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What is YISUN?
Mother
A lie we tell ourselves to have a purpose
Bliss
A paradox with no solution
Father
A strong female protagonist
The weakest thing there is and the smallest crawling thing
Creator
Everything in this miserable and hellish existence
A solution with no paradoxes
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Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012


I wonder if it is "normal" for Zoss to be beheaded by 6Juggs or is this was also a divergence from the previous events. Because I would assume that most of these cycles don't wind up with the demiurges starting to break out of their self build cages and Jagganoth deciding to invade now because by his own estimation he shows up after.

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




YaketySass posted:

Wait, Jagganoth's saying that the cycle ends with the Heir victorious against the "corrupt lords of the world", then Jagganoth drops by and kicks his rear end. But isn't Jagganoth himself one of these lords?

Jagganoth has always been a separate, greater being than the other demiurges - remember that they mainly exist as a loose alliance to keep him in check. What we're beginning to see here is that it may be inaccurate to think of him as a demiurge in the first place - that, or he is the one true demiurge, the divinely-appointed manager of creation, and they are simply an ever-changing roster of powerful warlords without any cosmological significance beyond that.

maswastaken
Nov 12, 2011



Most of the others settled for building and playing in their personal playpens, Jadis just kind of waited around a lot, Jagganoth and Incubus prepared for a fight.

Jagganoth worked on himself, Incubus worked on a furious idiot with a gem in her head - definitely not for anywhere near as long and definitely, definitely not for anywhere near as many of those lengths.

FlocksOfMice
Feb 3, 2009


Well, I eat my words arguing against the idea of a time loop. At least it's more of a "time is reset" thing and it does fit into the talk about cycles and circles in the errata.

This feels so weird for it to be the last book

is the thing we're going to hate Jaggs being right, killing everyone, and Zoss turning the wheel back again

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Regalingualius posted:

He’d probably find it hilarious if he wound up picking the heir that finally breaks the cycle completely by accident.

It would be extremely on brand. Zoss has, contra all of the other superpowers (the Demiurges and Juggernaut in particular), emphasized trusting others over imposing your own singular vision on the world. Kind of the whole point of that is that you end up surprised by what people do when you let them.

Farg posted:

so jagg is basically sans

Yeah.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


Here comes the Mighty Max ending

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrR4G4UJ9TQ#t=2222s

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


Farg posted:

so jagg is basically sans

How could you say something so cursed

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007


Farg posted:

so jagg is basically sans

you just had to go and post this

Victis
Mar 26, 2008



Jagganoth has never had the main Key, or at least never built up enough memories to understand why he wants it

Or, maybe he always gets the Key and he always makes this speech

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.



Farg posted:

so jagg is basically sans

new thread title

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




The cycle hasn't been broken yet, but this time it's already different, already changing because Zoss didn't pick the successor everyone who knows they're in a loop would expect. I think Incubus figured that out but didn't quite know what to do with that knowledge except try to incite more chaos. I think Jagganoth hasn't gotten the memo yet, but he's pretty smart so he'll get it soon. Of course he already has his own plan to break things.

Otherkinsey Scale
Jul 17, 2012

Just a little bit of sunshine!


Brought To You By posted:

I wonder if it is "normal" for Zoss to be beheaded by 6Juggs or is this was also a divergence from the previous events. Because I would assume that most of these cycles don't wind up with the demiurges starting to break out of their self build cages and Jagganoth deciding to invade now because by his own estimation he shows up after.

"Over time, those bound to Metatron have become increasingly aware of the extent of our own imprisonment." Increasingly is a key word there.

This may be the first cycle where 6 Juggernaut's understanding has advanced to the point that she knew when and where Zoss was going to pass on the key, and could come up with the idea to disrupt that moment.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


I'm a bit confused, but how did the demiurges get Zaid to begin with when he was captured by the Thorn Knights, who do not work for any of the demiurges and are only sort-of-allies with jagganoth who also does not work with the other demiurges

Otherkinsey Scale posted:

This may be the first cycle where 6 Juggernaut's understanding has advanced to the point that she knew when and where Zoss was going to pass on the key, and could come up with the idea to disrupt that moment.

Except that Zoss very clearly passes on the key to someone different each time. And if Metatron set this situation up, why on earth is he having the thorn knights chop the dudes head off and prevent him from picking an heir this time? Or is the assumption that the thorn knights have secretly gone rogue along with Jag here and metatron doesn't know.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


I think we're at what's supposed to be the final showdown.

The difference being that the other Demiurges aren't slain boss fights, and the Heir isn't Zaid. Jagganoth remembers the battles, but not the context, so he's just as blind and bound.

Reclaimer
Sep 3, 2011

Holy shit, I'm feelin' bad for you right now.




GlyphGryph posted:

Or is the assumption that the thorn knights have secretly gone rogue along with Jag here and metatron doesn't know.

This is literally what happened, except Metatron does know.

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC


GlyphGryph posted:

I'm a bit confused, but how did the demiurges get Zaid to begin with when he was captured by the Thorn Knights, who do not work for any of the demiurges and are only sort-of-allies with jagganoth who also does not work with the other demiurges


Except that Zoss very clearly passes on the key to someone different each time. And if Metatron set this situation up, why on earth is he having the thorn knights chop the dudes head off and prevent him from picking an heir this time? Or is the assumption that the thorn knights have secretly gone rogue along with Jag here and metatron doesn't know.

https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/ksbd-4-75/

The Thorn Knights that grabbed Zaid were moving through Jagganoth’s part the universe with Zaid and he killed them all and brought Zaid to the council.

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012


Otherkinsey Scale posted:

"Over time, those bound to Metatron have become increasingly aware of the extent of our own imprisonment." Increasingly is a key word there.

This may be the first cycle where 6 Juggernaut's understanding has advanced to the point that she knew when and where Zoss was going to pass on the key, and could come up with the idea to disrupt that moment.
https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/wielder-of-names-2-21/
Right I'd forgotten that 6 Juggs is aware of the time loops based not just on her conversation with white chain in the arena, but also in the void. And if we overlap her testimony with Jagganoth's the cycles might usually go with Zoss picking a successor, that one gets trained and takes out the demiurges, and then Juggernaut kills Zoss while Jagganoth defeats the successor to bring them before Metatron. But that's still keeping in mind that no single narrator is 100% accurate as to what is going on with these cycles.

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paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007


GreyjoyBastard posted:

new thread title

regrettably i have to second this. it brings me no joy, however

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