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sorla78 posted:Seems that one of the stakeholders at defy media is Zelnickmedia. Zelnickmedia was founded by Strauss Zelnick who is also Chairman and CEO at Take-Two Interactive. Take Two shares some interesting history with Derek Smart and his trainwreck Battlecruiser 3000 AD. Maybe the older gents at SA remember that DS filed a lawsuit against Take-two. Just wondering loud here what's going to happen today  DS trying to make up.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:00
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Paladinus posted:Yes, this is what happens in 100% cases, very true. Unless you are an idiot or fear reprisal, it is true. Although now that I think about since Chris Roberts is a real life Scarface, I guess you raise a valid point.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:02
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madcow posted:I know it is hard to hear things outside of this echo chamber, wherein 'lol vaporware' is continually bandied about and has been since the game was first announced, but you have a company that already has staff/studios established, work clearly done and underway, a user base of close to 1 million users before the game is even out... it is a pretty obvious decision from a business standpoint. To re-iterate, Star Citizen was the first big open world space sim, and while they've been loving around delivering glorified tech demos, another company has already delivered on a big number of their promises in Elite: Dangerous, and there's at least one other big one coming up (hopefully soon) in No Man's Sky. IF the allegations are true, then it's a trivial, every day, thing for a potential investor to see that, and even if CIG manage to hide it, the market for their game has changed significantly since they're main rounds of funding.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:03
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madcow posted:
Most people don't want to run time consuming, expensive lawsuits even if they face real genuine discrimination. quote:Anyways, the idea that the crowd funding is going to suddenly dry up anytime soon is very unlikely, despite what the great goon collective says.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:03
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Can you really put a price on dreams? 90 million is really lowballing it and is just a drop in the bucket.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:03
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madcow posted:Anyways, the idea that the crowd funding is going to suddenly dry up anytime soon is very unlikely, despite what the great goon collective says. How much did you spend on spaceship jpegs?
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Oct 5, 2015 11:05
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madcow posted:I know it is hard to hear things outside of this echo chamber, wherein 'lol vaporware' is continually bandied about and has been since the game was first announced, but you have a company that already has staff/studios established, work clearly done and underway, a user base of close to 1 million users before the game is even out... it is a pretty obvious decision from a business standpoint. I agree that if someone experienced discrimination then the best bet is to go the legal route. However these are allegations of illegal hiring practices witnessed but not directed at people who at the time were employees. I didn't see any suggestion that older, black & hairy applicants actually knew they had been targeted. There's also the whole question of how much money is left, if you've serious about expecting a game then the lack of progress to date and allegations of misuse of funds should be of a concern. You also said "already" in reference to staff/studios, they are laying people off, they already peaked with, one studio rumoured to be downsizing, it's nearly 2016 and the game should have been out in 2014, you should have just said "early days". As for the crowdfunding drying up, it depends if they release multi-crew or FPS, if they don't then next year is going to be a real tough sell, assuming they make it that far.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:08
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Calling it, this whole thing will end with Christ roberts writing a long rambling blog post about how sjws destroyed star citizen and how if everyone just left him alone he would have totally made the greatest game in the history of the universe. The actual game will either be released in a really buggy form with maybe 10% of promised features or bought out by another developer who sees a quick cash grab if the game is pushed out under semi-competent management. The very people whom he scammed the most will 100% agree with him and pledge to donate however much money he needs to make a new game and the cycle continue again with croberts possibly getting another mansion out of it.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:15
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Someone over on /vg/ posted this regarding refunds: 
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Oct 5, 2015 11:16
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Refund request received and responded to by CIG, Chris Robert's response listed as one of the reasons for requesting a refund.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:18
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Typo posted:Calling it, this whole thing will end with Christ roberts writing a long rambling blog post about how sjws destroyed star citizen and how if everyone just left him alone he would have totally made the greatest game in the history of the universe. The actual game will either be released in a really buggy form with maybe 10% of promised features or bought out by another developer who sees a quick cash grab if the game is pushed out under semi-competent management. The very people whom he scammed the most will 100% agree with him and pledge to donate however much money he needs to make a new game and the cycle continue again with croberts possibly getting another mansion out of it. Hey look just because his cult borrows literally everything from sjws he's not allowed to blame them after trying to play the outrage game with his wife as his shield.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:23
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madcow posted:Unless you are an idiot or fear reprisal, it is true. Do you actually know of any reasonable legal avenues available in this type of situation? An ex employee in the games industry who witnessed illegal hiring practices but has no real documented proof they happened as it was just some shady poo poo the boss said at the time. You should also factor in that they don't want to be black listed. The above doesn't make the allegations true, but I'm interested in that situation what other options there actually are. Go to HR? Apparently that was tried but HR reports to the boss. Is there anything else?
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Oct 5, 2015 11:23
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Innerguard posted:Refund request received and responded to by CIG, Chris Robert's response listed as one of the reasons for requesting a refund. I'd definitely try trading first, there's still people out there buying and you can get a bit on top.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:25
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madcow posted:Unless you are an idiot or fear reprisal, it is true. lol if you think game devs have any sort of human rights these days.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:26
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Mercury_Storm posted:Why did you guys buy hundred dollar fake ships? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy Yeah, this part I don't really get, why do these guys have 90 million dollars from people buying fake spaceships in a unreleased game that, assuming it would ever be released, would be the biggest pay to win game ever, is the urge to pay to win with the biggest imaginary spaceship THAT big a draw? Or is it like someone said earlier where these people just want a new virtual life?
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Oct 5, 2015 11:26
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madcow posted:Unless you are an idiot or fear reprisal, it is true. Hello Madcow, I'm here to talk to you about careers. You see, even before the age of the internet what you did in the work force was typically kept on record when applying for your next job, the idea of being a pain in the rear end but gosh darn it he's so drat good he gets away with it, is a myth perpetuated by fiction. In real life if you're not in a position of power and a theoretical rear end to work with, you just get the boot. As it turns out, having a lawsuit with your company may be a boon in airing their practices to the world and earning vindication, but it also happens to be loving awful for the rest of your career. After all, employers will look at you with a black mark. They'll be very wary of hiring you in the future, because if you are hired in the future you may wind up suing them. So an employee has to honestly way that scenario "Am I willing to give up all potential work in this field, to deal with this problem?"
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Oct 5, 2015 11:32
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:
It's this because I bothered to go around and ask schmucks Seriously, they'll give you their manifestos and they always start with something along the lines of "I have always been fascinated by space", "I have always wanted to go to space", etc. If they can have a 100% space sim that will even replicate changing the lightbulbs in their spaceship they will loving take it because of how real it is. As long as they can leave their lives behind and sit at a screen that emulates a space simulation they will be happy. Also games like mass Effect are no good because they're over after 60 hours leaving them with a vast feeling of emptiness. loving Consoles ruining space games.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:36
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Typo posted:Calling it, this whole thing will end with Christ roberts writing a long rambling blog post about how sjws destroyed star citizen and how if everyone just left him alone he would have totally made the greatest game in the history of the universe. The actual game will either be released in a really buggy form with maybe 10% of promised features or bought out by another developer who sees a quick cash grab if the game is pushed out under semi-competent management. The very people whom he scammed the most will 100% agree with him and pledge to donate however much money he needs to make a new game and the cycle continue again with croberts possibly getting another mansion out of it. So this is the thing: I think the nature of crowdfunding makes Star Citizen unsaveable. When a developer gets bailed out because they failed to deliver on budget it's either the publisher taking a hit or someone new coming in and telling the initial investors to take a deal worth one dollar in ten and be thankful for that. You can't do that with a game that's been funded on the basis of $90m in preorders for obvious reasons. Moreover the game having been funded on the basis of preorders, it's extremely unclear how much future revenue there is (note that in Frontier's annual statement they declined to make a profit prediction because there's no history to go on, and that's a game that's been selling solidly). And you can't just crap something out. Gearbox did that with Duke Nukem Forever. Was anyone grateful for that? Did anyone care that it literally wouldn't exist without Gearbox rescuing the project? No. It's just a reputation lose-lose.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:40
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Man that Star Citizen Subreddit is a complete circlejerk: Buy in now, instead of at this point just waiting a couple of years and seeing if anything gets released with absolutely no downside whatsoever.  Yes, I'm sure more questions wont be raised if all they turn up with is more images of ships, and a shiny new ship (image) you can throw your cash at. Tindahbawx fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 11:41
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madcow posted:All this bullshit drama going on, no one cares outside a little contingent of superfans and their detractors. Any would-be investor would look at that article the Escapist published (assuming it is even still there come later this week) and recognize it for what it is, unsubstantiated tabloid level garbage. In that scenario I can see the studios possibly living on, and I can see a Star Citizen being made, it's just not going to be the Star Citizen that they're currently selling.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:41
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As a matter of fact, I know that some serious investors are reading this thread as we speak. CIG is hosed left and right.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:45
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AP posted:There's also the whole question of how much money is left, if you've serious about expecting a game then the lack of progress to date and allegations of misuse of funds should be of a concern. The game didn't start primary development until early 2013, the kickstarter was October of 2012, how are they going to complete a game with the scope they are supposedly making within a couple years? Did you know vanilla WoW took seven years to develop and you are saying SC should have been done within a couple years? The delays and what not, that is just a fact of game development, you just never hear about it with other games unless it is happening close to release. As for the rest, it is all just rumors from ONE article with dubious sources. As for the crowd funding drying up, yes, I agree if they don't get something out this year, wether it be the FPS, mult-crew, or SQ42, then it is going to be a tough sell. But if you pay attention to any of the weekly updates, it is pretty obvious they are going to get something out this year. You mean like kind of the same way that getting outed as the source of a disparaging article about your former employer would hamper your career? At least with a lawsuit, you have some potential to get monetary compensation. AP posted:Do you actually know of any reasonable legal avenues available in this type of situation? An ex employee in the games industry who witnessed illegal hiring practices but has no real documented proof they happened as it was just some shady poo poo the boss said at the time. You should also factor in that they don't want to be black listed. If you are the only one to witness such an act and you have no documentation, then you are pretty much screwed. But if the Escapist article is to be believed, there was more than one witness. madcow fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 11:46
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madcow posted:All this bullshit drama going on, no one cares outside a little contingent of superfans and their detractors. Any would-be investor would look at that article the Escapist published (assuming it is even still there come later this week) and recognize it for what it is, unsubstantiated tabloid level garbage. Any would-be investor (real investors I mean, people who do research into investments and spend money based on risk/reward for a living) would already have been looking at SC, the original premise, the vast scope creep, the absence of progress and the average success of games like this and deciding to stay the hell away. So sure, the escapist article probably isn't going to scare away any of the investors since there are none, I'll give you that. The issue is that superfans and detractors are in danger of becoming the only two categories of people who give a poo poo about Star Citizen, and the escapist article is a big driving force behind that. No prize for guessing which category your average pledge-and-forget backer is more likely to end up in.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:54
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What are they going to do for a whole week at the convention? Is there a program? Is it the same thing each day, giving people opportunity to visit around their schedule? Related, are there any other conventions that go for a week?
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Oct 5, 2015 11:55
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madcow posted:The game didn't start primary development until early 2013, the kickstarter was October of 2012, how are they going to complete a game with the scope they are supposedly making within a couple years? Did you know vanilla WoW took seven years to develop and you are saying SC should have been done within a couple years? The delays and what not, that is just a fact of game development, you just never hear about it with other games unless it is happening close to release.  e: Also, WoW took four and a half years to develop, according to two seconds of Google, not seven. Kazy fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 11:56
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Paladinus posted:As a matter of fact, I know that some serious investors are reading this thread as we speak. CIG is hosed left and right. You sound like one of those millionaires on the Yahoo Finance Message Boards.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:57
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What are Galactic Credits?
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Oct 5, 2015 11:57
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SelenicMartian posted:What are Galactic Credits? It's like galaxy, but with bitcoin
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Oct 5, 2015 11:58
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Alchenar posted:So this is the thing: I think the nature of crowdfunding makes Star Citizen unsaveable. When a developer gets bailed out because they failed to deliver on budget it's either the publisher taking a hit or someone new coming in and telling the initial investors to take a deal worth one dollar in ten and be thankful for that. You can't do that with a game that's been funded on the basis of $90m in preorders for obvious reasons. Moreover the game having been funded on the basis of preorders, it's extremely unclear how much future revenue there is (note that in Frontier's annual statement they declined to make a profit prediction because there's no history to go on, and that's a game that's been selling solidly). No one with half a brain will touch this poo poo. Either CIG finishes this game, or no one will. e:because I quoted the wrong person like a tard, and I'm actually agreeing with you. I need some more coffee. Nice to see after my lie in everything is still on fire though! tooterfish fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 11:59
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madcow posted:You mean like kind of the same way that getting outed as the source of a disparaging article about your former employer would hamper your career? At least with a lawsuit, you have some potential to get monetary compensation. That's why it's the job of the news is to protect anonymous sources In fact it's written into the loving law to stop the police and even the courts from revealing an anonymous source. https://www.article19.org/pages/en/protection-of-sources-more.html Even if the escapist were to LOSE the case they would not be compelled to reveal their sources. EDIT: Even the mentality, for one, taking down a corrupt employer from the shadows with your name not revealed gives you confidence, if someone is abusing their power or running a scam you can take action with no danger to your own name. It also gives companies second thoughts about being immoral dick bags. To put it into video game terms, Anonymous sources are like the Good option in crappy morality system video games. harder, but ultimately better for you. Lawsuits are the evil option. Quickly benefiting you, but hurting in the long run. Onmi fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 12:00
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madcow posted:The game didn't start primary development until early 2013, the kickstarter was October of 2012, how are they going to complete a game with the scope they are supposedly making within a couple years? Did you know vanilla WoW took seven years to develop and you are saying SC should have been done within a couple years? The delays and what not, that is just a fact of game development, you just never hear about it with other games unless it is happening close to release. Chris Roberts 19th October 2012 quote:You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years? You're pretty far gone, how much are you in for? Note, unlike others in the thread I'm not asking to make fun of you I just hope you don't get too badly burned. Also, that's just one interview, the stretch goals were originally meant to speed stuff up and ensure the game was delivered on time or earlier. The story changes and is believed because the backers have been trained not to think about the process logically. It's very concerning, also hilarious, but sad too.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:03
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The whole "visionary game director" is really a fascinating byproduct of the 80's when publishers in the wake of the big crash were reluctant to take on games. So many programmers formed independent companies, such as Origin, Maxis and Sierra which worked off the boom in the emerging home PC market. These tiny companies become insanely profitable for people like John Romero, Chris Roberts and Richard Garriott who start their careers developing in this relatively free environment as the cash rolled in with little accountability to stockholders or boards. But as time goes on many get acquired by bigger fish or some, like 3D Realms or iD, survive on residuals or licencing to pump life into their pet projects by turning from a games developer into a games publisher before they too get taken over by a bigger firm who want to know why the accounts are a lively red. It's created this fascinating legacy where we pine for "the good old days" and when we do get given them via Kickstarter miracles or someone taking a chance, we often discover these devs weren't as good owing, to twenty years in the wilderness or simply being completely out of touch with how the development world has shifted. Or you have Phil Fish who realizes the hard way that being the next John Romero is just going to make you everyone's bitch. No wonder that today you barely hear about any developer or creative producer become well known, it's regarded as a liability to have an ego take over. Ken Levine is one example. BioShock infinite frayed quite a few nerves that no one really wanted to do more with him at the helm and he folded. Japan is one exception as a director acts as a visionary overseer across the project so it's not surprising you end up with people like Kojima who has a strong enough reputation that he becomes such an expensive juggernaut and has to be forced out regardless if the game is a hit. Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Anyone able to sum up whats happened up until now?  of Digital Anvil and residuals from Origin Systems (Wing Commander Arena) may continue to line his coffers, no doubt being blacklisted from Hollywood meant he needed to get back into his game. Literally.Putting together a bunch of developers he creates a pitch for the next Wing Commander to EA, who are interested but are well aware of what happened with Freelancer and with the fresh corpse of Duke Nukem Forever a timely omen, they wisely turn down his ideas to take direct control. So the resources are glossily repackaged into "Squadron 42" a spiritual successor to WC. With a helping hand of $500,000 thanks to this Kickstarter thing that's helping all of his old friend's from the 90's. That's fine and dandy, there's a bit of a resurgence for the sim genre these days. $6 million later and we are off. But this glint of cash spawns Star Citizen, the game that promises to give you the stars! On top of that it promises a publisher free development, thanks to you our humble backers of millions! (the cheering readers of wcnews.com who decide they don't need money anymore). This wunderkind of a game was to be made with CryEngine 3, everyone's favorite computer melting engine. Somehow a large persistent world is to be pushed into a game that barely supports 32 people in a death match. Also to note: CryTek recently has had it's own restructuring nightmares owing to company mismanagement. Why do you think they were able to hire all of the Cry devs? Brought on board to speed things up was all sorts of purchases of AI and using partners like The Imaginarium Studios, Andy Serkis's own mocap studio. I can't imagine the dozen or so acquisitions have been remotely cheap at all! Two years later and several key dates have whizzed past and all there is to show is a literally a landing pad with some rocks to fly around and shoot people via a flight engine that will do a better job at killing you, a garage to show your mates the sick rides you've blown $35,000 (If they're sill not on paper) on and a pub to dance away your virtual sorrows in. So its not surprising that after this time people start doing something reasonable and ask "where did my cash go?" Namely the original backers who seem to have been largely abandoned along with the original Kickstarter page. Then the stories start to come in. Things are not smooth sailing in 'the verse. People start noticing ex-CIG employees, an entire sub-studio closes, word of "restructuring" is whispered on the wind. While you can't do much about rumors, you can do less about Derek Smart, of all people. turning up on your doorstep to lay down some of the greatest ironic smackdowns I've ever seen. When your angry letters don't shut him up things go from bad to worse when your tidy PR lawn gets trampled on by the neighbor's dog. Funny how it becomes the talk of the town. Even if you did shut up the street and barricade yourself behind some new fences and shoot Ringo the third on sight, the neighbors will still talk. In a reasonable world this is an easy fix "keep Ringo in your yard and we'll be fine, let the lawyers work it out" but no, Roberts erupts with a massive angry letter which claims a conspiracy between the press and Derek Smart to bring down his space empire! This also includes defaming madam-Chairwoman by alluding to some improper hiring practices which has "destroyed the reputation" of a no-name actress who hasn't gotten a break since she was 14 and doesn't even have a SAG accreditation. Tommy Wiseau managed to do this from starring in commercials he shot for his own clothes store! So now there's appearing to be a witch hunt over why people are refunding along with an attempt to force The Escapist to hand over employee details in the hopes they could possibly sue the former employees for damages. In the past someone would likely see the IP value and swoop in to acquire, retool and get something out. You've seen this many times when you load up a game and there's five different studios in the splash screen, it's been a hot potato handed across development studios till it was done. I can't see this happening at all with this game as it's such a mess. It's Monday soon 
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Oct 5, 2015 12:05
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madcow posted:If you are the only one to witness such an act and you have no documentation, then you are pretty much screwed. But if the Escapist article is to be believed, there was more than one witness. So assuming the allegations are true, you now agreed that the ex employees took the best option available to them, now go back and look at your earlier post. madcow posted:But if you pay attention to any of the weekly updates, it is pretty obvious they are going to get something out this year. By "something", you meant multi-crew or FPS don't you, you still expect them this year? Try to remember that for later. AP fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 12:06
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tooterfish posted:It's not just that, any investor immediately puts themselves on the hook to make all those $1000 spaceships that people paid for. That $90 million isn't revenue, it's loving debt, because the products haven't been delivered yet. There are already investors, One of them seems to be a goon in this very thread (who might suffer from some investor remorse). Having no credebtials whatsoever I doubt that Backers have any protection whatsoever if a VC has to bailout SC - the first thing out of the window are the empty promises.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:06
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Obama please bail out the digital spaceship JPEG industry.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGqGedJvkIQ Oh look, their most recent Youtube video from a couple of days ago has a token black man dragged on to show how diverse and totally not racist they really are.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:08
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Actually I believe there is plenty of money to be made from SC in case of a bailout. Cut the scope drastically, release it on consoles also, list it on Steam and buy pretty add-videos on nation wide channels and you get your average Joe's 60$. Sure they might not have played a space-sim before but make the videos cool and they will buy it (especially in case of a 10% sale coming bundled with unique electro skin hull decals or whatever the gently caress those are). New management can probably change the monetization model also somewhat.. away from the current dream.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:09
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sorla78 posted:There are already investors, One of them seems to be a goon in this very thread (who might suffer from some investor remorse). Having no credebtials whatsoever I doubt that Backers have any protection whatsoever if a VC has to bailout SC - the first thing out of the window are the empty promises. I don't think it'd be a good "fresh start" if the new owners said "yeah, we aren't liable for any of this poo poo you paid for" to their so far only customer base.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:11
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Just make a rogue squadron or X-Wing type game out of it. There's a nitche of that since EA is just going to give the real star wars game a poo poo pass and call it a day.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:16
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AP posted:You're pretty far gone, how much are you in for? Note, unlike others in the thread I'm not asking to make fun of you I just hope you don't get too badly burned. I already commented earlier in the thread that I gave up my first born in lieu of monetary payment, you must have missed it. If the game goes up in a puff of smoke, like you seem to believe it will, then... I will be ok with that, I was not cut out to be a dad anyways, obviously.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:18
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