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Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS
Calling the Akagi, solely because it was the first CV I sunk in my first game (taken out by banshees out of Java), may she have better luck under Grey. I bought the game about 2 weeks in to the Allies LP.

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Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

fredleander posted:

Duds? The Mark XII torpedoes of the USN "S"-boats were supposedly more reliable than those carried by the newer boats.

In game they are very much more reliable for the first year of the game, though slightly less damaging especially compared to IJN torpedoes. The only issue with those boats is that they have short range until '43.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Grey Hunter posted:

Green is the expected safe route. Red is the route this bunch of idiots took.

Might want to turn on hex-side details, I think that side of Clark is not reachable by sea (ie, its' red instead of blue).

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Slippery42 posted:

I think this was the same AAR where the Japanese player also gamed the air combat mechanics so hard that the game's dev team actually included a nerf/fix for whatever he did in the next patch. It wasn't patched before the Allied player lost 3/4 of his carriers over the course of about two turns, though.

Apparently (heard early in the last Grey thread) the Allied player unwittingly did that earlier in the game, though it was well before the AAR took off due to the Hokkaido invasion.

shalafi4 posted:

It had something to do with a maximum number of shots that a CAP could take.

So despite having something like 1500 late war US fighters in the area they got held up by a few hundred early war japanese fighters that were left overs and something like 500 torpedo planes got through unscathed and slaughtered the carriers.

That's it exactly, there was a limit on how many passes CAP could make, so a bunch of old japanese fighters on escort were basically ablative armor and allowed the entirety of the bomber force through the massive allied CAP, without any disruption so like the whole carrier force was easily hit. The escorting fighters got absolutely destroyed but there's nothing that could be done to combat the tactic and really only presents itself in late-game play, so it wasn't noticed before.

I think AA was also somewhat anemic in the early days and there's mods that try to bring it up to more reasonable levels. I think you could also quickly run out of AA ammo during these massive attacks.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

gradenko_2000 posted:

The game tracks supplies. You need merchant ships to haul "beans, bullets and gas" across the ocean.

This is in fact one of the most important parts of the game as either side. For Japan good management of supplies (and industry) is critically important as you can easily gently caress up and cause everything to come grinding to a halt. For the Allies you need to supply all your bases that you are fighting from, plus getting enough supply to them so you can mount offensive operations when you want to where you want to (or against another player, where you find you can do so effectively).

You also need lots of supplies to increase the level of the port, airfield, or fortifications at a specific base, which is also very important for offensive and defensive operations as well as logistics. You also need to move fuel (as in fuel for ships and industry, not airplanes) around to refuel ships so you can actually do things like fight battles.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Peanut3141 posted:

Wow, how is this not over? He has over 4 times the adjusted AV with no forts! I thought the capture point was twice the AV with no forts. Can someone who plays WITP explain this?

He probably took the base days ago, but the defenders had nowhere to retreat, so now they fight till the death (or surrender) which doesn't work with the same rules. I've seen 50 to 1 ratios and still not finish off the hostile troops for that battle, but eventually the units will either be destroyed or you'll get the message that you have units surrounded at the base (after a battle) which means some of the units were destroyed/surrendered after the battle.

It's kind of wonky and sometimes takes a week or more to finish off enemy troops in a base hex even after you captured the base itself.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

gradenko_2000 posted:

What would you even do with the PoW and Repulse, assuming you got them out? Start some poo poo in the Java Sea before it turns into a Betty-patrolled lake? Sail down to Oz and link up with US BBs for central Pacific shore bombardment?

It seems like they wouldn't be able to do much operating out of Colombo with all that LBA out of Indochina.

The PoW is fairly fast, fast enough to keep up with CVs I believe. I don't know what kind of AA upgrades it gets but just being a fast BB is useful in that it can be a magnet for planes that would otherwise hit your CV's. Sending Force Z in to beat up invasion fleets in the DEI or around Port Moresby is also doable.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Phi230 posted:

It would take way too long. It would cause a big speed bump IMO.

IMO Grey should bomb the poo poo out of Singapore from the air and hit it hard with a BB + CA task force. Try and annihilate their supply and cause fatigue + disruption. All while bombarding from land. Even with all that effort it may take weeks

The coastal defense guns are really really good, so bombarding it is a bad plan. It's also a strait, which I think makes CD guns work even more effectively. The AI one time ran a 20+ ship cargo convoy through the straight for some reason, and it lost all of them from CD fire.

Grey needs to bring another 2k AV or so to take it easily.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Gort posted:

So how do you actually replicate how easily Singapore fell to Japan in this game? It seems like for all the bonuses Japan gets in the early game regarding amphibious assaults, carrier cooperation and Pearl Harbour, Singapore remains the unbeatable fortress it completely failed to be in real life.

Singapore's fate (in terms of how quickly it falls) is dictated by how much supplies you got there and what fort levels it has, as well as if you get reinforcements there. At the start of the game there's a bunch of troop convoys that start off heading for Singapore (and Rangoon), but generally those are turned away by the Allies or actively interdicted by an IJN player. Most IJN players focus their efforts on taking several decent airstrips in the DEI for basing torpedo bombers and fighters, which makes it really hard to ship anything without having CV-provided air cover.

The AI won't redirect it's troops away, and I think on some/most difficulty levels gets a supply bonus, so it's going to be a harder nut to crack than normal. It's not really unbeatable, it's about getting enough troops there. Force concentration in the ground game is hugely important.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Saros posted:

Probably an attack by only a fraction of the units in all likelyhood. The AV value is for all the troops in the hex and the adjusted AV is the real value.

Yup, only a partial attack for whatever reason. Maybe the forts, hex modifier, and experience/leadership of Grey's troops will make the difference, but I'd guess he's going to lose Hankow. A 13:1 raw AV disadvantage is a lot.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS
Congratulations Grey! No matter how tired you get, keep reminding yourself that eventually it gets easier.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Decoy Badger posted:

Is Japanese ASW even worth bothering with before 1944?

In the form of planes, very much yes. Trained ASW squadrons would do very well at keeping subs damaged and spotted which will reduce their effectiveness.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Mikl posted:

I'm sure this question's been answered already, but is it possible in this game to win the war as the Japanese versus the AI or a competent Allied player? Like for example forcing the Allies into surrender? Or is it simply a matter of "how hard will you lose" once the game has started?

You auto-win in certain years if you get above a certain ratio of VP's, so it's definitely possible and people do it against the AI.

Against a human, I don't think I've seen one actually happen, usually the Allies quit well before that point. It's very, very hard to run up the score that much against the Allies and also hold out long enough to hit the year marks for the ratio (I think in '42 it's 4:1, '43 it's 3:1, '44 it's 2:1) before starting to get over-run by masses of ships. And then the subs start carrying actual torpedoes, and your ability to ship supplies starts to run out and you start running out of supplies in general.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Crazycryodude posted:

What's this? 40 new posts since I checked last night? :getin:

Edit: H... how did two massive carrier fleets get within basically visual range of each other without noticing? I can't wait to read this universe's version of Shattered Sword.

In game all movement (night and then day) happens before the air phases happen. A fleet can "react" closer to another fleet after this by moving one hex or sometimes two, but in one day two converging fleets can go from 16 hexes apart to 0-2 real easily. For most CV's your scouting range is at best 7 or 8 hexes so it's easy to trip over the enemy in open waters. It's also really easy to move past each other and end up out of attack range the next day.

Grey Hunter posted:

Yeah, at 88% fire, she's gone - thats well beyond any real chance of damage control saving her - without that fire, she would have been okay, but the bombs must have hit the fuel/ammo stores.

RIP.

Yup. My poor ship. Did anyone claim the Taiho? Is there a list of free CV's or CA's?

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Oh well. I guess I'll take the Ryuho since I know it will appear soon and hasn't been claimed. Maybe my pixel-aircraft will avenge the Akagi, but probably not.

The Yorktown isn't in too bad of shape, with only "fires" instead of "heavy fires", and it's only been hit by bombs so far. Grey may have to hit it again, although it should be slow-ish though. The Lexington escaped unscathed, while the Enterprise may have been hit by a bomb and a torpedo (but no "heavy damage" so torpedo hit may be fog of war). Maybe Grey has some subs in the area who can try to hit the CV's as they escape. At the very least he should expect the AI to go that route again.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Jobbo_Fett posted:

It stays as the Yorktown II, afaik

Also

:rip: Lord Pants

Yeah but you can rename it I believe. At least some (or all) of the Essex-class (Hornet, Wasp, Lexington?, Yorktown) II's can be renamed to whatever, though you may have to actually do it before they arrive.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Yeah but manually renaming it isn't a thing we'll come across with the allies seeing as Grey's playing the Japanese

Well now I feel stupid.

I would have guessed 2 USN carriers survived (Enterprise and Lexington), but the plane numbers on the attacks seem very low, as did the attacks the whole battle. Attrition is a major bitch during carrier battles though, on both sides. Operational losses are attrition, destroyed on field are planes that went down with the ship.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

pthighs posted:

A ship can always move one hex, even if out of fuel.

Note that it'll take system damage as it does this though, and enough systems damage will eventually kill the ship, especially if it has any major flotation damage.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Sad King Billy posted:

I accidentally bought WITP instead of WITP:AE. Is there a huge difference between the two?

Sadly, yes. I've heard AE is a huge step up from WITP with the expansion of the map and dropping from 60x60 hexes to 40x40.

Fuzzy McDoom posted:

Would it be safe to assume that oiler is toast? Since tankers and oilers are such good targets I've been wondering for a while if my imagination is correct and basically any bomb or shell hit bigger than a dartgun results in fiery death.

If it had fuel, yes it's toast. They don't become floating hulks that can be repaired, they sink due to fires/system damage.

wedgekree posted:

What would the carrier likely be? A CV or a CVL? And in any case, which one? Assuming it's not Enterprise. Could it be Ranger or something else?

It's a CV since it has more than 30 planes attacking and no CVL's or CVE's the Allies carry more than 30ish planes. 22 Wildcats actually seems high for one carrier though, I think at this point the fighter squadrons on US carriers is still maybe 36, which eventually goes up to 40 and then to 44 later on. Ranger never arrives in theater IIRC (or maybe late '45). I think Lexington also survived unhurt, while Enterprise may have gotten damaged (1 bomb, 1 torp). Enterprise actually fits in the Sydney shipyards while Lexington is too big, so maybe they went there and then Lexington came back.

If you have the combat logs or watch the combat replay it can sometimes give you the squadron name of the planes attacking ships. Japan helpfully are named after the ship and then a number, Allies are like "VB-3" which would be Enterprise's dive bomber squadron unless the squadron was moved, which I don't think the AI will actually do.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Killing more carriers means that it'll take longer for the allies to fight back and/or gain air superiority.

Basically, you're delaying the inevitable.


Edit: Those CLAAs are pretty rare too, iirc

The North Carolina is also one of the few fast BB's the Allies get early on, so the Allies are left with even fewer decent escorts that have good AA and can keep up with CV's.


Only problem I see is that the BB's might have already shot all their big gun ammo off. It's hard to tell because I think the gun ammo section of the top fleet is just the Mutsu. the CA's at least should be able to hit the Lexington (and ideally sink).

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Bold Robot posted:

Awesome. No Enterprise sighted means it probably sank overnight, right?

The 91 planes destroyed on field means it sank yesterday (plus whatever was on the NC in terms of scout planes). Planes destroyed on a carrier, or scout planes on a CA/BB/etc, are counted that way, and that number seems to always be accurate and not FoW. It's also why it's highly unlikely the Lexington sank today, since there was no planes destroyed on field.

Given the damage though I wouldn't be shocked if it sinks in the next couple of days. Sometimes heavy fires / heavy damage isn't quite enough to put ships down though, especially Allied. It's got something like 10-15 hexes minimum before it can make a good friendly port (Brisbane?), so chances are good it succumbs to it's wounds, especially if the torpedo hit caused a fuel explosion or magazine explosion.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Woodchip posted:

Someone on the AI team read Shattered Sword. I can't do much against six CVs in the Solomons in March '42. The AI really wants PM and may get it.

Japanese AI? PM is harder and more costly to defend than it might seem, because the IJA can march across the mountain range and stay in supply or seems to be able to and supply routes to PM are hard to defend in general against the AI. As for the carriers the AI has different tactics it will eventually choose but March is still early. If you are playing the harder scenarios (or Ironman itself) it's pretty rough unless you spend a lot of early PP and shipping capacity sending things to the places you absolutely want to keep. I think the few times I planned to keep PM I spent quite a lot of effort shipping things in and arranging for cover for those ops (monthly or less frequent even), so much so that I couldn't really do much else given I was at the end of a very long logistics line and you also want to keep getting AA upgrades for your ships as you can get them and upgrading/training your naval air groups as well.

My best advice is maximizing your Catalina search groups in areas where you have to know if they've got CV's coming at you. I generally don't do much with search arcs I just make an effort to use every bit of air support within a group of bases to run a search group out of every one of them.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

nothing to seehere posted:

... Does that mean you can inflate your VP counts by taking valuable provinces and building huge ports/airfields you'll never use?

For the Allies who get buckets of supply, yes. Japan is supply-limited over the life of the game and building bases consumes a ton supply. Although generally bases that are easy to take/hold for your side don't have a big multiplier (think a base of 1-5, compared to something like 50 or 100). I think Noumea for the allies is one that actually has a good base multiplier.

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Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Reuben Sandwich posted:

Additionally, a Tinian B-29 mechanic that I talked to years ago said their goal was 2 sorties a week if I remember correctly. He ranted about the Wright cyclone but I don't remember much of the details.

In game they have pretty high service ratings (I think earlier models are a 4, later drop to 3), so 2 is generally pretty good. The earliest B-29's (B-29-11 IIRC) started arriving in Aden in 11/43 if I remember correctly, but it's a relative trickle and it's mid-44 before you can really start bombing in any meaningful way. Even then it's super helpful to be closer than the Marianas, ideally within full bomb load range of B-24's. Taking Taiwan after the Marianas gives you lots of options.

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