr 1, 2010

JonathonSpectre posted:

Actually I'd say "They think the things that are contradicted by three-dimensional physical reality and the entire history of the human race and we don't."

I also don't think they are retarded, just scared, angry, and spiteful.

Keeping this one for later.

To argue vs one of these you have to wade through so much wrong you can may never break through.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:42

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

a shameful boehner posted:

McDonald's is suing the city of Seattle to stop their minimum wage hike...using the 14th Amendment to the Constitution (Equal Protection Clause) as justification.

The law has a slower phase-in for small businesses, apparently.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:42

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

a shameful boehner posted:

McDonald's is suing the city of Seattle to stop their minimum wage hike...using the 14th Amendment to the Constitution (Equal Protection Clause) as justification.

Corporations are people. People with more wealth taxed on a higher bracket then lower. Power of taxation.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:47

Homura and Sickle: Apr 21, 2013

Ghost of Reagan Past posted:

The law has a slower phase-in for small businesses, apparently.

Yes and that is discriminatory against noted discrete and insular minority; small businesses

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:48

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

The way to start and end every online bickering session is with a simple question: "Before I engage any of your points, is there any information I could present that would cause you to rethink and reverse your opinion. If there is, I'm happy to debate. If there isn't, this isn't a discussion, it's you yelling at the sky."

I've done this and surprisingly had about a 50% success rate of turning people around. The other half of the time, they get the public shame of being called out on being "old man yells at cloud"

# ? Mar 11, 2015 02:58

Mr Ice Cream Glove: Apr 22, 2007

Washington religious conservatives don't like two things

We don't want to hire baby killers

http://dailysignal.com/2015/03/09/should-pro-life-organizations-be-forced-to-hire-pro-choice-employees/

quote:

Conservatives are urging Congress to overrule two pieces of legislation that could force religious and pro-life employers in the nation�s capital to do business in ways that go against their beliefs.

The first bill in question, called the Reproductive Health Non-Discrimination Act (RHNDA), seeks to protect individuals from being discriminated against by an employer based on their reproductive health decision-making.

Because the language, as written, provides no exemption for religious or political groups, conservatives argue that it could force employers in the District of Columbia to hire employees regardless of their stance on abortion and religious freedom.

Or allow gay groups

quote:

The second bill under review, called the Human Rights Amendment Act (HRAA), seeks to prohibit religious-affiliated schools from discriminating against gay and lesbian student groups.

Conservatives argue this would infringe on the ability of private schools to operate according to their religious beliefs by forcing them to support a student-led gay pride parade despite the school�s stance on homosexuality, for example.

Heritage Foundation:

quote:

�Congress should do this because no governmental entity should force a citizen to promote or pay for abortion, or violate their beliefs that men and women are made for each other in marriage and that sexual relations are reserved for such a union,� wrote Ryan T. Anderson and Sarah Torre, two of Heritage�s leading experts in religion and civil society. �These policies will saddle religious organizations and employers with a choice between complying with coercive laws that force them to violate their religious beliefs and organizational missions and staying true to their beliefs in defiance of unjust laws.�

# ? Mar 11, 2015 03:02

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Old James posted:

I prefer "Tehran Tom"

Fun fact: the Democrat who called Cotton "Tehran Tom" was Jared Polis of Colorado, who was also the subject of that Reason Magazine cover story on gamer culture. Polis unwinds by playing Diablo and Civ V.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 03:22

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 19:12

SpiderHyphenMan: Apr 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

FlamingLiberal posted:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UTAH_FIRING_SQUAD?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Maybe this will backfire and end up doing away with the death penalty like the rest of the civilized ahahahahha gently caress everything.

# ? Mar 11, 2015 03:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

«‹›172 »