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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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goose fleet posted:

How the gently caress do you determine if a historical figure is gay or not

You try to find evidence that they had sexual relationships with persons of their own gender.

lol just kidding you make poo poo up and wait for the controversy dollarydoos to roll in.

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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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e: wrong thread

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Krugman are three different people. :aaaaa:

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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I still think it’s surprising that educated people knew the world was round a thousand years before Columbus set sail, but germ theory didn’t take hold till the nineteenth century.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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I still think Democritus et al. get too much credit for hypothesising the existence of atoms.

There was no particular evidence for it, they just thought it was an elegant idea. It was a coincidence that the world actually works that way.

If they’d observed something like Franklin’s oil film experiment and that’s what made them believe matter was composed of discrete units, that would be different.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fpok24QaAU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs29ky8DeBw

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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The WWII U.S. Army booklet 112 Gripes About the French is good reading.

“Yeah, we know the French are dicks, but there are some mitigating circumstances. Please put up with them.”

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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The only thing that stopped Germany from getting a temporary new sun or two is that they rolled over too fast to conventional weapons.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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The Nazis’ rejection of “Jewish” science isn’t exactly what doomed Uranprojekt (they didn’t have the resources anyway), but there’s a great irony in it.

I believe that’s what Plucky Brit meant by they would have had to go “back to first principles” (and accept the work of Jewish scientists, or at least their conclusions).

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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MisterBibs posted:

Not as much a student of history as much as I'd like, but it always blows my mind when I read about how lovely the Nazis were about... well, practically everything. There's this weird dichotomy to thinking about them: evil incarnate, but stupid ad poo poo at the same time.

Historical Fun Fact: The Nazis spent more on their V‐weapons than the U.S. spent on the Manhattan Project.

You decide: Which had a better return on investment?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Nuclear weapons have a great ROI as a deterrent to major wars.

Then Armageddon happens and they go max negative.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Khazar-khum posted:

There's an Ask/tell thread about getting married in the Catholic Church?

Probably the liturgical Christianity thread.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Jesus has historically been pretty quotable.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Jerningham Wakefield, NZ MP

quote:

Because of his increasing alcoholism his behaviour was very erratic and he was an embarrassment to his supporters. He was one of the MPs sometimes locked in small rooms at Parliament by Whips to keep them sober enough to vote in critical divisions, though in 1872 this was defeated when political opponents lowered a bottle of whisky down the chimney to him.

Platystemon has a new favorite as of 01:12 on Jun 16, 2016

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Oxford University was founded before the Aztec Empire.

This may be a popular titbit, but I haven’t seen it in the few months I’ve been reading the thread, at least.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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A White Guy posted:

In a sense, the Roman Empire continues to exist even today - The Catholic Church, an institution that gained a major amount of power in the Roman Empire with the ascension of Constantine I, i still a sovereign entity. Edit: beaten to it

The Donation of Constantine is by no means the way the Catholic Church gained all their power, but it’s a document with a fascinating history so I’m posting it here.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Thomas Jefferson told Lewis & Clark to be on the look‐out for mammoths and giant sloths.

Platystemon has a new favorite as of 06:41 on Jun 29, 2016

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Arcsquad12 posted:

William Henry Harrison holds the record for shortest term in office of any United States President, from March 4th to April 4th, 1841. The Whig Party put him up as their candidate hoping to emulate the success of Andrew Jackson's election by banking on Harrison's fame as a war hero. Problem was, Harrison wasn't exactly the healthiest dude and was rather old when he took office. He also spent a lot of time outside, and caught pneumonia and died a month into his presidency.

Daniel Webster was offered the position of VP, but declined, perceiving it as a dead‐end position.

He did it again with Zachary Taylor, the second president to die in office. Man didn’t know how to take a hint.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Khazar-khum posted:

Everyone knows the California Gold Rush started in 1848 at Sutter's Mill. This was the first discovery of gold in California,

Nope.

[snip]

The find at Sutter’s Mill wasn’t the first discovery of gold in California, but it was the start of the California Gold Rush.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Angry Salami posted:

Oh, it was worse than that - in addition to the Free Imperial Cities and Villages, there were also Imperial Knights - that is to say, individual knights who answered directly to the Emperor, and thus possessed the same privileges of "Imperial Immediacy" as any other state within the Empire. So basically in addition to that clusterfuck of a map people have posted, you'd also have a few hundred dudes who could claim their house as a separate territory, and ignore the taxes, laws and religious policy of any other prince of the Empire, because, hey, they're a state in their own right.

Did they ride around wearing fedoras and asking AM I BEING DETAINED?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Carbon dioxide posted:

What's that enclave near the south-east of the Dutch Republic?

That may be Huissen, exclave of the Duchy of Cleves.

e: Probably too small, though.

Platystemon has a new favorite as of 19:13 on Jul 20, 2016

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Christmas Present posted:

I can't remember the context so this may be apocryphal, but I remember learning that in skirmishes with early German jet aircraft, Allied planes would make great use of their ability to actually be able to fly slowly, an ability the Nazis' air-hungry jet engines didn't have.

I don’t know about props vs. jets, but Soviet pilots in Po‐2s took advantage of this against fighters like the Bf 109 and Fw 190.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Delivery McGee posted:

Early in the war, the German fighters figured out that trick -- they'd follow the British bombers back across the channel and easily pick them off while they were landing -- but then, in typical Nazi comedy of errors style, the high command told them to stop doing that thing that was working really well because it wasn't producing visible results for the people. Hitler wanted bombers shot down over Germany, where das volk could see it happen, thus increasing their morale.

I can kinda see his point, but In addition to it being much more difficult to shoot down an alert bomber with all its guns manned than a bomber flaring for landing, I question the morale-boosting value of having a flaming Rolls-Royce Merlin (of worse, four of them with most of the Lancaster still attached) fall through one's roof. That's gotta be hell on the carpet.

Don’t tell me the British weren’t going to soon counter this tactic and counter it hard anyway.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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A White Guy posted:

Also, fun fact: The ridges on the edge of coins? Supposedly an idea thought up Isaac Newton, as a way to prevent people from shaving off gold from the currency without it being really obvious. Not really that important nowadays, but this was a Big problem in times when all currency was made of some valuable metal. The process is called 'reeding'.

Reminder that Newton’s position as Warden of the Mint was just supposed to give him a cushy salary, but he took the job seriously.

There’s a 2009 book about this, Newton and the Counterfeiter.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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ToxicSlurpee posted:

A fun fact that people don't know is that precious metal coins weren't the only thing that was effectively currency. Grain comes to mind; properly stored wheat could keep for a rather impressive amount of time and would be traded around basically like a currency. After all, everybody eats bread, right? Food is pretty much always in good demand and at the time was pretty hard to overproduce and devalue.

Compressed tea worked well for this.



Rai, from Yap, are probably the strangest form of currency I’ve seen.


Pictured: a metric tonne of money

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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"TIME, 7 September 1953 posted:

Science: Problem Child

The germanium transistor, now five years old, has reached a ripe, mature age as electronic gadgets grow. But, asked the Philco Corp.'s Director of Research Donald G. Fink, "Is it a pimpled adolescent, now awkward, but promising future vigor? Or has it arrived at maturity, full of languor, surrounded by disappointments?"

Most experts (Fink included) were at first convinced that the transistor was a prodigy. In time, they predicted, it would do anything as well as a vacuum tube. The experts were wrong, says Fink. […]

I came across this cited in the Wikipedia article on the history of the transistor. Alas, I do not have access to the full text. I’m surprised Google couldn’t find it transcribed elsewhere on the web, like in a university professor’s course pages.

Fink was no Luddite. It’s funny to think that people like that had serious doubts about the transistor in 1953. What if the transistor had been a dead end? It’s almost unimaginable today.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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It is possible to cook with seawater, it’s just that that doesn’t solve the curing/inland trade problem. It does help conserve fresh water, so historically it’s been done aboard ships and in coastal communities with limited fresh water sources.

In general, it’s easier to mine fossil salt deposits than to evaporate seawater.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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pidan posted:

Contemporary fun fact:
In the part of Central Europe where I live, the borders of fields and plots of land are marked with stones and other markings.

This reminds me of ridge & furrow patterns, visible to this day.



Oxen can do some serious earthmoving if given enough time.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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xthetenth posted:

Lamentably that also is where a decent amount of Roman-era lead artefacts go as well.

Low background lead is a little different than steel.

Iron ore is fine. It’s the blast furnace that contaminates it with hot particles from the atmosphere. If you had a clean‐room blast furnace, that would work. It just happens to be cheaper to recycle pre‐1945 steel.

Lead is contaminated by Pb‐210 straight out of the ground. This is because it’s found with elements of the uranium series (starting with U‐238), and they’re constantly producing Pb‐210.

When the lead is refined, it’s made chemically pure. This halts the production of Pb‐210, but the Pb‐210 that already exists in the sample remains.

If you need low‐background lead, you need lead refined no later than the eighteenth century so that that Pb‐210 has had suitably many half‐lives to decay.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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I don’t put a massive amount of weight on the distinction between “swore allegiance to the führer because he wanted to blow poo poo up” and “blew poo poo up because he swore allegiance to the führer”.

We only got to prosecute the latter, but the other guys were bastards as well.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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xthetenth posted:

Rommel's really really not a good example for trying to prove that there were a bunch of officers who weren't neck deep in nazi stuff. His reputation kind of turns on people not asking questions like "were there Jews in North Africa other than ones in allied armies?" and "Hey isn't his reputation based in part on a book by David loving Irving?".

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4tuviz/is_it_true_that_erwin_rommel_was_kind_to_his/

Rommel was head bodyguard to Hitler at the outbreak of the war. A good man in his position would have shot Hitler in the back.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Dunno-Lars posted:

I read or heard someone say that Hitler was actually a good thing for the Allies. His incompetence played a huge part in Germany loosing the war, and had he been replaced by someone competent, things might have gone very different. I have no sources or anything, but it sounds plausible to me. I am sure someone else might have some more input on this.

In late 1944, the Allies certainly thought so—that’s why they shelved the Operation Foxley plan to assassinate him.

I think that in general Hitler’s incompetence is overstated, but whether or not time travelers should aim to assassinate Hitler, Rommel can hardly be the anti‐Hitler when he was literally guarding the man’s back at the critical moment.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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California was an independent republic once.

It didn’t last long and they didn’t do much, but it also wasn’t for reasons of slavery, so suck it, Texas. :colbert:

Platystemon has a new favorite as of 05:22 on Oct 27, 2016

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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bean_shadow posted:

So the key, when time travel exists, is to go back in time and drag Hitler into the office to meet this guy.

Nah. Killing him when he's homeless in Vienna is a lot easier.

Convince Henry Tandey to pull the trigger.

Foil kid Hitler’s rescue by Johann Kuehberger. Take him on some diversion that keeps him from the river.

Or, for the stealthiest solution, knock on his parents’ door at just the right time to prevent his conception.

Platystemon has a new favorite as of 14:38 on Oct 28, 2016

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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The only thing we know about the gesture is that the thumb was involved.

e: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/Encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/polliceverso.html

Platystemon has a new favorite as of 12:09 on Oct 29, 2016

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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So the y‐axis increases in the upward direction because that’s where the Abrahamic god lives?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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Siivola posted:

I just imagined a graph where the axes increased left and down and :psyduck:

Bitcoin is going DOWN DOwn down!

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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The rationalisaiton I’ve seen for “thumbs down means he lives” is that it represents the lowering of a sword.

:flaccid:

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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alriclofgar on Reddit posted:

On a purely practical level, bronze makes better weapons than (pure) iron. Bronze has a Vicker's hardness (HV) of about 300, while pure iron is closer to 100HV. Practically speaking, that means that iron weapons are more difficult to keep sharp and are more likely to bend. You may have heard of the passage from Caesar's Gallic Wars where the barbarian warriors have to stop mid-battle and straighten their bent iron swords? Metallographic analyses of surviving swords from the period suggest that this was probably a true story. Gallic swords were typically made from pure iron with very high ductility (easily bent), and would not have stood up well to a protracted fight. Early iron weapons were, on the whole, not very good, and this didn't really change until steel became widespread in the early middle ages. Given a choice between a well-made bronze spear and an iron spear from antiquity, I would probably choose to fight with the bronze.

The real reason for the shift from iron to bronze had more to do with economics and, probably, with magic.

Copper and tin are both relatively rare, and access to bronze depended, consequentially, on maintaining long trade routes to ensure steady supply. Single Bronze Age copper mines like the one on Great Orm (Wales) appear to have provided copper for a wide geographic area, and the community which controlled it must have leveraged their monopoly to enormous social advantage. Iron ore, in contrast, is much more common, making it easier to produce a stockpile of weapons locally without having to trade with distant monopolies. The greatest limit on local iron production is charcoal, as smelting iron ore into useful metal requires a lot of trees.

Most scholars agree that the collapse of long-range trade routes around the 12th century BC (the 'Greek Dark Age' or 'Bronze Age Collapse') pushed many people to become more reliant on local resources, which sparked the slow transition to reliance on iron weapons.

The transition from bronze to iron took a long time, though - bronze weapons and armor remained common well into the 1st millennium BC. This is almost certainly in part due to bronze's superiority over pure, soft iron, but also may have been connected to the 'magical' or ritual functions of weaponry in the ancient world. Chris Gosden recently made this argument, suggesting that the conceptual shift from bronze to iron working required more than the development of new technological processes. Bronze is melted into a liquid and cast into a mold, while iron is hammered into shape while still a solid (it's only much later that the technology to cast weapons-grade iron became available in the western world). Switching from one metal to the other wasn't, therefore, as simple as swapping out one material for the other. It required both new technological processes and a new understanding of what a metal could be and what it could do. Bronze was a liquid, and Gosden notes that bronze weapons were frequently thrown into water as sacrifices. Iron, in contrast, is more closely connected with the soil (iron ore is often rusty sand, iron is worked as a solid instead of a liquid, and - left alone - iron quickly transforms back into rusty dirt), and Gosden notes that iron technology really took off on in many parts of Europe only after there was a cultural shift away from religious / magical rituals connected with water toward new rituals concerned with fertility and the ground (and in these rituals, iron - instead of bronze - objects start to be sacrificed). It was only with this conceptual shift, Gosden argues, in which earth - and iron - replaced bronze's ritual, magical role that people were willing to embrace the new material and finally abandon bronze weapons.

So when an army equipped itself with iron weapons instead of bronze, it wasn't a simple trade of bad/old technology for newer/better. The new iron weapons were likely more difficult to keep sharp and more likely to be damaged. They were, however, also likely less expensive (or at least, easier to come by locally without reaching too far afield), which meant you could arm a larger warband in your back yard than in the old bronze-dominated economy. And the new iron weapons likely had different ritual and magical associations which made them more (or less) suitable for the grim business to come. All these factors were ultimately much more significant than the simple hardness of the metal.

Cite is: Gosden, C., (2012), Material, Magic and Matter: understanding different ontologies: in “Maran, J. and Stockhammer, P. (eds) Materiality and Social Practice. Transformative Capacities of Intercultural Encounters”, pp 13-19, Oxford: Oxbow Books.

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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

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There’s a gap of centuries. Order of events is clear, if not causation.

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