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V for Vegas
Aug 31, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Star Ruler 2 and Distant Worlds both have orbiting planets and to be honest I just find them more annoying than anything. The travel time within a system is a fraction of a second so it's not like orbital positioning really matters for timing, but every time you zoom back into the system you have to find where everything is again.

Orbits were important in DW for pre-warp starts when being on one side of a star or the other makes a huge difference. It would be nice to have that in Stellaris if you have to take a while to develop warp tech.

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Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

The coolest Fuhrer there ever was


V for Vegas posted:

Orbits were important in DW for pre-warp starts when being on one side of a star or the other makes a huge difference. It would be nice to have that in Stellaris if you have to take a while to develop warp tech.

The pre-warp starts are really tempting in that game but it's like 15 minutes of just tooling around boringly while you bribe pirates because you have literally no choice otherwise.

As was said before, Star Ruler 2 has hella realistic physics and it's just more annoying than fun- the planet rotation is annoying but the newtonian ship physics is also super annoying.

I honestly hope Paradox leaves the bloat-features for the modders.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort


Panzeh posted:

If you're going to have a lot of planetary management you have to limit the number, though. I mean if a planet is just a set of sliders like Moo1, so be it, but if you are going all out, you do have to keep the number reasonably low.
The hope is that there will not be a lot of planetary management! I dont think anybody particularly likes micromanaging planets as their empire gets larger and Paradox is inventive enough do something fun and interesting in its place. Much how they removed the Papal Points clicking game in EU4.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!


Instead of being all blue, lasers and shields should use the map color of the Empire in question so it's clearer who is shooting/deflecting who.


EDIT: Also, Paradox, please make drat sure that I can rename every star/star system/planet/moon/asteroid that I own. That seems like a no brainer, but every now and then I find a game that doesn't let me do this as much as I want and I get irrationally angry. I don't want the loving Delta Pavonis system, it's supposed to be New Serbia!

Fintilgin fucked around with this message at Sep 28, 2015 around 22:41

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009



I want a sequel to Sengoku that isn't just a bare-bones skeleton of an alpha for CK2. Give me a proper Japanese CK2

Hot Dog Day #82
Jul 5, 2003



Soiled Meat

There is always occasional discussion of Distant Worlds whenever Stellaris is mentioned. Is that a game worth playing? I've always been interested in it, but I've always been a bit hesitant to sign up for a Matrix game since I'm particularly into their other titles.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Yes it's worth playing, but you might want to wait for a sale on it. It's unique and interesting but also has one of the shittiest GUIs in 4x history and is clunky and a mess in general. Good for a few playthroughs but it's problems will probably drive you up a wall, given enough time.

Mister Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

that's real fuckin' spooky


Fintilgin posted:

EDIT: Also, Paradox, please make drat sure that I can rename every star/star system/planet/moon/asteroid that I own. That seems like a no brainer, but every now and then I find a game that doesn't let me do this as much as I want and I get irrationally angry. I don't want the loving Delta Pavonis system, it's supposed to be New Serbia!

I agree for the most part but you chose one of the best systems as your example and if there's one you should never ever be renaming it's Delta Pavonis. You plebeian.

e; Distand Worlds is, in my opinion, the best space 4X since MoO2. It's far from perfect but drat does it scratch my itches in all the right ways. Especially when I play with the Warhams mod :orc:

Also haha, I believe the last time someone asked about DW me and Gwyrgyn Blood were the first couple to respond and said the exact same things

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

There is always occasional discussion of Distant Worlds whenever Stellaris is mentioned. Is that a game worth playing? I've always been interested in it, but I've always been a bit hesitant to sign up for a Matrix game since I'm particularly into their other titles.

It's largely impenetrable and your initial reaction is accurate.

Hot Dog Day #82
Jul 5, 2003



Soiled Meat

Oh no! Being able to automate different parts of your empire sounds like an interesting idea, but I've always thought that it is probably something that works better in theory than in practice. I've never been one for wars in my strategy games, so leaving that to the computer while I focus on expansion or the economy is right in my wheel house.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

The coolest Fuhrer there ever was


Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

There is always occasional discussion of Distant Worlds whenever Stellaris is mentioned. Is that a game worth playing? I've always been interested in it, but I've always been a bit hesitant to sign up for a Matrix game since I'm particularly into their other titles.

The biggest disappointment of distant worlds is learning how utterly meaningless all that under the hood stuff is- in reality, you have two things that matter- money, and to a lesser extent fuel(you can fix the latter with the former). All those other resources just end up changing how much things cost in money, and you can't really design or not design around a lack because the module resource costs are not particularly deliberately chosen.

The civilian ships regenerate their mining posts anyway and you can never eliminate the pirates so you basically just work to keep them off the planets(but they sometimes build up anyway because you have other things to do than stare at every planet). Distant Worlds is what happens when you throw in a bunch of systems without really putting them through the paces of actual design.

Mister Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

that's real fuckin' spooky


There's an option to stop defeated pirates from respawning? But yeah, the resources aren't handled as well as they might be, and it's more about making sure you have a source for everything than working around your shortages or whatever.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

The coolest Fuhrer there ever was


Mister Adequate posted:

There's an option to stop defeated pirates from respawning? But yeah, the resources aren't handled as well as they might be, and it's more about making sure you have a source for everything than working around your shortages or whatever.

Yeah but eventually pretty much by the time you get a bit into the game everything has a source- and if not anyway you can fix it with money. It's a system, yeah, but it's one without a very interesting design purpose.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

Oh no! Being able to automate different parts of your empire sounds like an interesting idea, but I've always thought that it is probably something that works better in theory than in practice. I've never been one for wars in my strategy games, so leaving that to the computer while I focus on expansion or the economy is right in my wheel house.

I've never tried leaving the military entirely under automation (which you can do, including the ability to let the AI handle starting/ending wars for you), but all my experience playing the game basically made it pretty clear that the military automation is generally pretty terrible, while the economy, ship design, and civilian stuff is all generally pretty decent.

The big problem is that the automation is extremely sluggish to respond to anything. It doesn't try to intercept pirates before they get to your systems reliably, for example. Fleets don't handle ships being damaged well (and the refueling is a pain as well), the automation of 'defend this area, attack this area' stuff doesn't work at all for the most part. It's rough and I think it's the part that really drags the game down the most. You just can't rely on the automation of anything military related, which means you get to micro everything.


As far as resources go, yeah most of the normal stuff is pretty pointless. There's a few things you can prioritize to make sure you can crank out ships as fast as possible though, if you're planning where to put your mining stations or colonize first. The special resources are a little better though, they give you fair significant bonuses to your empire and there are very limited sources of them. There's a decent GUI mod that color codes the resources so you can filter what's important easier.

Shark Sandwich
Sep 6, 2010

The review you had on "Shark Sandwich", which was merely a two word review, just said "Shit Sandwich".



I sunk way too many hours in V2 with NNM. Are there any other mods that are good that aren't total autistic overhauls like PDM? I remember a few that tweaked stuff like politics and whatnot were mentioned in the last thread.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007



Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:

I sunk way too many hours in V2 with NNM. Are there any other mods that are good that aren't total autistic overhauls like PDM? I remember a few that tweaked stuff like politics and whatnot were mentioned in the last thread.

You're playing V2, please don't pretend that you don't like games where autism is a key gameplay mechanic.

Shark Sandwich
Sep 6, 2010

The review you had on "Shark Sandwich", which was merely a two word review, just said "Shit Sandwich".



Hence "total autism"

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

The coolest Fuhrer there ever was


Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

I've never tried leaving the military entirely under automation (which you can do, including the ability to let the AI handle starting/ending wars for you), but all my experience playing the game basically made it pretty clear that the military automation is generally pretty terrible, while the economy, ship design, and civilian stuff is all generally pretty decent.

The big problem is that the automation is extremely sluggish to respond to anything. It doesn't try to intercept pirates before they get to your systems reliably, for example. Fleets don't handle ships being damaged well (and the refueling is a pain as well), the automation of 'defend this area, attack this area' stuff doesn't work at all for the most part. It's rough and I think it's the part that really drags the game down the most. You just can't rely on the automation of anything military related, which means you get to micro everything.


As far as resources go, yeah most of the normal stuff is pretty pointless. There's a few things you can prioritize to make sure you can crank out ships as fast as possible though, if you're planning where to put your mining stations or colonize first. The special resources are a little better though, they give you fair significant bonuses to your empire and there are very limited sources of them. There's a decent GUI mod that color codes the resources so you can filter what's important easier.

The special resources are the most interesting- yeah. The bonuses can be great, but the normal resources just end up meaningless.

And, yeah, the automation is really bad- I try to set up pirate hunting groups but it doesn't work- the pirates act weirdly anyway- instead of just harassing shipping they tend to go after planets and mining stations, which is really bizarre. It's also impossible to set ships to escort shipping anyway except as part of a military convoy.

lewtt
Apr 2, 2011



The Great Twist

uPen posted:

You're missing the Hoi4 screenshot.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Kw3ow3bHM#t=75s

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.


Galaga Galaxian posted:

I want a sequel to Sengoku that isn't just a bare-bones skeleton of an alpha for CK2. Give me a proper Japanese CK2

Just wait for like three more CK2 expansions and you got it.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Isn't there a Sengoku mod for CK2 already?

catlord
Mar 22, 2009

The art... it's growing on me. I find myself enjoying it.


The Cheshire Cat posted:

Isn't there a Sengoku mod for CK2 already?

Two, one by someone on the forums here that basically ports the map and stuff from the Sengoku demo over, and one with a big-rear end Latin title that looks somewhat more ambitious but I've never tried. I don't think either are compatible with the latest patch? Personally, I want something that covers all of East Asia.

pwnyXpress
Mar 28, 2007


Have they made any indications toward being able to import games into HOI4 from the end of EUIV? I know there's a bit of an important gap in there (Still Waiting on Victoria III), but cmon man, I just wanna take my dynasty from ~800 AD to the stars, is that too much to ask? (This also requiring a HOI4 --> Stellaris converter.)

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009



The Cheshire Cat posted:

Isn't there a Sengoku mod for CK2 already?

That'd have to be a pretty extensive mod to rewrite various things (especially events) to a more Japanese/Asian culture.

halokiller
Dec 28, 2008

Sisters Are Doin' It For Themselves


Lipstick Apathy

It's a shame Paradox doesn't want to do automation with Stellaris like in Distant Worlds. It's a neat mechanic and I haven't gone full with my empire just yet. I do disable pirates for pre-warp though because gently caress pirates and I want to build at my own pace.

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Some OP comments:

I don't think there's a NATO counter DLC in the works for HoI4. You have the option of using NATO symbols along with the units if you want them instead of our default icons, but there's no "Just counters, no models" option. Unless I've just missed

Stellaris isn't really a Moo spiritual successor, other than hopefully being a good space empire making game. Moo2 is a classic and certainly had some influence, but we're not trying to re-create it.

I guess you might be waiting for it to be released, but remember there's a big rework of the Random New World generator in progress, so CoP should be more appealing to use/buy when it's done.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


Masters of Orion wasn't a good enough game to deserve 85,000 remakes.

Autonomous Monster
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider



catlord posted:

one with a big-rear end Latin title

That's always a bad sign.

Larry Parrish posted:

Masters of Orion wasn't a good enough game to deserve 85,000 remakes.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands


Larry Parrish posted:

Masters of Orion wasn't a good enough game to deserve 85,000 remakes.

I never really understood the fascination with remaking Masters of Orion. It was a pretty good game, sure, but surely the goal should be to move BEYOND it than to try to find some way to make it again but somehow different yet better?

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

The coolest Fuhrer there ever was


Larry Parrish posted:

Masters of Orion wasn't a good enough game to deserve 85,000 remakes.

I don't understand why everyone remakes MoO2 as opposed to MoO1 which felt less bloated in a lot of ways.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

Tomn posted:

I never really understood the fascination with remaking Masters of Orion. It was a pretty good game, sure, but surely the goal should be to move BEYOND it than to try to find some way to make it again but somehow different yet better?

I think you're taking the word "remake" a little too literally. People who make Space 4x games do try to do their own thing and are usually not just aping MOO directly, it's just that calling it a "MOO-like" or a "MOO spiritual successor" or whatever is a more handy descriptor.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007



Is it too late to hire on Spike Lee to do the story mode for HoI 4?

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


gradenko_2000 posted:

I think you're taking the word "remake" a little too literally. People who make Space 4x games do try to do their own thing and are usually not just aping MOO directly, it's just that calling it a "MOO-like" or a "MOO spiritual successor" or whatever is a more handy descriptor.

Yeah except the problem is that almost every game in the genre is Masters of Orion except shittier or with some new feature they tacked on that is useless/unfun/broken

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

Larry Parrish posted:

Yeah except the problem is that almost every game in the genre is Masters of Orion except shittier or with some new feature they tacked on that is useless/unfun/broken

That's why people keep trying to remake it though: every attempt always ends up critically flawed in one fashion or another, and so the next developer down the line thinks that they're the ones that can recapture the magic, and on and on.

I mean, if you're saying people probably shouldn't keep trying anymore, or that all of these remakes try to duplicate MOO's specific vision of the Space 4x* so hard and that just damages them in the attempt, then yeah, there's a discussion to be had, but it's not difficult to see why someone would want to make the attempt.

* individual colonies in individual planets in individual stars, starpoint-to-starpoint space travel, agriculture vs industry vs research, etc.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

The coolest Fuhrer there ever was


gradenko_2000 posted:

That's why people keep trying to remake it though: every attempt always ends up critically flawed in one fashion or another, and so the next developer down the line thinks that they're the ones that can recapture the magic, and on and on.

I mean, if you're saying people probably shouldn't keep trying anymore, or that all of these remakes try to duplicate MOO's specific vision of the Space 4x* so hard and that just damages them in the attempt, then yeah, there's a discussion to be had, but it's not difficult to see why someone would want to make the attempt.

* individual colonies in individual planets in individual stars, starpoint-to-starpoint space travel, agriculture vs industry vs research, etc.

People got confused as hell by Star Ruler 2 because it really didn't fit that particular mold. Civ in space is something people understand, people come to expect, really.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

ASK ME HOW TO CUT PINEAPPLE LIKE A BADASS


Panzeh posted:

I don't understand why everyone remakes MoO2 as opposed to MoO1 which felt less bloated in a lot of ways.

The ability to put individual buildings all over your empire, instead of assigning spending priorities by slider, sounds like a great feature until it turns into micromanagement hell.

I agree MoO1 feels less bloated, and much more its own game rather than sci-fi-skinned Civilization.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010


ulmont posted:

The ability to put individual buildings all over your empire, instead of assigning spending priorities by slider, sounds like a great feature until it turns into micromanagement hell.

On the other hand, it gives the colonies character and worth. If you've turned an irradiated hellhole into a lush paradise, you've invested a lot of resources and time into a colony. So when aliens come and bomb it into dirt, that loving matters to you. By comparison I've never managed to give a poo poo when pirates blew up a mining station or aliens conquered one of my colonies in Distant Worlds. They are both so utterly irrelevant that their loss isn't really felt. the only thing that distinguishes a colony in DW is the size of its spaceport.

podcat
Jun 21, 2012



Darkrenown posted:

I don't think there's a NATO counter DLC in the works for HoI4. You have the option of using NATO symbols along with the units if you want them instead of our default icons, but there's no "Just counters, no models" option. Unless I've just missed

pretty sure that was a joke, but yeah we dont have a nato counter DLC (or do we! )

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

podcat posted:

pretty sure that was a joke, but yeah we dont have a nato counter DLC (or do we! )

You should!

I'd non-ironically buy it if they looked as good as the HOI3 counters.


You IRL after making counter DLC:

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007


Need a dlc where soldiers bodies are replaced with NATO counters so my NATO counters can do push ups.

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