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podcat
Jun 21, 2012



RabidWeasel posted:

This actually sounds really fun, I'm impressed.

confirming proxy waring is super fun in MP

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Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands



I am inordinately amused by the fact that this time around the revolutionary Greek government is based in Crete while the reactionaries are based in the mainland.

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

podcat posted:

confirming proxy waring is super fun in MP

With all these neat features, it's almost like you want to make a Cold War game. Especially with all this potential for proxy wars everywhere.

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.




HoI 4 is gonna be really good; I can feel it.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.



Part of me is concerned what the hell civil wars are going to do in an 8~ year long game, Spain and China aside. Seems like it'd be just an annoying distraction, especially looking that the way Greece was split up in the example.

The rest still looks good, tho, so we'll just see.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


Gamerofthegame posted:

Part of me is concerned what the hell civil wars are going to do in an 8~ year long game, Spain and China aside. Seems like it'd be just an annoying distraction, especially looking that the way Greece was split up in the example.

The rest still looks good, tho, so we'll just see.

Thought the game was still going to be '36 to '48, like HOI2 vanilla was?

Edit: the one thing that always strikes me about HOI4 DD's is just how goddamn good the game looks. I mean, aesthetically, it's very pleasing.

Drone fucked around with this message at Nov 20, 2015 around 16:59

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


lol you can already smell the cold war dlc from here

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Horned hellgod from another dimension and also trans


Mans posted:

lol you can already smell the cold war dlc from here

Well we always knew it would be coming since Paradox scotched EvW

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013



So any two factions within a country can trigger a civil war, then? Neutral-on-Democratic, even, if the conditions are right?

MilkmanLuke
Jul 4, 2012

I'm da prettiest, so I'm da boss.

Baus is boss.


Ofaloaf posted:

So any two factions within a country can trigger a civil war, then? Neutral-on-Democratic, even, if the conditions are right?

Pro-skub Revolutionary Republic confirmed.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.


College Slice

Is it possible to have a three-way civil war, like if the communists decide to fight the current democratic government and then the fascists also decide to fight since there's fighting going on?

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


vyelkin posted:

Is it possible to have a three-way civil war, like if the communists decide to fight the current democratic government and then the fascists also decide to fight since there's fighting going on?

Pave the way for Kaiserreich.

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

Yeah, a two-way civil war is good for countries sized like Greece, but places like USSR and USA better be able to have multiple factions rising up, if only because they have the higher chance of breaking apart due to their size.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011



vyelkin posted:

Is it possible to have a three-way civil war, like if the communists decide to fight the current democratic government and then the fascists also decide to fight since there's fighting going on?

I would guess so, since it seems to be an event that starts off the civil war, with the effect of spawning a civil war faction and giving them some territory depending on which party started off the civil war. Should be possible to make it so that if a third party has enough support that they'll split off and fight as well. Won't necessarily be in the main game, but it should possibly be easy enough to do.

MilkmanLuke
Jul 4, 2012

I'm da prettiest, so I'm da boss.

Baus is boss.


vyelkin posted:

Is it possible to have a three-way civil war, like if the communists decide to fight the current democratic government and then the fascists also decide to fight since there's fighting going on?

In the DD thread, Podcat mentioned that doesn't happen in the current iteration. I'm at work so I don't have time to track down the quote.

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle


Demiurge4 posted:


Stellaris is more of that though. From what we've seen I think it's safe to say that Paradox is making a traditional 4x with very little new and groundbreaking innovations. They are taking the Blizzard path of development where they take previously existing features and game mechanics and refining them. Stellaris could be the WoW of 4x space games. This is personally a little disappointing to me because I was hoping they'd take a very cool leap into Europa Universalis/Victoria 2 in space. When they mentioned the word POPs a lot of us got very excited but it seems so far populations are just numbers of 1 and a population can be 5 humans, 2 alien X and 3 alien Y. Resources are a simple minerals -> production with science, energy and food as additional resources. This is as others have pointed out basically just Civilization with minerals thrown in as an extra strategic resource (global).

What I personally would have liked was a Victoria based economy where planets produce a variety of goods that are used throughout your empire where distances become important for supply/demand. Developed industrial worlds could produce components and industrial goods that new colonies require for development but can't produce themselves and receive basic or refined resources in return. As a sector develops and all worlds become fairly self-sufficient the increasing populations would be what drives the economy as asteroid mines, barren worlds and gas giants provide the raw resources that keep the furnaces going to produce luxuries and drive the sectors culture. You would be able to organically develop the economies of your empire.

It's not a bad thing that Paradox is doing this because I expect that Stellaris will be very good. It's just disappointing that they seem to be playing it safe in a genre that has been stagnated for over a decade.

I know most people have a hate-on for DLC, but I actually like the Paradox method of DLC, incremental improvements building off the base game and extending its lifespan. I could picture that Paradox is focusing on making a solid game first, then over time adding on resource and economy systems to the Stellaris game to keep it interesting and ensure it isn't a buggy broken mess.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Paradox DLC isn't really like DLC, it's more like paid patches / expansions that you get most of the content for free anyway if you don't pay.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008



He also mentions that this system isn't used for China, because that conflict is too big/too complex. And tiny countries don't get it either, like Albania or Luxembourg.

Maybe a later DLC will have a civil war system adopted for the bigger contries so we can have multi-faction affairs (or in the US/USSR cases: Multi-state, member states trying to break away etc).

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

Pimpmust posted:

Maybe a later DLC will have a civil war system adopted for the bigger contries so we can have multi-faction affairs (or in the US/USSR cases: Multi-state, member states trying to break away etc).

It would also be interesting if there were cross-national rebellions that could happen across country lines. Like if a chunk of the northern US and Canada declared it was its own state and not part of either country.

It would probably be too hard to manage as a fun game mechanic, though.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Did they say how they determine which state sides with who?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


It would be cool if they had a bunch of potential break-away states in the game so that future civil wars could go along those lines. So like texas could break away, not because of "fascism" but "texan independence". It would have its own flag and such ready to go within the game. Cascadia, new england, Quebec, so many good potentials and that's just NA.

Also are the "big 3" factions hard coded in the game or can you add more? What about democratic communists opposed to the capitalist west AND the brutal dictators of the soviet union? Could you mod that in? I'd just love to see something like a North America that didn't really survive the great depression politically and having a communist civil war, but the result being something not automatically assumed to be in Russia's camp.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at Nov 20, 2015 around 21:58

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009


Factions are dynamic in this, the only set things are Britain, Germany and the USSR being faction leaders at the game start, after that it's all up in the air.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013



Baronjutter posted:

It would be cool if they had a bunch of potential break-away states in the game so that future civil wars could go along those lines. So like texas could break away, not because of "fascism" but "texan independence". It would have its own flag and such ready to go within the game. Cascadia, new england, Quebec, so many good potentials and that's just NA.
I don't know about HoI3, but HoI2 and Darkest Hour had the CSA, Texas and California as potential states. Revolters not present on the map at game start have been in the Hearts of Iron series for a while now. Tying that in to the civil war system so it's not just PROV1234 REBEL_TYPE farting around on a couple of provs would be neat, but breakaway states and such have totally been a thing.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2020
---------
Despair. Malice.
Values America can believe in.


Ofaloaf posted:

I don't know about HoI3, but HoI2 and Darkest Hour had the CSA, Texas and California as potential states. Revolters not present on the map at game start have been in the Hearts of Iron series for a while now. Tying that in to the civil war system so it's not just PROV1234 REBEL_TYPE farting around on a couple of provs would be neat, but breakaway states and such have totally been a thing.

Though usually those were not largely designed to be revolters, more smaller states to be released by some foreign power once they take over or win the war.

punched my v-card at camp
Sep 4, 2008

Broken and smokin' where the infrared deer plunge in the digital snake


Also, those smaller states could be a good way to model the aforementioned neutral-on-democratic civil war. These states could be something similar to the Pacific States in Kaiserreich, modelling a relatively stable region trying to free itself from the tirefire that is the rest of the nation.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an



Return of the goofy-rear end communist flags from V2, also cameo appearance by Markos Vafiadis. Wonder if Metaxas gets his due.

Chief Savage Man
Jul 19, 2010

i care, i'm listening, i can help you without giving any advice


Pillbug

Would it touch like the ethnic dimension of Yugoslav partisan activity or is that getting too much into a grey area? It'd probably work out very well in a V3 iteration (having a Polish, Finnish, Ukrainian, etc. faction during the Russian Empire's collapse). It's a mechanic that I can imagine seeing versions of for a while.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012

in my pope game,


vyelkin posted:

Is it possible to have a three-way civil war, like if the communists decide to fight the current democratic government and then the fascists also decide to fight since there's fighting going on?

"Rufo posted:

No. Sometimes a faction might have large political support from different ideologies (such as the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War), but a civil war always happen between two parties at a time.

he and podcat also note that the AI won't launch coups, and will probably continue not doing so except in special cases (because otherwise 'there would be no ww2'), which seems a little odd to me.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an


They confirmed in the thread that the Chinese Civil War is too complex to render with the civil war system everyone else has, so it's got some unique stuff to it.

Could it be???? China...represented...better??????

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


Funky Valentine posted:

They confirmed in the thread that the Chinese Civil War is too complex to render with the civil war system everyone else has, so it's got some unique stuff to it.

Could it be???? China...represented...better??????

Not until dlc 2 at the earliest

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


PleasingFungus posted:

he and podcat also note that the AI won't launch coups, and will probably continue not doing so except in special cases (because otherwise 'there would be no ww2'), which seems a little odd to me.

The HoI IV AI may be too smart for its own good- I think it was Podcat that said he had to apply obscene modifiers to the Japanese AI to make it think attacking the US was a winnable and good idea.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


PleasingFungus posted:

he and podcat also note that the AI won't launch coups, and will probably continue not doing so except in special cases (because otherwise 'there would be no ww2'), which seems a little odd to me.

It probably wouldn't be a good time if at '37-8 all the minors in Europe just suddenly erupted in civil wars every game.

Don Gato
Apr 28, 2013

Actually a bipedal cat.

Grimey Drawer

Or maybe it would be the best time to play as a minor



Funky Valentine posted:

They confirmed in the thread that the Chinese Civil War is too complex to render with the civil war system everyone else has, so it's got some unique stuff to it.

Could it be???? China...represented...better??????

Maybe China will actually be at war this time. Kind of hoping that something like the Jingwei regime gets in too, or at least is easy to mod in.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Horned hellgod from another dimension and also trans


Kavak posted:

The HoI IV AI may be too smart for its own good- I think it was Podcat that said he had to apply obscene modifiers to the Japanese AI to make it think attacking the US was a winnable and good idea.

Hahaha that's amazing. Just something that assesses it's own strength at like, 500% or something?

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


Mister Adequate posted:

Hahaha that's amazing. Just something that assesses it's own strength at like, 500% or something?

Just break the Japanese AI such that every time it loses a unit, it adds to their internal army strength estimate instead of subtracting from it. Voila, a perfect simulation of Japanese strategic thinking in WW2.

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Kavak posted:

The HoI IV AI may be too smart for its own good- I think it was Podcat that said he had to apply obscene modifiers to the Japanese AI to make it think attacking the US was a winnable and good idea.

After planning Pearl Harbor the AI Yamamoto goes up into his room and quaffs magical potions and practices archery with his dog.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Horned hellgod from another dimension and also trans


Dibujante posted:

Just break the Japanese AI such that every time it loses a unit, it adds to their internal army strength estimate instead of subtracting from it. Voila, a perfect simulation of Japanese strategic thinking in WW2.



Of course you'd really need more than one Japanese AI; if the navy is ascendant and in control they should have a slightly more realistic assessment of the world. The army should not. Your idea is one I like. Also count garrison and militia units as being as powerful as nukes.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an


Kavak posted:

The HoI IV AI may be too smart for its own good- I think it was Podcat that said he had to apply obscene modifiers to the Japanese AI to make it think attacking the US was a winnable and good idea.

Imperial Japan: dumber than strategy game AI

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Without bringing in some CK II mechanics, there's no way to represent the out-of-control nature of the Imperial Army. I'm kind of amazed they managed to confine themselves to assassinations and coup plots and nobody launched an armed insurrection.

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Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


Kavak posted:

Without bringing in some CK II mechanics, there's no way to represent the out-of-control nature of the Imperial Army. I'm kind of amazed they managed to confine themselves to assassinations and coup plots and nobody launched an armed insurrection.

Just make it so that the Japan AI cannot launch amphibious invasions unless the target province is out of supply.

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