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It's great to see how loved Burps was in here. Well I'm not new so you can execute me if you like but I wouldn't recommend it. I've read the thread best I could but there's a large of garbage in there to sift through. I'll have to go back and do post histories again eventually. Murmur Twin posted:I'm tentatively town on Opop, derp, EXAKT. There are a bunch of other people I'm null on. Why derp? MEDS CURE SCHIZOS posted:Still supporting lynching a third-voter, though. I may have missed something but what do you mean by 'third-voter'? uranus posted:also i'm not lying about my flavor dicktards I actually believe you. ##unvote ##vote uranus
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Jun 8, 2015 09:08
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Hey bottleknight I don't think you switched me in on votefinder. Thanks!
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Jun 8, 2015 09:16
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Murmur Twin posted:My feeling on derp - and this might be a total figment of my imagination - is that he will always post seemingly randomly. That said, I think scum-derp is more likely to I wonder. Because I pretty much agree with you on his meta game. It's high time I read isolated post histories. Trying to grind through all the pages in one go kinda makes me just zone out.
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Jun 8, 2015 14:46
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white noise, whereas the things I've seen from him this game (claiming Gallagher and asking if there are other non-gnomes, saying he has a vig and asking for opinions who to smash, occasionally questioning other peoples' reads) seem motivated towards scum-hunting.
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JakeP posted:The thing with Derp is I don't see his case at all, and it feels like he is being opportunistic with regard to the heat imgay is taking. It feels like he is doing the thing where he piggybacks on a case of a potential lynch target, but then finds his own reasons to support it Yeah this, except as far as I can tell he hasn't found his own reasons. He's just going on about imgay for some reason. Murmur Twin posted:My feeling on derp - and this might be a total figment of my imagination - is that he will always post seemingly randomly. That said, I think scum-derp is more likely to Take a look at his post history it's a lot just words but he's not scum hunting or even heading in any general direction. He talks about his flavor and that imgay should be executed. That's it. I don't see how you think he has questioned other reads or requested for hypothetical vig options. He's just jumping around crying out for imgay's head. Opopanax posted:I think he's lying, there's really nothing more to it I don't think he's lying but I think it makes Uranus more likely to be an aggressive 3rd party since his claim seems a bit obvious to be a scum slip. And if he's a dangerous 3rd party I think we need to get rid of him for our sake. The fact that he's wielding a mallet suggests an aggressive 3p. imgay posted:Why even turbo day 1? Bottle said he'd replace him if its an issue anyways. Now I don't want to come off as hypocritical but it's true my uranus case is largely flavor/meta. I don't care for the flavor argument in imgay's case (though it's actually pretty funny) and this quote is a good enough post for me not want to vote imgay because it reads really natural and comes from a town mindset in my opinion.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:23
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uranus posted:why do i wanna kill imgay so bad
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Jun 8, 2015 15:23
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Also, what the heck was/is going on with Kumba?
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Jun 8, 2015 15:24
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EXAKT Science posted:Also 100yrs derp did ask who people wanted him to vig here: I read that as rhetorical and not actually asking. He doesn't seem like the type to take anyones advice.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:48
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EXAKT Science posted:100yrs you're SK hunting. Also, you did you miss when derp said that he did not, in fact, have a vig? Yeah that's what I'm worried about. I'm pretty much convinced that uranus isn't town. It's true I'm less convinced that he's 100% scum. And while he may not have a vig I don't think he's wholly toothless, as weak a flavor argument that may be.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:56
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EXAKT Science posted:You're still SK hunting~ I wouldn't say I'm hunting specifically for a serial killer just that I've found a player that's not town but perhaps given the evidence is more likely an anti-town 3p. How is that necessarily a bad thing? I otherwise have a meta read on valk, who I remember being way more vocal than she has been, but that's super weak. And I have some ideas about Murmur twin but it seems overly complicated that I wouldn't want to die on that hill.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:08
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EXAKT Science posted:You're looking for a 3p rather than for scum. When pressed for scumreads, you throw out a couple of names but say that you have nothing solid and don't elaborate on the reads, which is hedgy and behavior I would expect from a scum, and wmb was incredibly scummy before he replaced out. I don't think I've been hedgy. I'm trying to be as sincere and clear about my thought process with you as I can be. When I first looked through Uranus stood out as not-town. Like solidly not-town. That's more than I can say for anyone else in game. Then later when I re-read him specifically it seems like his alignment may be more 3p than scum. Still he's not town. I think that's a good solid vote to cast. Best case we get scum worst case we get rid of someone that won't help town. I never set out with the intention of look for SK. The rest of my votes are typical no solid info D1 votes. I feel like I've got something here which is why I'm sticking with it. So vote me if you think I'm going about it wrong, fine whatever, but I am not being hedgy. I'll elaborate if you want me to.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:17
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My case on Murmur Twin:Murmur Twin posted:My case on him isn't so much "I think he's scum" as "sometimes turbo'ing players is good". If he's scum (roughly 20-30%?) that's awesome - we take one out and get to gauge how people reacted to their scumbro being voted. Even if he's not, at least we have night actions and flip information to drive more educated votes down the road. It's ridiculous that she calls out Sam on 100% sure while throwing around her own percentages this early on in the game. And actually uses them to seriously justifying turbo-ing a literally defenseless player (happens to me often enough due to time zones). It's a jerk thing to do and while most of the votes on Jake were jokes here she tries to play it as a real deal thing. Murmur Twin posted:Every gnomish name I know of starts with a "G". Blatant lie. BottleKnight posted:the King of the Gnomes, Joqueitch She quoted it earlier herself. Her whole flavor case on imgay is absurd and not enough to consider an actual vote on her. I'd need more from murmurtwin outside of the flavor case to make imgay a viable execution. Murmur Twin posted:At this point I feel pretty strongly about imgay, enough that I'm willing to take a stand on it. I have threereasons for it - (a) I feel confident enough in my read that I think he'll flip scum, and (b) there would be better reads for D2 based on imgay's flip* based on people's D1 actions (c) I don't feel as motivated to search around elsewhere until this is resolved. She's willing to make imgay a sacrifice by undermining her own confidence in her vote. And then just decides not to engage anymore afterwards. Murmur Twin posted:I feel like I would have been appropriately been called out as full of poo poo if I didn't This is a sign for me that she's being overly careful about her posts something I find only scum do since town are more comfortable with being free-wheeling with their thoughts. Her final "how to ascribe value" to posts bit is a try-hard and again smacks of a scum player trying to wipe their hands of lurker lynching. Still this is a lot of gut stuff based on interpretation and hence less reliable. I think Uranus has outright outed himself and is the surer vote.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:31
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JakeP posted:Without a scum flip already how do you even make this alignment read? Like I can understand if you are like well X flipped scum, and there is no way this guy is scum with that guy so he must be 3P or something, but how do you get a 3P read on someone day 1. Makes no sense to me It's more because I don't think scum would make such explicit a statement. Maybe it's a botched breadcrumb, but as far as I'm concerned Uranus is not-town. Could more likely be 3p because what scum would outright say such things. Either way definitely an unknown factor that should eliminated.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:34
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uranus posted:also pretend i quoted all the other posts where you call me 3p But why would I omit saying it if I've got nothing to hide and that's actually how my thought process went down? You're acting like I've slipped something but I'm genuinely trying to be as open as possible about this.
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Jun 8, 2015 17:02
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Murmur Twin posted:If someone wants to claim "gnome whose name doesn't start with G" to shut me up they're more than welcome to. The Gnome King, Joqueitch, whose name you had already posted, but this is all besides the point. This is a dumb case on you. It's why I'm not voting you. I wrote it in response to this: EXAKT Science posted:You're looking for a 3p rather than for scum. When pressed for scumreads, you throw out a couple of names but say that you have nothing solid and don't elaborate on the reads, which is hedgy and behavior I would expect from a scum, and wmb was incredibly scummy before he replaced out. to which I had said I would elaborate. I think it's pretty clear why I would vote uranus over you if this is all I have on you.
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Jun 8, 2015 17:19
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EXAKT Science posted:When you get back, do you still think 100yrs would be a bad vote? Completely separate from wmb's posting, 100yrs has been aggressively 3p hunting, and I'm curious what you think of that. Come on you know it's not like. It seems there's a good enough case against me without you having to unnecessarily exaggerate it. I have not been aggressively 3p hunting. If I came to that conclusion that Uranus could be 3p fine, but that doesn't mean he can't be scum. Get the story straight at least. Opopanax posted:Actually now that 100 has subbed in he is not a bad vote, I just didn't want to vote the newbie Yeah no, just vote someone who's just incompetent. 
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Jun 8, 2015 19:06
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JakeP posted:Unless you are confirmed town masons with him I don't see what possible role related reason there could be. I bread crumbed it in my first post seeing as it's out in the open.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:22
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EXAKT Science posted:Where? 100YrsofAttitude posted:It's great to see how loved Burps was in here. Somberbrero posted:not the breadcrumbing, but the claiming at all. It's touchy cause we're confirmed lovers. I was going to refrain from claiming until it was a certain thing that I was the option for tonight but there you go, now it's out in the open for better or for worse. uranus posted:whats your mason flavor I'm as handsome as a gnome can be and I'm with I can assume is a Milf. All we wanna do is bathe together.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:43
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While I normally don't mind being killed it would've sucked since it'd of brought/will bring down someone else which isn't all that fair that my bad play gets them caught up. However, I do hope you've all learned a lesson that yes indeed town can come to the conclusion that a player (uranus) who's clearly not town may have the possibility of being 3p. Like that shouldn't be out the realm of imagination as previously thought.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:46
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JakeP posted:lol i cant imagine there is more There isn't. That's it.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:47
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Well I'm not known for having conventional opinions but my point is that it's not 100% scum tell. Stranger things have happened.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:48
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I never got the case on him outside of him being 'certain' about having scum present on the Jake vote. Otherwise it all seemed really weak to the point I honestly can't remember what it was.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:55
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EXAKT Science posted:Aaaaand still nothing. ##vote GG You seriously need to stop thinking that someone not responding to you makes them scum. uranus posted:its happening again. i'm actually trying to play mafia and am getting upset when a swarm of idiots try to kill me for no reason. I sympathize, even if I'm one of those idiots, because this is constantly happening to me.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:46
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Mithross posted:
This is pretty much the 1 thing that bothers me the most with this game that it is that someone will always find fault with what you do. What's the matter with the claiming? It was a bit pre-mature but why not full-claim? You know drat well someone would've pushed and pushed till it had all come out and then what? Same thing. Don't act like we did something sanctimonious, it's so annoying. Samfucius posted:100's setup spec was awful (because setup spec is awful), Uranus actually voted for imgay for reasons beyond the dumb flavor bullshit, and saying "everything you've said" without quoting a single thing is suspect as hell and is pretty transparently trying to have us fill in the blanks for you. I can't believe this. You guys really get a narrative stuck in your head and assume that that was it. It wasn't setup speculation since it was prompted and asked by other people. Un-loving-believable. If I had literally stayed mum on my vote on Uranus none of you would think any different.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:46
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Frustration aside. Of the "effort" players the case on Murmur is perhaps the most existant. I don't see the case on Ghastly if only because she's reminding me of myself. I'm still content with my vote on Uranus.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:50
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JakeP posted:What? I'm annoyed that people are saying my vote on Uranus and my thoughts was motivated by set-up speculation. Speculation I hadn't even made until after the vote was well put down and was prompted by exakt asking me about it. I don't want that to be part of the narrative because it never was but I can't seem to get that point across.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:54
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Well does that make Uranus more likely to be scum than whatever you think Ghastly is guilty of?
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Jun 8, 2015 22:57
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uranus posted:hey everyone before you decide to switch to some other scumbo try to explain this post to me. how would a town person make this post. what is the thought process I see it as a sort hands-up in the air moment where Ghastly is saying, really guys? You really all think I'm scum and yet amongst yourselves you can't even agree about the finer details. He then states, in what I find a joking manner, that this must mean that there are 2 clear parties involved in voting him. uranus posted:... you really dont see what im talking about? if hypothetically you and i are both town and gg is scum, his scum mind would percieve us disagreeing on something as a disconnect, and he might call it out as 'weird' without thinking about it. I'm sorry but I don't get this. We really seem to have different ways of thinking.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:18
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I need to go bed but I wouldn't vote MCS he's often an antagonistic jerk but he's got a solid point about exakt, at least it's not a case that makes him scum. I'm actually still pretty pleased with my vote but I'll stick around for like 10 minutes in case of any discussion.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:22
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BottleKnight posted:Ghastly Gangsta, Gyzzyx, 3P Serial Killer, has been lynched D1 Who was hunting serial killers now?  In all seriousness, I have no idea what to make of that night kill. I won't get a chance to re-evaluate things until tomorrow night though. I'm going to back away from Uranus since his play at the end of D1 was a lot better and I shouldn't rest a case on a flimsy D1 premise. Of the active players the two I want a closer look at is exakt, because I seriously think Meds has a point about exakt's casing in this game, and murmur but mainly because she has so much going on that I need to take the chance to put it back in order.
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Jun 9, 2015 21:45
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I agree with Madness. This game invites over complication of theories or ideas, we call it WIFOM. Very often the simplest answer is really the right one. Expounding more on this issue gives you free but empty content though. I can't help but feel that you're backing away from your comments in a convoluted way.
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Jun 10, 2015 23:04
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uranus posted:especially all that stuff about not giving any other thoughts about any other players 'until he's ready' which presumeably will be when exact is dead, lol uranus posted:very dont like this post. opop popping out of the shadows to dismiss any cases on meds when no one was even calling him scum for that reason uranus posted:so before it was 'exact is voting everyone and calling everyone scum, he a bad guy!' Really sorry about yesterday. You're on fire. While I do feel that Exakt is voting people who disagree with her; it's incredibly true that Meds is hardly making any other effort otherwise.
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Jun 10, 2015 23:05
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I think I'd rather side-step the Exakt and Meds issue. Uranus and Jake pretty much explained my stance on those issues respectively:uranus posted:xact reads like someone having fun, putting in effort and genuinely trying to play. when someone has nearly 200 posts of course people are going to find some thing here or there to latch on to. you have to look at the big picture. JakeP posted:It also feels like a really safe way as scum to not have to share too many opinions that might contradict each other, but the fact that he is so blantantly honest about it almost makes it seem like he legit believes it is a good strategy? It doesn't hurt Meds that I think she's brought up several good points against Exakt. On the other hand she's not casing anyone else. Exakt on the other is incredibly active, seemed genuinely frustrating, and while she has a habit of just voting people that either ignore her questions or that vote her I don't think it makes her scum for sure. What I find more likely is that scum are attaching to themselves to these cases and not trying to make waves.
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Jun 10, 2015 23:21
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Let's look at the Exakt votes. Opop's vote on Exakt is the weakest by far:Opopanax posted:I do I do ##vote exakt This sentence doesn't mean anything really. Not the way at least how Sam notes that Exakt changes her reasons to push Sam's death, not the way Somber votes Exakt for contradicting her play into the way she read imgay's death, and not the way Meds has played up Exakt's voting pattern. All those reasons amount to an understandable conclusion. Opop had a stupendously lackluster D1. He rode a vote on Uranus for most of the day and posted enough to remain present. Perhaps one of the more interesting bits is his argument with Exakt starting at this post: Opopanax posted:Well no, I don't feel anything one way or the other. I'm not going to make up a read to satisfy you I appreciate the sentiment (especially when said to Exakt, who then goes and votes Opop), and while it works on D1 where information is scarce, I can read it as a pretty good excuse for a scum who can't find an easy case to work with. That said in the argument between the two I do feel that Opop comes out the better of the two. Nothing much is really said until today's vote, the weakest of the votes on Exakt.
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Jun 10, 2015 23:30
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The votes on Meds seem to come more from a town mindframe. Exakt's vote is an OMGUS with some other backing and Madness can't do any wrong :heart:Murmur Twin posted:This is a weird accusation to make. Changing your vote in response to other people's statements is a town thing to do, because town doesn't know who scum is and should be reacting to new information as it comes. If EXAKT had a read on someone and refused to update it, that would be scummy. And that's what MCS is doing. For a huge majority of the game, his only case has been EXAKT (and me for the 3rd voter thing but whatever), and it seems like way more of a smear campaign designed to mislead than a genuine attempt to find scum. I'd be careful with this because this is one of those 'damned if you do/don't' actions in mafia. You're accusing Meds of tunneling, but you would've just as easily accused her if she was fast and loose with her vote. Either way she can't win. What's more interesting is the people who've come to Meds defense/are agreeing with Meds. The most vocal has been Somber (again due to Exakt's pushing): Somberbrero posted:I resent the implication that you think I have anything to do with noted human trashcan MCS. I still think you're scum though, sorry buddy. Somberbrero posted:it's hard for me to take any case on mcs seriously when he's just here to be a big ole' troll. Somberbrero posted:i don't know whether mcs is town or scum, he plays pretty much the same non-game each time i've been in a game with him. i don't want to dunk him because i don't have any confidence that he's scum, whereas i feel pretty good about exakt for the reasons i've outlined repeatedly. just because i'm not casing the person you don't want me to case doesn't mean i'm scum. Somber jumps from 'Meds is a jerk,' to 'Meds is just a big kidder'. Her last comment in regards to Meds is probably the most sincere of the her posts and the most sincere in regards to the next two comments. It's a solid meta read and Somber gives a reasonable explanation for not going after Meds. Opopanax posted:I just don't feel that Meds being an rear end in a top hat is indicative of alignment. It's kind of his thing This is more problematic since it ignores the crux of the argument against Meds. Opop will then latch onto Somber's comment. Kumbamontu posted:I don't understand the case on MCS, as I find myself agreeing with him on most everything. WWM's vote on MCS is really bad but ~masons~. I'll treat 100/WWM as tentatively town because of the claim but it's pretty iffy and that breadcrumb is weak so I'm keeping an open mind This is a pretty terrible post all around and the logic as to why Kumba can't understand the case on meds is flimsy. His defense of: Kumbamontu posted:there's a difference between saying "right, therefore town" and "seems to be thinking almost identically to me, a townperson" and MCS falls in the latter category. it may be biased but whatever Doesn't excuse him for not seeing the case players have made on Meds. It's very close minded.
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Jun 10, 2015 23:59
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All said and done I'd be most comfortable ##vote Opopanax I think Kumba is shady as gently caress, but he hasn't said all that much and that can still change. Opop's laid down some pretty poor votes, is  participating, and is piggy backing more than what seems usual for him.
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Jun 11, 2015 00:00
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I'll be around for probably an hour so just bumming about so if you've questions or comments I can definitely answer. Tomorrow's gonna be another day where I'm going to be MIA for the most part (though I get to see an old friend so it's not so bad).
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Jun 11, 2015 00:01
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JakeP posted:Its a pretty good point too, though why opop over somber? I've liked Somber's play a lot better, it feels more genuine and he seems to come to his conclusions and feelings about things in a more natural way. Note that both Somber and Opop point out Meds abrasive behavior but only Opop mentions that it's this behavior that drives the views on Meds, which isn't the actual situation, but the easiest one to say since it's well known that Meds is a jerk. Somber explains his reasoning behind his thinking that Meds isn't worth casing, Opop doesn't. I think if Somber seems bad due to his stance on Meds it's mainly from Exakt's badgering and in the context of thread. If you read them in their own bubble they seem like normal comments. Opop's don't ever really look right.
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Jun 11, 2015 00:22
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Kumbamontu posted:I see the case I just don't agree with it, I thought that part was obvious. Yeah the guy is tunneling on a dude pretty hard, but so what? This is WIFOMy for sure, but I can't think of any motivation for incessantly tunneling on someone that hard as scum knowing full well someone is going to call me out on it. Generally a scum player, especially someone with as much experience as MCS, is going to be more cognizant of what they are doing and adjust their behavior accordingly. Tunneling is something that people throw around here a lot as a scum tell but I don't know that it actually has any bearing on someone's alignment. From the way you wrote it it wasn't obvious. Your following statement of how the two of you think alike doesn't bring that up either. Either way the tunneling isn't really the worst of it, it's the refusal to case anyone else.
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Jun 11, 2015 00:28
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EXAKT Science posted:Help me trust you. Give me a read on Opop. I don't need anything more than that. Just, town or scum, and how strong, relatively speaking. Please. Work with me. Whether or not Meds fails to do as you ask, would you afterwards tell us why it's necessarily important?
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Jun 11, 2015 09:43
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uranus posted:i kind of want to kill ross or opop today. Let's go after Opop. I'm actually pretty pleased with my case on the guy. Ross is a bit harder to properly case and is a solid lurker execution. I think we can rally around Opop though.
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Jun 11, 2015 17:48
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