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Yeah that teaser is basically just "season 2 exists" and "Colin Farrell looks real haggard and punches someone with brass knuckles."
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Apr 10, 2015 06:25
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Drifter posted:These weren't fantasy shows; keep the trolling to a minimum please. Religion isn't the same thing as fantasy. There is a pretty huge undercurrent of occult mysticism and spirituality, which the show treats with an unusual seriousness. One of the characters literally has a mystical vision at the apex of the show which might be shared by the villain, and the show generally treats Cohle's visions with an ambiguity very uncharacteristic for the genre. Calling it urban fantasy is too much, but there's a hyperrealism or magical realism to the way the cult is treated that invites people to see a supernatural presence. It's not a naturalistic show. Locations like the abandoned school, the collapsed church, or the ruined fort borrow heavily from pulpy, supernatural depictions of devil worship. That shot of whatshisname with the gas mask and the machete is bracingly monstrous, and really sells the idea that the guy might be more than human. It really feels to me like a show that believes in the Devil, even if that Devil is human created. Like the show is saying that it doesn't even matter if the cult's religion is true, because the will of human beings has power as great as any magic. Creating a demon from hell out of a gas mask, tighty whiteys, a machete, and lots of drugs. 
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May 12, 2015 05:01
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Drifter posted:Thank god the show hadn't already gone out of the way to explain and previously show Rust's acid-based hallucinations. And his ever increasing stress levels. The show explains that Rust's hallucinations are due to past drug use, but it never actually suggests that those visions don't have insight, in fact it does the opposite on a number of occasions. It's also worth mentioning that Rust is literally portrayed as the smartest and most insightful character on the show, by a wide margin. Rust is basically an ascetic mystic who the show directly compares to Jesus Christ shortly after that scene. The show strongly blurs the line between hallucination and religious vision, and implies that they're basically the same thing, and importantly, doesn't reduce religious visions to mere hallucinations, but also elevates hallucinations. Just as it doesn't reduce the cult to mere psychopathic weirdos, but also elevates their occult behavior to being part of a cosmic struggle between light and darkness. The whole point is that Rust's visions are indistinguishable from religious epiphanies. The show is explicitly about the human condition, and how human spirituality and metaphysics fits into that. It's a show that actively questions what giant metaphysical ideas like the battle between Light and Darkness actually mean, and it takes its religion and occultism very seriously. The show literally ends with a character escaping nihilism by becoming Jesus Christ and finding a spiritual safe-haven as a warrior of light. Rust's visions are important. True Detective: a show about one man finding Jesus Christ. He spends the whole show staring in a mirror, looking for meaning, only in self-sacrifice in the fight against evil does he see Jesus. Praise the Lord. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 03:42 on May 13, 2015 |
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May 13, 2015 03:40
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Jose posted:So which of the monologues were just totally stolen? None of them, he uses a bunch of Ligotti or Ligotti-esque turns of phrase. He's openly admitted this in interviews and pointed people to the authors in question. Cohle is an original character based on the philosophy of other people. A lovecraft fanzine freaked out about his use of homage, and accused him of plagiarism. All of following predates the accusations of plagiarism, and was voluntarily offered up in an interview: Nic Pizzolatto posted:I first heard of Ligotti maybe six years ago, when Laird Barron’s first collection alerted me to this whole world of new weird fiction that I hadn’t known existed. I started looking around for the best contemporary stuff to read, and in any discussion of that kind, the name “Ligotti” comes up first. I couldn’t find any of his books in print, and their used prices were prohibitive for me at the time. But I located a couple at libraries, and his nightmare lyricism was enthralling and visionary.
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May 22, 2015 06:10
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Yeah, he also quotes a Daredevil panel. It's a great show. I'm referring to the Ligotti thing because that was the one that got all the traction. I don't think anyone was silly enough to accuse him of "plagiarizing" Burroughs. http://lovecraftzine.com/2014/08/04/did-the-writer-of-true-detective-plagiarize-thomas-ligotti-and-others/
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May 22, 2015 07:01
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Sleeveless posted:Death of the author and all but Nicky Pizza gets super defensive whenever people criticize Rust which makes rationalizing his theft as totally cool self-aware character building that much weaker. Referencing another work of fiction through quotation or homage is not plagiarism, and it's reasonable for him to be defensive about those accusations.
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May 22, 2015 23:32
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I thought the theme was kind of perfect. The show was waaaaay weirder than I thought it would be. Leonard Cohen cryptically speak-singing over minimalistic rhodes piano seems way more appropriate than a maudlin folk thing.
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Jun 23, 2015 07:33
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It's small in population, but loaded with industry and money, it's basically one huge industrial park that nobody actually lives in. It's based on Vernon, California.
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Jun 23, 2015 18:21
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Unzip and Attack posted:I don't get a lot of the harsh criticism I'm seeing for the first episode. I thought the set up was pretty strong and I really want to see what all the victim was involved in. I mean what the gently caress was up with that raven mask thing? Jesus. True Detective Season 1 was pretty weird too, but McConaughey, Harrelson, and Fukunaga legitimized it for a lot of critics. Now that they're gone, it's open season on the weird noir David Lynch writing, self-serious philosophy, and over-the-top characters. Plus I think a lot of people have minor vendettas over season 1's lovely treatment of female characters, perceptions of plagiarism, and dissatisfaction with the ending, because they felt like they couldn't lay into the show for it at the time. I read an incredibly negative review of the first episode that said this: quote:This scene isn't the most credulity-straining thing last night's episode asked us to endure (that prize goes to Taylor Kitsch's character's insanely fortunate meet-cute with this series' seemingly central murder victim) It strains credulity that the character who is literally only in the show because they're the one that found the body, is the one who found the body. How insanely fortunate, high-five Huffington Post blogger. I've repeatedly read criticism of the show as humorless, despite Ray Velcoro. This is a character who played bad cop on his son to get him to spit out the name of his bully, then went to the bully's house and beat up his dad with brass knuckles. I don't see how you could read characters like Velcoro or David Morse's new age father/cult leader as anything other than intentionally ridiculous. They're ridiculous in the same way that Cohle was ridiculous, an archetype pushed so far in that direction that it risks collapse. I feel like a lot of people never got the message that True Detective takes place in a crazy, pulpy neo-noir universe, even when it was literally quoting comic books and horror novels, and named after a pulp true crime magazine. And had a character named Rust Cohle.
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Jun 23, 2015 22:00
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The important part is that the killer believes the religion is true, because a central idea in the show is the power of belief, religion, and philosophy. Even Rust is touched by his encounter with it, and starts incorporating elements from it in his personal philosophy. Whether the religion is scientifically true is irrelevant. Daredevil is still, in part, a story about Catholicism even though no angels appear and wave a banner saying "By The Way The Pope Is Right". The show is, in part, about a brush with the supernatural, it's just not super literal about it. It's about the supernatural that exists in our brains, the mystic, fundamentally irrational way we experience the world. The show goes to great pains to present the possibility that the cult's religion is true and never entirely rule it out, because that's the reality of living in this world. People see ghosts, people have religious experiences, people are filled with ecstatic religious mania and become capable of doing incredible things. I don't like it when people make fun of people attached to the idea that the show's religion was true, because in my experience, a lot of them take the less defensible position that the show's religion is obviously empty and devoid of meaning, a mere "red herring". At least the Cthulu guys have an explanation for Rust Cohle hallucinating a black portal into space, the "it was just a detective story, nothing more" guys just pretend it never happened and it was just an accident that the director budgeted money for a CGI whirling hellmouth in the climax of the final episode. The Cthulu guys are just taking the events of the story and contextualizing it in a way they feel comfortable with, which is sci-fi/fantasy/horror, and the fact that you can do that successfully says a lot. centaurtainment posted:"Eat their cake and have it too" is the perfect summary for season 1's treatment of the villain. He exists as a nebulous force representing a whole swath of evils for the first 9 episodes and then at the end he is a physical person who can be defeated so the season can have a tidy conclusion. Jesus Christ was both fully man and fully God. You need to read your bible, fella. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 18:04
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Rust Cohle is a fictional character in True Detective, Season 1. He actually didn't write the episode, or direct it, fyi.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:10
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Professor Shark posted:It would have been great if Rust's hair was completely white afterwards (Stephen King Lovecraft style) or he'd gone completely insane/ catatonic (Lovecraft style), the internet would have raged even harder. The thing is, he does undergo a physical and psychological transformation, it's just that Pizzolatto isn't a cosmic horror author, so his change is ultimately positive. He doesn't pierce the veil and find a vast indifferent nothing, but actually finds something. He does undergo a shocking physical transformation: he becomes Jesus Christ.  I contemplate the moment in the garden, the idea of allowing your own crucifixion. 
Periodiko fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 21:54
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sector_corrector posted:It's always weird to me when they say S1 had a happy ending. What happens is that Rust and Marty repeat history by capping a guy who's bad, for sure, but not actually solving the central crime of the show. Then as two old, frail men they give up. All of their actual (true, guffaw) detective work is silenced by a vast, powerful conspiracy that they can never stop. The story happens twice: once when they're young men and they get the wrong guy, and then once when they're old men and they get the only sort of right guy. That's not really a happy ending. Their detective work wasn't silenced by a conspiracy, it just became irrelevant because the conspiracy was basically a bunch of retired old men trying to cover up old crimes. Errol was just a grunt who carried on the traditions, because they gave his horrific, abused life meaning. The relative upbeat ending comes from the fact that Rust is able to lift himself out of his nihilistic depression, and himself find some meaning in the world. He's able to come to grips with the fact that even though his daughter is dead, the fact that she lived and continues to live on in him gives him the strength to survive. Marty, too, is able to reconcile with his family, and be a little more at peace with the world. The point isn't that they save the world, because the victims have been victimized, and the conspiracy has run it's course, the point is that they save themselves, as well as any future victims of Errol.
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Jun 26, 2015 21:35
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SADDLE ME UP posted:It just feels like the Earth is being slowly devoured or it could all fall off the face of existence any second. 
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Jun 27, 2015 04:03
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pigdog posted:The show is beautiful, it's well directed, the plot is interesting, Colin Farrell is fun to watch, Vince Vaughn isn't a great actor but is well cast, and Rachel McAdams is awesome. I'm totally on board. Yeah I've liked it a lot, and Vince Vaughn has done fine, even pretty great in a few scenes. It's also way better directed than I was expecting after all the hubbub about Fukunaga leaving. Everything people were doomsaying about it has turned out well as far as I'm concerned. Settings great, cast's great, new director's great, case is still spooky. Colin Farrell is killing it, I really really hope he's not dead. I love this insane True Detective universe where literally everyone has had some horrifying traumatic life event, investigating ritual murders committed by masked conspiracies. Half the main characters are literally suicidal, and the most ominous, creepy character has been a psychiatrist. It's amazing. Meowbot posted:Now that I am watching episode 2 I am finding that I have to watch it with subtitles because it is really low talking a lot of the time in this show, am I the only person who needs subtitles? It is like my brain can't understand unless I read as well as watch. I didn't watch with subtitles, but there were parts where I wish I had because I missed a line of dialog. I think part of the problem is low talking, but the writing is also really unconventional, people occasionally say stuff in really strange, mannered ways, which can be hard to follow. I feel like you can definitely tell the writer comes from a novel-writing background, there's a lot of hard-boiled, hard-to-deliver, and hard-to-follow lines.
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Jun 30, 2015 03:01
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Roman Reigns posted:My theory while sitting at work bored out of my mind is that Caspere invested in some super duper high class prostitutes from a sex cult dedicated to the wealthy. For funsies: Caspere is a nouveau rich part of a shady sex-obsessed secret society. Part of that involves sex slavery, hence the missing woman in the first episode. One of the victims of this cult who was abused tracked down the only abuser he/she knows about, Caspere, and murder/tortured him. The acid to the eyes is symbolic, Caspere liked to record and watch things, and the genital mutilation also has obvious symbolism. The killer then camped out outside Caspere's apartment, figuring that some member of this illuminati would go looking to see what happened to him. Caspere's murder was bait, which was why his corpse was left out in the open in a public park/rest area. When Velcoro went investigating, the killer figured that he was part of the conspiracy. Armed with a shotgun filled with less lethal rounds (rocksalt? beanbag rounds? I don't know anything about guns), the killer shoots Velcoro hoping to incapacitate him, and then possibly question or torture him to find out more about the conspiracy. The killer, searching his person, discovers his police badge, and decides to let him live.
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Jun 30, 2015 04:55
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solovyov posted:Yep. Lol at him for thinking the people in charge of this show aren't ignorant enough to telegraph a character's homosexuality by having him refuse to exploit his badge for sex and by having him use a drug that doesn't actually work as an aphrodisiac to get a hard on. That poster is obviously the dumbass. You can use viagra to get an erection even if you're not into it. That's literally how many "gay-for-pay" straight sex workers perform.
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Jun 30, 2015 05:32
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solovyov posted:No, they use viagra (and injections) to maintain the erections they get from watching straight porn. Drugs alone are not enough. Drugs are designed to deal with physiological issues, not the complete absence of sexual attraction. That takes mental tricks. Right, so your objection is baseless, as it's perfectly reasonable for a character to use viagra as part of a strategy to perform sexually.
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Jun 30, 2015 06:31
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solovyov posted:Nope. Narrow it down. I don't know what you're saying, but I think it's unfair to call the creator's of the show "ignorant" based on what we've seen so far, and I think it's outright wrong to say that the highway stop was supposed to "telegraph" that he was gay, considering the show kept the outcome ambiguous. I think the highway stop was there to show uneasy, toxic, commodified power-for-sex and to intrigue the viewer. Given that his use of viagra is perfectly reasonable, and given how the highway scene only suggests homosexuality in retrospect, if at all, I don't understand your personal attack on the show runners. But if you feel differently that's okay, it's a very strange, divisive show after all. Cheers.
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Jun 30, 2015 21:02
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solovyov posted:I don't think I'm trying to personally attack the show runners, there's just some unavoidable implications when pointing out "great job, guys, people working from uninformed and silly presumptions were the first people to figure out this character is gay!" Like, it's probably not a coincidence that those people saw turning down the bj/using viagra as signs of Gay, the show runners saw it that way too. I think you're mixing up a bunch of things. The show is adopting a mystery structure where unusual character behavior and events are explained by future reveals. It doesn't follow that every retroactively explained situation ("he couldn't have accepted the BJ because he's uninterested in women") was intended to work both ways, forward and backward. The Sixth Sense famously uses a late reveal to recontextualize old scenes, but that doesn't mean that M. Night Shyamalan assumes that we should assume that every character who has a one-sided conversation in every paranormal movie is actually a ghost. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 08:52
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He did more things.
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Jul 4, 2015 09:00
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He had green ears and a face like bark because he was a fairy that stole children, like the antagonist of Ligotti's The Frolic. Errol Childress = Erlkönig.
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Aug 5, 2015 18:42
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I don't think any show is better off without a writer's room, tbh. But Breaking Bad was written episode-to-episode, with only loose outlines. It's an entirely different way of working from having one person take a year and just write all the scripts ahead of time. A contrary example is Babylon 5, where whole seasons were written by the show creator. While not perfect or anything, it was very strongly and coherently written for sci-fi at the time, and particularly had a great sense of continuity and scope. Probably a less controversial example is Deadwood, which IIRC was all David Milch all the time, and was easily one of the best written TV shows ever made. Or hell, True Detective Season 1, which used the same method and turned out incredibly well. Both methods can work, and clearly both methods can fail. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Aug 13, 2015 |
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Aug 13, 2015 18:41
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