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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

trickybiscuits posted:

:eng101: Thanks to generations of inbreeding (mostly cousin-cousin and uncle-niece marriages), Charles II of Spain was more inbred than he would have been had his parents simply been brother and sister. When I first heard this I found a copy of his family tree and worked it out. Philip and Joanna of Castile are his greatx5 grandparents, greatx4 grandparents, and greatx3 grandparents, and ALL of his great-grandparents were descended from them.

The last time any outbreeding had occurred in his family was roughly the year 1550. He was born in 1661. He had an inbreeding coefficient of 0.254. The coefficient for brother-sister matings in the absence of any more outbreeding is .25. The Spanish royal family between 1527 and 1661 had 29.4% of children die before a year and 50% die before ten years, much higher than contemporary Spanish commoners. The Spanish Hapsburgs actually form a statistically valid sample for the correlation between inbreeding and infant mortality.

:psyduck:

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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

HEY GAL posted:

lol frederick was gay as hell son, nothing wrong with that

Nahh, there's a lot wrong with him not sucking it up and having sex with a woman.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

ArchangeI posted:

More than that, he took the Army his father had painstakingly built over an entire lifetime and threw it into battle, over and over and over again, taking horrendous casualties most of the time. Granted, he won most of the time, but I wonder if there wasn't a degree of "gently caress YOU DAD I'M GONNA KILL ALL YOUR SOLDIERS and also become a European Great Power or something, whatever" involved.

Pretty sure he only really tried to start one war, the Seven Years' War was looming when they went into Saxony. After that he tried to increase power by modernizing rather than fighting wars.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

System Metternich posted:

Yeah, but it wasn't really because of his own merits. For like the longest time during the seven years' war it looked really bad for Prussia, especially after the battle of kolsdorf where Frederick almost died himself and where his army had been utterly routed. The allies could have marched on Berlin afterwards, but spent the time with internal bickering instead and didn't get to an agreement on how to proceed in time. The second stroke of luck happened in 1762 when czar Elizabeth died unexpectedly and was succeeded by Peter iii - a massive Frederick fanboy who then not only ended the war on his behalf but instead even signed an alliance treaty with Prussia instead, turning Russian troops on their former allies. This event is often titled as the “miracle of the house Brandenburg“, even though this name originally came from a letter by Frederick written after Kolsdorf in which he made fun of the inability of his enemies to use his weakness and end the war

On the other hand would a less capable state have been in a position for those mistakes and flukes to matter?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Munin posted:

I'm sure quite a few people on this board can't even say that...

I'm sure there's also people not on this board having kids who won't see an internet device for years. The spread of internet capable devices is huge and amazing but it isn't total yet.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

His visit lasted like a sentence, which is an eternity for Dickens.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

In 1919 a similar event happened in Boston, but involving molasses instead of beer. A seven meter high wave of treacle surged through the streets of the North End at over 50kmh, killing 21 and wounding over 150.

The Boston Molassacre :allears:

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

bulletsponge13 posted:

While commonly issued Russian military arms and equipment tend to be stout, they also have developed a mythology similar to the German tank bullshit. Take the AK- besides it having more to do with German small arms design than commonly noted (funny enough, not much to what it bears cosmetic semblance to, the MP/STG44) thanks to captured German arms designers, it is also not the unstoppable gun that it gets credit for. It developed it's own myths thanks to early incomplete intelligence reports and experiences in extreme places where some of it's faults turned to features.

More to do with German small arms design than commonly noted? It's got much more similarity to the Garand that goes without mention than anything German.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/05/05/rifle-paternity-test-pinning-down-the-m1-garands-influence-on-the-ak/

It's a synthesis of a lot of good ideas from the time period and definitely deserves credit for putting them in one place, and suiting them to the parent nation's manufacturing capabilities.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Agean90 posted:

I call them byzantine anyway because its a good way to differentiate out that period compared to earlier one

it triggering spergs is just a bonus

It also artificially divides Eastern Roman history based on events that didn't even happen in the ERE.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Ichabod Sexbeast posted:

e: for content:

During the Mexican-American war, a significant contingent of american irishmen straight up deserted to join the mexican army, forming what would become known as the St. Patrick's Battalion. Their final battle would be Churubusco, where after shooting the mexican general who tried to surrender, they were eventually defeated by hand-to-hand combat. Despite many of them being hung for desertion after being captured, their commander John Riley retired in Mexico.

A bunch of American immigrants deserted from the US Army during that war, a lot of them Catholics. There's a few reasons for this, one being that the US had a whole lot of prejudice towards Catholic immigrants and Mexico was a Catholic country, and one being that a huge bunch of recruits brought in for the war were Irishmen, especially those with military experience who basically were biding their time gaining experience for when the time came to fight for Irish independence, and the US recruiters straight up lied to them and told them war was imminent over the Oregon boundary dispute when the compromise had already been worked out. Add in peacetime "discipline" that spent a lot of time on the torture side of things, and there was a lot of reason to desert. The reason John Riley wasn't executed was for the same reason some soldiers weren't, which is that they deserted before a state of war existed.

Interestingly, the real elite of the US army during that period was the horse artillery. The cavalry were experienced but mainly used to frontier fighting and the infantry and foot artillery wasn't drilled nearly to the standard of the horse artillery.

Horse artillery is basically lighter guns where everyone rides, to make a much more mobile unit than men walking with horses pulling heavier guns. The main use was to be able to get to a key position for artillery quickly and start firing at important targets.

xthetenth has a new favorite as of 05:54 on Jan 5, 2016

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Funzo posted:

The Elizabethans even made laws about who could wear what. They were difficult to enforce, but you could be fined for wearing clothing above your station.
Here's a statute about ruffs, hose, and the length of swords and daggers wearable in public.
http://elizabethan.org/sumptuary/ruffs-hose-swords.html

Landsknechte weren't subject to sumptuary laws and oh boy can you tell.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

If you want a direct charge against armor, you want the one where they went in with bagsful of smoke grenades and successfully peeled the infantry off of the tanks.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

That's where the argument has a lot of grey area; a lot of those species were already on the decline. Some were pretty much on their way out before humans ever encountered them. Humans just sped it up. Of course that gets into the argument of what "natural" is. Humans are part of nature whether we like it or not and have spent a gently caress load of time adapting nature to ourselves. Agriculture and selective breeding are the big ones. What we found along the way is that preserving species is kind of a big deal because they might to out to be useful to us somehow and sometimes knocking a species that seems insignificant out completely wrecks an entire region and ends up with humans at a net loss.

Whether or not it's natural what has been pointed as as "a big loving deal like seriously huge you guys" is that human civilization is an extinction event. We're wiping out species by the dozens and hundreds constantly, some of which we just plain didn't even know about. And now they're gone. Once it's gone it's gone forever and it's seriously upsetting how the world functions in a lot of ways. It's looking more and more like we're creating a world that humans can't survive in which is...yeah. We might not be able to destroy the world but we can sure as hell change it into something we can't survive on.

There's also some serious grey area with respect to timeframe. Is it natural if a species dies out because for example, the humans are doing seasonal burns to encourage growth of plants that benefit them? Because they did an absolute ton of that in the Americas well before serious agriculture. Just in general, North American agriculture was pretty cool. There were some farms, especially at Cahokia, but in other places there was a bunch of work to shape and push the environment to naturally produce more of what was wanted. They even got bison up to New England.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Khazar-khum posted:

For a good example of 'noble savages who live in perfect harmony with the world', look no further than Easter Island/Rapa Nui.

Or Cahokia, or even the Maya falling apart, even though that's more marginal places getting stressed past the limit without a solution to make things work again.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

XMNN posted:

Yep, I regularly do "conservation" work which is actively preventing nature from reclaiming a man-made habitat (heathland).

otoh it's a p cool little habitat so nature can get hosed on this one

Yeah, it really boils down to doing nothing being another possible choice with another set of ramifications rather than some default that will leave things as they are.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Time for things people don't generally talk about in Roman history with the Crisis of the Third Century. Basically to make a long and interesting story very short, Rome started falling apart after/during a string of bad emperors/power vacuums (26 emperors accepted by the senate in 50 years! :psyduckinatoga:). It got two spin-offs, the Gallic Empire and Palmyrene Empire during this time. After a while a major Gothic invasion was beaten back at Naissus, and two of the guys there became decent emperors. First was Claudius II Gothicus who beat back the Alamanni and took Hispania back from the Gallic Empire. Then after he died of the plague, Aurelian, his cavalry commander at Naissus, took over and kicked about as much rear end as any emperor.

In five years he beat the Vandals, Visigoths, Palmyrenes, Persians and then finally ended the Gallic Empire. Suddenly the Roman Empire was a single entity with its border troops back in place. The economy was hosed (and that was pretty much permanent, a lot of the localized feudal economy all the way into the middle ages has its roots here), but the empire was back together. For this the Senate gave him the title Restitutor Orbis - Restorer of the World. So what was next after basically reassembling the Roman Empire and putting it in a position where it might rebuild?

He was heading to campaign against Persia again, suppressing a revolt in Gaul and defeating marauders in Germany on the way, when one of his secretaries lied. Aurelian had gotten a reputation for handing out severe punishments to corrupt officials or soldiers, and afraid of what he'd do, the secretary forged a document listing the names of high officials as marked for execution by Aurelian, showed it to conspirators, who fearing for their lives killed him.

That's Rome folks!

SeanBeansShako posted:

He's been the only guy so far who knew his limits when it came to power okay. He was the designated driver.

That's more the original cool dude Marcus Agrippa who could've tried shenanigans but was totally cool being bros with Augustus and building sweet buildings.

xthetenth has a new favorite as of 18:18 on Jan 23, 2016

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

I've heard at least one story of one of these guys basically responding with "Oh god please don't do that to me".

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

In fairness, about 90% of the Americas' population dying wasn't a deliberate action by the westerners. It's just that what they did to everybody else in every other instance was also horrifying. For that sort of discussion I'm a much bigger fan of 1491 and its implications though.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

While European diseases didn't help there were actually awful plagues that were wiping out the American indigenous people before Europeans got there. When the Vikings showed up the place was way more densely populated. In fact after Columbus rolled up the Europeans started believing the Americas were a promised land deliberately set up by God to give to them because of how welcoming the land was. They kept finding fruit trees neatly growing in rows, land that was perfect for farming, and so forth. It was almost as if there had been a civilization there before them that set things up for human civilization!

Only there was apparently a set of catastrophic diseases that just flat out devastated a lot of areas so badly what Europeans were dealing with was practically a Mad Max scenario. These were the few survivors of a collapse just trying to scrape by, which is part of why they seemed primitive. Trade, travel, and complex social structures had been thoroughly destroyed by population decline. There aren't records of it partly because it apparently happened terrifyingly quickly. The theory is that millions upon millions died off before Columbus rolled up. It was easy to smash their faces in because they were scrabbling just to survive and rebuild their civilization. Generally speaking Europeans encountered American civilizations in states of massive problems and serious declines.

Then the Europeans showed up and made matters worse. There are theories that the population decline in the Americas actually led to the Little Ice Age; the forests began to recover, the land became more wild, and it bound up a rather significant amount of carbon.

Those diseases were European diseases. A lot of Americans' first contact with anything European was catching smallpox. The Inka were in the middle of a civil war because of a power vacuum brought on by their ruler dying of smallpox, and got much more favorable a welcome because they seemed like a promising pawn. Similar things happened elsewhere, the Pilgrims came into a post-apocalyptic wasteland and were approached for help because regional rivalries meant that the people where they were had gotten nearly wiped out by smallpox but their enemies didn't seem to have had an epidemic. American societies weren't sitting there in a vacuum, they had trade links that served to spread disease as well.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Johnny Aztec posted:

If more autists were like Jefferson, then it'd be cool. Instead, we get bronies, and memes. We get 20-something men boys opening up cereal shops!

I'd like to see as few slavers running around as possible.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

El Estrago Bonito posted:

Before the Counter-Reformation catholic religious titles were often held or given to important people who didn't really give a gently caress about the church beyond the fact that it was a way to be powerful. Accounts of some of the popes from the medieval era are pretty much filled with accounts of heresy, hookers, massive orgies and heroic levels of alcohol abuse.

Also the guys who gave us the word nepotism.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

I can't help but think of Spartans torn between getting mad and saying the last bit is unnecessary and detracts from the burn.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

A Fancy 400 lbs posted:

If we're going for multiday deaths, Smallpox wins every time. Just in the last hundred years before it was eliminated by vaccines, it beat out war. Not one specific war, or even all wars in those 100 years, but every war in human history combined. It was around for ~10k years even before that, so war has some catching up to do.

And then there's the Americas.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

dobbymoodge posted:

PYF Historical Stultifying Conjecture.

E: for content, there have been at least three famous defenestrations in Prague.

At least two of which kicked off a major war along religious fault lines.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

The last outbreeding in his family tree was a century before his birth.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

duckmaster posted:

Germanys air defence capabilities were so much more advanced than Japans that it was never going to be a viable target. Germanys policy on hostile aircraft was to scramble fighters and intercept immediately, and if that failed to use ground based air defences to down the aircraft. They wanted any sort of information or equipment (in the form of captured pilots/aircraft) that might give them an 'edge' and were prepared to do anything to obtain it. If they hadn't been at war with the Soviet Union those air defences would have been even stronger.

Japan on the other hand, particularly in 1945, had such little aviation fuel that fighters were only scrambled to attack incoming bombing raids and almost never for recon aircraft. In the weeks leading up to the bombing of Hiroshima the USAAF flew dozens of sorties over various Japanese cities consisting of only 2 - 4 aircraft and never dropping any bombs, partly to test Japanese reactions but also to trick them into thinking these missions weren't 'hostile'. Even on the day of the first bomb being dropped air raid warnings went off in several Japanese cities but in most were simply turned off again as these aircraft weren't deemed to be a threat. Even air raid gunners didn't bother firing on them to conserve their ammunition. When Japanese intelligence officers reached Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the days after the bombings they were astounded by how many eye witnesses could correctly identify the number and type of aircraft, having assumed that it must have been a raid by a far larger number of aircraft.

The aircraft itself (the B29) was far better suited to the Pacific theatre than the Japanese one as well. Few airfields in England could accommodate a B29 being mostly WW1-era grass fields, absolutely fine for a Spitfire or a Mosquito but not much use for anything bigger. The flat ground of Guam made the construction of a paved runway relatively straightforward, it's other advantages being more favourable weather and being more or less out of range of enemy attack. That's not to say that B29s didn't operate in Europe as they did, but not in large numbers as in the Pacific.

The bomb itself was an issue as well. Although the tests in the Nevada Desert had showed that the concept worked Hiroshima was the first time the bomb would be dropped over a plane, potentially whilst being attacked, and over territory vastly different to a desert. There were such serious concerns that it would simply fail to go off that the target they were originally planning to attack was a Japanese naval base in New Guinea. The plan was that if the bomb didn't detonate it would sink into deep water and make salvage more or less impossible for the Japanese, and the USAAF would flatten the place with conventional bombs afterwards anyway.

So in a nutshell: an atomic raid against Germany in the summer of 1945 would have been possible as the Allies had complete air superiority. If the Germans hadn't been at war with the Soviet Union it would be unlikely that they would have had the same dominance in the same time period; combine that with Germanys policy of trying to shoot down anything that flew and a far more sophisticated observation network (it's far easier to spot aircraft coming over a thousand miles of land than a thousand miles of sea) and it becomes a very tricky prospect, to say the least.

The only way an atomic raid would have worked against a far stronger Germany would have been a large scale bombing raid, using B29s and specially constructed runways (which would be harassed constantly by German raids during their construction). You then run the risk of the plane carrying the bomb being shot down or crashing, either detonating the bomb in the air - and wiping out a few hundred B29s in the process - or potentially gifting an atomic bomb to the Germans. And the more raids that are undertaken the greater the risk of either of those things happening.

Wow you know so much more than the guys planning things did about what they'd do.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Plucky Brit posted:

Nah. The science behind their nuclear weapons programme was fundamentally flawed, and would never have produced a viable bomb design without going back to first principles.

New suns over Germany would've been courtesy of the US.

Hey look it's a formation!

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Plucky Brit posted:

I raised the original point because I've heard a few alt-history fans say something along the lines of: 'If the Nazis had nuclear bombs, they could've put them on V2 rockets and become invincible.' This is technically true, however not only were they were never close to a viable nuclear bomb (blamed on lack of resources), they weren't even close to a viable theoretical design.

Comparing the weight of a V2's payload and a nuke is illuminating.

Also I'm pretty sure the Germans managed to disqualify graphite as a potential neutron moderator and then lose a huge amount of heavy water to sabotage.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

A White Guy posted:

'I'd rather be lucky than good'? Yeah, the Nazis were very lucky for about 9 years (1933-1941) and then things started sliding downhill. I'd say that Nazis incredible success was due largely to being in the right place at the right time, ie having daring young commanders who choose to punch through in exactly the place the French never expected them to, or attacking the Soviets just after they got done completely gutting their command structure.

Really, WW2 in Europe is one giant comedy of errors from 1938 to 1945.

Getting going earlier and having the lead in rearmament was a big help in the early years. Having the experience from big war games helped win Poland, experience from Poland helped win France, and experience from France helped them get a long way into Russia.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Yeah. It's not often remembered but Washington and the District of Columbia in general was a swampy malarial hellhole until after the Civil War.

How did that change?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Khazar-khum posted:

Some WWI pilots claimed you could do this. The speed of the planes make it right on the edge of possible, but unlikely. It really isn't something you want to try, even as a desperation move. With no parachute, you'd be committing suicide.

By WWII the planes were far too fast to attempt this.

Basically, you don't want your plane hitting another plane midair, no matter how cool it looks in the movies.

And yet.



Worked for Robert Klingman and I swear there's another carrier pilot who did the same. Jimmy Thach actually gave instructions on how to do it to his fighter squadron before Midway because the F4F-4 traded in a lot of ammo for two more guns and they were worried fighters would run out of ammo while on CAP duty.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

System Metternich posted:

In Germany they were affectionaly known as "coffin nails"

Or tent pegs.

Also, if you want one, just buy land in Germany and wait.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Platystemon posted:

I came across this cited in the Wikipedia article on the history of the transistor. Alas, I do not have access to the full text. I’m surprised Google couldn’t find it transcribed elsewhere on the web, like in a university professor’s course pages.

Fink was no Luddite. It’s funny to think that people like that had serious doubts about the transistor in 1953. What if the transistor had been a dead end? It’s almost unimaginable today.

Silicon's likely on its last legs now, I'll be interested in what ends up supplanting it if anything. But there's been a lot of things that didn't seem sure until we did them. Just as an example, finfets and double patterning are both crazy and yet they've become doable and affordable.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

A White Guy posted:

In this way town smiths might have worked too - even if they weren't strictly paid in money, they were paid in some form of favor, be that grain, a dinner, some future help at a later date. Additionally, there's a real incentive in this proto-capitalist economy to horde real money, because you can buy anything with real money, but all your daily needs can be paid for in another way (like grain). So, basically, save the money for when poo poo gets bad, pay for everything else in favors.

Good old Gresham's law.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Lamentably that also is where a decent amount of Roman-era lead artefacts go as well.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

CoolCab posted:

It's also worth noting that the attempted coup wasn't so much "wow! Hitler's doing the holocaust better stop him to save all the undesirables" for a bunch of reasons (including the timelines not matching up at all), it was because he was losing the war...badly. When the nazis were winning the same generals were, to various degrees of enthusiasm, willing participants in the holocaust.

Likewise, Rommel not obeying the order to execute Jewish POWs was less an ideological kindness then a purely practical one: teaching the enemy you do not obey the various conventions on POW treatment is a really loving dumb and dangerous idea.

Rommel's really really not a good example for trying to prove that there were a bunch of officers who weren't neck deep in nazi stuff. His reputation kind of turns on people not asking questions like "were there Jews in North Africa other than ones in allied armies?" and "Hey isn't his reputation based in part on a book by David loving Irving?".

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4tuviz/is_it_true_that_erwin_rommel_was_kind_to_his/

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Goatman Sacks posted:

Texas has seceded from two different countries to keep slaves.

Key West has seceded three times. Once with Florida, once back to the Union, and once because a roadblock trying to interdict drugs was costing too much tourism revenue. That time they formed the Conch Republic and declared war on the US by breaking a loaf of stale Cuban bread over the head of a man in a US navy uniform. They sued for peace an hour later and asked for foreign aid.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

As well they should, because contrary to typical American history classes, that war was all about us being Canada-invading dicks.

Better than the Mexican-American War. At least in 1812 the US decided on invading Canada and actually did it rather than recruiting a really quite Catholic army all pumped up to invade Canada and dragging them south to invade fellow Catholics.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Slime posted:

Maybe they didn't seem gaudy to the romans, since they didn't have poo poo like mcdonalds to associated those colour schemes with.

People for a long time would've killed for the sort of trivially cheap bright pigments that mcdonalds' garishness is made of.

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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

El Estrago Bonito posted:

The west would still hold on in many places for much longer, in places Mexico, Idaho, Eastern Oregon, and Manchuria it lasted arguably until WWII

:allears:

I'm vaguely aware that was a thing, but if you can elaborate on Manchuria, that'd be amazing.


Wheat Loaf posted:

I also enjoy stories like that of the Donner Party or the Bone Wars. The Donner Party fascinated me for a long time. I guess it is because I have a lot of (potentially misplaced) admiration for exploration, whether they were successes like, say, Douglas Mawson or Ernest Shackleton or comparative failures like George W. DeLong or the Burke-Wills expedition.

You should read about the Polaris expedition, it's got everything where everything is incompetence, possible poisoning, strandings on ice floes (with a bonus of taciturn Germans who basically don't get any say in the historiography), and general oddity.

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