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SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

zcrow posted:

Well the first refund request has been sent. If I don't get my money back, no big deal. I'd rather waste it on something tangible though.

I'm frankly on the fence. I spent about $800 3 years ago, but some of that was packages for friends and others who then paid me back and I then I sold several ships on the grey market in 2014 after the release of Arena Commander and the fact it was total poo poo. Profits from those sales means today I'm into SC for around $50 give or take a tenner. That being said the "value" of my account is still around $400 and I could use that money to buy another P99 or PPQM1 before this crazy election happens.

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SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Samizdata posted:

WTF people? There is NO such thing as "passive radar". You have radar, you are emitting EM.

No, but there are passive sensors like RWR in modern fighters or hydrophones on submarines. Still these guys have never played a modern military sim like BMS or DCS to even have a clue how this stuff sort of works in the real world. I gave up hope of getting a flaming cliffs like game in space when Travis Day left.

And for those who say "DCS in space" have to realize that DCS has a range of titles. Flaming Cliffs is fairly dumbed down to where even more casual people can get into it. They still model the RWR & Radar systems, but it's select 1 - 6 on the keyboard for different weapons modes. It's 5 hot keys to power up and take off not flicking 30 switches in the right order in the cockpit. Not everything is A-10C or MiG-21Bis levels of detail. I never expected SC to be A-10C levels of detail, but at least on the order of Flaming Cliff's detail & complexity. Especially for meaningful sensor gameplay mechanics, but at this point they aren't building a game for us anymore. They are building a game now aimed at the Playstation & Xbox generation.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

aleksendr posted:

While most spergs bitch (or laugh) about the "Golf swing" detection mechanic as too simple many fail to see the "Why?", as in

"Why i need a "ping" to detect something so close i can already see it ?"

and

"How is the ping information usefull ?" (also LOL at the "ping" idea. Make absolutely no sense in space)

In modern (be it air, ground or water) warfare you can get killed and kill easily with "beyond visual" shots, so E-War and detection is very important, being your first line of defense. Things take time to go places and burn fuel while going there, so you try to not spend either for nothing and a theater commander will want as much information as posible to move its strategic assets in the most effective manner

There is also the very touchy and important question of "Is that radar blip a TU-95 "Bear" on an intercept course to my frigate or just a Boing 737 full of civilians flying too low due to an emergency caused by unforseen meteo event ?" I hope you have good information to make that call, because any error in that scenario will end in a messy diplomatic incident and a court martial. Sadly SC is not shaping up to care much about those things, Elite dangerous simple moto of "wait for a complete scan before shooting or you will get fined (and anger the cops)" is simple, but it is still better than nothing or "wanted stars".

If you are close enough to tell "Yes, they are <insert most recent Hollywood bad guys nation here> and shooting at us" like they demonstrated in the video then you no longer care about detection at all. You are instead in the tactical phase of "jammers and target acquisition", both things still associated to the pilot station.

For the e-war second seat ships to be usefull you need single seaters to have the equivalent of the early, myopic onboard radar like they had on the F-86 in Korea, only able to "see" in a slim cone ahead and designed to assist gun targeting, not detection. Then you can have multicrew ships with the superior "globe" 3d radar that differenciate between ships, cargo, rocks and color code enemies and allies when E-war crewmember are at station and a simpler "cone" forward radar like in x-wing or TIE fighter with only white dot "contacts" when its operated by the pilot.

They say they will use the mechanics to let you learn about onboard cargo. This one is important for single player mission or quest design where you can put a failure state if the "wrong" ship is attacked and use cargo scan to spot it, but for sandbox pvp its near useless, as pirate player will probably simply blow any ship they can and sift the goods by simply taking every pod in and jettisonning the crap later if something better show up. Lets not comment about the fact that any detection system strong enough to read a cargo manifest INSIDE THE TARGET HULL should be powerfull enough to strip the paint off and cook its pilot alive.

For all its focus on fidelity and epic 3000 page script CIG seem really bad at game desing. This poo poo is probably a SQ 42 game time padding feature (go scan 3 ships at point alpha, then go scan 3 more ships at point Bravo, etc) that they try to milk as "gameplay" in SC. Minimum viable product indeed.

drat you now I must go off and fire up DCS: F-86F instead of reading the comedy gold here while waiting for DNS updates to take effect...

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Wingman's Hangar was exactly what CIG needed to maintain the community. Eric and Rob had the right combination of technical expertise and charisma to maintain a fun and informative show. Moving the show to LA eliminated all of that and instead we got Ben and Sandi.

It's a perfect example of how Sandi's ego was given a greater priority than the good of the project.

Agreed. The vast majority of how the community *thinks* gameplay will work is from WMH where they would discuss things like the plans for the economy and various other gameplay mechanics. Since that show stopped and Rob & Eric left the company the information about those aspects of the game has been few and far between. We've learned a lot about the technical aspects of how much they had to change CryEngine, but very little about the plans for the meat and potatoes of gameplay. When they left is when I first raised an eyebrow. They seemed to be professionals that know how to get things done. The fact they managed to put together a kickstarter and produce a bare-bones but functional game in just a few months with Decent: Underground pretty much proves it in my book. Now I hated Decent in 1996. That's not going to change, but I still do watch WHM from time to time. I happened to catch a live episode back in June or July where Wingman was stuck in traffic. What did their Community Manager do? Fired up a game and challenged other players to come join him. A few minutes into the match there was Rob and a couple other devs in playing as well. When Wingman arrived about 20 minutes later he got on and their big news was about the challenges they were facing and why the latest build had been delayed a couple week. And while they didn't go into the 9th detail about why they did show a montage of their whiz kid programmer spending hours trying to figure out why guns wouldn't shoot on the latest build of Unreal. Then Wingman explained: "We updated to the latest build of Unreal to fix some VR issues we were having, but it broke the ability to shoot. We've spent about 8 days trying to figure out why and finally have had to resort to rolling back to a previous version of Unreal".

That is open development. I'm sure not all, but I believe most backers and gamers when presented with facts of what is going on and why can be pretty forgiving in these situations. If not forgiving at least understanding as to what is going on: i.e. you updated the engine to fix VR bug, caused another bug, etc..

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?
Well sent my refund request. Irony I will probably use the money to buy a PS4 Pro next month. Getting refunded from the project that was to "Save PC Gaming" in order to buy a new console. Which will probably used more to watch Netflix than to play games, but...

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

ManofManyAliases posted:

Putting aside the fact that you have ZERO (as in, absolutely no idea - zilch - nada) idea about what CIG's expenses are (because you don't know of their financials or what a company the size of CIG is dealing with), we can speculate that they are not operating at a loss. A company that operates at a loss is not looking to hire 60+ people, maintain four separate studios in different nations, attend public conferences, gainfully employee employees wanting to work there or even buy Restoration Hardware. You've been expecting it to collapse for three years. You've given timelines that range from 2 weeks to 90 days to 3 months, to 6 months and so forth. Your vie for attention is so transparent that we see it in your desperate attempts to stay relevant, whether it's through your Twitter, your blog or a competitor's (Frontier) forums. You even claim that you'll release your own "I am a Star Citizen" Video, but even that is hard to believe because the last time you tried to live stream or display anything it took PhD Derek 30 minutes to turn-off the feedback from your laptop mic.

Why do you continue to let these people here and elsewhere egg you into embarrassment? The longer you continue this, Derek, the harder you're going to fall into disgrace. Just let it go already. Let this weight slip off of your shoulders and watch how fast you'll lessen your stress.

Grab a Polaris and come meet us in the 'Verse.

Seriously you can figure out what it is costing a competitor or a company to produce a good or service. I did this back in my career in marketing to figure out price strategies before taking over the family farms when my father had a stroke. There are many ways of doing this. One of them is to find a publicly traded company in the same or similar business type and size and look at their cost numbers. Another is if it is a product you are familiar with and you know about how many man hours and overhead it would take you to do the task you then figure up what their cost per man hour + overhead is and figure it that way. This isn't rocket science and is done all the time in the business world.

Have these people never studied business nor worked in a corporate environment before?

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?
Idris was originally pitched as a "corvette" and taking a crew of around a bakers dozen. At some point it's become a cliche for the project as it now is a "frigate" that will require something like 35 - 40 people/NPC's to fully man and crew. This "Polaris" corvette it supposed to take the place of what was originally pitched as the Idris. That being said I think the people who bought an Idris back then thought they might at least be playing "Capture the Idris" game mode in Star Marine by now.

We had a couple Idris in the Org I was in and when it was a dozen people to crew, sure we could do that on the weekends on a regular basis pretty easy. Hell maybe even be able to take out two of them at a time. But 40? We've played games before that required a fair bit of organization in order to be effective and trying to organize a group of more than about a dozen people starts to become like herding cats.

Saddest part is most of the people I know who bought Idris ships did so to become the "big guy" and they think that by owning one of those ships that everybody will want to serve under them. Never mind the fact that they are going to lose those ships first time out of dock because they are idiots or they are going to quickly discover that they can't crew them because...well again they are idiots. If the ship does get lost they'll blame everyone but themselves for making a stupid decision. They know they aren't smart or good enough to earn the respect of their peers enough to be leaders so they thought by spending 4 figures they could buy that respect by having "the biggest ship".

Edit: Catte Tax

SpaceCurtisLeMay fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Oct 5, 2016

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

AP posted:

Did they grant your refund request?

Waiting for a final tally to see if their numbers match mine.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I know they'll never do it, but they have this massive region of space that they could turn into a paradise for players to go out and do whatever the gently caress they wanted with if they so chose. Let players set up stations, mine resources, fight over it, all in a spot hours away from the bubble in a region where the carebears would never have to go near. Then they would finally have something to do.

Actually they have proposed setting up the area around Jaques station as a second "bubble" for players to fight over. The care bear contingent out there are all ready balling their eyes out over the prospect because that would ruin their "but this area is to get away from those evil murder hobos and work together man" hippy commune. Now this would still be via their NPC faction & BGS interaction mechanics which will never fulfill the wants and desires of the "I want to do and see direct results of my actions", but Elite is never going to be EVE 2.0 with cockpits. And frankly as someone near 40 with a job and family I think I prefer the "each side runs their missions/objectives for a week and at tick which ever one did more wins" approach. I'm beyond the point of waking up at 3AM to raid an enemy base because they are all asleep.

To be honest I think FDEV is just now has their core systems to the point where they are ready to make these changes and that started with the overhaul to the missions system earlier this year and they are talking about overhauls to crime and punishment as well as power play with the new "power play" mechanics probably aimed at this new bubble area. 2.2 is probably the biggest QOL pass the game has seen to date and while it won't fix all the problems it is going along way. I hope this continues with 2.3 adding multi-crew/commander creator and then on the QOL side having group/wing missions you can take and share. I think 2.4 is going to be the massive overhaul to things like power play, probably opening up this new bubble to player group expansion, as well as number of other things.

I've been back playing Elite the past month, but comparing how I finally can start to see how the BGS works compared to last year is night and day different. I won't say it's perfect, but I've been watching system states and such change doing this multi-week community goal. I've also noticed that prices for commodities vary now much more from station to station. They still tend to be relatively static at that station and not change much, unless there is a CG, but the feed back is there.

What I see FDEV having to do in the next year is to add in a supply chain mechanic. i.e. you bring resource A,B,C to an industrial station it will output more of widget 1. Bring resources x,y,z it produces more of widget 2. Not direct control over production, but certainly be able to influence it more. Especially outside of the bubble.

But that's enough about Elite, buy a Polaris.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

For me the problem is very simple; the further away from actual agency I have in the game the less interested I would be in playing it. I agree that 3AM raids isn't really viable when you're an actual adult with a life, but at the very least I think it would be appropriate to let players create their own stations or do something to that level. Maybe have the actual changes be very slow, but the changes themselves be something the players could do (like decide where a station would go, what it would have, etc). I feel like there has to be a way to enable players to get more agency (and want to continue to play) and not have it be EVE.

Some of that may eventually make its way into the game. There's been some off hand remarks from FDEV about the ability to set up mining rigs to do mining, even while you are logged off, and come back to collect the contents and bring to market. I assume these would be the rigs we see at mining bases now that are POI's and with the ability to have persistent POI's in 2.2 and the related tech they are creating for Planet Coaster who knows. Now I'm not optimistic that we'll see anything before late season 3 at the earliest, probably more likely season 4 or beyond, but I can at least see Frontier developing some kind of homesteading mechanic at some point. Like you with 400 million stars or whatever it is why not allow that to happen in unexplored space? Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on how you want to look at it, FDEV tends to do baby steps. But in the meantime there is a game I can play and with their pace of development step away from for weeks or months at a time and come back to it. There is a majestic beauty to the game that, especially in VR, is just unmatched at this point. Will it keep me engaged for hundreds of hours on end...probably not. Will it keep me coming back...yes. At least until something better comes along. But until then...

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

The Titanic posted:

If this is true it's just more bad news for CIG. They're losing the market and no new blood is coming in.

I'm willing to bet the drama alone is selling some starter packages though. People like to be a part of something.

I don't believe CIG will suddenly go under though. I'm willing to bet that will happen when they actually release something officially and dreams meet reality and how well that will turn out for everybody.

I was reading earlier today that auto sales were down which is following a downward trend in real estate as well. Those are typical market signs that a correction is incoming followed by a possible recession. That next correction/recession will be what kills them. Especially if things like welfare and disability payments go through a round of austerity and those who do have high incomes now find themselves first on the chopping block when the pink slips come.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Raskolnikov posted:

way to go thatguy!
There really is a large part of the active online SC "community" that is mentally ill. Sex addicts, people with PTSD, DickWulf going in for ECT, Miku with his depression meds, agoraphobics living off family/welfare, people living in mom's basement who think they're a wolf. loving SPACEBUNNY.

I've met all these people and more while I hung around the SC community. :smith:

It's a trait I've noticed over the years. The people I know who have spent the most all seem to have issues. They are either trying to buy respect or trying to find some sort of meaning in their lives through a video game. Frankly the ones who have spent the most are usually the ones who can afford it the least. And it's sad to say but when reality shatters their dreams there's going to be suicides. It's another reason why I want out. It was one thing to spend a couple hundred dollars 3 - 4 years ago when the genre was dead and I had been waiting for something to revive the genre. But it's become some kind of monster I no longer want anything to do with it.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?
Please tell me we're not going to get rick rolled like with Assange again....

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?
Not sure if this has been posted here or not but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htqOIjzi-jE

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Darkpriest667 posted:

I have solar panels, got tired of having to depend on gasoline. I can 't run the washer and drier if the power goes down but I can run EVERYTHING else including 2 servers and a dell workstation. Even if I lose half the panels I can still run the lights and the heat (or air) I would highly recommend you do solar panels and some batteries. Could be worth it for you if you plan on staying in hurricane alley.

Solar panels and 150MPH winds don't always get along.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

ripptide posted:

I know what you're saying, but just look at how fast the community got over Wingman and Designopotomus leaving, and I'd personally say they were far more liked and respected than these two clods. It's all in how they make the exit. If they were just turfed out the door, there'd probably be some fire. But if they "left for a better position etc", it'd probably be fairly minor. It's not like these spergs have much of a long term memory anyways.


Or short term for that matter.


Basically, they're lucky if they can do the velcro up on their shoes......

I won't say that some of us didn't "get over" their departure as so much as to us it was the first sign that all was not well in CIG land. That was the first red flag that something was going awry.

Doge Tax:

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

no_recall posted:

https://twitter.com/edwardclewis/status/783234302398107648

CIG really needs decent looking / attractive even (gasp!) community facing peeps.


fake edit: those are FD's community managers.

Well their CM for Elite, Ed Lewis, actually plays the game with the community. The CM for Decent: Underground a couple months ago when Wingman was stuck in traffic and late got on their stream and said "boot up a game folks" and before long it was him, Rob, and a few players from the community all playing the current version of their game. Of course they actually have a game in both cases which I guess helps.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

D1E posted:

Question for the armchair lawyers:

In Derek's tweetstorm, he mentioned that he advised the CIG employees who want to go public to just wait until the company folds and then not be subject to the NDA.

If a company is doing genuinely illegal things, would violating NDA to report those violations to the authorities still be subject to civil action? Isn't there some kind of "whistleblower" clause or something that would protect the employees if they called a press conference right now? At the very least, wouldn't that be a mitigating factor to the judge/jury - "hey, this company wasn't paying hourly employees for overtime, and they were totally lying to their customers about the state of the product, and now they're suing me for $50,000 because I told on them - does that seem fair"?

I am not a lawyer, not even a pretend one. I just want someone to officially gently caress over Chris Roberts, Sandi Gardiner, and Ortwin Freyermuth. They are scum.

Contracts have to be executed in good faith. If what they are doing is illegal then the NDA is in bad faith and is not enforceable.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

his nibs posted:

Unironically there is a PhD/Masters just begging to be done on this.

If I had it in me to go back to school I'd totally take this on. But getting an MBA they make you write a thesis they call a "Business Plan". Although I do have a friend working on a PhD. in organizational behavior...I should suggest this as an idea for her dissertation.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

scrubs season six posted:

Ben sure looks good and that he has started to make a lot of lifestyle changes since his hospital scare.

He doesn't he looks like he weighs 700 pounds. I think he's actually fatter now.

Holy crap. He would be beyond useful load of the DA-40 I fly.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Daztek posted:

Yeah, I confused the MP beta date of October 14th with the release date :downs:

Doesn't battlefield 1 release on October 21st? I doubt they want to release Titanfall 2 and Battlefield 1 on the same day. In fact I find it odd that EA is release two big FPS shooters within a week of each other.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?
I caught up on the thread today. Rained so can't get into the fields to start getting the beans out so watched through the CitizenCon stuff and wow. That was all they had to show for things 4 years later. They would have been better off building their own drat engine which I guess they ended up building off CryEngine anyway.

I got the generic "Please think twice before asking for a refund" message and have replied to that with more stuff towards getting a refund. Not sure what I'll get with the refund. My GTX 970 runs everything I play just fine and I don't think I'll go VR anytime soon. I'm waiting to see if it actually catches on or just ends up being a fad like 3D TV's a couple years ago.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

scrubs season six posted:

Are you the famous citizen that was disenchanted with farming and thinking about selling his farm in order to live in the 'verse full time?

Or are you SurfaceDetail and going to post your balls at some point in the near future?

Either one is awesome, I'm just trying to temper my expectations.

Nope. I won't be selling until my Dad dies and we're forced to in order to play the Estate Taxes that will be due. Especially when Hillary is elected and if she gets her 65% death tax. Unfortunately even with a 15 year payment plan the taxes due each year would be enough to be the difference between breaking even with a little profit and being in the red every year. We have enough cash on hand we can basically afford to pay the 40% tax rate, but that would mean we'd have no free cash in order to plant the next crop. Keep in mind it takes about $2,000,000 cash in order to put in a crop. Then you are borrowing against the farm to plant the crop and well...at that point might as well sell the land take the money and do something else.

Edit: That something else will probably be me getting my multi-engine rating and CPL and see about flying with Wings of Hope as a volunteer pilot: https://wingsofhope.ngo

SpaceCurtisLeMay fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Oct 13, 2016

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?
This is what gets me the most. They've had 4 years to figure out the design side of how the gameplay is supposed to happen, but we heard more about it two years ago with Wingman and Rob Irving. Yet I've not seen too much. Its one of those things that I have a lot of time to watch videos and such on my iPad in the spring & fall as I drive tractors or the combine. I hate country music and there is no Cardinals post season baseball this year to listen to on the radio.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

MarcusSA posted:

Where the gently caress is that city?

Czech Republic, or Czechia or whatever they are calling it these days....

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

scrubs season six posted:

Stop mincing words: do we get to see your balls or not?

Here ya go:

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Justin Tyme posted:

Okay I think it's time for the LA feds to start issuing subpoenas

Couldn't the "refactoring" be construed as a sort of really convenient layoff excuse without actually laying anyone off because lol if anyone will loving agree to move.

Wasn't this basically the same strategy they used to get rid of Wingman? They weren't getting rid of his position, but if he wanted to continue he'd have to move to LA?

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Duckaerobics posted:

Real talk if your family is at all interested in keeping the farm it should be put into an LLC. This can avoid the estate taxes as well as being a smart thing to do in general.

Already have three Trusts and we set up an LLC and moved all the equipment & operations over to that. It's the land that's the issue. Only so much you can do when you have nearly 3000 acres and the going rate is around $5,000 an acre.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Duckaerobics posted:

I don't really know how all that works. Can the land not be transferred to an LLC or trust also?

I have a similar issue where my grandfather was logger and they have a bunch of timberland in Oregon. I'm really worried the land is going to be sold off.

There are other tax considerations and it gets to be fairly...complicated and I'll leave it at that. Economic realities of farming these days dictate that we either get bigger and farm more acres or it is time to think about something else and we don't have the capital to get bigger. I only got into running the farms about 4 years ago after my father had a stroke. Ironically he only took over the farms 20 years ago after spending 30 years in the corporate world and retired at 55. What sucks isn't my situation, but the fact that 6 good paying full time jobs with benefits will be lost in the area that frankly doesn't have much else. My wife and I left our careers to manage the farms because many of the people have worked for my grandfather & father now for 20+ years.

Now back to Star Citizen: this doesn't surprise me at all given their very conservative estimated burn rate of $3M per month even if develop only started in "2013". That is still ~$96M over the course of 3 nearly 3 years plus squadron 42 production costs. I know it's not quite that, but if S42 cost at least $15M - $20M to make they've spent at least $100M at this point. $28M, say $24M just after to take processing fees into account, isn't enough to sustain the business for another year without massive cost reductions. All it was going to take was one of their 4th quarter funding drives to go poorly and well...

And that was bound to happen eventually. The market for this game is probably what: 2M at most? Isn't that about the number of ED and NMS sales?

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Decrepus posted:

It is really surprising people can't figure stuff like this out. The entire Squadron 42 campaign is done but they don't even know how to dock ships yet? They don't know how you will transition to planets yet? etc

Meanwhile isn't Elite getting ships that can be launched from their larger ships in the next couple weeks?

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Rudager posted:

As bad as that was, that loving gif background creeped me out more. I'm no woman, but pretty sure if I was wearing my shorts/underwear that far down it would be uncomfortable at best.

Meanwhile last year in Elite all I could do is fly around, shoot stuff, and trade. A year later I can land on some planets, drive a buggy around, mod my ship's systems with engineers and apparently also be able to launch and recover fighters in the next week or two. I won't get to play for a couple more weeks. We should be finished with the harvest this weekend so long as the weather holds, but then it is a couple weeks of field prep for next year and planting winter wheat.

I don't think Elite is perfect. It has things that suck about it. Especially the whole power play thing, but I was watching the beta live streams while driving the combine on my iPad and I wish their devs would do some sort of live stream and show things a little earlier more often. Not every week, but do a live stream once a month and show off where they are on a couple of features. Maybe with someone from Team GUI and Team Render once in a while discussing challenges. I would especially like to hear from Team Networking. FDEV tends to play things a little too close to the chest. The changes to Neutron Stars looks like they were a happy accident with the 300% jump range boost and they decided to keep it because the community liked it. It seems while CIG has gone more radio silent over the past year suddenly FDEV is getting much more involved with the community now and soliciting gameplay ideas and feedback for QOL improvements over the next few patches.

Although I saw comments of the guy playing really sucked in the background and was proof they don't play their own games etc.. Well I'd suck too if I was having to pay attention to an active chat log to find questions to answer as well as talking to a dev next to me all the while trying to fly on a device I'm not familiar with nor how I normally play the game. But at least they WERE Playing their own game in the background. CIG never does that.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Colostomy Bag posted:

Ah lonely Nyx. It was just 12 months ago when they stated it would be soon after showing the landing sequence.

I thought the same thing about landing at ArcCorp 2 years ago....still waiting.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

HycoCam posted:

PSA: When your midlife crisis comes along the three urges seem to be quit your job, leave your wife, and/or buy a sportscar. For those not in the know--buy the sportscar. The sportscar is by far the least expensive of the options.

I bought into a flying club as my mid life crisis. Still cheaper than actually buying an airplane...or a sports car.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

TheLightPurges posted:

I imagine most of them do it as a hobby.
I'm just saying if they claim to be making a living streaming SC they'd have to be paid by CIG(or the PR firm paid by CIG).

A couple have been trying to turn it into a living. I don't know about directly paid, but they are always giving ships away so either they are going deeply into debt to bribe people to watch or CIG are giving them free ships to give away as promotions. Either way under FTC guiltiness I believe they have to disclose that or it is illegal. Didn't the Ken Bone guy from the debate just get in trouble for tweeting Uber or something?

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Raskolnikov posted:

Who was that rich jackass that spent like 300k moving to a city office and buying out of date (now) computer hardware? He was run off the CIG forums for "promoting a brand" or something back around 2013, but I remember marveling at the stupidity of it. Even back then, when dreams were fresh and new cultists were even saying "that's too much!"

The dude that wanted to build some sort of Star Citizen game center or something where people could play in the same room or something. I'm fuzzy on the details, but I remember that and he wanted to launch a KS to pay for it or sell memberships or something. People said it smelled like a scam. Although to be fair to SC back in 2013 it seemed like things were going well. Wingman and Rob were giving us tidbits of how gameplay systems would work. They released the hangar module on schedule and things seemed to be on track for a dogfighting module later that year. Then I guess the money game rolling in and the plan went to poo poo. Rob and Eric have proven since they can indeed build a product and get it out the door. Not of the same scope as SC, but they seem to be going the same path as FDEV with Elite and they got at least something that is functional onto the market in just a few months that would have been the same scope as I would have expected from a "Dogfighting Module".

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

TheAgent posted:

come be a total heretic like myself and play battlefield 1 on the ps4

its like star marine without stars and on a console

and it p fun

everything that citizens hate

I was going to get BF1 on the PS4. I've been a complete Console peasant when it comes to the past two battlefields. Why? Not as many cheaters, everyone is using the same hardware/controller and WSAD games and my fingers don't get along so well anymore. One of the reasons why I like flight and racing games. They don't cause the top of my hand to go on fire after 45 minutes. However of my gaming buddies only one other was going to get it on PS4 and everyone one else on PC so I ordered on PC. But if it goes 50% off black friday like 4 did I'll pick it up for the PS4 as well.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Star Citizen's demographic is very, very old compared to most other games. They're typically white, male, wealthy, educated, and fondly remember Wing Commander and gaming from the 90s. They closely identify with escapist sci-fi franchises like Star Wars or Firefly, and in my experience are less interested in actual gameplay than they are about immersion and escapism. If anything they look down on groups that are more focused on gameplay, like console gamers or younger generations, and I think there's a deeply seated fear that those kinds of players would ruin everything. The majority of the backers that I've interacted with online and in person are well-adjusted adults who happen to really want this game to succeed. The vocal minority that we spend so much time laughing at are the extreme and frankly if CIG was better managed they would have been ostracized years ago. Instead CIG goes out of their way to enable them (because they're also the most financially invested) which leads to the situation that we're currently in.

People are addicted to Star Citizen because it's pure strain escapism.

This is the breakdown I've seen over the past couple years. Those who liked space games and wanted to have fun paid $60 - $120 which equals one AAA title + DLC for something like BF1. Most of them just roll their eyes when SC comes up in TS and laugh at how the whole mess has gone down primarily the fact that there are no discussions on game mechanics. Then you have people like me who put in $500 and are now seeking refunds. Why? Well we really like these types of games, want there to be meaningful mechanics, and generally we don't play a lot of games, but play a few games a lot. $500 isn't a lot to me in the scheme of things and I have 3 - 4 months of downtime in the winter. We don't have cattle or pigs so once the winter wheat is planted only things to do is maintenance on equipment and frankly my farm hands do most of that work.

Something I noticed about everyone who bought an idris or other large ships: in the other games we played where skill and leadership cream rose to the top they could never make it. They aren't smart enough or have the right qualities to 'figure things out' as it were and typically idiots that no one would follow. Well they have the opinion that if they spend all this money they can basically buy that prestige. "You should serve on my ship because I'm the one who spent $1250 and you only spent $50, bask in my greatness" and the thing of it is no one wants to because they know that person will take their ship into a stupid situation and lose it if a game ever does come out. And when that happens it's not going to be person who bought the ship's fault: it will be everyone else fault. If there ever is a game I hope people twitch stream or record some of these meltdowns because the rage is going to hilarious. These are the people who if there never is a game or if it doesn't pan out the way they want are going to be most disappointed.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?
I just got the check for the rice advance and I could probably afford to buy the entire lot and either put in my airplane hangar/quonset hut on the farm or I've got to burn rice stubble off here in the next few weeks anyway. Maybe get some tannerite and set up the M1918. Hell I should charge money to BF1 fans as I've got my grandfather's WWI collection: M1911, M1903, M1917, Lee-Enfield in .303, and then the M1918 (BAR). I don't have any Mauser rifles though. Got his old Walther PP he brought back as a trophy from WWII though.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

ripptide posted:

If you're not into the PvP side as much, easiest thing I found was hitting the rares route to build up the balance a bit. This guide was very helpful
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteTraders/comments/4krpe0/masarks_guide_to_trade_sidewinder_to_anaconda/

Rares work. Also doing community goals can built up the assets well. Also right now there are long range trade missions out of CEOS & Sothis that pay well (but getting nerfed in next patch). Then there was the CG a few weeks ago that paid out like a broken slot machine. Top 10% got 330M credits and it was a trading CG. I think I did like 3000 tons and was top 25% without trying too hard. Also if you have Horizons you can stack missions to kill a generator and literally make 10M - 20M credits with one pull of the trigger.

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SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Can I be your friend and come over? I have beer.

Just remember: beer after machine guns....

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