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I will say that, as nervous as this makes me, I will try my best to make this interesting and follow the guidelines.
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Mar 22, 2015 06:28
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Steam posted:Best of luck with this Shrimpy. I've gotten to be able to see you grow up over the years from your posts on /m/ and whatnot. I know sometimes I've said stuff you haven't liked (like when I trolled your twitter feed a little while) but this is a good group of people who want to help you feel better about anime and life in general. And personally, although sometimes what you say can make me mad or disappointed, you're not a bad person. The fact you're willing to at least *try* to do this is something you should find strength and pride in, because not everyone in your shoes would be able to. I will admit I am scared. But I normally get huge performance anxiety in situations like this. It's sort of like being given an important role in Drama club, and not wanting to screw up. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 07:07
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Still in the process of making a decision, but can paper lion clarify why Brain Powered must be viewed in dubbed format? That's making it a little trickier to find.
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Mar 22, 2015 08:10
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Paper Lion posted:clawshrimpy get on skype and i can help you find the shows you need. After some digging, I found what I needed.  Still mulling it over, but I should have which I'm gonna do decided by the start time. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 15:17
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I've made my decision, and I have watched the first episode. Overman King Gainer Episode 1 (I'm praying to god paper lion's approval means it's okay to pick it as a 4th option in addition to what's in the OP.) This first episode is very very confusing. You get introduced to so many characters and so much backstory and proper names for things in the world in the first 5-10 minutes it's hard to even understand what's going on. Now, that's not to say that the worldbuilding is bad, it's actually kind of interesting! But the problem I think I'm having, is that the way it's done is kinda awkward and the show moves to establishing a really, really fast pace quickly to get the action started. We learn a little bit about the main character Gainer Sanga, and the other characters like Gain and the princess, and the villains (The Siberian Railway army) sort of very briefly in passing, but for the most part it tries to keep things moving to get to the action setpieces and spends more time showing off the titular mecha's capabilities off more than anything else. Some of the other characters like those two classmates of Gainer's that are helping with the Exodus don't seem to be that present in the first episode, but I'm sure we'll see more of them in later episodes. I jsut hope the lack of character development and clarity on the worldbuilding is just coming from this breakneck pace the show has so far. Which is kinda disappointing as Gain and Gainer do have an interesting chemistry together, and the worldbuilding would be very interesting if it was less confusing. In particular, I like this concept that humanity is being forced to live in these domes because of the harsh conditions of the world, it reminds me a lot of the domes in Big O for some reason. I kinda really don't like human/millitary antagonists in general, but so far the Siberian Railway is not quite as starkly black as your Zanscares or Brittanias. Seems more like they are just misguidedly trying to protect people, because the outside world is dangerous, and maybe it isn't worth it to go out and look for those places that are becoming habitable again, that it's simply easier to live in the Domopolis. Unfortunately that kinda has the uncomfortable implication that they just want control over people, like any tolitarian military in any real robot work, which I still dislike, especially if they're willing to imprison people that are initially completely innocent like Gainer just to find anyone who MIGHT be part of the Exodus movement, but hey, at least they didn't beat him in an interrogation room like the Titans did to Kamille, so..... Now I know it's a first episode, so I do realize that a fast pace and being light on character and plot is often neccecary and high on action is needed to hook viewers, but I just find it disappointing considering the backstory that dumped on in the beginning and all the characters we meet getting kinda scant development in favor of prison breaks, on foot action, and robot fights. However, I can say that the action looks interesting at least, and the twist that Overman Piloting is a very physically straining thing is a neat twist for the end of the episode. I just really hope this over-emphasis of getting into the action at the cost of everything else is only a first episode thing and not a trend.
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Mar 23, 2015 02:07
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dogsicle posted:The OP definitely sold me on starting the show back when I watched it last year. I definitely see where Shrimpy is coming from though, it took me several months before I felt like giving the show a real try, because the first couple episodes felt mind-bogglingly fast. It's a really solid and fun show though, and the dub is really great. I'm excited to see his reactions, especially to some of the mechanical designs and my favorite characters. I'm actually watching it subbed personally, I just like Gainer's Japanese voice a lot more than his dub one. Although I'll admit Gain is a little better in the dub
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Mar 23, 2015 04:34
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Bad Seafood posted:The only thing I know about Overman King Gainer is that it has a Eh, the ED is way better, IMO.
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Mar 23, 2015 04:36
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OP.
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Paper Lion posted:Shrimpy, did any specific lines (I don't need perfect quotes, but the jist and context will suffice) immediately stick out to you while watching as things that could potentially become thematically relevant? That is to say, things that seemed like they could be part of a larger concept that the show would explore. If so, which bits and why? If not, then why? Well, there were a few things. Well, there was the big virtual singer/dancer's song and dance, about going to the east, and leaving on the Exodus, which makes sense since the Exodus team was using the festival as a diversion, so it could have possibly been used as a form of propaganda to get people to come with them rather than just stay where the Siberian Railway wants them, or to just to get people to simply distrust the Railway leaders. I get the feeling Gain's nickname Black Southern Cross has some meaning I don't get yet. That's all that's coming to mind at the moment. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 04:55
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Bad Seafood posted:Cast/otterthings/robots dancing > protagonist having an acid trip I will concede this I just think the song is better
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Mar 23, 2015 04:56
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Clever Spambot posted:I disagree with the assumption that everything else was super fast paced just to get to the action, the action was very fast and passed over just as quickly as the scenes that established the world and the characters. Its more that tomino likes throwing his audience into the thick of things and establish a ton of stuff that will be elaborated on/explored in more detail later. Which makes it easy to not understand everything that is happening in his shows right away. There are obvious pros and cons to doing things this way but i definitely prefer it to the way most animes are often slow and deliberate and over explain every plot point. I guess that's true, didn't think of it that way! Maybe what more bothered me is just the speed how everything shifted around was a little jarring? dogsicle posted:I figured it would be easier to follow by watching the dub...and then all the voices just kinda grew on me! Gainer's dub voice is honestly pretty bad, like he consistently has bad readings, so the sub is better off in that sense. Given the kind of character Gainer is, I just came to associate his really awkward lines with him as a character and it became endearing. There were a few other dub voices that bothered me a lot, though, like I found the princess kind of grating in the dub, her Japanese voice works way better.
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Mar 23, 2015 05:12
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everythingWasBees posted:The speed is something to get used to, and unfortunately seems to be something he's started doing in his newer series like G-Reco. That said once you get used to it (and you will,) it's kinda refreshing and allows for a really nice natural exposition. Characters develop and reveal information about themselves at a natural pace, and the world slowly builds upon itself to become richer and richer. You're not supposed to understand everything now, and as you go through it actually creates a really deep feel for the world. I dunno, it was one of the things that made it and g-reco hard to watch and was very different from how a lot of shows seem, but once you get used to it it's kinda refreshing. I know it's kinda stupid to expect to know everything in one episode, didn't mean it to come off that way! Even the few shows I do really like keep their reveals and details secret for a while. It probably has to do with the fact that since the episode is framed to be quick for story reasons, the prison escape, the stealing of the Overman, and fighting their way through the Railway Silhouettes to make their escape, that it feels a little fast for me. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 05:31
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tsob posted:Yes, and gently caress you for reminding me that I'll never read it Broniki since King Gainer is a pretty good show all told and I'd have liked to read the manga since the anime doesn't actually do that great a job exploring it's setting and so on in my opinion. I found Xabungle to be a much stronger show that runs on much the same lines, since it's both far funnier and does a better job filling out it's setting. King Gainer is still a solid show though, and has, if nothing else, an amazing OP and some great mechanical designs. There's some great characters too, but I don't want to say too much since Shrimpy is just started watching it and all. Sadly, I didn't pick Xabungle over Gainer for a few reasons 1. it's the only show on the list you can argue for being Super Robot, as such, it bares the highest risk of me winding up breaking rule 2, and I wanted to reduce that risk.  2. I couldn't really get used to the animation style of it, I feel Xabungle really, really shows it's age moreso than a lot of other 80s anime. Hell, even God Mars, as full of animation gaffes and "Lets do zoom in's of a still image so we don't have to animate anything!" as it is still looks cleaner than Xabungle. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 05:56
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Okay, it's time to talk about the second episode, I think. Now, I have to admit, I'm considerably more nervous about this write-up, mostly because I do not have a lot of nice words for this episode. The rules of the challenge say I have to be honest, so I can't just sit here grinning pretending I like everything about the show and ignore what I dislike or find un-nerving. Overman King Gainer Episode 2 Before I actually talk about other things that happen in the episode, I feel I have to explain why I really dislike the direction taken with Gainer's character this episode, it's simply an unavoidable problem I have with the episode that I simply can't ignore. So after Gainer catches his breath and stuff after not feeling good after piloting the Overman, It's revealed that Gain got caught by the SIberian Railway on purpose to help cause the Exodus, for..... SOME REASON Gainer gets really upset and indignant about this, and walks up and tries to hit Gain, the guy who got him out of prison and helped him out, several times until Gain is forced to knock him out in self-defense, going on about he hates the Exodus, yet in the first episode he seemed pretty okay with the idea of the Exodus then so...... Yes, I know when talking about other shows I've talked about how I feel about characters on the same side (especially the good guys side) attacking each other and poo poo to death. And honestly? At first, I was willing to overlook it. That complaining about this type of stuff is what got me in trouble so much when I tried to explain why I didn't like certain other shows and the like. So at first I wanted to stop myself, and put this particular thing aside as though it never happened, and write it off as Gainer just reacting to have been lied to a bit too hastily because he was exausted still. But Gainer keeps up this awkward antagonism towards people who SHOULD be his new allies! Firstly, why does he hate the Exodus so much now, just by being tricked over a really minor thing? He seemed pretty cool of going along with the Exodus in the first episode! Anyway, he gets onto the Bachlone (sp?) thing that part of the Exodus convoy, and he starts being a gigantic jerk to everyone. First, it takes the poor mechanic kid several asks just to finally wring a "Sorry for making you have to clean up my puke" out of Gainer, and this is after He goes on about how he hates Exodus, and that he doesn't want to leave Domepolis. But it gets even better! He's insisting that the Overman is his property and he's taking it back with him! "I used it once and wrote my name on it, therefore is it mine! Despite how bad you might need it, I don't want to use it to help you." And he only helps BECAUSE the Railway army attacks at a convenient time! I mean, I get it, he's supposed to be the only one who Pilots the titular mecha, but they could've came up with something that doesn't make Gainer a huge selfish jerk. I mean gently caress even GUNDAM SEED at least came up with the whole "The Strike's OS is so obtuse only a Coordinator like Kira could pilot it, and when a Natural tried he failed." but having the main character going "IT'S MINE I SIGNED MY NAME ON IT" is so petty and melodramatic that it's ridiculous. What reason would Gainer have to stay at his home? Wouldn't they just throw him in jail again? Plus if keeping his super cool robot he named after himself is so important, I don't think the Railway army is just going to let him keep it, because of the little problem that it's stolen. When I'm pretty sure Exodus would totally still let him pilot the thing if he just plays along with his new comrades and helps out with the Exodus. I guess he comes to that realization sort of and the end, where he proclaims that he's leaving! As soon as he's paid his debt to Gain so he can go back home with that stolen robot that's totally his because he wrote his name on stolen property. Look, I liked Gainer as a character in the first episode, it's just.... god they took his character in such an unlikable direction this episode. But obviously, that's not all that happens in the episode, though. Thankfully, when Gainer is out there fighting, his jerk persona does go away and his more awkward but willing personality from the first episode returns. Sara, his classmate does get to give him a few good "what the hell!" moments, which he TOTALLY had coming and it's completely deserved. And as much as I do hate millitary force villains, I really like Jin. I like his personality, he isn't just a yelly brute force type and shows himself to be pretty clever. His Overman, Rush Rod (what is it with Tomino coming up with the worst names imaginable for things?) is pretty cool and has loving bellows that shoot fire and on top of that, since I'm watching the subs, he's voiced by a Japanese voice actor I very much recognize. Also, the Duke shows up to try and get his daugther back and to plead with everyone to please come back and to not go, and it's revealed they need people to stay in the dome because they need to be able to sell food and supplies to people. So it's not only tolitarian control and being able to imprison anyone they don't like, but the Exodus would also break up this little Cartel they have going. No wonder their willing to squander most of their profits on building robots to keep people inside, Gotta spend money to make money, I suppose. I should clarify that I didn't hate this episode, the other stuff and worldbuilding were fine! I just really, really didn't like the direction they decided to take the main character this episode. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 23:39
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Sharkopath posted:Gainer has a good reason to dislike the exodus and the people who run it.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:50
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Clever Spambot posted:I was honestly expecting you to dislike Gain moreso than Gainer after that episode because the second episode established Gain as a guy who is all for the ends justify the means and using people to make sure the exodus goes smoothly. I dunno, the Siberian Railway make it pretty clear that even before you actually commit terrorism it's perfectly okay to throw you in jail even when you're not even guilty. I think between Gain and them, it's a lesser of two evils here.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:55
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Clever Spambot posted:Yes, i do consider Gain better than a fascist state that wants to keep people trapped in a dome so they can continue collecting their taxes and selling them stuff, but that does not make him necessarily a good person even if he clearly has his reasons for doing what he is doing. I suppose not, and maybe it wouldn't be as big of a deal if Gainer didn't decide to extend his jerk attitude to the others and not just Gain. I mean not apoligizing for "hey you kinda had a big bout of nausea in here, it was pretty gross!" until you get bothered by it enough to offer a weak apology just seems like a rude thing to do. But at least he didn't act too bad during the actual fight, though.
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Mar 24, 2015 00:05
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Paper Lion posted:That was a good write up Shrimpy and I am glad that you understood to just pour it all on the page. We are here to talk about your thoughts, positive or negative, and if you come out of this somehow hating the show, as long as you have had reasonable discussion and are willing and able to see what the other side thinks and why we like it, then it is still a good thing! I suppose so, it's just jarring because I did really like him in the first episode, and now he flips around to being almost like one of the kind of mecha protagonists I don't like at all, the one who pushes back against everyone around them in a burst of anger despite them not actually meaning them harm at all, like Shinn from SEED Destiny or Kamille from Zeta. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 00:19
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tsob posted:I gotta ask this, because it's something I've noticed about Shrimpy and I'm wondering just how true it is, but have you ever liked a character in a show that you wouldn't like as a person in real life Shrimpy? Because you seem unable to separate the two in your posts. I also don't think you really ever consider how context or history influences a character at any given moment as Paper Lion indicated. You seem to expect everyone to be nice all the time essentially, which isn't how people act in reality, never mind in fiction. Yeah, but the characters I did like that way had one thing in common, they were antagonists, not protagonists. And the only reason I'm okay with Gain is I don't think what he did was all that bad compared to some other anti-hero/IMO outright villainous protagonists I've seen before. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 00:35
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Paper Lion posted:Did anything said in this episode harken back to episode one in a way that seemed like a promising thematic lead to you? That is to say, were there any statements that seemed to be related to previous ones, and made in a way that seems to indicate that it's a topic of interest for the show to explore rather than a passing idea? I think maybe the line Gainer says when fighting with Adette in the first episode about "Is this really how grownups do things?" ducktailing into his huge grudge with Gain, maybe?
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Mar 24, 2015 00:45
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NecroMonster posted:People don't generally react super well when others abuse or take advantage of them. I suppose so, but consider in Gurren Lagann that Kamina did much, much worse things to Simon and Simon took it and allowed Kamina to change him so readily, and yet that's supposed to be completely okay, but Gain, someone who actually didn't do much other than not be completely straightforward with Gainer is apparently way more of a monster than Kamina was? Simon had way more of a reason to stand up to Kamina and he never, ever did. And Consider that I don't think Gain is the type who'd bother to push his agenda, whatever it might be on Gainer, and would be more like "hey as long as you keep the Railway army off our back I'll give you food and a home and let you keep using the robot anyway, and when this is all over you can keep it. After all, it's should be clear to you now how the Railway treats it's citizens."
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Mar 24, 2015 01:44
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Endorph posted:Clawshrimpy, just curious: is it unacceptable for characters to act in mean or cruel ways? It's one thing if the show glorifies it or treats it as okay, but the show's not really on Gainer's side. It presents his reaction as understandable, but it doesn't make him one hundred percent in the right. Sometimes people, even people who are usually wonderful, can lash out in anger or confusion. It's part of the human condition. I don't think Gainer having an extreme reaction to an extreme situation - having literally everything he knows uprooted just due to his name - makes him unlikable or a bad person, especially since he's already shown coming around. It just makes him human. Well, I just didn't think Gainer needed to react like this, certain have some angst about it, certainly maybe be apprehensive, maybe hesitate to go out to fight the second time, but why the big melodramatic shitshow?
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Mar 24, 2015 01:48
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Endorph posted:Did Kamina really do that much bad to Simon, though? He punched him, like, once, in a crisis situation where everyone was on edge and he needed Simon to move or they were all going to die. He threw rocks at Simon, but he never actually *hit* Simon with one so it was pretty clearly just him going overboard with practice and not him literally trying to kill Simon. In the very second episode Kamina was very passive aggressive with Simon for running away. When Kamina didn't physically abuse him, he was verbally abusing him, with either passive-aggressive poo poo about being a coward, or just plain yelling about how YOU MUST ALLWAYS BE A MAN. Nothing Gain did to Gainer was even remotely that bad to warrant that reaction.
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Mar 24, 2015 01:52
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Motto posted:Simon and Kamina have pretty massive mutual admiration, even if Simon isn't aware of it. Any poo poo Kamina gives Simon is because he knows that Simon isn't a coward, and when it comes down to it he'll listen to Simon over his own desires, like in the first fight against the walking fortress. Plus any physical stuff shouldn't be taken completely seriously since TTGL is goofy, and exaggerated and King Gainer isn't? We just had a robot use bellows that shoot fire this episode.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:08
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Paper Lion posted:He's speaking stylistically, not in terms of content. The way Looney Tunes is animated is not always purely literal, whereas the animation in, say, Gundam is. That change in style makes the reality the characters live in slightly more malleable, and therefore creates a contrast in what you see, what actually is happening, and what its effects actually are. The gut punch Gain gives Gainer is visceral and not too "cartoony" so it feels heavy, hard, and painful. You can understand how it would knock Gainer down and KO him. Compare that to the way TTGL animates, and the actions have less of that weight and realism to them, so their effects diminish or are even nonexistent at times and are simply visual representations of intention rather than an actual action taken. Except the punch Kamina does to Simon is completely unprovoked, where Gain was just defending himself from Gainer attacking him over not being straightforward.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:14
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dogsicle posted:So is this an early indicator that GL would be better off added to the "don't mention it" list with GGG? .....gently caress try so hard to not break rule 2 and fall into a completely different trap.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:16
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Artum posted:Getting someone to focus on the task at hand when its everyones lives and the freedom of humanity on the line isn't really unprovoked though? It's more unprovoked than just defending yourself from someone overreacting to being lied to.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:29
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Look let's get back on track here. My whole point is that it felt really unnatural for Gainer to react that way just because Gain's a little aloof and doesn't tell the truth sometimes or at least conceals the truth just to avoid problems down the road. Some things are just better left unsaid, and unfortunately the squad leader let something slip. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 02:39
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tsob posted:That isn't why he does it though. Or at least, it's not solely why he does it. That's just the straw that broke the camel's back as it were. The fact that Gain has caused Gainer's life to get completely screwed up and doesn't seem to care, that his worldview has been entirely upset, that his friends appear to be in on this and that his future is not only uncertain but in the hands of bandits and will be a lot less comfortable than he is used to are all much bigger causes at the end of the day. The fact the two of them have similar names was not either of their fault, it's more the fault of the Siberian Railway for loving arresting people for very flimsy justifications.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:44
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glomkettle posted:You may or may not empathize more with Gainer once you know a little more about his reasons for hating the Exodus. Even not knowing his reasons, I personally thought the scene was believable, but that's largely a matter of opinion. I just find it confusing because after Gain and Gainer break out of Prison in episode 1, Gain actually asks him if he wants in Exodus, and rather than show any reluctance, he says yes.
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Mar 24, 2015 03:00
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Clever Spambot posted:He stuttered out a "yes" just before they took off on a motorcycle, which i consider a type of reluctance but i do see your point about how that would be confusing. That's sounds more like his usual nerdy awkwardness more than "I really don't want to join people like them."
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Mar 24, 2015 03:09
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Clever Spambot posted:I interpreted it more as the whole he is running through the whole first episode on adrenaline thing, with all the crazy poo poo that just happened he probably didn't really register or understand the question. Also I didnt really notice him being stuttery or awkward in many other scenes.
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Mar 24, 2015 03:22
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I just went ahead and watched the 3rd episode rather than let this one episode dwell on me. Overman King Gainer Episode 3 I think this is a much better episode than the last one, but parts of it still make me kinda un-nerved. Rather than keep Gainer on the same angry path he was on last episode, he's much more subtle for his disapproval of Exodus in this one, which is how I felt he should've reacted in the first place. By that I mean instead of be incredibly rude to everyone he's living with now, the most he's doing is skipping school and insisting to Sara that he has a reason for not going to school (because they actually managed to pack the school into the convoy on the Exodus somehow.) ANd I feel that Gainer has more meaningful discussions than what was presented last time, particularly with Sara. The reveal obviously being that both of Gainer's parents were killed with Anti-Exodus flyers in their hands, implying they were killed by Exodus members. And the only reason he's helping and fighting now, like he does against Jin's Rush Rod, is because he wants to save lives, even if they are a group he dislikes. But I think more importantly, we're demonstrated just how amoral the Exodus really is, as Gain reveals they'll let sick people die if they slow them down due to lack of medicine or if people get too sick, to use medicine for "mercy killings". On one hand I do really like this episode for presenting Gainer in a much better light, but on the other hand, it's still kinda hard to root for the heroes when some of them support poo poo like this. Particularly, as an autistic person, I actually find this to be kind of offensive, if only because of the real life cases of parents and caregivers "mercy killing" their autistic children and all that kinda poo poo. So now, the sides have flipped, Gainer and Sara have become the likable ones, and Exodus and Gain have suddenly jumped up quite a bit on the unlikability scale for me, if only for hitting a potential trigger of mine. Sure the SIberian Railway are trying to control and tax people and are evil, but at least they're not advocating for mercy killing the sick slowing them down. SO now the show's entered this kind of dark place where both sides are actually really evil in different ways, and the only ones is Gainer and possibly Sara and maybe the princess walking away with any goodness in them. But even Sara and the Princess spend a lot of time in the pro-Exodus camp, but at least Sara came around to Gainer's way of thinking a little. And now, other than Gainer and a few other standing outside of it, the two sides have entered that black on black morality I often describe early Gundam as. The battle was quite interesting with the reveal of Rush Rod's OverSkill, the ability to stop time with a rainbow beam. Which leads to Jin doing some pretty interesting stuff like stopping time in the snow to trap King Gainer in the avalanche, or to un-freeze time to use the Exodus squad's own bullets against King Gainer. And at the end, King Gainer stops time, revealing the development of it's own Over Skill, which was pretty neat. Oh and the one lady from the Siberian Railway gets aboard the Exodus place and tries to take the Princess, but Gain stops her in a scene that, in addition to that poo poo about mercy killing the sick, really makes me more uncomfortable with Gain since he pins her to a bed and when she tells him to kill her he insists it's better for her to father his children instead, which any way I look at it, feels like "rape humor" to me, which really isn't helped by the fact he has her pinned on a bed with her gun to her head. Granted Adette gets away from that, but I won't lie when I say that I kinda feel like poo poo for liking Gain early on! Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 04:42
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But keep in mind that everyone, including the princess in this episode have been pro-exodus, except for Gainer and maybe Sara starting to come around to way he's thinking. meanwhile everyone else is still siding with Gain despite him sitting there in a restaurant going "Hey we might need to engage in eugenics. It's a good idea." When all but two characters either agree with a eugenicist like Gain or support the facist tolitarian state that wants to collect on taxes, it really doesn't make me feel too good. I mean, I can appreciate this is a ...... LITTLE happier than Tomino's older stuff but.... I dunno, the eugenics/mercy killing stuff is hard for me to get over. Like I've went from being pretty okay with Gain to legitimately wanting him to be killed off as fast as possible. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 14:20
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tsob posted:I think you need to entertain the very real possibility that Clawshrimpy genuinely believes this to be true of shows like Gundam and even King Gainer, regardless of the fact there's genuine good in each of those sides goals, methods and personnel and that there are no other factions to pick in most cases. Except the only person who isn't even on any of the sides is Gainer, and when it's only one person, maybe two, in a sea of horrible people, yeah......
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Mar 24, 2015 14:46
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tsob posted:I doubt he really thinks about it, but simply prefers to watch simpler shows like GGG because they conform to how he feels people should be and don't raise any uncomfortable situations or ideas without idealistic solutions. I seem to recall that when pushed before on /m/ he thought more shows should have starkly black and white characters/situations to give people role models they could look to, and not have more morally grey stuff regardless of the fact it conforms more to how people and the world are because it's bad and people shouldn't be bad in real life basically. This wasn't just stuff for kids either, but stuff for adults too. I'm aware there is a lot of stuff that is ostensibly for adults like this, but he thought people should only watch or want this stuff regardless of how unrealistic those expectations are of the real world from what I recall. If it's a question of the resources being thin, they why go out of your way to use some of the medicine to kill the people slowing you down? This is the dangerous precedent Gain's thinking leads to, a dangerous little thing called "cure culture". What if it doesn't stop at simple resorurce based triage and keeping alive the more "worthy" people (which is still horrible) but what if it opens the same floodgates that leads to the same ableism present in real life? Hypothetically speaking, imagine there was someone on the exodus convoy things who was say, autistic. let's say this someone has a hard time doing anything of "worth" (as loving disgusted as I am to suggest that) in the eyes of the Exodus leadership, can't hold down a job, can't help prepare food, can't pilot a Silhouette Engine, etc. Gain or someone like him could decide an autistic like them is someone "slowing them down" and use some medicine to end their life because they're so "broken" they can't preform any "useful function". It is unbelievably wrong. Why? Because this horrible poo poo still happens to neuroatypicals in real life. There was recenly a Disability Day of Mourning to remember those neuroatpicals who died to such ableism. I'm not saying Gain wants to do that, but that's what his dangerous way of thinking can lead. When you're already considering only saving the lives that are "more worthy", cure culture and ableist ideas surrounding eugenics is only a hair's breadth away.
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Mar 24, 2015 18:06
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tsob posted:They're not horrible people though - they're good people considering bad things, either out of desperation due to hard times, or because their lives and circumstances have indoctrinated them to think what we accept as horrible is either necessity or even a good idea. And there is a difference between bad people and good people thinking or doing bad things. Just because someone is considering something you think is horrible does not make them a horrible person. A horrible person is generally someone who does bad things either without regret or with genuine pleasure - a good person will at the least show some hesitation or regret over those same actions, and in many cases with be bothered long after having done it by the actions they did and let it effect their character to help prevent needing to make that choice in the future. I'm sorry, but even considering anything approching eugenics makes you a loving garbage human being
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Mar 24, 2015 18:14
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Nine of Eight posted:Instead of seeing it as "murdering with medicine", how about you see it as easing suffering? I know we're talking about generic "medicine" but I feel like you are applying your fears of eugenics to an entirely reasonable situation. In situations of medical shortage, you have to prioritise care to those likely to make it because those antibiotics are gonna be wasted on the person about to die, but even then, it's inhuman not to ease the passing of those you know will not survive. And there's nothing quite as useful for doing that as a nice big dose of morphine or propofol. You might have a point... if "easing suffering" wasn't already used by ableist parents and caregivers as a comfortable euphamism to get Autism Speaks and other ableists to sympathize with them killing their autistic children.
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Mar 24, 2015 18:41
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Steam posted:It's used by most anyone who feels that it's better for a person to be able to die, ideally peacefully, than to keep on living. And yes, it is used sometimes to justify killing (often via euthanasia) those with perceived or actual mental abnormalities. That particular issue is a race I have no horse in, though I can totally understand your feelings about it. But to say something like "We should do what we can to save a larger, more worthy group of people, and let some other be unwilling sacrifices" strikes me as wrong. to say let 10 homeless people die to save 50 people with homes and jobs, etc.
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Mar 24, 2015 20:16
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Look, let's just move on to the next episode because this is getting hard to talk about further. Overman King Gainer Episode 4 First off, I really don't like how Gain goads Gainer to fight in the boxing ring with him, it reeks of Kamina type behavior, even if he mostly beat the crap out of Gainer in a boxing match he pretty much had no chance of winning just to teach Gainer a lesson for being so anti-Exodus or whatever, it's still pretty mean and I don't like it, especially since Gain also decided to drag Sara into it just to get Gainer more into fighting him. But I will say it's maybe better than the lessons Kamina tried to teach Simon or Bright hitting Amuro/Kamille/etc. Especially since Gainer had grown a lot since episode 2 and doesn't exactly jump at the chance at first until Gain prods him enough about it. But then we cut to an amazing scene between Adette and Jin, where Jin hides behind a corner where he own men give him poo poo for not beating King Gainer last episode, and Adette goes in and sticks up for him, that being cruel to someone in wrong, especially behind their back! Jin is so touched by this that he starts crying and is so touched that he grabs Adette and they both go into Rush Rod together and decides to go out there and prove everyone wrong about him! It's pretty sad when members of the fascist villains have more touching moments that the awful "good guys" do. Speaking of which, the B-Plot involves Gain having to go get medicine for some young boy who is dying, but the lovely thing is Sara really has to get on his rear end to go to a far away warehouse to do it, which after the poo poo from the last episode and goading Gainer into that fight, and by the episode's end he does at least amange to save the boy's life, nevermind the boy would've died anyway if it wasn't for Jin using his Overskill to stop the Unit he was being treated in, but I guess when you're a big rear end in a top hat like Gain, you have to take any kind of moral victory, no matter how small or how many asterisks you have to put by it. It still comes off like Sara gave more of a poo poo about that boy's like than Gain. Jin was great as allways, when you think about it, he actually was the one that allowed Gain his incredibly small moral victory, and if anything it makes me respect Jin a lot more than Gain TBH. But in the end he is the villain and he only did it to stop the convoy to challenge King Gainer to a duel, where the stakes are being able to continue the exodus or having to set up a town here where they'll of course have to pay stipends to SR. More Overskill magic and clever ploys ensue, such as leadign King Gainer into a stormcloud and using the Overskill to make it progress into a tornado, but then Gainer responds by manipulating time with his own Overskill. The episode ends with Jin and Rush Rod being captured while Adette gets tossed off, and by the sounds of things, the next episode might be the last we see of Jin, which makes me sad because I don't know if the next SR bad guy is going to be able to top how interesting Jin was as an antagonist. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 21:41
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dogsicle posted:The context/tense of the conversation makes it obvious that things aren't bad enough yet to need mercy killings, it's merely a realistic possibility that Gain has foreseen and is planning for. It's even obvious that he doesn't want that situation to occur, given his frustration at the amount of supplies and how he scolds the doctor. The decision itself is entirely practical though, and even though it understandably triggers you, it's important that you acknowledge that it's about euthanasia for the terminally ill rather than eugenics. Just did, and ehh.... didn't make me feel much better.
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Mar 24, 2015 22:08
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