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bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

I would expect it to be easier to program the ai like "is this province bordering one of mine by land or is it a valuable port? If not, demand a lend-lease deal or share of the resources"

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bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

DW is great but once you figure everything out you start to notice the game's shortcomings, mainly the AI and everything Wiz mentioned. It used to be you could also design escorts and destroyers that were almost completely unkillable due to their speed and the fact they escape at 50% shields. This got interesting because pirates use ship designs from escorts/destroyers/cruisers currently being used by empires in the game, meaning you could find yourself being attacked by pirates flying unkillable ships.

Having an empire spanning 20+ colonies is a real headache and you have to start automating or you go insane. But then try doing anything militarily through automation and you see how weak the AI is. If you want to manually invade another empire, have fun going after their 100+ colonies one by one. The best way to play IMO is to set habitable planets to rare and keep the galaxy size reasonable.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Freudian posted:

And goatse.

"What manner of behavior is that human male exhibiting in relation to his own sphincter? Fascinating."

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Honestly I hope they simplify the economy HOI4 style for Vicky 3 because I've played a lot of Vicky 2 and that poo poo still confuses the hell out of me. Not in that I don't understand it, it's just a lot of work to keep up with it when you've got so many other things going on.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Alchenar posted:

Johan was all "I want you to finish a game" and Jon was all "Dude that's not my creative process"

:vince:

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Jabor posted:

There's also the metagame aspect at play. If you fight hellwars even over what should be an easily-taken province, over the course of several games people learn to pick on other targets. If you give up provinces easily then you become everyone's first choice of target if they have an army and nothing to do with it.

There are definitely still times where it's correct to just roll over, but the nature of playing several multiplayer games with the same group of people biases things towards hurting your attacker as much as possible.

Yeah that's definitely a strategy I've used before, if you're going to lose then at least make it hurt the other guys enough to make them think twice about trying again in the future. There is a good middle ground between rolling over and dying and crippling your economy. Usually if you put up enough of a fight you can get them to peace out for 20-30% warscore.

Nobody likes to lose in games but in EU4 it can be really infuriating to lose a war in MP. You can grow strangely attached to your borders, and losing just a couple provinces can derail long term plans. But losing gracefully can lead to future opportunities that can turn out to be much more lucrative.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Wooper posted:

I was referring to a MP discord game. :thejoke:

He meant the MP discord https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3773305&pagenumber=22&perpage=40

gradenko_2000 posted:

in an MP game, what's the biggest size/power disparity you've ever seen between two players? Like, has it ever happened that someone is France and someone else is ... Ulm? Doesn't that make you a really easy target?

In a similar vein, has it ever happened that someone is, say, the UK and someone else is either an American or Asian nation? Does that make the unciv player an easy target, or does it take long enough for a Western nation to reach those places that the uncivs can put up a good fight?

In most games the biggest power disparities don't exist at the start, they come from players eating AI countries and then snowballing out of control with nobody willing or able to team up and stop them. In one game we had an absolutely monstrous Serbia with thousands of dev, stretching all the way to India and Kazakhstan, although at that point most players can get pretty swole.

Starting in the Americas is a bad idea when there are players in colonizing countries, but if you do a custom nation game and start in Panama you can dominate pretty well. Asian countries it all depends on how quickly you can expand.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

And something to allow me to automate occupying large swaths of land.

Vassals, marches, and colonial nations are amazing for this.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

ThatBasqueGuy posted:

If there isn't a cadre of goons liveposting then starting the revolt when it isn't v3 I will....uh....cut funding to infrastructure?

YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Teaser 6: The next game title rhymes with "Shmome Stew"

Victoria 3 confirmed!

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

AnoHito posted:

Victoria 3 is ruled out by them having explicitly ruled out it being Victoria 3 :v:

Hmm maybe this is actually anal attentive trolling. Iirc they ruled out Vicky 3 but not Victoria 3.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Dirk Pitt posted:

Ill be at the conference today with my wife (who works at paradox). I have on jorts, a green canvas jacket, and bright yellow watch. If anyone wants to say hello!

There's a bunch of us here wearing red Mapgoons shirts, you can't miss us.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

PDXCON was really great, though if you're not going with a group of people it could get boring since not 100% of the panels may be on things that interest you. I think 2 days was perfect, any more than that would have been a little too much. Also Stockholm is pretty great, although the weather has been perfect which is not normally the case from what I understand.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

catlord posted:

I wonder if the Magyars will be on the map, they should just be chilling in... the northern Caucasus at this time?

It would also make sense to have them named Ungari.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Yeah manufactories are 100% mandatory to build no matter where you are in the world, prioritizing on provinces that get you the most bang for the buck after you have built workshops in them. Delaying them too long can end up crippling you by the mid-late game. Of course this is a general statement and sometimes there are better uses for your money in the short term but if you play MP you'll see quickly who neglected manufactories and what the consequences of that can be.

bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jun 5, 2018

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

The gamers cry out for more tedious micromanagement, more old fashioned sliders and pops, and while you're at it please streamline everything until there's barely a game left. It's almost like it's a... Paradox.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Their eyes turn away just a few milliseconds after you glance back at them, making you start to wonder if your mind is playing tricks on you.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

quote:

Phalanx - Slower movement for armies, while heavy infantry defence is much stronger.

Hmm is movement speed also an in-combat thing or is this what it looks like and their movement speed is reduced out of combat? Because I think it's pretty funny to imagine legions of Greeks marching in tight battle formations everywhere they go. "The enemy could attack at any time, boys, now form up! We've got two miles to go until we reach Athens, so we should be there by Thursday!"

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

None of these numbers still mean anything.

I'd like some actual dev diary-esque stuff about making the game, intent behind design decisions, etc. I don't know how a list of bonuses in a game I haven't played and can't know how the bonuses work is supposed to grab my interest.

They're not bad but I see your point, seems like they're pacing themselves since there are plenty of weeks to go until release. Hopefully we can get some from other members of the team as well, what is that magnificent bastard Bjorn up to?

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Paradox please stop spying on the embarrassing number of times I have tried and failed to get a Byzantium game off the ground in EU4, ty.

Actually if you do have data on the average life span of a Byzantium player I think that would be an interesting statistic.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

They're more like really complex board games than they are realistic simulations, some concepts are pretty abstracted but that is what is going to happen when you want to make a fun grand strategy PC game. And yeah, if it seems complicated that's because it is, I think most of us are still learning new things about these games even after hundreds of hours played.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

StealthArcher posted:

Judean People's Front

No, don't be ridiculous, it's the People's Front of Judea.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Ten minor nations enter, one blob leaves.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Yes you can have multiple players in the same country, we do it all the time in MP. It works pretty well and gets to be kind of a necessity for a major country since attention economy becomes a big issue.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Reveilled posted:

I never thought I'd see the day where a publishing company:
buys up the creators of a product I enjoyed,
strips them of all their creative independence,
shuts them down as a seperate entity and merges them into the larger company,
publicly declares that their intent from now on is to license out the IP to others rather than doing in house development,

and my reaction to that would be "thank god".

Yes 100% this

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Cease to Hope posted:

even that isn't very interesting because of how passive everyone is. unless you accidentally push someone into the allies, nobody in south or central america will show much concern about the rise of brazilian fascism or the fact that you conquered all of their neighbors on a thin pretext.

In my experience they end up joining the allies pretty quickly even without the US guarantees, especially if you're really ramping up world tension by justifying war goals on Brazil as Argentina. But it isn't all that thrilling to play since South America either turns into a slog if you wait too long or it's a walk in the park if you attack early. It is however a good lesson on fighting in rough terrain, ie use overwhelming air power and naval invasions rather than grinding your armies into the jungles and mountains.

There is something nice though about bludgeoning your way through Panama up into Mexico and then invading the US.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

The US does get a focus that allows them to intervene in wars between American countries, and once they pick that they will not hesitate to do so. But if you're quick or lucky you can get most of South America conquered before you have to deal with them.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Grey Hunter posted:

For imperator, they can always do the empire in dlc. They have can stretch the timeline out as they did in CK2.

I don't think that's going to happen for a few reasons, but mostly that it's a pain in the rear end to do that and incorporate future DLC and patches into it.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Last I checked apres moi was updated minus the new naval stuff, like the naval terrain. And yeah I'll update 1984 eventually.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Groogy posted:

Is MapGoons organizing a Vicky 2 game any time soon?

No but I'm looking forward to organizing a game on that highly-anticipated Tyranny mod for Imperator.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

For an example of that, see the HOI4 supply areas compared to how HOI3 did supply. Instead of building a supply chain per unit and per province, it simplifies it to supply areas which apply to all units in that area. But then it is also possible to have units cut off within the same area, so now their supply is coming entirely from local VPs and transport planes. I'm sure these instances fall under what you described, otherwise there wouldn't be a point to supply areas.

The system works great until you end up with a front line that pushes slightly into the neighboring supply area, which happens to be at 1 infrastructure in a state you don't own and is also in another air zone. Bonus points if that air zone is so massive you can't possibly get decent air cover despite your airbase being located only a few miles away from the front.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

The difference is MEIOU's design goals are to be more simulation/less boardgame compared to vanilla. You don't have as much power to make instant changes since you have internal politics to deal with, a population that wants autonomy, etc. Vanilla EU4 is about giving players more control with fun and impactful decisions to make. They're both pretty good philosophies for what they want to be but you have to stay in your lane, a compromise means straying from your design goals and like Groogy said you could end up with something nobody likes.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Drone posted:

Or even on the Discord.

But yeah, lessons learned etc.

Was there an official Discord for the event last year as well? I feel like that actually worked fairly well this year for announcements (though I'm an insane person who activated Discord push notifications during the event for that reason)

Yeah, it was somewhat useful last year. How was it this year? The games seem a lot more interesting this year, at least.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Ooh, it looks pretty, like CK3 but Victoria.

Nice job Wiz! I'm sure your head felt like it was going to explode until you walked off the stage.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Hellioning posted:

Here is an article about Vicky 3 and here is more specific stuff from that person from Reddit.

Fuligin posted:

there is a hell of a lot of info in that reddit post, good poo poo if true

Yeah I just took my time reading through most of it, it looks like it is true, and if it isn't then whoever wrote it should get a job at PDS because it really sounds like a fantastic game (assuming everything is balanced and working as intended).

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bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

HoI4 on console would be a nightmare

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