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Gilkey's maybe overrated himself, but yeah that return is pretty awful.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:43
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ArtVandelay posted:The point is, we all make mistakes, but you don't veto mine. If this were in reverse and I traded Harris for someone terrible, you'd laugh and call me stupid, but you wouldn't veto it. Art, the difference is that you have been playing for close to a decade now, and we have given you input on innumerable occasions, and you have still made the silly trades. That's why we don't veto, because if you make a negative value trade after as much time and teaching as you've had then that falls on you. It's also on you (and all of us) to see a bad trade sent your way to pump the brakes and reach out to the new owner and explain why it's not ideal for them, not just say "well nobody vetoes my trades so this shouldn't be vetoed either." And yeah, I don't see the incentive for the Gilkey trade there. I'd like to know what the reasoning was from those who approved it.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:43
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Good start to this season, guys
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Sep 8, 2015 21:51
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I was one of the owners scrotos checked with on the Gilkey trade. I don't have a huge problem with it (or art's trade for the matter) b/c I don't really have a high opinion of Harris or Gilkey. I think art and scrotos got the better end of each deal by a reasonable amount, but the "big"name involved in both trades is really kind of meh. Harris is a 1b or LF if he's feeling salty with one year on his contract with a good-but-not-elite bat. Gilkey is a righty batter with a reverse split who scrapes by as a shortstop this year but is a (very possible on a first year training/medical team) range decline away from being a tweener bench player making 7M for three more seasons. They're useful players but they're making money and they're not elite. They're not guys who, in this pool of owners and this particular world environment, get traded for anything particularly great. I mean, gently caress, I remember the market out there for MVP Steve Sweeney a couple seasons ago. If these are vetoable deals (and maybe they are, I'm just not sure I see it that way) I suspect Harris and Gilkey aren't going anywhere unless it's a trade between two (0) owners.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:58
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My problem with each deal isn't that the "name" player is good. My problem is that the return in both cases is waiver wire trash that shouldn't be played on any respectable ML team. And if any unrespectable ML team needs that trash they can just pick it up off the waiver wire.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:08
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Caught Cubs Posting
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I'm going to take a ride on the wayback machine and go back to season 17, when I was young and dumb at this game instead of old and dumb like now. I traded a bad OVR reliever for two guys who could play MIF because my team was desperately thin at that position. Not wanting to look bad in front of the league by putting up a 100 loss team for the second season in a row I made the trade without hesitation. I gave up an actual, if not great, asset for two guys that you can pick up multiple times a season on the waiver wire. This is the kind of shortsighted trade we should be protecting new owners from, especially with the new owner problems we've had recently.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:18
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I agree with you but like Saintoman pointed out it is hard to be unbias about your own deal. It is why I asked other owners. I think my deal is fair, especially if he ages at all on the D scale but if my deal gets vetoed so be it.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:20
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FWIW if it was an owner with 2 or 3 seasons under his belt I wouldn't veto it.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:24
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gyroball posted:34 year old Alex Ransom putting on a Burrellballers cap. storylines In a storyline that stems from me somehow loving up a spring training invite, Adam Knowles, 40-year old career minor leaguer (and one of the last philbar-drafted guys kicking around) will be Salem's 25th man in our Last Exotic Marigold Hotel season
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Sep 8, 2015 22:47
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FWIW I was late on my reply to him and he'd already accepted the trade, but scrotos ran that deal by me and I told him I thought it sucked and was bad -- I didn't have a chance to fully assess the players at the time he asked, but when the 0-season owner is giving up one piece for 3 of whatever type of 'prospects' the Charlotte franchise has left, I don't need to know much to know it's probably not a great deal. I also vetoed the Art deal because of 0-season owner reasons also EB please don't ever bitch about losing out on anyone ever again, you've been playing this game longer than most of us here (certainly me), there's zero excuse at this point for you to be in amazement when you lose out on an FA to jeff or something. This happens fairly regularly and it's reminding me of Art. If you really wanted Barrios you would've had an offer in that was at least close to jeff's, or else he wouldn't have signed. nasboat fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 23:20
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Harris and Gilkey are both non-elite but they're both valuable assets. Harris has a better offensive career (by OPS and RC27) than guys like Tony Martinez, Todd Holland, Brian Brown, Hector Colome, Ralph Norman and a bunch of other guys who have all been paid more or been traded for more value, while spending a not-insignificant amount of his career in strong pitcher's parks. Some of those other guys have better defensive profiles and may be better fits for particular teams or parks but he's at least comparable to those guys on a value basis. And 3B has gotten pretty weak in this world on the whole so a guy who can post a .750 OPS and play top-notch 3B defense (to the point where he can be a non-disaster at SS if so desired) is pretty valuable. TMB traded a much better package for Jonathan Fabregas just last season, who is a similar-value player with a worse contract. His track record is basically as strong as Gorkys Santos, who has been the centerpiece of several biggish trades. Not everyone looks at 3Bs as I do but man I like Gilkey way more than waiver wire fodder and quad-A stars. I'd also have a much softer opinion on the trades if both owners were making them with a clear thought process in mind under guidance of experienced owners (did we even make any efforts to buddy any of the new owners up with anyone to help guide them?). Like, if Gilkey is being traded because there is a pointed intention towards going strong into the IFA market over the next few seasons it makes a ton more sense. gyroball posted:I mean, gently caress, I remember the market out there for MVP Steve Sweeney a couple seasons ago. I know you had your reasons but I'm still surprised you ended up taking the deal you did there.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:32
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I will also say that my terrible 1M in adv scouting sees Luis Ramirez as growing into more than waiver wire bait/a step above anything in the Fabregas trade so I could be calibrated ALL wrong. I also have a general fondness for what Randy Jensen brings to the table, so maybe for these reasons I'm not the best arbiter of anything.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:56
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AlleyViper posted:And 3B has gotten pretty weak in this world on the whole so a guy who can post a .750 OPS and play top-notch 3B defense (to the point where he can be a non-disaster at SS if so desired) is pretty valuable. TMB traded a much better package for Jonathan Fabregas just last season, who is a similar-value player with a worse contract. His track record is basically as strong as Gorkys Santos, who has been the centerpiece of several biggish trades. Not everyone looks at 3Bs as I do but man I like Gilkey way more than waiver wire fodder and quad-A stars. I think this is where I mention that Nate Floyd, Kurt Romero, Tom Crow, and Brant Peters are available.
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Sep 9, 2015 00:22
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Jumpin' Jack Flash / It's a Fabregas
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Sep 9, 2015 00:25
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Power of Pecota posted:I think this is where I mention that Nate Floyd, Kurt Romero, Tom Crow, and Brant Peters are available. Give me The Experience or give me death
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Sep 9, 2015 00:52
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In our TCs he did say he wanted to clear the salary but never explained why. I just assumed for IFAs.
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Sep 9, 2015 00:54
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So now that i'm back from work, I can try and explain myself. He offered me Harris for Yasiel and someone else last night, I TC'ed him saying I wasn't trading Yasiel, and this was the counter offer I awoke to. Obviously it's not a great trade, i'd never say anything to the contrary - but you have to let people make their own mistakes to learn the game. I've said that when other newbies make this mistake, and i'm saying it now. The only thing different this time is that it personally affects me in a good way for once.
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Sep 9, 2015 00:55
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ArtVandelay posted:you have to let people make their own mistakes to learn the game. I've said that when other newbies make this mistake, and i'm saying it now. The only thing different this time is that it personally affects me in a good way for once. There's a difference between "oops I gave Edwin Harris a 5m extension haha that sucks" mistakes and flipping assets around for nothing mistakes. Especially when we have such a strong userbase that we can help inform new players on all kinds of things.
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Sep 9, 2015 01:00
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I'm sorry to whoever I spent a million dollars to outbid a low a coach from
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Sep 9, 2015 15:50
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I'm liking this lineup. Next year i'm gonna have to focus on actual pitching.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:18
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Yasiel Gonzalez: Six-Hole Hitter
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Sep 9, 2015 16:32
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AlleyViper posted:Yasiel Gonzalez: Six-Hole Hitter Where else do you bat a guy with a pathetic 69 power?
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Sep 9, 2015 16:38
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This was the weirdest coach-hiring phase ever for me, I led on everyone who I offered a contract to initially and they all signed in a 12-hour period.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:43
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I hope the remaining ML coaches sign quickly, I need a AAA HC and don't feel like getting in on the spending extravaganza down there.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:55
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I only needed to hire 3 coaches, and they were all high A coaches. Easiest coach hiring season in history. I think I now have no room for Doc Brignac. I'll probably promote him and have him play for Weinhardt/Sanders/Yasiel when they get tired, but he really should be an everyday player.
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Sep 9, 2015 17:05
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gardenald posted:I hope the remaining ML coaches sign quickly, I need a AAA HC and don't feel like getting in on the spending extravaganza down there. Jen hasn't logged in in four days and has literally no coaches hired so I wouldn't hold my breath
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Sep 9, 2015 17:10
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Yeah I gave up on late AAA signings a few seasons ago
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Sep 9, 2015 17:12
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I didn't wanna wait out Footsie Everett at the rookie level so I just went with a worse Bernie Reyes for veteran factor. Someone who has a vacancy should pick up the Evmeister
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Sep 9, 2015 17:14
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AlleyViper posted:Jen hasn't logged in in four days and has literally no coaches hired so I wouldn't hold my breath Fuk
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Sep 9, 2015 18:43
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And everyone has signed ML Hitting Coaches and I could've gotten away with it except I panicked yesterday and signed a mediocre coach double fuk
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Sep 10, 2015 11:46
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Nice upgrade to a 100% better, younger pitcher there, scrotos
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Sep 10, 2015 12:35
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AlleyViper posted:Nice upgrade to a 100% better, younger pitcher there, scrotos Thanks, it worked out because of all the arb3 stuff. So here is hoping they extend and that they did not gently caress with the arb stuff.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:12
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I want to say to whoever didn't want to bid on Barrios but had decided Rosario is the hill to die on: get bent. You're going to pay all of it. I'm driving his price to the ceiling.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:09
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Wow, that makes Ishikawa look like an amazing bargain.
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Sep 10, 2015 20:27
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I thought I was outbid on Morales but I'll take it... though god drat did I squeak in under the wire with salary to clear the Priest trade tonight as well. edit: jesus christ, I am now the Burrellballers feat. the Season 24 Montgomery Burns Pitching Staff (Morales, Devon Jones, Shouta Chang, Wellington Borges) gyroball fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 21:17
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I pestered Jen multiple times today to make sure she protects people for R5 so hopefully we won't have any owners leave guys unprotected this year
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Sep 10, 2015 22:30
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Vin Santana? Tony Martinez? That's right, we're getting the (failed) band back together.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:56
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AlleyViper posted:Nice upgrade to a 100% better, younger pitcher there, scrotos when taken in context with the Moose trade, this makes more sense, IMO. Lucano for Matos, straight up, would've been robbery.
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Sep 10, 2015 23:28
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How the hell did you get Vin back so cheap? I had him at 13.5 mil for 4 years when I dropped out and got Ayala. Ridiculous. I should never have dropped out.
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Sep 10, 2015 23:29
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ArtVandelay posted:How the hell did you get Vin back so cheap? I had him at 13.5 mil for 4 years when I dropped out and got Ayala. Ridiculous. I should never have dropped out. Yes this is what we have been telling you for years. Maybe you and evilbeard will figure out FA eventually.
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Sep 11, 2015 00:48
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