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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Modding A Game: Dos and Don'ts and What Am I Even Doing

So you want to mod a game of mafia! The most important thing to know is the basics: how the mechanics of different roles work and how they affect each other in tandem. For instance, a Cop is a standard town role, as well as a Doctor. But if the Cop claims, the Doctor can protect the Cop while the Cop investigates and clears players, meaning the Mafia can only stop the Cop once they find and stop the Doctor! This makes the game a lot harder for the Mafia than the moderator might have otherwise intended. However, giving the Mafia a Roleblocker or Godfather are helpful ways to organize the game so that, in case the Cop and Doc team up, the Mafia aren't left totally high and dry.

Ultimately you want a game that's balanced: a game where everyone has an equal chance of winning the game through roles alone, meaning players win or lose based solely on luck and skill. General pointers and balancing strategies:
  • The Mafia are always at an inherent advantage over the town because they alone already know everyone's alignment and have a team of players upon whom to rely. One Goon should be considered the equivalent of 2 or 3 Vanilla Townies for balancing purposes.

  • It can be tempting to fill your game with plenty of roles and powers, but doing so makes the game a lot more chaotic, making it that much harder to keep a game balanced.

  • Beware roles working in tandem; the above Cop-Doc combo is one example, but a Watcher-Doc combo can be even more devastating for the Mafia without the proper counters.

  • It is common practice to give the Mafia a role to dodge each town power role: a Roleblocker against a Doctor, a Godfather against a Cop, etc. Be careful with this however, since if you essentially nullify all the town's power roles, the Mafia - with their inherent advantage over the town - will steamroll the game.

  • Ask yourself: "what if everything goes absolutely right for the town. How quickly would the game be over? What if for the scum?" If your answer is "the game could end before Day 3," your setup is probably not balanced. Dumb down some of the power roles or take a mafioso or two away.

  • Also try to avoid a game that "plays itself." It's hard to describe what that is precisely, but it's easy to describe what it's not. Player agency should be tantamount: the game should be decided based on what the players do, the alliances they form, the posts they make and the cases they produce. If a game lacks agency - if players are just following roles to their inevitable conclusions - it's a less fun game.

  • Finally, don't be afraid to experiment! Especially if you're a newer mod, people will be very forgiving if you make an imbalanced game, even more so if they had a lot of fun playing it. Without experimentation games get dull and repetitive. But the best game is one that has new elements combined with solid, predictable balance, and a healthy number of vanilla townies round out the setup.
If you are someone interested in running a setup by an experienced set of eyes, feel free to message any of the following mafia players, who have in the past been more than willing to offer advice and guidance:

- Retro Futurist
- CapitalistPig
- Asiina
- MMM Whatchya Say
- eccotheraven


Good luck!!

=============

here's a permanent discord link
https://discord.gg/yPuEJgX

EccoRaven fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2017 around 20:20

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I am the best

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Met posted:

Ecco, since you have the first and last post in the last thread, mind tossing some links on either end of the thread to this one?

I edited my last post with the link.

Also I am gonna edit my (personally hilarious but objectively inappropriate) third-post sniper with something substantive.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Dexanth posted:

I am going to say hi and then disappear for another year that sounds fun

Counterpoint: sign up for my game I just opened a few days ago it needs one player.


Also mafia thread! If you are someone who wants to field questions from newer players about modding games, post here or send me a PM saying as such and I will add you to my newly-updated third-post-sniper post about modding!

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I invite people to join me for an "America" themed evening in the DJ room, and to update your spots on the Mafia Map! I know I'm not where I was a year ago, and have updated it appropriately.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Little Mac posted:

Now that Ecco is not op can we be open with how much we hate her?

y'all already were before, unless that was you guys restraining yourselves.

BottleKnight posted:

I'm eating ribs and pork loin and wishing I had pineapple pizza.

I'm really craving a meaty greasy-rear end burger like right now but I will resist.

All of my friends in this city are out of town for the holiday, so I was all ready to be alone as fireworks went off, but one of my best friends told me her family is spontaneously going on vacation here today


She was supposed to come in this morning. I've called her twice and left her three texts and she hasn't responded yet and fireworks begin in a few hours.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Kumbamontu posted:

The Last Airbender
I can attest that it is actually as bad if not worse than everyone says it is. I would say The Village is better.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


- Gone Home
- Stanley Parable
- Sunless Sea

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


update to those who know: she totally flaked and I watched the fireworks alone.

HOWEVER we're getting brunch tomorrow so it should be okay (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha).

ALSO I had a really good spot to see all the fireworks. Some of them were rainbows

AND ALSO I found an illegal firework show a few blocks from my house. I was so close pieces of burnt paper fell on my face and clothes and scooter.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Somberbrero posted:

i missed someone other than me talking about netrunner.

997 pages to go, I'm sure you'll find another opportunity.

Somberbrero posted:

what is this tag? i'm very angry and also resistant to change.

samesies but what can you do

Somberbrero posted:

how did john oliver end up voicing a character on gravity falls? what series of events led to that transpiring?

woah spoilers I only just got to the freaky friday episode.


also guys help help help I redownloaded ckII and I don't think I'll escape.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Somberbrero posted:

it was in headhunters. which, you know, not a great episode really.

Oh he was Sherlock Holmes, cool.

I like Gravity Falls but more so than the other "shows for children that adults watch" it seems definitely on the "for children" side of things. I'm sure that's mostly a Disney thing though.

I like the ciphers at the end of each episode, too, they're easy but also fun.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Puntification posted:

hello new thread, how's it going?

I'm supposed to get brunch with a friend in a few hours but I can't sleep and Damien Rice is singing my emotions so I'm thinking I'll just get 30 minutes and then nap during the afternoon.

How are you Punt-if-icat-ion?

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now




Update I had brunch at the Best Brunch in the City and it was really good. I had smoked salmon eggs benedict and ate both of them. I got to see one of my best friends for the first time in over a year and we were both so happy we hug-jump-laughed. I had three cups of coffee to make up for two hours of sleep and now I am jittery and giddy. I also chatted on the phone with another biffle for an hour and a half, really made my morning. I wish my friends were closer but I love that they're in my life despite distance, and that we all still make time for each other.

Art is anything made with creative purpose, yes. Things become art when the creator is sincerely intending it to be art - this doesn't mean everything is art, but art isn't just paintings. There is good and bad art, though a lot of it is subjective. Stanley Parable is art and it's good art. My mafia games are art and most of them are okay for the medium; some are outstanding, others are forgettable drivel, but so it goes.

God is an artist and the world is Her canvas. To quote one of my favorite books: "[t]his world contains just one masterpiece, and that is itself."

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


uranus posted:

unless god is some neckbeard looking over the simulation we're living in. that would make sense

you read too many science fictions!!

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Counterpoint: modern art is actually good. Like all art forms there are better and worse examples slash artists.

Nobody says painting is bad because of Kinkade.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


My roommate is published!!

I'm going to cite her at every opportunity.


"Yes I'd like a large pizza, Brooklyn Bridge, hold the olives. (Roommate & Advisor, 2015)."

EccoRaven fucked around with this message at Jul 5, 2015 around 22:04

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


if anyone here is a true american but isn't watching the our soccer team destroying Japan in the women's world cup final, I question how true your americanism is.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


uranus posted:

i'm at work. is there a stream that isnt some stupid amount of money

google.com probably has one.

WHICH WAY MADNESS posted:

All nationalism is stupid and divisive. World sports is just televised nationalism.

ok don't cut yourself on that edge there

Amoeba102 posted:

Holy poo poo, a hattrick in 16 minutes.
"first half onslaught" is what Fox Sports just called it.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

i need a mafia game

JJ's game needed a replacement a few days ago.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


All of these posts are bad and I am an expert on bad posts.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


BottleKnight posted:

I'm watching Steven Universe on Hulu. It owns.

Yeah. Be sure to watch it in the proper order:

http://theworldofstevenuniverse.blo...-1-english.html

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


uranus posted:

what is the best show on earth. i would like anew show but i only watch the best show ever made

my so-called life is really good.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


BottleKnight posted:

RIP Together Breakfast.

my roommate and I eat a together breakfast once a month.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Broccoli and carrot nuggets + hummus is delicious news at eleven.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Max posted:

Christ, people though I was as serious as grondemar?

it's a really stupid chart don't worry about it. it would have been forgotten already were it not for someone(?) bringing it up every so often for some reason (???? mysteries)

Pinterest Mom posted:

Oh man it's almost as if having a new thread is less intimidating for people to post in.

and in a month we'll be at page 100 something anyway.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Byers2142 posted:

It's not still about 75% scum wins? When did town start picking it up?

Of the past 20 minigames and 10 big games listed on the wiki, 14 of them are town wins. Recently there have been more town wins than in the past but the general trend holds up.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


the problem with the wiki isn't really editing privileges (though that's certainly a problem whose solution is to cause twelvebaud to reappear into existence), the problem is lazy people who don't want to put in any effort once their game finishes. This has always been the case and will continue always being the case unless something fundamentally changes.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

would be a good start

not really.

in previous Discussion Threads before I lost all the fucks I would have to post every month or so reminding people to add their games to the list. the problem is and has always been.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


CapitalistPig posted:

We need a wiki thats private like the one that exists that still had some sort of ability for sa mafia members to sign up in order to edit it, thats the main problem is that for some reason the one we have is unable to take signups for whatever reason.

The current wiki had a massive spambot problem (something like a dozen new spam accounts a day who would edit the most popular pages with their spam), so Twelvebaud decided to close registration so he could install new Captcha software or whatever, but unfortunately Twelvebaud disappeared off the face of the earth about the same time. As far as I know there is no way to get in touch with him to transfer ownership over to someone else.

JakeP posted:

I think if people had the ability to add their games they would

unfortunately you're wrong!

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

We could just make a new wiki and copy all the content over

this is a solution.

GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:

Guys, the old wiki is all ecco has left now that Asiina is the OP. Give her just this one thing.
the wiki is Important but I don't own it, The Community does abstractly and Twelvebaud does literally.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

Most game results do get posted to this thread though

I don't think this is accurate either. However your 15% estimate is actually close to truth, I just went through the last two pages of the New Game Announcement Thread and cross-referenced it with the wiki it's pretty abysmal.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


CapitalistPig posted:

because people who have access to the wiki dont read through every single post and obsessively make sure they have every game?

former mafia player Tagov actually used to do just that, and I did too for a while (again back when I cared). it's tedious though.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

the issue is not enough people have access to the wiki

you can say this as many times as you like and while it's a problem the effect it has on "Games Added to Wiki Percentage" is minimal at best and negligible at worst.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

You saying that is as speculative as me saying that if more people had rights it would be better.

except it's not!! I already said we've had wikis in the past that were easily editable and people still never added their games to it. the problem isn't the wiki being editable, it's people's effort/attention, and short of a massive community shift to rewarding good actors and punishing bad ones, it's just not going to happen.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

I have a feeling that it wouldn't be very difficult to allow votefinder to post completed games to the wiki
unsurprisingly you are not the first person to think this and unsurprisingly the answer is "it's actually way complicated."

Additionally it's worth reminding that it doesn't actually post anything to the wiki, what you see is just the result of elaborate (and very temporary) scripting.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


merk posted:

It would be incredibly easy if votefinder kept the master record of completed games instead of the wiki.

Technically it already does, but it doesn't actually sort properly for some reason. It also obviously lacks the game's result (or whether the game actually happened at all for the occasional dud that never gets off the ground).

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


JakeP posted:

In the end game screen it could be an option to enter who won

there already is again the problem is lack of effort.

merk posted:

These are easily fixable issues I'd think.

if it is nobody has taken the effort to do so.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Kumbamontu posted:

I have no idea what it's coded in but that should be something pretty easy to add I'd think and I'd take a stab at it

e: it's in python and jquery

also program an option to require unvotes before revotes.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


BottleKnight posted:

I am now much more okay with getting really into Steven Universe now that I know it was just renewed for a 3rd season. I hate getting into a show right before it's cancelled. Not worth the risk!

if it's any help it's Cartoon Network's like second most popular show.

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Met posted:

Look at me, I'm so edgy I hate the thing everyone enjoys.

- mafiathread.txt

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