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I wonder if the editor at the Escapist is experiencing some of the same pangs of regret that some of the backers obviously did after they read that article. This keeps getting better and better. 
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Oct 4, 2015 07:55
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Someone posted earlier laughing about how they got asked if they were requesting a refund because of the Escapist article. They don't do that just to satisfy their own curiosity, they do that, at least in part, so they can document economic damages to the company as a direct result of the article. Also people are forgetting the allegations of racism and embezzlement in the article, which obviously can have a materially adverse effect on business, not just in terms of refunds, but in terms of business partnerships, etc.
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Oct 4, 2015 08:24
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CodfishCartographer posted:As much as I hope to god this train wreck keeps on crashing, isn't it likely the escapist will just avoid spending the money to take this to court? I mean they either a: spend a lot of money on legal poo poo, or b: take down a news article and apologize to whiney nerds. This is not going to court, any reasonable person can tell you that much. Win or lose, it would cost the Escapist's parent company more money in legal expenses than both the editor and author of that article make in a year.
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Oct 4, 2015 10:03
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Libel laws are different in the U.K., which is one of the two countries CIG threatened litigation in. In the U.K., the burden of proof is on the author/journalist.
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Oct 4, 2015 10:15
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Zeike posted:Smart is taking on all comers This was a pretty entertaining read. For those of you getting tired of traveling in circles, go watch Derek Smart get poo poo on: https://twitter.com/TheKevinDent Edit: Boo, apparently DS deleted his tweets, guess he knows he got rekt. Here is some of what you missed: http://imgur.com/Yg9id3Q madcow fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 03:35
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Wafflz posted:The only way to earn worthless internet points is go with the crowd, so the entire concept of reddit encourages herd mentality, You don't even need fake internet points to encourage that behavior, just take a look at this thread.
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Oct 5, 2015 05:17
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Agrajag posted:how much have you given to crobizzle? He accepted my first born child in lieu of monetary payment. Promised to name a star system in-game after him. I consider it a fair trade, am I wrong?
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Oct 5, 2015 05:37
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Potato Salad posted:... Superficially, this all seems incredibly elementary, but I can see how you can coast through life and not pick up social maturity.... Ignoring the many people that have given money to the project for a moment. Does wishing for something that would inevitably lead to, among other things, 200+ people losing their jobs and to crowdfunding for independent game devs to dry up overnight, exhibit "social maturity"? It seems to me, at least intuitively that this is not the case. Perhaps you can enlighten me since this is all "incredibly elementary" to you. I don't agree with some of the things CIG does, but I certainly don't hope they will fail. The pain from the fallout wouldn't just be limited to people with a fondness for collecting flying jpegs.
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Oct 5, 2015 07:18
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Prop Wash posted:You could probably make the argument that the spectacular failure of Star Citizen would be a net positive for people who want easy access to more good games.. I would be interested to see how that would argument would work because the way I see it, it would be a net negative since it would just lead to more formulaic, generic CoD and WoW-lite crap. More 'safe money' game design and less risk and innovation. Also this idea that Star Citizen is somehow sucking up all the money that would otherwise go to other "good" games is just "too laughable to even really address". quote:...specifically the idea that promising new features is more profitable than actually producing features. Promising new features doesn't get you more profit if you end up spending that money on trying to develop said features. The only way it would be more profitable is if you just ran off with all the money right after the funding ending or just delivered the final product without them, which would be patently obvious to all those involved.
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Oct 5, 2015 08:07
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Smoothrich posted:Any chance Chris Roberts ends up in jail for fraud and embezzlement? It is more likely that another goon is exposed as a pedophile of some kind or another. Sorry to disappoint you, but there is a reason CR's long time friend and business partner is an attorney and co-founder of the company.
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Oct 5, 2015 08:14
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Angela Christine posted:It does if you keep drawing a salary every month. I bet you would make more money if you deliver an entertaining game with a multi-year lifespan. Prop Wash posted:Sorry I know you posted like three paragraphs but I stopped listening when you started whining about cod and wow, two games which I don't play but were both massive advances within their respective genres. Star Citizen itself is a "spiritual successor" to a series of average space games, so it's just as formulaic as either of those two games were. But even the invocation of wow and cod can't help your complete lack of explanation about how the failure of a bloated, ideas-heavy but as of yet nonexistent game would lead to more formulaic games. It simply does not follow. If anything, a fraction of the money poured into this game could have been used to fund many smaller, better games. You mean 4 sentences? Sorry, I didn't mean to strain your mental capacity. Also, I wasn't speaking to the initial release of WoW and CoD, if you didn't fail at reading comprehension, you might have caught on to that. I was speaking about the annual releases that have followed since release of CoD Modern Warfare like clockwork and all the MMORPGS that have come out since WoW debuted that are essentially a poor imitation of WoW with a different skin. Truga posted:I just thought I'd ask here, because if I ask this on the brown sea I'll probably be banned for inciting fear and loathing: If the crowd funding were to dry up, they would just go seek out private investors and additional captial from other sources. With nearly a million "Star Citizens", if the number on their website is to be believed, they have already shown a market demand. madcow fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 08:39
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Trapezium Dave posted:If the funding dries up it's because the market demand has dried up. Those million Star Citizens have already paid and want their $90 million game finished. It's a terrible investment. So... the total number of copies a game sells is more or less limited to the number a publisher sells prior to a game's release via pre-orders? In any event, there are people with money that would disagree with you.
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Oct 5, 2015 08:53
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Trapezium Dave posted:What I mean is, for the kinds of investors with serious money in this hypothetical scenario, what benefit does buying into Star Citizen give instead of starting a complete new game free of debt, drama and expectations. I know it is hard to hear things outside of this echo chamber, wherein 'lol vaporware' is continually bandied about and has been since the game was first announced, but you have a company that already has staff/studios established, work clearly done and underway, a user base of close to 1 million users before the game is even out... it is a pretty obvious decision from a business standpoint. All this bullshit drama going on, no one cares outside a little contingent of superfans and their detractors. Any would-be investor would look at that article the Escapist published (assuming it is even still there come later this week) and recognize it for what it is, unsubstantiated tabloid level garbage. You know what people really do if they experience discrimination in the workplace? They get a lawyer and/or file a complaint with the EEOC, among other things. They don't run to some glorified gaming blog, using an inexperienced contract writer, and hope to stick it to their former employer with bad publicity. Anyways, the idea that the crowd funding is going to suddenly dry up anytime soon is very unlikely, despite what the great goon collective says.
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Oct 5, 2015 10:52
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Paladinus posted:Yes, this is what happens in 100% cases, very true. Unless you are an idiot or fear reprisal, it is true. Although now that I think about since Chris Roberts is a real life Scarface, I guess you raise a valid point.
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Oct 5, 2015 11:02
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AP posted:There's also the whole question of how much money is left, if you've serious about expecting a game then the lack of progress to date and allegations of misuse of funds should be of a concern. The game didn't start primary development until early 2013, the kickstarter was October of 2012, how are they going to complete a game with the scope they are supposedly making within a couple years? Did you know vanilla WoW took seven years to develop and you are saying SC should have been done within a couple years? The delays and what not, that is just a fact of game development, you just never hear about it with other games unless it is happening close to release. As for the rest, it is all just rumors from ONE article with dubious sources. As for the crowd funding drying up, yes, I agree if they don't get something out this year, wether it be the FPS, mult-crew, or SQ42, then it is going to be a tough sell. But if you pay attention to any of the weekly updates, it is pretty obvious they are going to get something out this year. You mean like kind of the same way that getting outed as the source of a disparaging article about your former employer would hamper your career? At least with a lawsuit, you have some potential to get monetary compensation. AP posted:Do you actually know of any reasonable legal avenues available in this type of situation? An ex employee in the games industry who witnessed illegal hiring practices but has no real documented proof they happened as it was just some shady poo poo the boss said at the time. You should also factor in that they don't want to be black listed. If you are the only one to witness such an act and you have no documentation, then you are pretty much screwed. But if the Escapist article is to be believed, there was more than one witness. madcow fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 11:46
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AP posted:You're pretty far gone, how much are you in for? Note, unlike others in the thread I'm not asking to make fun of you I just hope you don't get too badly burned. I already commented earlier in the thread that I gave up my first born in lieu of monetary payment, you must have missed it. If the game goes up in a puff of smoke, like you seem to believe it will, then... I will be ok with that, I was not cut out to be a dad anyways, obviously.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:18
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Hey Mr. Smart, when you are done with your crusade against CR and Star Citizen, can we expect great things from your own catalog of games or do you have something even better in the works? http://store.steampowered.com/search/?developer=3000AD
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Oct 7, 2015 04:59
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brakanjan posted:What other gaming studio/company would benefit from CIG going under? Not to bail them out to save the day but to grab all the software assets and design with such a cult fan base. Could everything that has been created up to now actually be used or would it actually cost more in the long run. I have no idea how these things work I am just curious if anyother corporation are watching these events with glee , waiting patiently to pick up a bargain? It should be telling to you that none of the other mainstream gaming related news sites have even touched this story as of yet. I wonder why that is?
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Oct 8, 2015 06:53
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SquirrelGrip posted:because there is no game to report on would be my guess Yes, a $90 mil+ crowdfunded game dev going tits up would be the last thing anyone would want to hear about.
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Oct 8, 2015 06:58
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TetsuoTW posted:it's because a) even to games journalologists star citizen's a loving joke, and b) the vast majority of people, even the vast majority of gamers, couldn't give a whistling fart about star citizen. Yes, I am sure this is it. Thank you for enlightening me.
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Oct 8, 2015 07:42
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Bootcha posted:This, but I don't like the idea of being fleeced either. It is amazing to me that you would take anything posted on SA seriously, as it pertains to real life investments.
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Oct 8, 2015 19:58
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Have you gotten your refund yet? If not, what is stopping you?
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Oct 9, 2015 04:21
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Kimsemus posted:I'd still like to know what "multiple" violations beer committed and where. Oh... I think you of all people know that having actual evidence of transgressions isn't so important when kicking/banning people.
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Oct 9, 2015 04:42
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It is interesting to watch how many goons deride people who back Star Citizen as some kind of lemmings and yet accept the words that come out of Derek Smart's mouth and and a handful "anonymous sources", who may or may not have been fired, as some kind of gospel truth.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:14
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Variable 5 posted:Yes, because those sources have been pretty drat accurate thus far. Yeah? Which ones? I must have missed them.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:23
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Variable 5 posted:All the firings that have been predicted and come to pass aren't enough? All what firings? I only know of two so far. Otherwise just a bunch of unsubstantiated claims in regards to unrelated issues. I have also seen some claims that have proven outright false (e.g. 16 core supercomputer). I still have yet to see any actual evidence of embezzlement or discrimination. I have yet to see any evidence of CIG going under and all the evidence I have seen thus far points to quite the opposite.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:41
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thatguy posted:That's because you're deluded. Yes, you have shown me the error in my ways, thank you. I now see the light.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:46
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GaussianCopula posted:To make sure no one outside the "circle of trust" can leak information regarding amount of refund requests. They already stated in an interview a couple days ago or so, you know the same one that said they signed a 5 year lease for an office in Frankfurt that the refund requests were around 1300 at that time.
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Oct 9, 2015 08:12
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:I can't believe that you're blindly believing something in the media, what a loving sheep. I read that four of the five offices are really fronts meant to help CR launder the backer money and use it to pay for more mansions, fancy cars, and exotic vacations. Edit: Real answer is that they are hiring people from all over the world and the backer money they get comes from more than one country. These things, when combine with tax incentives provided by local governments, often mean it makes more sense financially to have multiple offices rather than just try to round up everyone in one location. madcow fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 08:30
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Romes128 posted:They wouldn't need to launder it since it was obtained legally. I think the article mentioned something about making it harder for authorities to track the money and prosecute them for fraud. 
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Oct 9, 2015 08:40
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AP posted:At this point if you've still on board the hype train, like madcow, then either you've a very trusting person (which I'd see as a positive human trait) or you've at least a tiny bit mental in which case you've being taken advantage of. Or I am not a gullible cynic and have more experience with real investigative journalism than you? If there had been or ends up being some legitimate evidence presented as to bad happenings in CIG, like say 40% of the company getting axed within a two week (which I have experienced irl) or a verifiable audio/video clip/document that contained some racist rantings or mentions of misappropriations of funds/fraudulent activity, I might be more inclined to hop on the hate wagon and get a refund. But so far, I have seen none of that. I have just seen one shoddily written "article" with poo poo sources, likely fabrications, and bunch of rantings and empty promise from Derek Smart, a known charlatan, one of which was to release a name at 4am EST, two days ago, to help lend some credence to his claims. Yeah, he never did that, just like he never had two PhDs, never had a good game, and will never have a successful lawsuit against CIG. I knew pretty much right after the kickstarter ended and CR kept adding more and more strech goals that there was no way in hell that SC was going to meet its original deadline, just call it a hunch. So, release dates being pushed back? Yeah, I don't care, I have seen it countless times with other games with much smaller scopes and scales. I can watch a AtV episode or what not every now and see what they are doing or aren't doing. People leaving or being fired? Welcome to running a business, it doesn't always work out for a variety of reasons, personality conflicts are one of them, and if two people really were fired for releasing information to DS, then they deserved it. For being idiots and violating an NDA, which you can be pretty much certain CIG has. When CIG starts to layoff significant portions of the staff and starts closing down studios that is when I will start to worry. If the game development starts to bleed into late 2016 and they still haven't released anything significant, say like the first episode of SQ42, which I suspect will come out sooner than that, then I will start thinking about getting my money back/filing a chargeback. And lets say, for the sake of argument, CIG goes under and I don't get my money back. Oh well, I have spent more on alcohol and women in my lifetime, so losing out on the pittance I gave CIG really doesn't matter to me.
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Oct 9, 2015 09:44
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Romes128 posted:Lolllll I saw it in a vision, out in the desert, after I ate some peyote.
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Oct 9, 2015 10:00
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Tarranon posted:same, fellow goon...this life has not been easy on us, and many are the greenbacks we've parted ways with for the ephemeral comforts of an oaken barrel's golden sap, or the honey that rests 'twixt a woman's thighs Whats the matter? Am I interrupting your circlejerk? Romes128 posted:How much are you in for? The astronomical sum of.... $75. I never commented as to the quality the of alcohol and women. LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:I know you're an expert on investigative journalism, but you still haven't shared your opinion on multisite project workflows and why it's a good idea for a single long term project and I am truly dying to hear why the 4-5 offices thing is a good idea I would create an illustration for you, but I am a terrible artist and it's time for me to move on. Sorry friend. 
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Oct 9, 2015 10:06
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AP posted:Hey, it's good news that you're only in for a pittance. I feel bad for the poor fuckers in for thousands and at this stage of game there's a good chance this hasn't been their first bad life choice so I wonder how many of those thousands are stacked on credit cards. Still, at least you're going to be ok whatever happens, so I guess there's that. Hey, what is 90 million divided by 1 million? Sorry, I am bad at math, but I think that will give you a rough average of the typically pledge amount. It won't be terribly accurate, but it will at least show you that the number of people who are in it for thousands constitute a very small minority and are probably consisting mostly of goons. Tarranon posted:in a thread full of shitters, yer shittest, mate Hey, I consider this an achievement. Thanks, mate. madcow fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 10:18
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Kimsemus posted:I got my refund. It was actually quite easy, and I just transferred my stuff to another account that I couldn't get a refund value for (namely stuff I had traded on the grey market) During the process I inquired about the ToS around refunds, and why they were closing accounts along with refunding pledge money, and this was the response: Kimsemus posted:This information and how to get on board should be in the OP! I'm still waiting on my refund. Which is it? You're confusing me...
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Oct 13, 2015 20:14
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Iron Tusk posted:For whatever reason Hamill appears to be pretty enthusiastic on Twitter about being in SQ 42. He must be part of the con and/or an honorary member of the Swedish Mafia.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:02
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Essential posted:Hey guys, I'm merely an observer to this whole debacle, but I wanted to point out something I saw that I haven't seen here yet. My apologies if it's already been posted (this thread is moving fast): He could have just pocketed the extra money and delivered on the original $6 million "vision" rather than expanding the scope and adding extra features.
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Oct 14, 2015 02:00
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:lol if you think he couldve made the game with their original KS amount. or even like 10x as much lol if you think his plan didn't change after securing the amount of funding he did. His original plan was to secure additional private funding after the KS ended, you know before they started setting records. Nice try though friend.
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Oct 14, 2015 02:31
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peter gabriel posted:Preach it brother #iamastarcitizen I like your cat.
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Oct 14, 2015 02:36
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natetimm posted:Are we all going to pretend like we don't know it's the dude with the exploding cat head avatar? Sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't me. I thought his previous avatar was glorious as it was. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
Also, SC has one despite the game being 'vaporware': https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council madcow fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 04:27
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fixing lovely broken game. at least his game has a bug report tool