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Interesting they didn't translate it as "Monobear." Still, the way he straddles the line between real evil and childish evil is... very appropriate for his appearance.
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Nov 4, 2015 05:55
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Speedball posted:Interesting they didn't translate it as "Monobear." Still, the way he straddles the line between real evil and childish evil is... very appropriate for his appearance. I think that was an order handed down directly from Spike Chunsoft.  It's a pun on the word "monochrome" but that doesn't really work in English so I'm not entirely sure what they were going for there.
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Nov 4, 2015 06:43
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    : This is a serious emergency! Please, please! You gotta help me! : Just calm down, okay Hina?: But...but...! It's an [e-mer-gen-cyyy]!> e-mer-gen-cyyy : An emergency? What happened?  : Something's wrong with Toko. She's acting super strange!Well, I mean...she was acting pretty strange earlier, right? : ...What should we do, Byakuya?  : Since it's Toko...I must admit, I'm intrigued. I suppose we can take a second to see what's going on with her.: Are you sure? : Don't make me repeat myself.I...didn't expect that. I thought for sure he'd just say no, and that'd be the end of it.  : Okay, okay, come on! Hurry! *leaves*: W-Wait for us, Hina!  : It looks like she headed to the dorms. To Toko's room, most likely.: You're right!   : You guys are too slow!: I think you're just...too fast... : So? What's this emergency? : Well, after what happened in the girls locker room, we left Toko in her room so she could lay down. After a while, we came back to check on her. Ya know, see how she was doing. But when we did it was weird. She refused to come out, and she kept saying all this weird stuff.: Weird stuff?  : We should try talking to her ourselves.: Y-Yeah, good idea.  I may as well give it a shot... *Ding dong* The door swung open, slowly and silently.    : ...H-Holy crap...! An aura of negativity flowed out from behind the door, forcing a gasp out of me.  (Conversation): ...What?: Oh, um...nothing. It's just that...Hina was really worried about you, holing yourself up in your room...: Leave me a-alone...: Um, yeah, sure thing. But...could you open up, just for a second...?: ...Won't a-allow it...: Huh...?: I w-won't let Genocide Jack have control!*SLAM*  And just like that, she slammed the door in my face.  : Wh-What was that...?: She's been acting like that the whole time. When I rang a little while ago...   : I'll d-drive out...the killer... D-Drive out the murderous fiend... : It doesn't make any sense, right? I was afraid to leave her in there alone, so I tried to bust down her door but it felt like something was holding it shut on the other side. I couldn't even budge it...Toko was scared enough to even bar her door...? Does she think the same thing as Byakuya? Does she think the serial killer Genocide Jack really murdered Chihiro? Is that why Toko's so scared...? : Whatever it is, I'm really worried about her... Isn't there anyone who might be able to persuade her...?  : I think I know the person for the job. : Hey, Byakuya...you think you could ask her? To come out of her room, I mean.: ...Sure, whatever. : Huh? You're gonna talk to her, Byakuya? Wow, I guess you can be nice when you want to!: ...Byakuya stood in front of her door, not making a sound, and pressed the doorbell. *Ding dong* After a few moments... : Leave me alone! You're all s-s-s-so annoying... Ah--! Backula!: It's Byakuya.: ...I-I'm sorry. I couldn't k-keep our promise... But don't w-worry. Never again... I...! I won't let Genocide Jack have control ever again!*SLAM* And with that, the door slammed shut.  : Even Byakuya couldn't pull it off...: There's nothing else we can do. Let's get back to the investigation.: H-Hold on! Hey, Byakuya. What was Toko talking about just now? Something about a promise?  : Hm? Oh, I have no idea. Another one of her delusions, I'm sure.: B-But...  : If I say I don't know, that means I don't know. Just let Hina take care of her.: O-Oh...yeah, okay. I'll stay here and keep an eye on her.: Well then, let's go. *leaves*Without waiting for a reply, Byakuya sped away. : B-Byakuya!And I hurried to catch up.  I tried to talk to him several times as we walked but he didn't even look back, let alone say anything. He just kept on walking toward his destination. Finally, his feet brought him to a stop in front of a certain room...   : ...The library?: Come on, let's go in. : We haven't actually been behind this door before. Luckily, it's where Byakuya is leading us. If I remember, on the other side of this door... : It's the archive, right?: Hurry up and go inside.: Oh...here?: It'll all make sense once you're inside. Whoa! There's so many books and files. : ...And so much dust, too. : I would say there's enough value in this place to endure the dust.  Huh? It's a desk lamp...  Oh yeah. It's the same one I saw Byakuya using in the library before.  : Do you have a problem with that lamp? It was here before, then I moved it over there. It's too dark over there, so I thought I'd put it to good use.  This shelf is stuffed tight with files... Without really thinking about it, I picked one at random. : Ah, you have a sharp eye indeed to select that file.: ...Huh?  : That's the report on a presidential assassination. The original is kept at the national library. It won't be declassified for another thirty years. Are you sure you want to look at it now? There's no telling whose crosshairs you might wind up in for peeking at it...: ...Without making a sound, I returned the file to the shelf.   : There's so many files stuffed onto the shelf. What's in all these things...? : Those documents are...dangerous.: ...Dangerous?: They detail all the people who control the world from behind the scenes. Dangerous truth for a commoner.: You mean, like...members of the Diet or something? : No, I mean the once with real power, the secret council controlling everything from the shadows. If you're ready to be disappeared for it, take a look. There are some very...interesting people in there.: Y-You're just kidding...right?: Am I?I-I'll just let it go for now...   There's a ton of thick files stuffed onto the bookshelf.  : If you're thinking of looking through any of them, let me give you a little warning. Those things are filled with graphic, disturbing photos from all kinds of crime scenes. It's the kind of thing any normal person wouldn't ever want to look at. Be careful...: Huh? What do you mean? : All those files there are investigation reports related to different cold cases. Those are internal documents, for police eyes only. They're not the kind of thing you'd expect to leak.: Oh...?  There's a wooden box. ...It's empty. Although, judging by the smudges in the dust, it looks like there was something inside... : I wonder what it was... : There was an extension cord plugged in there. It proved very useful while I was in the library.An extension cord, huh...?  : So? Are you finally beginning to understand the true splendor of this library? The entire reason I was interested in the library...is because of this room right here. It's home to classified government documents, police records, things no ordinary person would ever see. Isn't it magnificent?: This...can't be for real, right?: That's your guys' problem. Anything that doesn't fit into your preconceived reality, you label it a lie.: Well, it's not that. It's just... It's not like I totally refuse to believe it, but... I mean, there's just so *much*. How could anyone have put all this together? : I suppose it goes to show just how much Hope's Peak truly wields. Or perhaps the mastermind may have wanted to provide us with enough entertainment to keep us from getting bored.U-Um... It's no use. I can't keep up with all this. It's just too unreal...  : What's wrong? You still can't believe it?: What about you? How can you believe it so easily? Things like that are usually impossible...: What do you mean, usually? Usual? Normal, ordinary, simple? Those things don't exist anywhere in the real world. If you don't understand what they actually represent, you don't understand the nature of anything.You don't pull your punches, do you? : Besides, what you consider "usual" is based on your common sense, right? But what makes you think your own "common sense" applies to me at all?: The documents gathered here are genuine. I have [reviewed them multiple times], so there is no doubt.> reviewed them multiple times : H-Hold on a second! You're saying you've read all these documents, and more than once!? But...all this has to be like top secret, confidential stuff, right? So why...? : My family has a reading room just like this at our home. Ours is bigger, of course. And not as dusty.: Huh...?: Members of the Togami family have access to any variety of government-related documents. That includes foreign powers as well as domestic.: H-How is that possible...? : I already told you, there's a secret council that controls the world from the shadows. My family is a member of that council. And I have within me the bloodline that will allow me to one day bend the world to my will... But to become such a ruler, I must know all levels of this world backwards and forwards. So whenever I have time, I like to review whatever documents and materials that interest me. Which is why I can proclaim, without a doubt, that the materials gathered here are the real thing.This is beyond believing or not believing. Byakuya is actually starting to scare me more than the actual mastermind... : And what always interested me the most were the "cold case" police investigation reports. Reading through those reports has always been a hobby of mine, ever since I was little. It's excellent mental exercise. I've solved more than a few of those cases just by reviewing the reports. And among all those reports, one of my recent favorites is the Genocide Jack case.As he talked, Byakuya grabbed a specific file from the shelf. : This is the complete case file. Every single report surrounding the Genocide Jack cases has been compiled in here.: Because there are so many, allow me to quickly summarize the main points. To begin, there are two notable characteristics in every Genocide Jack murder. The first characteristic is that at every crime scene, the word "bloodlust" is written in the victim's own blood. And the second... : ...is that when the victims are murdered, their bodies are suspended in a certain way."Bloodlust" written in blood, and the victim's body is suspended... It's exactly the same as what happened to Chihiro! : Save your surprise. The best part is yet to come. For the second characteristic, where the victims are suspended... The only ones who knew about that particular fact were members of the police and other higher-ups. By all accounts, nobody in the media ever found out.: Huh...?: In other words, no one on the news, no one online, *nobody* knew about that aspect of each crime. Only key officials and the killer himself knew about this act of "mounting" the victim.: Now, if you'll recall Chihiro's corpse, her body was most certainly mounted in this fashion.: So...how could the killer have known about suspending the victim...?: That's the key question. But in fact, the answer is quite simple. : The culprit isn't a copycat killer... It's the real Genocide Jack.: ...Gh! : That right there is the evidence that Genocide Jack has hidden himself among the rest of us.Th-Then...Genocide Jack really is... Such a brutal, fiendish killer really is walking around among us? : Hmhmhm. Things are really starting to get interesting, aren't they? I never imagined a killer with such a reputation would ever become part of our little game. Now, don't you think it would be good for you to take a look at what I've already seen? You might just manage to ferret out a clue or two. If you get down on your knees and beg, I might even show you myself.  : Umm, Byakuya...about that Genocide Jack case file... Could you let me see it?: Well, you didn't beg, but I guess it's okay this time. Feel free to look at it in here, but you can't take it with you.  Byakuya handed me the file, and I flipped through it with tense, nervous fingers. Suddenly my hand stopped... I had reached the page where photos from the scene of each crime had all ben collected.  The names of Genocide Jack's victims ran on for several pages. Ken Harada, 32. Tetsuhiro Honda, 17. Shoji Gaku, 23. Kanno Isei, 14. Takeshi Yoshida, 30. Komatsuna Taro, Takefumi Gono, Udhida Naohisa, Takeshi Masamune, Yuto Yumejima, there was no end to it... But one thing became perfectly clear as I read... All of the killer's countless victims were killed and suspended in exactly the same way. And at the scene of every murder, the word "bloodlust" was left in the victim's own blood.  : Now take a look at the next page, and you'll find another interesting tidbit.: The next page...?Profiling results? "All of the crimes took place either on weekdays at night, or during holidays, either day or night. The most common time for the killings to take place was on holidays, in the afternoon. Based on these facts, it could be suggested that the suspect may be a student. Evidence suggests that the suspect lingered at the scene, but when they did leave, they were in a panic. Because an eyewitness has never come forward, it's unlikely there was any external reason for this. This confused behavior suggests..."  : "...that the suspect may potentially suffer from dissociative identity disorder." : The key point here is that the culprit may well have a split personality.A split personality...? Like the kind of thing you see on TV? So I'm part of another totally unbelievable story... But this one is way more unbelievable than anything else up till now. Or...maybe it really isn't. I dunno, I feel like my mind has gone numb...   : Alright, we should get going soon.: Huh? Where are we going?: Anywhere but here. We've finished our business here, haven't we? *leaves*: Ah, wait! Byakuya! As usual, Byakuya turned and left without another word. I hurried out of the library to catch up.  : Well...this is where we part ways. I have some things I need to take care of before the class trial.: Huh? Just all of a sudden like that? : Come on, enough of your annoying misapprehensions. Did you really think we'd be together the whole time? Take responsibility for yourself and do something useful. Move the investigation forward on your own.: Well, goodbye. *leaves* And just like that, he was gone. Just as quickly as he'd asked me to join him, he'd cut me off. In the end, I felt like I was just some play thing getting tossed around. At the same time, I'd uncovered some really important clues thanks to him... Genocide Jack... He's the one that killed Chihiro. And that murderous fiend is one of us! But who is it...? I have to find that out, no matter what it takes. And to do that, there's somewhere I have to go investigate one more time... I have to go back to the crime scene, the girls locker room. I should also check the boys locker room, too... And the others might have come up with some info I might find useful, while I'm at it. I need to find out everything I can... : Byakuya's finally gone and we can conduct our own investigation now. We'll get to that next update.
FPzero fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2015 23:47
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I'm so glad they kept the "TOGAMI KNOWS WHO KILLED JFK" joke 
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Nov 6, 2015 00:50
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ChaosArgate posted:I think that was an order handed down directly from Spike Chunsoft. I just figured they wanted it left untranslated because it's the character's proper name. It would be like localizing Makoto's name as "True Seedlings" or something to that effect. So yeah, I didn't exactly lose any sleep over them deciding to just keep him as "Monokuma" for the Western release.
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Nov 6, 2015 03:12
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W.T. Fits posted:I just figured they wanted it left untranslated because it's the character's proper name. It would be like localizing Makoto's name as "True Seedlings" or something to that effect. So yeah, I didn't exactly lose any sleep over them deciding to just keep him as "Monokuma" for the Western release. Except it's not that simple. First, Monokuma isn't strictly a proper name. There are many of him, so it's sometimes used in plural form, for example. In a later game it's even the collective name of several different robot types, with a descriptive adjective attached to separate them. Second, they changed Syo to Jack, which is a much more straight adaptation of a real formal name, so they certainly don't have an agenda against this kind of thing. Third, even if it is a formal name, it's a formal name like "Mickey Mouse" or "Daffy Duck" or "The Brain". Now, the first two aren't treated the same all over the world. In my own native language they were left alone in translations, but I know many cases where the meaningful part was translated. I don't know of a single translation where "The Brain" was left in English, though. If you want a related example in the reverse direction, do you really think it would have been a good idea to keep Brainy Smurf "Schtroumpf à Lunettes" just because it's his formal name? I'm still convinced Monobear is right and Monokuma is wrong, and I'm getting more convinced with every new member of the robot family added in the sequels. The interviews certainly make it sound like it was an order from Spike-Chunsoft and not a translation decision. I guess the character's kind of became the company's mascot now and marketing wanted a consistent global name.
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Nov 6, 2015 03:39
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God the police suck. "Somebody's been killing lots of people, aged 14 and up. We know when the killer typically strikes, and we know what demographic the killer likely falls into, and the killer uses lots and lots of pairs of scissors that are made of a special material whose fabrication we should be able to trace, and the scissors are tooled using specialized equipment we should be able to trace, and these being metal instruments they've got to hold fingerprints really, really well. If this Genocide Jack has really been killing thousands of people and lingering at the crime scenes behaving erratically then we've definitely lifted fingerprints from somewhere by now, and if this Genocide Jack is a student then we should have no trouble pulling all the student records from across the country and having everybody quickly and discreetly fingerprinted." "Oh, and for the killer to be only a student and to have killed thousands of people, the killer must be striking pretty much every single day or so, or maybe multiple times a day, so catching this killer as soon as possible has got to be a top priority. WHATEVER SHALL WE DO"
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Nov 6, 2015 03:41
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orenronen posted:I'm still convinced Monobear is right and Monokuma is wrong, and I'm getting more convinced with every new member of the robot family added in the sequels. To be fair, all of the media in this series that isn't the two main games is awful, and better translated names wouldn't have fixed that. I honestly just think that "Monokuma" sounds better and rolls off the tongue better than "Monobear."
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Nov 6, 2015 04:07
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Plus the pun connecting Monokuma to Monochrome is still there, so while Monobear is more correct it looses that. I don't think anyone could connect Monobear to monochrome.
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Nov 6, 2015 04:33
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EponymousMrYar posted:Plus the pun connecting Monokuma to Monochrome is still there, so while Monobear is more correct it looses that. I don't think anyone could connect Monobear to monochrome. I bet no English speaker connects Monokuma to Monochrome either, at least not anyone who actually needs the k sound there to realize the Mono in the name ties up with the black-and-white theme and is short for monochrome. I also bet most Japanese players don't get the pun either. It's not a very good one. Here's the most important thing about the name, as far as I'm concerned. A Japanese person who sees it, even out of context, knows immediately it's a bear's name, and that the bear is most likely a cartoon comedy bear. It's exactly like Mickey Mouse in that respect. Then, every time the name comes up, the bear part of it jumps out and reaffirms that it is, in fact, a cartoon bear name, which puts the reader in a certain frame of mind. Put it in an English translation and, except for the tiny fragment of the audience (present company included) who knows what the Japanese word for bear is, it becomes a random string of syllables like every other Japanese name in the game. For most characters that's okay - whatever tiny amount of relevant literal meaning behind their names is disposable. But I don't think it is here. A translator's job is to judge when to keep things literal and when the spirit behind a choice of words is more important than staying completely literal. They should also make that decision for the most common type of reader, who doesn't know anything about the source language. This is extremely difficult, but I think in this case most translators would agree with me and that had management not interfered with this particular decision they would have made the change.
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Nov 6, 2015 05:09
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I think another example of this (that oren probably pointed out in his LP) is Teddie from Persona 4, who goes by Kuma in Japanese. Same reasoning as Monokuma; the name Kuma immediately draws the bear connection for Japanese speakers, but that means nothing to most Anglophones, so Atlus changed his name into something that does mean something for an audience that primarily speaks English that evokes the same response that the original does for its audience.
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Nov 6, 2015 05:15
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Teddie Chromevelt.
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Nov 6, 2015 05:17
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E:Holy hell, this was originally supposed to be like, two paragraphs I don't know what happened here. I'm calling it here, Byakuya/Togami has to be the killer, it fits too perfectly. He had the means, motive, opportunity, and I bet anything he'd been planning this since Leon died, if not earlier. For starters, Genocide Jack: he's the only person we know to have spent any measure of time in the library, and since this game is all Illuminati and poo poo he'd be the only one familiar enough with the case and character to appropriate it for his purposes (since apparently serial killers are required reading for world leaders). And make no mistake, given the very small timeframe between the library opening and Chihiro's untimely demise (RIP ;_;) the only way one could have found the case file is if either A: it fell out of the bookcase by pure serendipity as someone's investigating the archives, OR B: someone had pre-existing knowledge and knew to seek out the case file. I can't remember for sure, but iirc Byakuya's the one that made first mention of Jack, and planted the seed in everyone's heads. Subtle. Another red flag is that when he shows the file to Makoto he calls attention to likelihood that the killer has a Dissociative Personality Disorder, which is directly relevant in two ways, relating to him and Toko. Byakuya's a perfect candidate for such an individual, as his overt narcissism and outright contempt for the others make him a perfect fit for what iirc is referred to as a "Type A" serial killer: strong, commanding, ruthless, domineering, and sociopathic. Think "American Psycho", minus the business cards. Byakuya fits the profile to a "T". Given the combination of immense pressure being born into the family of Alexanders--having the proverbial greatness thrust upon you--and the utter disdain the haves well, have for the have-nots esp. in such a rigidly hierarchical culture there are a million plausible origins for such a disorder. I'll touch on Toko's connection later. He's even said in very plain terms that he intends to win the game, practically a preemptive admission of guilt. He clearly has the motive. He also had the means. He showed Makoto the repository for PDAs of the deceased, a rather valuable and well-hidden secret. This isn't to say he's the only one that found out, but it narrows down the possible suspects a good bit. As for the murder weapon itself, without a way to run the fingerprints that may or may not be there, potentially amongst others we can only postulate as to the nature of the attack itself. Now I'll readily admit I'm no MD, but that's about as clear cut a case of a fatal contusion from blunt force trauma. We don't get a good look at the corpse, but between what we do see and the blood pattern on the dumbbell, it was almost certainly a single, precise strike. The head and skull are remarkably intact considering the weapon, which implies a few things: 1. the perpetrator had to have some familiarity with human anatomy to make the swing, but not so much to destroy the crainum. 2. the perpetrator had to have confidence in their ability to hit the "sweet spot", since the skull is remarkably sturdy a near miss or poor follow-through would have rent a second swing necessary. And 3. The perpetrator had to have the strength to make the swing. Once again, Byakuya checks all these boxes. There's also a 4th factor worth considering: the murder occurred in the middle of the night and the strike was almost certainly from the front which means that the perpetrator was likely unassuming in appearance and disposition, in order to be able to close the distance without spooking Chihiro. There's too many variables to predict with real certainty here, but at least physically Byakuya fits the bill. Finally we have the opportunity. This So we've got a lot of compelling reasons for why Byakuya would fit as the murderer, but good science dictates that we design our conclusions around the data, not the other way around, and good investigation is no different. Unfortunately, we're cursed with a rather noted lack of facts, so we'll have to settle for likelihoods. For this I'm going to get a little meta. Danganronpa--like any other piece of fiction--is, well, fictional, which means that it should by and large adhere to a number of genre and format conventions. One of the biggest is Chekhov's Gun a kind of Occam's Razor for fiction. It is especially prevalent in mysteries and Whodunits, which means that the culprit is almost certainly someone that got big screen-time either immediately leading up to or following the murder. Rather than run through the list of those not involved one at a time, I'll just name off the big figures. In addition to Byakuya, we've got Sakura, Mondo, Makoto, Aoi, and Toko. Makoto is of course, exonerated by virtue of Mondo: Mondo's a near perfect fit for everything but motive. He's big, strong, and has plenty of reason to be pumping iron at the gym. He's also more than capable of making the killing blow. He's intelligent that he could have figured out the PDAs and hatched the plan. Intuitively, it seems like a pretty good fit. However, everything we've seen up to this point suggests he's not a manipulator, and favors brawn over brain, so I'll generally take stock in his word. And his word is that he clearly has a soft-spot for, and perhaps even some affection for Chihiro; AND on top of that he seems to have an almost physical revulsion against violence towards women. He made a promise to take care of and help Chihiro, so I can only imagine how heartbroken he probably is. But whatever, that's touchy-feely bullshit. On the practical side, the crime scene doesn't at all match the MO for a hot-headed man of violence. If Mondo had done it I bet my account that he would have left a real mess, not a clean corpse neatly hung up. He also doesn't have any real motive to murder beyond riding his Harley again, and if he really can't last a week without his hog he's not man enough to run a gang in the first place. Sakura: Sakura's appearance is by virtue of her earlier connection to Chihiro. She appeared to have a relationship with Chihiro somewhat resembling Mondo's, that of a protector and guardian. She keeps mostly to herself, and represents something of an unknown quantity: she fits the criteria for the murderer pretty well, with the notable exception that she has no clear motivation to leave, and I can't imagine what could compel her to murder in cold blood. But there's a big difference between "I can't imagine" and "it cannot be", so I'm writing her off for a completely different reason: she's not interesting (not a slight on the character). Pretty much THE rule for fiction is that whatever you're writing has to be compelling/entertaining, and Sakura's been given insufficient characterization so far to make her either an intriguing mystery or an interesting person. Doubly so because she's had almost no character development since the murder (that we've seen so far). If she did it we would have heard more from/about her by now. Aoi: Mostly prevalent as a guard dog, in this case for Toko. We hear a lot from her, but mostly in the forum of status reports, suggesting that she's a vehicle for plot development but not the plot development itself. And, quite frankly, she's a dunce and ditzy with a capital D-I-T-Z-Y. Maybe it's just my inherent bias, but no matter how hard I try I can't imagine her actually killing anyone, especially not premeditated. Because her focus here centers around Toko, her presence actively casts suspicion on: Toko: Toko's a big one, so much so I'm giving her paragraph TWO linebreaks. Now I wouldn't go so far as to call Toko a nutter, but she's clearly a little unstable. There's a lot of evidence suggesting that Toko's the serial killer, both from within and without, but it's the way that it's presented that leads me to believe it's Byakuya, and that Toko is a red herring. Being a writing prodigy, Toko's clearly intelligent, which means she certainly had the means to plan and setup the murder, with one notable exception: Jack. If the police file on Jack is truly double-triple-extra top-secret, there's no way Toko could have known all the minutiae she'd need to concoct a fitting copy-cat unless she had that moment of serendipity from the first paragraph, or someone shared it with her. You might see where I'm going with this. (Editor's Note: I was going to cover this in a separate paragraph, but it fits too well here so please bear(bare?) with me). Unless it's the big pink gorilla I've been ignoring so far, and she or one of the other students IS Genocide Jack. To find out, take a look at the murders again. They're all an absolute bloodbath, the sort of thing you only see in absolutely berserk sadists. This is the sort of thing you see in devolving serial killers, the ones that are losing their ability to function in society entirely, and by function I don't mean social faux pas, I mean where encounters with random people leads to the police getting called. A dissociative personality disorder would explain this kind of behavior, but only to an extent. Can you imagine anyone besides Toko that would fit that bill? But that's the thing, Toko's too perfect a fit, it's too easy. Between her strange behavior and Byakuya's clues the solution to the case fell right into our laps! That doesn't make sense from a storytelling or game design perspective. It must be something else. If we look closer at the case file murders, and contrast it with Chihiro's, one thing in particular stands out: the strength of the murderer! In both of the pictures in the case file the victims were concrete wall! But despite being driven in at oblique angles, there's almost no sign of the chipping you'd see on the wall if they'd been driven by hammer and chisel nor the marks on the scissors, which means it would have had to been done in one fluid motion. The only two people at the Academy with *maybe* the strength to do that are Mondo and Sakura! But! If you go back to Chihiro the MO is completely different! Jack overpowered his victims (likely by hand), pinned them to the wall, and slowly tortured them to death. Chihiro's killer exercised an extreme economy of force, but that can't hide the fact that Chihiro's head was largely intact, compared to the mess someone with the superhuman strength of Jack would have left. We can therefore conclude that with a very high degree of certainty that none of the students are Jack, and it was in fact a copycat killer! So why isn't Toko the killer? Three reasons. First, she lacks the strength to confidently swing the dumbbell. Second, she lacks the social graces to keep Chihiro from getting suspicious, and finally she could have only gotten the information on Jack from Byakuya, and Byakuya would never volunteer information to help someone else win the game. He'd have to do the dirty work himself. At this point the question becomes "why did Toko ally with Byakuya"? I think we now have enough to build a narrative. At some point Byakuya comes up with the idea of Jack as a cover to perform his murder, the idea likely coinciding with the opening of the library. His belligerent demeanor (even more so than usual) reaffirms the supposition that something is going on. The plan is solid, but the problem is that he needs a fall guy so that the vote is unanimous. If it turns out to be a hung jury, everyone dies, and given his contempt for other people he's not about to assume they have the brains to agree on someone. So all he needs is a patsy to pin it on. Enter Toko. Like a goddamn gift from high there she is, bow and all, angelic chorus, the works. With her skewed perception of love, falling head-over-heels dA fanfiction with Byakuya gives him immense power over her, and he's easily able to co-opt her into his scheme with a little charm and I-don't-wanna-know. The plan is set. Byakuya sneaks in at night, murders Chihiro, and Toko is conveniently absent the next day. With the appearance of the corpse she goes none-too-subtly batshit insane, and with a little push and nudge from Byakuya he's able to frame his "Genocide Jack" narrative over the whole affair. Of course, every good game has competition and this one's no exception: in this case, Kyoko and Makoto. Makoto is the wildcard, as despite appearances he was able to successfully cast off the blame from the frame job on him. Kyoko's an introspective loner (and about the only person who knows what the gently caress she's doing), so getting close to her could just as easily do more harm than good. Makoto, on the other hand is a doormat that conducts all his investigations by committee. Taking advantage of the weak link, he inserts himself into the investigation and starts subtly manipulating the investigation. After all, what better way to keep a step ahead of your foes than by putting on the sheep's clothing and helping them make those moves? Meanwhile, Makoto blithely wanders from room to room like a rambunctious puppy. So in summary:  Disclaimer: I hate Byakuya so much I pray he gets killed off soon instead of someone innocent like Chihiro. P.S.: Wow, I knew Kojima had a really rough separation from Konami but I never expected this.
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Nov 6, 2015 12:38
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Speaking of, that's one of the lazier photo editing efforts I've seen so far from the translation team. Not only did they copy and paste the location of the two murders displayed here (they were different originally), but the "Blood Lust" graffiti seems to also have been copied and pasted instead of hand-drawn into each victim's photo. And then the close-up on the victim's hand on the left page was not edited at all so you can see the チ that is at the top of the Japanese graffiti instead of the English edit. Besides, who can even make graffiti written in a 90 degree angle like that? At least tilt the thing if you can't completely change it to be horizontal.
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Nov 6, 2015 12:57
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orenronen posted:Speaking of, that's one of the lazier photo editing efforts I've seen so far from the translation team. Not only did they copy and paste the location of the two murders displayed here (they were different originally), but the "Blood Lust" graffiti seems to also have been copied and pasted instead of hand-drawn into each victim's photo. I didn't want to point it out because I've nitpicked the translation like every update but yeah that's pretty shocking. As if the original graffiti wasn't already obviously enough done with five minutes in photoshop.
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Nov 6, 2015 13:10
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Lacedaemonius posted:Disclaimer: I hate Byakuya so much I pray he gets killed off soon instead of someone innocent like Chihiro. 
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Nov 6, 2015 13:37
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That's a really good analysis, Lacedaemonius, although I admit that I didn't read all of it.
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Nov 6, 2015 14:52
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:God the police suck. Has there ever been any video game with a competent police force, though? That's not a joke. I'm seriously asking.
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Nov 6, 2015 15:59
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Well, now I just feel bad for Lacedaemonius. Oh man this case. The case that launched a million Tumblr arguments pretty much until this game wasn't the fandom of choice anymore. But yeah Byakuya is a dick. Why did he and Fortune Teller dude have to survive the game and not Chihiro or Sakura? 
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Nov 6, 2015 16:28
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hopeandjoy posted:Why did he and Fortune Teller dude have to survive the game and not Chihiro or Sakura? I don't have a problem with the former, but of all the characters to survive, Hagakure seems the most pointless. It feels like he only lived to deliver that gagline.
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Nov 6, 2015 16:37
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Spoilers: Genocide Jack is not in fact one person, but hundreds of hosed-up people who all follow Fukawa's sockpuppet account on fanfiction.net where she posts weird, lovely deathfics about her own romance novel characters People always die the same way in those -- some dude pins them to the wall with pairs of elaborately-described handmade scissors and sticks more pairs of scissors into them until they die -- but the fans don't care and the murder scenes are so elaborately written that there's a huge following that keeps wanting to try it out Basically, Fukawa sucks Pittsburgh Lambic fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 17:06
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:That's a really good analysis, Lacedaemonius, although I admit that I didn't read all of it. But I did, and I will second that it is really well thought out. Good job! I will not confirm nor deny anything said in it, but I just love speculation posts like this. They are what made Oren's first LP so great!
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Nov 6, 2015 18:04
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Has there ever been any video game with a competent police force, though? Grand Theft Auto games. Let's ignore, for a moment, the fact you can elude them by getting your car spraypainted. The cops are like hornets who just get more mad the more of them you kill until eventually they bring out tanks and attack helicopters to destroy you, and by that point, they probably will. As far as good detectives though... unless the detective is the protagonist himself, cops are seldom of use in fictionland because that'd draw away from the hero of the story.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:15
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Lacedaemonius posted:*A huge post* Oh man, I love this sort of speculation. It was one of my favorite parts of reading the original LPs and seeing what sort of theories people were coming up with. It got a little (a lot) crazy by the end of the LP but it was enjoyable. This makes me wish we had more people reading that didn't know the plot of the game. By my count I think there are only 2-4 posters here that haven't seen the game before.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:25
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:That's a really good analysis, Lacedaemonius, although I admit that I didn't read all of it. The only part that's really worth reading is the narrative at the end (last paragraph) and *maybe* the bit on Toko right before it, since everything preceding is axioms to set up the final paragraph. Hobgoblin2099 posted:Has there ever been any video game with a competent police force, though?
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Nov 7, 2015 03:56
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Has there ever been any video game with a competent police force, though? Without spoiling anything, the cops in Persona 4 do pretty well for folks who can't know about the supernatural.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:33
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FPzero posted:Oh man, I love this sort of speculation. It was one of my favorite parts of reading the original LPs and seeing what sort of theories people were coming up with. It got a little (a lot) crazy by the end of the LP but it was enjoyable. This makes me wish we had more people reading that didn't know the plot of the game. By my count I think there are only 2-4 posters here that haven't seen the game before. I've seen the game before but we're about where I stopped playing so I'm not sure what comes next. The speculation is pretty awesome, though.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:40
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Jefepato posted:Without spoiling anything, the cops in Persona 4 do pretty well for folks who can't know about the supernatural. Dojima's great, but the player characters are the ones solving most of the mystery. I'll take your word on those other examples, though, as I'm not familiar with any of them aside from minor knowledge of GTA. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 07:01
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 : Now that Byakuya is finally gone, I'm finally able to resume narration duties instead of him dragging us everywhere. Our first stop on our individual investigation is the pool hallway, where we can find Hifumi hanging around.  : Ding ding ding! Hifumi has discovered evidence revealing the identity of the culprit! Hmhmhm... Another stat increase for me!: Evidence? What did you find? : I cannot reveal that just yet! But I guarantee that what I found will steal the killer's break from his lungs!Are you sure about that...?   : Oh yeah! Miss Ludenburg said she'd witnessed something worthwhile, too.: Really? What did she see? : She refused to tell me. It's like when a girl bullies the boy she like, right? Right!?: Okay, so...where is Celeste now?: The warehouse by the dorms. She was there, but at the same time...not there.What's it gonna be...? : We'll keep that in mind for later. Right now, let's check out the boys locker room. : There are a couple of things to see in here. Huh. This poster... It's a popular boy band called Tornado. Somehow it doesn't quite seem to fit in the *boys* locker room.   There's a strange stain on the carpet... What...is it?   : Back in the girls locker room, it looks like Kyoko is done with her examination of the crime scene. : Hey, Kyoko...have you made any progress on your investigation? : Generally speaking. But I have to get going. I have something unrelated to take care of.: Something besides the investigation...? What...is it? : Nothing you need to worry about. Just concentrate on the murder.: B-But...  : Before I go, let me give you one piece of advice. You should examine Chihiro's body one more time. Thoroughly. Also, her handbook is missing. You might want to determine its whereabouts. : That's it. I'll be praying for your success. *leaves*With that, Kyoko turned and left the girls locker room. : I guess I'll take another look at the body, then...And...Chihiro's handbook is missing? That's definitely worth worrying about...    Kyoko said I should...examine the body one more time. : I know she said "thoroughly" but I do have my limits... Well, I'd better give it a shot anyway. Let's see... Chihiro's hands are bound with...what looks like some kind of rope. The rope was used to prop her up in a kind of crucifix position. ...Huh?  This rope has a...plug!? Wait, so then...this isn't a rope at all! But the more I think about it, the more that's not the only thing that concerns me.  Chihiro's fatal injury was the blow to the head... Which means someone struck her in the head in order to kill her. That's right... There's the issue of her being suspended, and the fatal blow... At first, I didn't see any reason to think too much about either of them.  But seeing them again after looking through the Genocide Jack file, something's not quite right... What does this all mean...?  Well, the one thing most likely to tie all these mysteries together is the true nature of the "rope" that was used to suspend Chihiro. And to figure that out, there's a certain place I need to revisit and look over again. Plus, it might help to look at the Genocide Jack case file one more time.   It's the bloodstained poster. The blood is the most noteworthy part, but the big-breasted swimsuit model is pretty noticeable, too. A girls locker room doesn't seem like the kind of place you'd find something like this... : Oh, but wait...that reminds me! The poster in the other locker room is...That's right! There's definitely something strange about this...  In the boys locker room, there's a poster of a popular boy band... In the girls locker room, there's a poster of a big-breasted swimsuit model... Could the posters have been switched...? But if they were...why? What reason would anyone have? : Maybe I should talk to someone who knows a little more about the locker rooms.  : Who better to talk to about the locker rooms than Sakura? : You spend a lot of time exercising in the girls locker room, right Sakura? : I've used it nearly every day since it opened up. Sometimes Hina and I use it together.: Okay then, let me ask you something... Do you think the posters in the boys and girls locker rooms could have been switched?  : Sorry, I can't really say. I never paid any attention to the posters.: I see...  : But there *is* something that's been bothering me about the locker room... You see, I like to drink a little protein coffee every time I finish exercising.: We have protein coffee?: In the warehouse. It's not the highest quality, but I don't have a lot of other options. I mix protein powder with coffee, and down a glass of it after exercising. Anyway, the other day, I spilled some on the carpet in the girls locker room, and it left a stain.: A stain...? But I don't see any stain on the carpet now...: Exactly. I noticed it earlier--the stain has disappeared. I can only assume someone came along and cleaned it up. But still, isn't it unusually clean? As if there was never a stain here to begin with...  : To check on that "rope" we need to return to the library. Huh? The lamp won't turn on... Oh, I see... It's not plugged in. The lamps cord isn't long enough to reach the outlet from here. But...last time I saw it, it was definitely on, and it was definitely right here.  Oh, that's right. Byakuya was using an extension cord! But there's no extension cord here now... I wonder if...   : Makoto also wanted to check the Genocide Jack file again. I want to take another look at Genocide Jack's case file... : Hmm...I know it was around here somewhere... Huh...? It's gone!Did someone take it out of the archive? But the only one who would do something like that... I can't think of anyone but Byakuya...! : Swing and a miss. : Back downstairs in the halls we can find Taka.  : Maybe we should have confessed our embarrassing secrets after all...! : Dammit! I'm sorry, Chihiro... It's all because I wasn't strong enough! : We can also find Hiro in the main hall.  : O-Oh! Hey Makoto, what's up!? : Ah, I haven't been up to anything myself, that's for sure. Definitely haven't looked inside the mailbox! : Somehow I doubt that, Hiro. Next stop is the warehouse. Hifumi told us Celeste was here with information.  : Celeste... What are you doing here? : This warehouse is amazing. It has absolutely everything one might need to live a full life. From food to clothes to towels... There's an endless supply to choose from.: I see that, but...have you found anything related to the case?  : I knew you were going to ask me that. I thought talking about the warehouse itself might misdirect you, but I see it was pointless.: Then you did find something? : Very well. I will tell you, and *only* you. Last night, I saw her here... Chihiro was in the warehouse.: What? Really!?: This was right before nighttime.  (BG Music) (Conversation) : Hm? What are you doing out this late? : Oh, um...I was just...: Are you planning to go exercise, perhaps?: What!? H-How did you know...?: Because I can see a blue track jacket sticking out of that duffel bag you're carrying...: Oh, you're right... Thanks. Well...I'd better get going. I'm kind of in a hurry.: ...  : She stuffed the jacket into her bad in a hurry. It was almost like she was trying to hide it... And just like that, she was gone. : I assumed she was merely stocking up to go exercise in the morning, but it would appear she ignored the nighttime rule, and headed directly to the girls locker room. If she hadn't broken out rule, none of this ever would have happened...  : You get what you deserve, I suppose.So apparently she went to the girls locker room late at night in order to exercise without anyone knowing. But the strange thing is there was no trace of the track jacket or duffel bag Celeste said she saw Chihiro carrying. Which would mean the killer would have gotten rid of it somehow...   : Hina's hanging around in the dining hall instead of outside Toko's room. Let's see what she's up to. : Oh, Hina. How's Toko doing?: Same as before. She won't come out, and she just keeps mumbling something about Genocide Jack. : So I just left her there.: Y-You...left her? : My head was all swimmy, and I was getting pretty hungry... : Oh, but don't worry! I'm gonna head back as soon as I'm done eating. Toko's not exactly pleasant, but I'm still worried about her.: Speaking of which, what are you eating? : A donut, of course!Of course...?   : There's two things I'm sure God created--outer space, and donuts!: Really...?: I bet Chihiro would've liked to eat more donuts. Maybe that was her one big regret...  : Ahh, I should've tried to spend more time with her...: Come to think of it...who *did* she spend time with?  : Yeah, she was a little bit strange. Didn't really hang out with the other girls much... It was like...like she was trying to keep her distance from us.: Actually, Sakura said something similar. She said that even though you and her invited Chihiro to exercise with you, she always refused...: Yup, it's true. And it wasn't just us, either. It was like she stayed away from all the girls.: Was she just...shy?: I dunno, she talked to the boys all the time. Isn't it kinda weird to be shy around your own sex, but totally fine with the opposite sex?  : Oh, wait! Maybe... Maybe she was used to guys spoiling her. The law says you can't judge a book by its cover, right?You think so? I never really saw her as that kind of girl...    *Ding dong, bing bong*    : Erm, so ah...I'm getting tired of waiting. Shall we just plunge right in? It's the moment you've all been waiting for...the class trial! You remember where to meet, right? Please go through the red door on the 1st floor of the school! Puhuhu. See you soon!Begin the class trial, or...? : It's about to begin. The red door...is right through here. ...    : Ahem, so...is everyone ready to--whaaat!? : Am I blind, or are we missing someone?  : Yeah, Toko's not here.: And Toko is...? : You really don't remember...?  : Kidding! I'm just kidding. How could I forget that little nutjob? She's a crucial part of the class trial this time! : Okie dokie, I'll go ahead and drag her out here kicking and screaming. Just one moment, please! And just like he said, a few minutes later he reappeared, dragging Toko behind him.   : Nng...ghh... I t-told him I didn't want to, but...h-he forced me! I can't believe you would d-drag a girl around...  : Terrible...! You're t-terrible! : Whew! So NOW everyone's here, right? Okay then, hustle onto the elevator and let's get this show on the road! : I'll see you guys down there! *leaves* : So, shall we get going? It's time to find out who killed Chihiro.Chihiro... Chihiro Fujisaki... She was so gentle, so calm and meek. Nobody had any problems with her...  Someone made the choice to kill...a girl like that...  And that murderer...is one of us. Someone standing right here... : We have no choice, right? We have to do this...: Yes. I gave a small nod in reply. With one last deep breath, I walked toward the elevator on shaky legs. With each step forward, I could feel my heart starting to race faster and faster. As soon as everyone was on...the elevator began to descend. I couldn't get a handle on my emotions, couldn't stop speculating...  The steel box sank with heavy clunking sounds deeper and deeper into the ground. And as we went deeper, the uneasiness in my heart grew bigger and bigger. The elevator was unaffected, however, and continued to descend without hesitation. Until finally...  ...it came to a sudden stop.   : What do you think? I redecorated! Isn't it so fresh? Isn't it so EXCITING!?: Don't waste our time with stupid questions. Let's get this over with.: Good, good, you're rip-raring to go! Gotta say, I don't hate it! Not at all! Okay then, let's get this show on the road!  : Everyone, please find your assigned seats! And so, the curtain opened once again... A deadly judgment... A deadly deception... A deadly betrayal... A deadly riddle, a deadly defense, a deadly faith... A deadly...class trial!   : It's time for the Class Trial once again. The ticker along the bottom reads the following:"The bizarre class trial begins again. Why was Chihiro murdered? Is the killer hiding within the group? Is there any help to be found in this series of murders...?"  : In the Skills menu, I've taken a moment to equip Upshift and Algorithm in addition to all the skills I had equipped for Trial #1. I explained what these did back when I got them earlier in the chapter, but here's the game's explanation for each:Upshift: Increases your aim speed. Effective during the Nonstop Debate and the Hangman's Gambit. Costs 1 SP. -This skill came from Mondo. The increased cursor speed is not absolutely necessary but there's a mechanic introduced in this trial that makes having a faster cursor much more desirable in the Nonstop Debate. Plus, I just like having a fast cursor. Algorithm: Increases the speed of memorizing a statement. Effective during the Nonstop Debate. Costs 2 SP. -This skill came from Chihiro. If I'm remembering the game correctly, we'll be encountering the Memorization mechanic during Nonstop Debates in this trial. This skill just speeds up how long it takes to memorize something. It sounds like a quality of life skill but later on in the game I'm sure it will be quite handy. : We're actually using all our SP at this point for a total of 11/11 SP, so if I want to keep using these skills and new ones later I'll need to get some more SP from Free Times.: Next is the list of Truth Bullets we got during our investigation.  : ...to the head with a blunt object. She was killed instantly. : ...stated that she desired help with her efforts.: She may have been meeting someone in the locker room the night she was murdered.  : ...else. : ...possible for two people to enter at the same time.: Additionally, lending someone your handbook is a violation of school regulations.  : ...handbook is Leon's.: However, Monokuma claims it's very unlikely that Leon's handbook would have broken. : ...found at the scene of each crime, written in blood.: Profiling indicates the killer is likely a student suffering from a split personality. : ...well with her male classmates.  : ...band popular with teenage girls.     : ...clothes were not found at the crime scene.: Celeste had not told anyone other than Makoto about this encounter.: Next time, the Second Class Trial begins.
FPzero fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2015 00:01
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Oh yeah, I forgot that there's a break in the middle of this trial to reveal THAT.
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Nov 8, 2015 00:22
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I forgot the twist to this trial too before this update. Haha.
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Nov 8, 2015 01:15
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Never played or seen anything about this before and I've been marathoning the thread. Now that I'm caught up and with various hints at a twist being dropped, time for speculation! No spoiler tags because hell if I know what's going on. Is the twist here that Chihiro (that's the murder victim, yes?) is actually a super-feminine guy? I'm guessing that was their secret, someone found out about it due to the locker room segregation and one or both parties flipped their poo poo and now Chihiro is dead. I'm actually inclined to pin the blame on Taka or Mondo (Breaking gender norms is a huge offense/No way would I be attracted to a dude) and Mondo really fits with the supposed murder weapon, but that doesn't explain all this Genocide Jack stuff. Still, that twist explains basically everything about Chihiro's behavior leading up to their demise.
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Nov 8, 2015 05:07
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Posts like that are why I can't hate Dangan Ronpa. A good murder mystery is just so fun. Can't wait for #3 so I can enjoy the heck out of it and then complain about it!
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Nov 8, 2015 07:06
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This game has some really rad music during the trial scenes. I love it.
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Nov 8, 2015 08:34
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Yeah, guess I'll start chiming in more with the "never played it, here's my theory" speculation.Buried alive posted:Never played or seen anything about this before and I've been marathoning the thread. Now that I'm caught up and with various hints at a twist being dropped, time for speculation! No spoiler tags because hell if I know what's going on. The gang leader guy even refers to Chihiro as "Dude" at one point. I was wondering about that too. Seems like maybe it's a motive behind the murder -- someone finds out the secret, and Chihiro confronts them but fails? But that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It reads like they want you to think that fan-fic girl is the serial killer. But that would be way too easy, and it is probably a copycat because the murder isn't with those knives in the body, it's a head contusion. I am leaning towards the Togami kid. He knows the secret about the serial killer, is smarter than everyone else, knows Makoto is easy to manipulate (because the pop star did already), and he knows about the file and the extension cord. Plus nobody says anything when he wanders off, so he doesn't have an airtight alibi. I think he told Makoto these things to set himself up in the role of "See, it couldn't be me, why would I tell anyone about this" and hope to "win the game" by getting people to convict the fan-fic girl. He found out the secret and kills her because he sees the opportunity for a great setup, the rich heir kid pulling the strings like a true illuminati leader. Also, I'm pretty sure the mystery girl is Super High School Level CIA Agent.
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Nov 8, 2015 10:18
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Leif. posted:The gang leader guy even refers to Chihiro as "Dude" at one point. I was wondering if this was also the case in the Japanese version.
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Nov 8, 2015 14:01
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Leif. posted:... That's my take on Kyoko too. Either that or actually Genocide Jack and Toko (author girl) is even more crazy in that she's got a split personality where one believes it's Jack, but isn't. I wouldn't put it past this game to pull something like that. Also I'm still WTF-ing at the swapped carpet and poster.
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Nov 8, 2015 16:35
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Carbon dioxide posted:I was wondering if this was also the case in the Japanese version. Well... Going back through the version on the LP archive, the translated version from Orenronen has "That kid... she sure had a huge complex about her own weakness." That kid seems non-gender specific so he'd have to chip in to say for sure whether it implies a certain gender.
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Nov 8, 2015 16:45
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alcharagia posted:Posts like that are why I can't hate Dangan Ronpa. A good murder mystery is just so fun. Can't wait for #3 so I can enjoy the heck out of it and then complain about it! I love crazy, convoluted plots too but I never bothered to figure out how #2 ended after the LP here stopped halfway through (obviously don't say anything about it here)
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Nov 8, 2015 17:35
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Quick post to move to the new page... e: Just realized as I was about to post the update that I hadn't changed this update's portraits over to my new portrait presentation style. The update will come in a little bit once I get the first two trial updates converted over. FPzero fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 02:50
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