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Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


cumshitter posted:

Please tell us why you know the dude who headed the security detail is a horse fucker. And also how you know he is a nazi. I'm sitting here like Al Bundy with my hand three knuckles deep into my pants waiting for you to tell me all the details.

Sorry for the delay in reply- was a busy weekend. The nazi aspect is only widely spread rumour to be fair (though on the face of it it rings true), however as for the bestiality.. He outed himself in 2014 by using a letter 'zeta' on his fb and Twitter profiles. This is a 'secret sign' that zoophiles use to identify each other. This was bought to the wider world's attention by a blog used to call out bad behaviour in the fandom, and once it was made public a lot of people came out of the woodwork to say they knew about his proclivities. Of course, the reaction from the majority of the fandom? Zip. Aside from those who started claiming it was a man's right to stick his dick into livestock. More details on the link below:

http://furry-fandom-jerks.tumblr.com/post/100827040884/i-would-have-never-have-noticed-the-significance



I still find hard-right furries to be a complete and utter mystery. It just makes no sense to me whatsoever. :/

Camrath fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jul 14, 2015

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Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Oh for Christ's sake, not again..

I'm not going to engage with the paedo stuff, as I've typed more than enough about it over the past month. However, Webdog, your comments about he community protecting wrongdoers does have merit- for example, the bestiality poo poo at the upper levels of the fandom that is an open secret at best.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Baracula posted:

how many british furries are horrible public school types? Does being abandoned at a public school make you furry or is it a class illness that has its genesis in the home??

Very few as a percentage, but about in line with the expected number in the general population. Also kids aren't really 'abandoned' as such at schools these days- that stereotype is a generation or two out of date.

Also apologies for being slow to respond to this thread in general- started a new job this week which has left me way too shattered to bother much with SA.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


SamLikesCake posted:

A guy in Florida who goes by Media built it. He does some really great work and is a really professional guy. He's on the higher end as far as price, but the work is solid and I think it shows.

There are dozens of fursuit makers out there, some great and some not-so-great. Review communities exist on FA and Tumblr. If you want to throw down the money for something like a fursuit, do some research first. I've seen a lot of people get hosed over. Like anything else, you get what you pay for. A $300 suit is probably going to look like poo poo and fall apart after two or three outings.

And that's assuming you don't get ripped off. My girlfriend lost about £700 back in 2011 when Avsun did the whole 'take on a shitload of commissions and then disappear' poo poo. Lot of people lost cash there.

Oh, and Vic will probably be delighted by this, but eh. A Wisconsin furry and ex-fiancé of my best buddy got busted with child porn on his laptop, tried to pin the blame on his best friend and now is trying to crowdfund his defence. Dude is a loving freak, and truly creepy around women, so much so that when I heard he had been banged up I thought it would be for some form of sexual assault rather than this.

https://www.crowdrise.com/justiceforjason/fundraiser/reneejudkins

Funny story- when he came over to visit my friend they originally weren't going to let him into the country as the border guards thought he was a 'vulnerable individual'.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Vic posted:

I am delighted that this apparently autistic furry got arrested on child porn charges. Delighted!


This comic doesn't seem like a parody either. Check some of those speech bubbles.



It's probably not a parody. 'Cosplay =/= Consent' is a thing, apparently. And there's nothing the furry fandom does better than ripping off other people's memes and putting fuzzy animals in them. It is also a genuine problem- while some fursuit specifically to /get/ attention of that ilk, a lot of furries are retarded enough to assume that all do. I know my gf has been felt up/over-embraced or whatever countless times when in her suits.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Justin Godscock posted:

"Cosplay =/= Consent" is really a thing. I did security once for a comic convention and getting reports of creepers touching Wonder Woman cosplayers or taking photos of people (right in front of their face, no less) were fairly common. It really is though one of those "get 10,000 people in a room and chances are one of them is a pervert" but I imagine there are far too many people who defend such a stupid thing.

It's really one of those cases where nerds just don't seem to understand you wouldn't hug/touch someone on the street and just because someone is dressed up like Catwoman doesn't change that.

I think I wasn't clear about what I meant- obviously, wearing a costume of any sort shouldn't open you up to harassment! I'm a security professional who worked a lot of cons in my time, and people really don't seem to get the hint about that. I was more commenting on the direct copying of the wording of the slogan.

TunaSpleen posted:

What's the deal with badges? I see they come up a lot with fursuit sales. Is it just a picture of the character, and doesn't that seem redundant having a picture on you of what you already are supposed to be?

Generally badges are worn to help identify by name both in and out of suit, as well as another way to show off art of your character. Sort of like peacocking, I guess.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


My Man Shran posted:

What is the dynamic between doms and subs in the furry community? Does it take the form of a master/pet relationship between a person and a furman? From what I've gathered from this thread, BDSM seems fairly common in the furry community.

Is there some kind of universally recognized symbol, like wearing a dog collar over your big goofy hyena-lynx-dragon-wizard suit, to indicate that you are interested in that kind of thing?

Additionally, have you ever witnessed an individual try to rally the furry community for a political cause? I've seen this kind of thing in other insulated subcultures, where the alpha-nerd of the bunch decides that he is charismatic and attempts to get his brethren involved in some political issue he's way too engaged in, like standing outside of planned parenthood with a giant hand-painted sign of an anime lady holding a baby.

Not being involved in BDSM myself, all I can say is that the trappings are often visibly worn (collars, cuffs, harnesses etc) as part of furry costume or as general apparel by fandom members. Beyond that, I really couldn't comment.

With regards politicising the fandom, at least in the UK that's avoided as much as is possible (indeed, when I ran the Birmingham meets we ended up banning a guy for, amongst other reasons, publicly associating the group with the Occupy movement). Indeed, I think one of the reasons the London Comittee enjoyed such cordial relations with both the Metropolitan and City Of London police forces is that we made the effort to reach out and communicate with them, stressing at all times our apolitical status.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Tartarus Sauce posted:

Friends of mine have worked and helped to organize cons. To the best of my knowledge, core staff of fur cons are usually furries, and those that aren't are "fur-friendly" geeks who just enjoy helping with geek cons.

My understanding is that the cons and gatherings that run smoothly hire based on competence, diligence, and skill, and the ones that blow up or melt down are the ones where people hired their good buddy Dave, who pressured the staff to hire his good buddy Steve...

I do know that many people volunteer their own time and money to put these things on. I don't know if, how, and when people get paid. None of my friends have ever talked about being paid.

Cons and other events are almost entirely staffed by volunteers. I only have intimate experience of running the Londonfurs group, which consisted at the time of five committee members selected by the other members of the team on a 'one in, one out' sort of basis. Never received a penny for my time; anything earned from events or donations was reinvested to pay for insurance or future events. And I put in a fair amount of my own cash over the years (for hi-viz gear and radios mostly). I don't believe even con directors draw a salary per se- things very much run on the basis of people's good nature and willingness to give up time and money.

jiffypop45 posted:

I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this since this topic has largely devolved to kink and nerd shaming but, furries are not inherently a fetish. That is a subset of the fandom. Some people (and I've met plenty) enjoy the (non yiffy) art, or suiting, or some other aspect of it. Without any sexuality tied to it.

While I know the OP is very bitter and angry about the fandom (hence the topic title) it's unfair to the socially well adjusted furries who are just interested in the fandom like any other. This mindset is a dangerous slippery slope to get in.

Well put.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


surc posted:

No that poo poo needs to change because it's loving horrible, and if people have issues being perceived as a likely zoophile or pedophile, they should stop associating with a group containing known zoophiles and pedophiles.

E: Or start some huge campaign to distance yourselves, and loving report those people. poo poo isn't going to stop getting thrown as long as you can just point to some dude at a con and go "that guy is clearly creepy." without having to move, or when people KNOW that there are pedophiles/zoophiles and aren't reporting them to the loving police.

You assume that people don't do just that (ie report people to the authorities). I know I have, as have quite a few others. Hell, we had someone get arrested at a Londonfurs party after we reported him on suspicion of rape (the allegations were false, as it turned out). The problem is both internal and external- internally a lot of the deviants /are/ in respected/powerful positions within the fandom and people refuse to believe that these 'popufurs' could do wrong, and externally a combination of a lack of hard evidence, the insular nature of the community and frankly a lack of interest by police makes it almost impossible to bring charges, let alone make them stick.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Sizone posted:

The time is overdue for this thread to be moved to GBS.

I disagree. There's actually been some pretty smart and reasonable discussion here so far. I really don't want it to end up in a firestorm of morons shitposting.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Stupid_Punk posted:

Haha as it if can't get any more interesting, there's one not too far from me that went out and slaughtered animals so now the ones in Pittsburgh here are just all fighting each other over it.

What's with the animal abuse that goes on? Apparently quite a few go out and do it for sport.

Also, seems like they're also attacking the rc fox guy for going out and partaking in charity things. I thought the furries were into charity?

Define 'animal abuse'. Obviously, I've mentioned at length the sexual abuse of animals by a minority of the fandom and the conspiracy of silence/GSF reasons why it's either condoned or just not generally commented on, but I've not heard anything about someone 'slaughtering animals' at any point. Some furs hunt (I did/do), but perhaps some more context is needed?

And have to admit, never heard of 'RC Fox' or any controversy relating. Might be a more local thing.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Strategic Tea posted:

To be honest, furry art, from the cartoons to the suits, is aesthetically awful. I know that's just an opinion, though I'm sure there's some arbitrary High Art reason too, but I just see how ugly it all looks and wonder how someone could want to devote their life to recreating it. People have already posted some well drawn pictures. But even if someone took years perfecting Optimus Prime in watercolour or whatever, it's still going to be vapid garbage because it says nothing, however good the technical skill. We don't need to figure out a moral high horse (though god knows there are plenty) - it's perfectly ok to loudly complain about not liking a style of 'art'.

Also, any description of people as holding

despite no meaningful power or serious money actually passing through their hands is a pretty reliable red flag for broken, cultish poo poo.

I'm not going to argue ground of taste or preference- that's just a black hole with no resolution. But I will say that there are some genuinely talented furry artists, as well as a great many incredibly bad ones. And the talented ones most often have a non-furry portfolio as well that just doesn't make the rounds so much.

For your second point though- for a start, serious money DOES pass through the hands of some people, particularly con organisers. While they may not be taking a slice for themselves (as far as I know), if you simply do the maths the actual amount of cash involved in a four day convention for several thousand people in a convention hotel.. the figures get staggering.

Interestingly, I've been hearing from some of my sources on the inside about a lot of issues that have been raised at various european cons. I'm not going to comment further without verification and further info, but it seems that there's a change afoot at least to some degree.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

In a century some grad student's going to write their dissertation on the use of sparkledogs as democratic heraldry and it will be the most beautiful thing you'll never get to read

My girlfriend did actually make a sparkledog heraldic symbol, but only for a LARP and as a secret joke between us. When I get home I'll see if I can find it.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Plus ca change.. One of my friends who's still on the inside passed on this little nugget of information about the Londonfurs. Bit of background- during my time on the organising committee we went to a lot of effort to negotiate use of a secondary venue for a changing and fursuit storage area, both to reduce congestion in the main bar area and also to keep the loving vile stench of shitloads of sweaty fursuits and fursuiters from turning the place into a gas chamber after the fursuit parade. The bar's management company is one that we'd enjoyed a really good relationship with for the best part of a decade.

Well, long story short- retard furries and their wandering hands have ruined it for themselves. I wish I could say I was surprised or shocked at this development, but no. Just business as normal in that mob of drooling priaprismic autists.


quote:

Announcement: The closure of Jamies Too (fursuit lounge)



ƒUBy Miyabi On September 17, 2015 ƒå0 Comment




Hey folks,

In recent weeks and months, questions have come up as to why the Fursuit Lounge (Jamies TOO) has been closed and when it would reopen.

Up until now the official stance from Jamies has been that it¡¦s closed for renovation. This has unfortunately caused consternation among many of you and has taken away necessary space within the main bar, Jamies. Rumours soon made rounds about other possible reasons for the closure. Rumours help nobody ¡V especially not our team of volunteer organisers or our reputation ¡V which is why we have decided to post a clarification in this matter.

Regrettably, it has come to our attention that several months ago, Jamies¡¦ staff caught attendees of the meet engaging in activity in the fursuit lounge (Jamies TOO) that was clearly and expressly forbidden under the following rule:

6. Attendees of the meets are expected to behave in a manner conducive to that of a public place. Please do not partake in anything that could be reasonably construed as an affront to public decency or in contravention to the Public Order Act. If you want more information as to what this entails exactly then please contact a member of the meet staff. Common sense here is paramount.

Unfortunately Jamies staff didn¡¦t come forward to us immediately so we could not identify the attendees who broke this vital and basic rule.

If you know who this was we would appreciate it if you would come forward and inform us ¡V please contact any member of staff at the meets or email us in complete confidence at events@londonfurs.org.uk (or use our contact form).

To the perpetrators in particular: Consider yourselves persona-non-grata for life and banned from any and all future LondonFurs activity.

Should you decide to still show your faces after we get reliable information on who you are, you will be escorted off the premises in whichever state you¡¦re in and told in no uncertain terms never to return.

Coming forward yourselves and admitting this and taking responsibility for your actions might be interpreted in your favour.

To be absolutely clear on this ¡V this single incident has irrevocably damaged our relationship with the management behind Jamies¡¦, who operate the the majority of available bars in this area of London including the locations for our Summer and Winter parties.

We are relieved that they haven¡¦t outright banned us from their premises permanently ¡V and we wouldn¡¦t have blamed them if they did ¡V as this is absolutely unacceptable behaviour.

Just so there isn¡¦t panic in the future about what is and isn¡¦t allowed ¡V the furmeets first and foremost are about meeting friends. Embracing friends physically is perfectly fine, as is holding hands or kissing ¡V anything that is acceptable in a public place. Interaction with fursuiters is obviously included in this.

That being said, our staff ¡V both LondonFurs and Jamies ¡V will be on the lookout for unfitting behaviour. Please make sure that your hands stay out of other people¡¦s ¡§bad touch¡¨ zones and above the clothing. No exceptions.

We can only hope that time will heal our relationship with the Jamies¡¦ management.

Finally, apologies from us ¡V the LondonFurs Management ¡V about the inconvenience this has caused for the fursuiters and other attendees who have obviously done nothing wrong and who are the ones primarily affected by this.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Archimago posted:

I think this stuff tends to be ignored because most people would rather pretend it doesn't exist than acknowledge the fact that there's people out there doing that poo poo.

Seriously, that's some next-level hosed up poo poo.

Yeah. Holy poo poo, that's just beyond my comprehension. Also, why the gently caress are you even considering looking into this poo poo? Sadly it's not like there's much any of us can do about it, so why expose yourself to the horror?

I mean, gently caress. I've known about the dog/horse/whatever-loving in the furry fandom for ages, as I've expounded on at length here. But I'd never even suspected that anything like that even existed, and now I do I wish I didn't.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Horrible Smutbeast posted:

Also, Sorry Camrath for turning this into a bitter ex furry artist ranting spot about the worst in the community. If you want to get back on topic with specifics about the scene just say so and I'll be happy to stop posting about this.

It's all good man (well not /good/, but you know what I mean). Having never been able to draw even stick figures well I have absolutely no insight about the artistic experience of the fandom, so it's both horrifying and fascinating to have a different perspective. To be honest this thread has been going for like three months, hasn't dropped beneath a 4 rating and has barely been off the first page, so people are obviously interested in the discussion.

Also, props to the A/T community in general for running with this thread and not drowning it in a torrent of shitposts- I wasn't expecting it to last more than a couple of days tbh!

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


quote:


For fursuits, most companies offer installments, yeah. Usually 50-100$ chunks minimum over a few months to a year; the idea is that by the time the character is off the waiting list and being made, it'll have been paid off. Because of the long wait times, there have been a lot of cases of furries getting swindled out of thousands when their maker vanishes off the face of the earth/has 'health problems' and refuses to refund. A couple thousand is enough to hurt (especially to people who are usually unemployed) but not enough to get a lawyer involved, so getting a fursuit from anyone but a reputable maker is a gamble! Almost all makers insist on a payment that covers materials before they even start, so usually it's the customer who's at greatest risk when buying something huge like a suit.

Yeah, suitmakers going scammer is very much a thing. My girlfriend lost about £700 a few years ago to Avsun when they did a runner, and I had a maker go mental on me back in 2012. Luckily didn't lose money other than interest I would have accrued, but yeah..

In other furry news, since this thread was last active several US conventions have lost their venues due to the bad behaviour of their attendees, in the UK a dude by the name of Angel McCleod has managed to get himself chain-banned from first nearly every furry event going and then multiple LARP systems for out and out sexual harassment (at one point he wanted to commission my gf for faun legs as LARP kit and from that brief conversation made her feel deeply uncomfortable and creeped out) and various documentaries are apparently being made with the nornal feuding between people who refuse to have anything to do with the media and those who are convinced they'll be the ones to make furry look good and cool and normal.

I await the results with baited breath, popcorn and a funnel to collect the furry tears.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

I wonder whatever happened to the "yiff the otter" guy.

I've not heard anything about Nekobe for years, though I believe he was in jail at least at one point in the noughties.

The depressing thing is, there are so many other hosed up individuals out there that he would probably fade into the background these days; the fandom in the nineties was a very different place.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Midjack posted:

I would like to know about the furry security agency MI:3 that you mentioned earlier.

This is something that grew out of a subsection of the fandom that works security as volunteers at conventions. I was involved with it somewhat myself back when it was first starting (I work in the security industry and have a great deal of experience in management, leadership and organisation of security work, one of the reasons I ended up organising the Londonfurs). On the one hand, it's an organisation that promotes training and organisation for convention security- given the unique needs and issues within the fandom this is not in itself a bad thing.

However it very rapidly became a way for a (mostly German) clique to end up controlling security at pretty much every major European convention, and included a very large level of what they would no doubt call 'intelligence sharing' but most people would consider 'ostracism' or 'bullying'. It also had a very negative effect on the way security at cons operates.

A bit of background; for the longest time security at most British furry events was organised by a few volunteers- I'll use furry nicknames as it's all a matter of public record. Codewolf, Crimson and myself were probably the biggest names on that side of things up until about 2012 or so, and in general things were good. Security operated by consent and good nature, people were treated like adults and while there were incidents that needed a sterner response, in general things were very much kept non-authoritarian. Which I always felt was in keeping with what 'values' for better or worse that the fandom represented to those inside it.

This started to change as UK events became larger and attracted more international guests (it may have always been the other way on the continent- my first mainland event was Eurofurence 2011, so quite late in my furry experience). Dhary Montecore, the German animal-rapist of whom I have spoken previously, was one of (if not the) main proponent of a shift to a far more authoritarian and less customer service focussed role, which Codewolf as the unofficial leader of the British security detachment seemed to embrace. Now, I worked with Code a lot at various events, and as furries go he's actually a really sound guy and extremely professional and experienced- he's someone who i did and still so respect and think highly of, thoughI do wonder how he feels now about how things have turned out. Suddenly security became full of nerds on power-trips, puffed up with their own self-importance and the power a pair of black combats and a 'security' volunteer badge seemed to give them. As I said, I've worked in the security industry for many years (admittedly with a focus on corporate and religious based jobs rather than events/hospitality); Code worked (and afaik still does) as a professional doorman in some lovely places. Out of all the rest, I doubt 10% had any practical experience outside of furry volunteering, and the levels of professionalism were simply non-existent. That's not to say that they don't take the job seriously, but it's almost hilarious in retrospect how badly it's all handled.

An example- I've alluded to this before in the thread I believe in fact. At Eurofurence 17 I was working security with Code and a few other English volunteers beneath this Dhary fellow and with a large number of unqualified German nerds-in-combats. On the last night of the con there was a genuine security incident during the 'dead dog party' (that is, the shutdown party at the end of the con- not sure if that's just a furry term or common to other subcultures). The lady who I'd shortly after end up dating was being actively stalked by a German dude; this had been reported and flagged up multiple times. Anyway, he became even more insistent, following her all around the hotel and basically trying to get her alone. She was desperately trying to find a security guy to help out... Except every single volunteer was in a mandatory 3 hour meeting which mostly consisted of fat nerds arguing that this con /needed/ metal detectors and armed guards, etc etc. The disconnect between how they saw themselves and their role and reality was quite simply both staggering and hilarious.

Effectively MI:3 was said kraut horsefucker leveraging this bloc of the fandom for some measure of personal power and celebrity within the fandom. And a lot of furries lapped this up. There's a happy ending though- as of this summer he and his organisation have reportedly been removed as head of security from the largest British convention due a vote of no confidence, together with the entirety of the British volunteer team at EF apparently quitting in anger at how grossly he mismanaged this summer's convention.

If it sounds like I'm bitter here.. Well first look at the thread title. ;p But in seriousness there are very few people from my time I furry who I hate on a personal level- a lot of people I pity or find hilarious, for sure, but nobody who I would happily watch die in agony like this dude. He managed to make the entire UK con scene take a very negative swing in direction, is one of the major reasons I first started to become disillusioned with something that for better or worse that I loved, and he has a retarded haircut. Oh, and rapes animals too.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Deified Data posted:

When a furry gets a new suit, what happens to the old one?

Do they sell them? Keep them in the closet?

Depends on the furry; most people will rotate their suit collection throughout a con or what have you. You do see suits getting sold on second-hand but frankly there's a huge level of caveat emptor involved with that. My gf has four suits taking up space in her workshop at the moment; she'll probably sell at least a couple but one becomes very attached to a character (and that character so identified with you) that getting rid isn't so easy, even after leaving the fandom.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Deified Data posted:

What's the percentage of furries that stick with one "character" for life versus those that have multiple personas?

Couldn't give you hard figures, but one thing you'll often see is a furry with a primary fursona- that is the name/alter ego that they go by within the fandom- but multiple different suits of various characters.

And I have no idea about the various options on Bad Dragon items, for which I am eternally grateful.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Latest furry hilarity.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/TonyTigerGate?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Long story short, furries start sending lewd poo poo to the official Tony the Tiger (from Kellog's Frosties) twitter account. Which then blocks a whole swathe of furries, including many who never tweeted anything. Massive drama results.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


paradoxGentleman posted:

To be fair, a lot of them seem to be castigating the rest for being so drat socially inept

e: a lot more seem convinced that this is some sort of betrayal on the cereal mascot's part.
And then there's this one guy who seems convinced that because of Zootopia furries are now mainstream and Tony should get on with the times or be left behind.

Luckily someone embraced those refugees with open arms


I don't know what to think of all this.

Dammit. I liked Cheetos.

Seriously though. This world is just getting too loving weird for me now. You have corporate mascots bantering with carpet-wearing pederasts on the internet.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Haskell9 posted:

So I'm guessing that's a no then, Camrath. Time to PM Doodles.

Sorry, deeper and missed your question. But no, have no idea who those people are.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Imapanda posted:

Theres going to be a furry sitcom of a dramatic household of over-the-top fursuiters in 10 years, I just know it.

Such things have existed in the real world since the 90s, the thing is- most furries once you strip away the perversities and hilarities of the fandom are actually pretty boring people.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Twerkteam Pizza posted:

So I gotta ask, and I admit I haven't read the full thread, but have you noticed any weird political trends among the furry community?

Like you mentioned Nazis and how some prominent furs are into bestiality, but like, are Nazis common? More common? Racists? Sexists? ECT?

Holy thread necromancy, batman!

Okay, so the nazi thing is not unknown, though I'd not like to say how much of that is more fetishisation (in both the sexual and non-sexual sense) of the imagery, or people looking to shock and be EDGY AS gently caress. Obviously it's something that's not looked upon well by a lot of members of the fandom. Racism is something that I never really encountered in the fandom, at least in the UK- there are some who I would call 'britain first' types judging from facebook postings etc but it's really not something I've ever heard discussed or talked about at meets or cons. And though the fandom is majority white, there are plenty of black/asian/oriental furries out there.

As for sexism? Well, not so much sexism but there's a fair undercurrent of misogyny that I was aware of- both in terms of attitudes to women and how they're treated. Part of this is I think a result of a toxic mix of young, ignorant gay males and the sort of smelly sperglords that would never be able to get a date if their life depended on it; my other half (now my fiancee- got engaged in April) has many stories to tell of not just being sexually harrassed but also dismissed or treated like crap by furries. At the time she either laughed it off or didn't actually realise how out of order poo poo was, but with reflection and hindsight.. yeah.




Plan Z posted:

Really late to the chat, but I was a cook at a large hotel & conference center and the year we booked both a furry gathering and an anime convention and it owned because of the flood of the complaints. Not from the hotel staff or anything, but from the guests. The gatherings usually rolled into Sunday, which is the biggest day for the hotel, mostly for the brunches. It's where we'd put our best foot out and serve our best food and do up the restaurant really beautifully. The clientele were mostly people who just got out of church and were still in dress clothes drinking their free mimosas and choking down poached eggs. I hated it because it required me to put in long hours both Saturday and Sunday (typically up to about 25 hours altogether with no breaks).

One year when an old woman who didn't know what furries were was on hostess duty because she thought they were sports mascots and thought it would be cute to let them in. That day was worth the laughs when I'd see the new intern at the carving station having to figure out what a guy in a massive red fox costume was asking for using only hand motions or a big purple bear trying desperately to accurately spoon foyot onto his poached salmon while some 70 year-old man waiting behind him gave him the dirtiest look. I went to check out the restaurant to spot a head count, and a few of them asked if I made any of the food and complimented me and asked for a picture and if I said I didn't want to ask one of them for their suit's mask and wear it with my chef coat and hat for that picture I'd be lying through my teeth. I decided it was better for me to decline.

Eventually the hotel had to say "dress code" after enough people complained about being forced to share a buffet line with several Narutos during the yearly anime convention.

Cam or anyone who knows: if you're still reading this thread, do you know a rough price range of how much a fur will typically have to pay out to have a single page of commissioned art (of decent quality) done for them? There was a Goon artist on the Mumble who said she occasionally did pieces and claimed that they paid a lot for them but I forgot to ask how much.

Yeah, you made the right choice in not trying on the head.. they're generally very sweaty and nasty on the inside. The first time I tried a head on it had a very distinct smell that I couldn't place for ages but was somehow familiar.. I then realised eventually it smelled the same as the loaner masks at my old school fencing club, which had been sweated into for years by generations of adolescent boys.

Regarding art? I commissioned a few pieces in my time (as I mentioned way earlier in the thread, I used to be fairly close to half of Blotch, so I have a few painted Kenket originals). I think £40 is the most I ever paid for a piece of art; normally I'd not spend more than about £20 or so on it. But I was good friends with the artist who sold (I believe) the most expensive piece of furry art ever; a work that went for four figures at a charity auction. Now THAT was crazy.


Holothurian posted:

So did they take off the heads to eat, or push the food in a hole somewhere?

I've never seen anyone eating in suit, unless you count taking on salty snacks in the fursuit lounge to replace lost salts. You do NOT want to get crumbs or stains on your suit (or at least, food stains..), and the suits themselves are so hot I can't imagine actually eating in one without discomfort and difficulty.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Data Graham posted:

Hey OP, I remember you from way back in the day. I'm pretty sure you know me too, though I don't think we talked much directly. I wasn't gonna post because I thought the thread was dead, but welp. :v:

This thread has been quite the rollercoaster of funny and uncomfortable memories. (And some from the OP are still going concerns somehow.)

Also I'm, shall we say, extremely familiar with the four figure art purchase(s) you mentioned :magical:

PM'ed you.

Since the last time this thread was active I've drifted even further away from it all emotionally- to be honest as the months and years go by the whole furry experience seems more and more like a bad dream, or a point-of-view show where the main character is someone I no longer identify with. I guess I'm not as angry as I was about my experiences and the wasted years (though I still hold burning hatred for certain members of the group). I was having a long chat about it all with my fiancee a few days ago, and instead of gritting our teeth at everything we experienced we just had to laugh.

And gently caress it, despite the way I've addressed things throughout this thread, there were some good memories that still make me smile. Nights at cons dancing for eight hours straight, the satisfaction I got from navigating over a hundred carpet-wearers through the streets of London, road trips to Germany.. It's really just a shame that so many formative experiences of my young adulthood are tied up with all the negative, disgusting, embarrassing bullshit of the Furry fandom.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Serperoth posted:

If it's not too weird to ask, would you care to share some of the good memories and good stuff about the community? Was it just personal pride ("drat i'm good at carpet-wrangling") or just Good Times?

Not weird to ask, and I think I've mentioned a few of the particular highlights already- the road trip to Eurofurence 2011 was a real highlight- banter, high speed, mostly good company for the fandom (though there was one creepy gently caress who chugged cans of cold lentil soup at every stop between nibbling on a bulk-size block of cheddar); on our return trip we started playing drinking games at our night-stop. Chugged an entire bottle of absinthe, shocked most of the people there in games of 'never have I ever' and hooked up for the first time with the girl who I'm marrying next year.

RBW 2010 was another good con- it was held in London, I had an executive suite and the theme was 'space Cowboys' so it was basically a constant running nerf-battle interspersed with heavy drinking and dancing. First time I met the fiancée, bodypainted with her (which lead to her ex being convinced we were loving.. Fat chance, she thought I was gay at the time..) and I'd bought ten grams of (then legal) methylone and handed out pills like loving candy- had half the boat party off their faces including most of the con staff. Stupid and irresponsible, but eh.

As for meets rather than cons? If I'm being honest with myself I think most of the pleasure I got in the latter years came from making things happen and the pride there in rather than actual enjoyment of the events. Back in 2000-2001 though the Londonfurs started going en masse (such as we were back then anyway) to a bar/show/club called Saucy Jack and the Space Vixens post-meet. Sort of like the Rocky Horror show with disco and fetish wear and scifi rather than horror and rock. Turned into a disco club after the show, and we'd all go along in makeup (this was prior to Fursuits being a Thing over here). Those were seriously happy times for young me- getting shitfaced and dancing with interesting freaks and feeling awfully grown up for it.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


So, story that is still developing, but apparently there was a recent triple homicide in Fullerton, CA- all the victims and the three arrested perps were all involved in the furry fandom.

Courtesy of Vivisector:

quote:

Fullerton CA. Cops were called by one of 2 young kids in a house (they're safe). Found dead - 2 adult males and one female (mother, stepfather, and a friend of the family). Neighbors reported gunshots.

3 were arrested a day later. Males age 25 and 21 and a 17 yo female. All were charged with murder. All were furries.

Before the cops announced arrests, Twitter had a call out to find the missing teenager. She had some relationship with the 25yo. She is daughter of the deceased mom, who was a furry too. Mom and daughter went to meets together.

Attention goes to the 25yo. He had numerous online accounts with some recent ranting about relationship trouble, a recent photo of a gun magazine, and a mention of psychiatric drugs. There was even a supposed screenshot being heavily shared of a Facebook chat where he admitted planning murder to someone else. The 21yo seems to have military affiliation and the 17yo was rumored to be unstable.

I'm going to do some digging and see what I can't find about this.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Valex posted:

The idea of parents taking their children to fur meetups/cons kind of weirds me out

We had that happen a few times at London meets (normally with 16 year olds or the /really/ autistic
ones). It always weirded me out a bit.

Oh, and when I ran the Birmingham scene there was one girl who kept turning up with her five year old (the kid had her own suit) until we finally got her to understand that a pub full of hosed up weirdos was no place to bring a kid.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron



This one is the best.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Vic posted:

Camrath since you're still around:

Imagine you have a kid and in the dystopian future we're in Furries are a common sight everywhere. Now the kid thinks this is like really cool and is convinced they're in fact a neon werewolf mixed with a platypus.

How do you approach that situation?

How the hell do you think? 'Yeah, I used to be involved with this. You're not allowed to hang out with these people and you're not an animal.'

Nurel posted:

purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrge

This is also quality

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


BobHoward posted:

Reminder that Vic is that weirdo who kept trying to clumsily trap you into supporting his obsession with the idea that furries are often pedophiles using the suit to get close to children. I mention it only because I didn't know about this thread till recently and read through it only a couple months ago, so Vic's creepiness might be fresher in my mind than yours.

You're right, I'd let the past creepiness slip from my mind.

Vic posted:

Yup that's me. But note that I'm trying to trap a grown man not a child.

And now I'm forcibly reminded. Jesus, get a new hobby dude. When the former furry isn't the designated weirdo in the conversation, you're doing something wrong.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Kobold eBooks posted:

What you should do is go full-blast on being supportive of your child's hobby until you embarrass them into quitting it imo

That's the route my parents took. Didn't work out so well. (Or at least they were fully supportive of it for a very long time; I don't think the second part of that plan was their intention though.)

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Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Big Willy Style posted:

So does that make your folks proto furries?

I'll answer that in earnest.. Perhaps? My mother always was a huge fan of mice, and had a boyfriend in uni (back in the late 60s) who asked her to wear mouse makeup a few times (which tbh I could have done without knowing), and my dad identified with lions (though not in a 'fursona' sort of way). So I think the base traits might have been there on some levels. But I think it's more that they're both pretty tolerant people and open to new ideas and alternative things- they likewise didn't bat an eyelid when my little brother became what I can only describe as a private-school wigga for some years during his teens. I'm sure they had their doubts and concerns privately, but they always went out of their way to be supportive of our interests when we were growing up.

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